Yet Another Whiny Marvel Thread

[dissolute ocelot]

Daily Variety has a long article about how screwed up Marvel is lately. Basically

1. Jonathan Majors' continuing legal problems mean plans to make his Kang the villain for the next few years are desperately being rolled back - Kang could be recast or replaced by Dr Doom. I though Majors was good in the otherwise mediocre Ant-Man: Quantumania (which badly underperformed at the box office), but obviously if he has done bad things, his acting chops count for nothing.

2. The Blade film is apparently in trouble, with lots of rewrites, potential budget cuts, etc. Including "One person familiar with the script permutations says the story at one point morphed into a narrative led by women and filled with life lessons. Blade was relegated to the fourth lead". This seemed something that should be fun, based on the generally enjoyable Wesley Snipes films and the presence of Mahershala Ali.

3. The Marvels is apparently also in trouble, its release much delayed and expectations muted.

4. She-Hulk apparently costs $25 million an episode, which is a lot even by the standards of big US TV. While there are few complaints about quality, the production was a mess, and it also has Majors problems.

5. Lots of general industrial unhappiness with exec Victoria Alonso getting fired for dubious reasons, CGI workers unionising as a result of mistreatment (14 hour days and stuff), a tendency to fix badly-written scripts in expensive post-production, etc, etc, etc.

I've been rewatching the highpoints of the Marvel Cinematic Universe lately thanks to a free Disney Plus sub, and there certainly were some entertaining films, but also, boy, a lot of filler. Anyone have any thoughts? Looking forward to anything? Are there any Marvel films you'd actually like to see?

[Famous Mortimer]

Your point 2 sounds like someone who wanted a fruity headline and twisted a few comments to fit - even Marvel wouldn't be stupid enough to make a Blade film that sounded like that. I'm not saying they make the best decisions every time, but that just sounds silly.

The trailer for "The Marvels" doesn't seem like much, but...eh. No-one knows. I want Monica Rambeau to be a successful character so we eventually get a "Nextwave" movie, though.

Also not sure I trust 4. I've no idea why that one show is a great deal more expensive than the other Marvel shows, so I'm guessing it isn't. I'm not sure I have the passion to read a Variety article, but 2-4 all being about them bloody women is...perhaps nothing, perhaps something.

[Old Nehamkin]

Starting to worry that this franchise might fizzle out before it even reaches 50 films.

[Blumf]

They still making these?

[Funcrusher]

Love to see all the capeshit flopping this year. Long may it continue.

[Mister Six]

How do you fuck up a Blade film? How do you fuck up a Blade film starring Mahershala Ali? Even if the stuff about it turning into an ensemble thing sounds absurd (but then again, Blade: Trinity...), its preproduction problems are long-documented and Variety is a legitimate and respectable publication. It's not some random blog.

Also, the story is written by a woman, or at least someone called "Tatiana".

Also not sure I trust 4. I've no idea why that one show is a great deal more expensive than the other Marvel shows

Probably because its lead is a fully CGI creation most of the time (and you have turns by fully CGI Hulk and Abomination too), whereas Falcon & Winter Soldier could just have Sam and Bucky walking around some woods talking for half an episode before a big action setpiece. The article also says it was just the one episode that cost $25 mil, presumably the first one, which had to be rejigged in post-production right at the last minute due to scripting blunders.

Anyway, Marvel - I gave up after Doctor Strange 2, only popping in to watch Guardians 3, which felt tired and bloated but was at least pretty self-contained. It all just feels like work now, and not even rewarding work since every film is just an advert for a Disney+ show and each show an advert for a film. Marvels actually looks pretty fun, but to get the most out of it you need to have seen Captain Marvel, WandaVision and Ms Marvel. And maybe Secret War? And it'll just be setting up Ms Marvel 2 or something.

[phantom_power]

I really like Ms Marvel so am vaguely interested in The Marvels. I am not massively excited about the future of Marvel films at the moment but if the plan starts to take shape I might get drawn in again. It took ages to get to Infinity War

[13 schoolyards]

Honestly, the Blade movie with Blade as the fourth lead doesn't even sound all that implausible - just make it about a family / group of young people attacked by vampires, oh shit how are we going to get out of this, holy crap it's Blade! Who is a mysterious mentor type who is so badass there's no tension when he fights the vamps so they keep him off camera a lot of the time while the rest of the cast struggle to figure out where to put the stake, etc etc.

I mean, it'd be shit, but Disney have constantly struggled with the more edgy / violent Marvel characters (ie those mostly rubbish two seasons of The Punisher), so it shouldn't be surprising that they tried to find a more family friendly take on a murder machine slaughtering blood-sucking freaks.

It'd be great if someone could put together a collection of all those dozens of articles and stories from a few years back telling us that audiences would never ever get bored of superheroes and that the Marvel model of movie making would dominate Hollywood, and by extension all pop culture, forever.

[Famous Mortimer]

It'd be great if someone could put together a collection of all those dozens of articles and stories from a few years back telling us that audiences would never ever get bored of superheroes and that the Marvel model of movie making would dominate Hollywood, and by extension all pop culture, forever.

Or those articles that had stuff like "Tom Cruise confirmed for Lightning Lad movie!" and similarly bananas ideas that never came close to coming to fruition.

[bgmnts]

I mean, it'd be shit, but Disney have constantly struggled with the more edgy / violent Marvel characters (ie those mostly rubbish two seasons of The Punisher), so it shouldn't be surprising that they tried to find a more family friendly take on a murder machine slaughtering blood-sucking freaks.

See, I found the Deadpool films and the Logan film probably the best of all the endless colours and shapes of Marvel slop.

[Mister Six]

Quibble: Logan and the Deadpools were Fox, not Marvel, and the Punisher TV show was Marvel Television, not the movie studio, working with ABC and another production company (and it was good, actually).

[bgmnts]

It's all Disney to me now.

[phantom_power]

It'd be great if someone could put together a collection of all those dozens of articles and stories from a few years back telling us that audiences would never ever get bored of superheroes and that the Marvel model of movie making would dominate Hollywood, and by extension all pop culture, forever.

Did anyone actually ever say that? I am pretty sure most people thought the bubble would burst eventually, like all trends in film

[madhair60]

Love to see all the capeshit flopping this year. Long may it continue.

☝️ this.

[Goldentony]

She-Hulk apparently costs $25 million an episode

I cant put the electric radiator on at the same time as the oven or telly because of the money it'll cost me

[Midas]

I cant put the electric radiator on at the same time as the oven or telly because of the money it'll cost me

sell your tv

[bgmnts]

I cant put the electric radiator on at the same time as the oven or telly because of the money it'll cost me

Yeah but watching She-Hulk is worth it innit?

[Goldentony]

can any business heads lay out to me the issue with me going to Marvel and saying listen siphon me £20K a year from the She Hulk dogshit? I dont see how they'd notice or care that 20 thousand shitters have gone missing given the circumstance, can anyone remember what She Hulk even is or looks like in 2023? is it the cunt who turns into the ants?

[C_Larence]

Switching from Kang to Doom now would be madness. Doom needs to be set up with at least as much forethought as they gave Thanos. To just suddenly throw him into the mix along with The Fantastic 4 and X-Men, with Secret Wars as their first major story, would be a huge mistake.

Marvel has recast characters multiple times in the past, but now they have a villain who's USP is that he has countless multiversal variations and somehow they're hesitant? It makes no sense.

[checkoutgirl]

Starting to worry that this franchise might fizzle out before it even reaches 50 films.

That's the thing, it's amazing it lasted that long. 11 years of building, well, maybe only the last 5 or 6 years were building, but still. It's quite a run. Now they're struggling. Manchester City are the best now.

[checkoutgirl]

. It all just feels like work now

Yeah I watched Guardians 3 twice just to be sure I couldn't give a shit. Admittedly I was drunk the first time but that's not the point.

[Goldentony]

To just suddenly throw him into the mix along with The Fantastic 4 and X-Men, with Secret Wars as their first major story, would be a huge mistake.

I really enjoy this history of totally fucking up Fantastic 4 every time they try and that they seem completely incapable of doing it any other way whether on purpose or not.

[C_Larence]

I really enjoy this history of totally fucking up Fantastic 4 every time they try and that they seem completely incapable of doing it any other way whether on purpose or not.

The Incredibles nailed it, perhaps Marvel need to get Brad Bird in.

[Mister Six]

Yeah I watched Guardians 3 twice just to be sure I couldn't give a shit. Admittedly I was drunk the first time but that's not the point.

I loved the D&D film on a rewatch so a bit of me wonders if I'd appreciate Guardians 3 more if I watched it again. But even though I had problems with D&D I always thought it was fun and breezy, whereas my overriding impression of Guardians 3 is that it was sour and dour and leaden, and I don't feel any strong urge to go through it again.

[elliszeroed]

Bigger than Thanos, or Kang? Annihilus or Galactus, both Fantastic Four villains. But I never thought of them as being interesting enough to be front and centre of a huge cinematic universe.

Personally, I was up for Endgame, but afterwards lost interest, it wasn't that new characters didn't interest me, I love Moon Knight, thought Kate Bishop was cool, really liked Ms Marvel- this should have been the MCU's Buffy, rather than pushed into films- but didn't have the energy/ endurance, to wait another ten years or so for a pay off.

Eh, The Marvels comes out in a week or so, and so far all I have seen is an ad on a bus.

[stonkers]

Marvel has recast characters multiple times in the past, but now they have a villain who's USP is that he has countless multiversal variations and somehow they're hesitant? It makes no sense.

A lot of people have made this point and yeah they can recast if push comes to shove, but the gimmick they've established with Kang is that it's the same actor every time so it would be a bit jarring.

Whether they recast or not, Kang has always struck me as a good idea in theory but very difficult to actually pull off in practice. Thousands of Kangs sounds good as this ominous looming threat, but the Kangs they've shown so far have all been defeated quite easily, and it's really not clear what all the Kangs are trying to acheive.

Kang!

[curiousoranges]

It was never an issue when they recast Blofeld time and time again.

[Mister Six]

Kang seems like a much easier character to recast than Bruce Banner or Rhodey were. Just come up with some technobabble about time warps changing his appearance or even don't explain it at all.

I understand them wanting to hold on to Majors if possible because he's a talented guy, but if the alternative is just randomly shelving Kang and rushing in Dr Doom then just recast, surely.

Hey, remember when Chiwetel Ejiofor's Baron Mordo was supposed to be the big post-Thanos baddie and then they didn't even make him the main villain in Doctor Strange 2? What's with Marvel hiring talented black British men then doing bugger all with them (cf. Idris Elba)?

[13 schoolyards]

Did anyone actually ever say that? I am pretty sure most people thought the bubble would burst eventually, like all trends in film

There was an awful lot of "sure, bubbles burst, but superheroes can be anything! Superhero comedies! Superhero family dramas! Superhero horror movies! They'll never die!" stories out there, especially around Avengers: Endgame.

I think the real thinking behind at least some of those stories was possibly not so much "this bubble will never burst" as it was "we can never even suggest that this bubble will burst, as it's grown so big and gone on so long that it's crowded out almost all other genres of blockbuster so if it does burst, there's no longer anything left that can replace it"

It's funny how quickly people have gone from sneering at Warner / DC for not being able to get superheroes right to thinking that being crap at them may no longer be a bad thing (though making a billion dollars from Barbie probably helps there). With The Marvels and Aquaman 2 both looking extremely missable, the next phase of superhero movies might involve a quest to find people who give a shit

(and then one of the upcoming ones will turn out to be halfway decent and "Superheroes Are Back!" will be everywhere)

[Leo2112]