Dune: Part Two.

[Blumf]

Trailer up:

[greenman]

Characters look a bit more individual but still gives the feeling of more of a generic action film to me.

[Mister Six]

RISE OF THE TWINK!

I was completely apathetic about this until I watched that trailer, but I actually feel some hope and interest rising in me now. The problem is that after the last film I tried to read the Dune novels and found them to be largely dogshit past the first one (maybe the first two, at a push), with Herbert's crappy characterisation being a major problem.

So if this film is mostly new stuff filling in and building up the characters (which it'll have to be, since Chiani is barely a character and Feyd was totally missing from the last film), then that definitely works for me. The second half of the original novel feels quite choppy anyway, like stuff was hacked out to get two books into one volume (which I think it was), so a more liberal interpretation might work here.

It also gives me hope that Villeneuve might actually pull off a decent Dune Messiah and make a decent fist of a trilogy.

[greenman]

The first film I thought was a bit too comfortable falling into the Nolanish mold of sci fi action, throw in plenty of plotting with lots of exposition and things exploding, not so much focus on building up characters or the more interesting ideas in the book.

The second film really I think is going to need to move beyond that a bit as it doesnt have as much of that kind of conventional sci fi plotting to it.

[Vodkafone]

The first film I thought was a bit too comfortable falling into the Nolanish mold of sci fi action, throw in plenty of plotting with lots of exposition and things exploding, not so much focus on building up characters or the more interesting ideas in the book.

The second film really I think is going to need to move beyond that a bit as it doesnt have as much of that kind of conventional sci fi plotting to it.

I thought the first film was good, and managed to build a sense of background tension and threat. I hope the second one releases that tension and goes full in on the unbridled holy war madness and trippy mystic wackiness - that's what the book does. It'll be interesting to see if he pulls it off.

[Glebe]

Looking forward to it of course, I've been reading the book for awhile now (I've been in a distracted mood for some time!).

Poster:

[elliszeroed]

Long live the fighters?

[Clownbaby]

Dune isn't really my thing but I went to see it anyway. I thought the Lynch one was really funny, and Kyle MacLachlan is a million times more watchable to me than Timothee Chalamet, who has the charisma of a toilet roll tube. He was alright in this though I suppose.

I'll probably see D2ne when it comes out I reckon

[Dex Sawash]

Chalamet was great as Henry the Twinkth

[Glebe]

New trailer:

Christopher Walken looking very casual for an emperor! Also Deadline seem to have confirmed that those rumours that they're gonna round this out as a trilogy by adapting Dune Messiah are true:

Warner Bros on Thursday released a new trailer for Dune: Part Two, Denis Villeneuve's second pic in a planned three-film saga based on Frank Herbert's classic sci-fi novel.

I'm still reading Dune! Meanwhile some good news at last on that TV spin-off:

'Dune: The Sisterhood' Adds Olivia Williams and Jodhi May in Casting Shakeup.

[Blumf]

Also Deadline seem to have confirmed that those rumours that they're gonna round this out as a trilogy by adapting Dune Messiah are true:

Very good news, as you need Messiah to make the point, Dune is basically setup. Wonder if they'll mange to squeeze Children out too.

...wait, that didn't come out right.

[Glebe]

Wonder if they'll mange to squeeze Children out too.

...wait, that didn't come out right.

Heh! I've been struggling to get through the book Dune for ages, it's not that I'm not enjoying it, it's just that I've been finding trying to relax and read difficult for some time now. :(

Think I've only seen Olivia Williams in Rushmore and The Sixth Sense. Used to get her confused with Rebecca Hall. Shirley Henderson sadly no longer attached to the Sisterhood.

[samadriel]

I struggled with Dune until I listened to an audiobook (on a series of cassettes, this was the mid-'90s), that was a really compelling experience, I think because it keeps going at a steady pace, so I didn't get bogged down by the duller bits. Audible charge ridiculous sums for their Dune audiobook, but they also offer a lot of free books to new customers, so maybe you could have a go at that?

[Mister Six]

Very good news, as you need Messiah to make the point, Dune is basically setup. Wonder if they'll mange to squeeze Children out too.

...wait, that didn't come out right.

If they're going to do Children (yeah, that didn't sound right either) then they also need to do God Emperor, and good luck convincing Warners to commission that.

The "good" news is that Children and God Emperor are so bloated and boring that you could probably whittle each book down to a single film, if you were loose with the adaptation. Which you'd have to be, because the books are horribly tedious.

[Glebe]

I struggled with Dune until I listened to an audiobook (on a series of cassettes, this was the mid-'90s), that was a really compelling experience, I think because it keeps going at a steady pace, so I didn't get bogged down by the duller bits. Audible charge ridiculous sums for their Dune audiobook, but they also offer a lot of free books to new customers, so maybe you could have a go at that?

Thanks for the tip samadriel. Gonna try ploughing on with the book for the mo!

[Easy_To_Assemble]

I'm actually fairly enthusiastic about this, for the same reason I enjoyed the other one: it was a decent visual feast that was long enough to feel like something I could settle into in the cinema. I know the first one got mixed reviews for being too ponderous, but that pacing was exactly what I liked about it. Trailer and the FX look decent on this, so I think it'll hit the same notes.

Never read the books. Not sure if I ever will. And it's nice not to be riddled with expectations around that.

[Glebe]

So there was talk of this being delayed 'til next year because of the writer's strike (the movie is basically finished I think but all the US chat shows being off the air is affecting promotional stuff), but apparently it's not only not being delayed but will get an extended IMAX run:

Dune 2 Update All But Confirms It'll Destroy The First Movie's $400 Million Box Office.

[kitsofan34]

Sorry dorks, it's delayed till start of summer 2024.

[Mister Six]

More incredible Zaslav thinking.

[13 schoolyards]

To be fair, these movies rely a lot on having the cast available to do promotional work. If they're on strike, the only person left for red carpets and interviews is the director and good luck getting anyone to pay attention to him.

Studios aren't going to throw their big blockbusters out in front of audiences without the full force of months of promotion, and while the strike is going on that's not an option

[Minami Minegishi]

Maybe this could be the perfect time to test the theory that promotion isn't that important, especially as it is now 50% of blockbusters budget.

However, a) I'm not sure Dune performed well enough for that test, and b) it seems that our docile public required the social media whip-up to bother going to see Oppenheimer and Barbie so probably do need to be told what to watch.

[Glebe]

I'll definitely get around to finishing the book before seeing it now!

[Mister Six]

To be fair, these movies rely a lot on having the cast available to do promotional work. If they're on strike, the only person left for red carpets and interviews is the director and good luck getting anyone to pay attention to him.

Studios aren't going to throw their big blockbusters out in front of audiences without the full force of months of promotion, and while the strike is going on that's not an option

Hm, that's a good point. Dammit!

[Dex Sawash]

You got DUNC'd on

[13 schoolyards]

Maybe this could be the perfect time to test the theory that promotion isn't that important, especially as it is now 50% of blockbusters budget.

There was some Hollywood industry newsletter I saw that was claiming that some of the recent big screen releases were markedly underperforming because of the lack of promotion. How true that is, I don't know - the strike was timed pretty well on that front, happening when pretty much all the Barbenheimer publicity had been done and there haven't been any big star-driven movies after that.

Publicity costs have definitely gotten way out of hand, but I'm guessing getting actors to turn up to premieres and do interviews with talk shows and local press is probably the cheapest and most cost-effective part of the PR budget, especially when the other options are things like "building a real life Barbie Dream House".

[lipsink]

I loved Dune Part One at the cinema cos it was such an immersive epic experience. Rewatching it at home it obviously loses a lot and I could see its flaws more clearly. You don't really get to know any of the key characters and it's just all a bit of a cold unemotional watch.

Once it actually gets into the desert and Paul joins the Fremens I felt like I had an emotional attachment to the characters a bit more. Before that everything was being set up and it probably felt a bit rushed too. I've not seen any TV series adaptations but if this film had been split over a season it probably would've given the characters more room to breathe. It felt a little bit like a pilot of a TV show but maybe Part Two is really where it gets going.

[Ignatius_S]

Maybe this could be the perfect time to test the theory that promotion isn't that important, especially as it is now 50% of blockbusters budget.

However, a) I'm not sure Dune performed well enough for that test, and b) it seems that our docile public required the social media whip-up to bother going to see Oppenheimer and Barbie so probably do need to be told what to watch.

No - there's a long-standing rule of thumb that you need to double the production budget to get a rough idea of the amount of gross revenue needed to break even. Although this is to take account of marketing costs, distribution costs are also a major factor in this. Additionally, it also factors in things like studios will get a smaller cut of revenue from overseas cinemas than domestic ones.

Another rule of thumb is that marketing and distribution costs will cost an amount that's approximately 50% of the production budget.

Both are very rough guides and recently, it's generally accepted that films with a $100 million budget have been spending another $35 million on marketing specifically.

As for testing the theory that promotion isn't important, that has been tested previously and as a theory, has been found wanting. There's been considerable industry and academic research indicating how important that promotion - or rather, the right promotion is - to the success of a film.

Re: Point B - no, that's completely off the mark.

[Ignatius_S]

To be fair, these movies rely a lot on having the cast available to do promotional work. If they're on strike, the only person left for red carpets and interviews is the director and good luck getting anyone to pay attention to him.

Studios aren't going to throw their big blockbusters out in front of audiences without the full force of months of promotion, and while the strike is going on that's not an option.

Absolutely.

With the later point about Barbie, it's a film based on a huge IP and for a good size of the target audience, this is a big thing. The stars were able to promote the film before the strikes and in addition to that, stories about the stars and the film - the one about Ryan Gosling singing I'm Just Ken and the stories now being run / being a fantastic example - were a great and clearly successful example of promotion that utilised the cast without them having to break the strike.

[Minami Minegishi]

No - there's a long-standing rule of thumb that you need to double the production budget to get a rough idea of the amount of gross revenue needed to break even. Although this is to take account of marketing costs, distribution costs are also a major factor in this. Additionally, it also factors in things like studios will get a smaller cut of revenue from overseas cinemas than domestic ones.

Another rule of thumb is that marketing and distribution costs will cost an amount that's approximately 50% of the production budget.

Both are very rough guides and recently, it's generally accepted that films with a $100 million budget have been spending another $35 million on marketing specifically.

As for testing the theory that promotion isn't important, that has been tested previously and as a theory, has been found wanting. There's been considerable industry and academic research indicating how important that promotion - or rather, the right promotion is - to the success of a film.

Re: Point B - no, that's completely off the mark.

Yes, it does seem that hugely expensive promotion is required for people to engage with a film. 'Docile' might be a bit rough, but as someone who doesn't read reviews or watch trailers I guess I find it rather sad that people do seem to require expensive promotion to consider watching a film.

I worked at Screen Yorkshire for 8-years and budgets for promotion were wildly varying and seldomly correlated to 'success'.

[Ignatius_S]

I loved Dune Part One at the cinema cos it was such an immersive epic experience. Rewatching it at home it obviously loses a lot and I could see its flaws more clearly. You don't really get to know any of the key characters and it's just all a bit of a cold unemotional watch.

Once it actually gets into the desert and Paul joins the Fremens I felt like I had an emotional attachment to the characters a bit more. Before that everything was being set up and it probably felt a bit rushed too. I've not seen any TV series adaptations but if this film had been split over a season it probably would've given the characters more room to breathe. It felt a little bit like a pilot of a TV show but maybe Part Two is really where it gets going.

The ones from about 20 years ago were very enjoyable, from what I remember. I and the friends that I watched it with had fairly low expectations, IIRC and we were more than pleasantly surprised.

I remember Ian McNeice was excellent as Baron Harkonnen and he looked like he had great fun. The actor playing Gurney Halleck was abysmal and one of the worst performances any of us have seen; that's not exaggerating. I have a feeling he was better in the second series - a low bar, admittedly - and was okayish.