Being misinterpreted, frame of mind whilst posting on here, and... online arrogance

[gazzyk1ns]

...for want of a more concise thread title...

I think the mistake I make a lot of the time is posting on here in exactly the same way I'd talk ot my close friends. As I was saying to someone in a PM recently, I come on here occasionally to have a bit of an intellectual debate, but mostly to unwind, have a bit of fun and banter. As a result I will post "Wow he should have willied her, looks like she was desperate!" or something similar in the Big Brother thread... or make a comment which could be interpreted as being sexist.

I don't know whether I'm glad of my openness or not really. I sometimes overreact to a a response, I know that much - if I expect my comments to be taken with a pinch of salt then I suppose I should take the comments of others in the same way.

But then sometimes, people make the most arrogant and superior assumptions, don't they? TJ a few minutes ago said he hated my attitude towards women. He has no idea about my attitude towards women! Similarly, Yearly said that [paraphrasing...] I was clueless when it came to knowing about the differences between men and women. He doesn't know that!

Sheepy said recently that "...all people here have to go on is your posts..." and he's obviously correct - but I wish people would get some kind of a sense of context into their heads. Trying to fathom my real-life, honest attitudes to women from reading my posts about Sex And The City and BIg Brother? I am commenting on television programmes, on an internet message board, in my spare time!

Like I said, I think it's a mistake to just speak on here as you would to close friends... I'm going to stop it, it's annoying, more than anything else, to have people on here think you're some kind of gary-boy rapist.

It's also annoying thinking that I'm wanting to stop posting "whatever I feel like", as I've already said, I do it as a "leisure activity", and censoring yourself takes effort... I'll probably just refrain from posting in a lot of cases. Please don't take that as one of those annoying "boo hoo I'm all upset and victimised, I'm leaving" posts which occur from time to time here, I'm not going in that direction at all.

Anyway, the last bit of that poor thread title reads "...online arrogance". A lot of people here would class that as a poster saying "wuurgh I shag loads of birds" or "Yeah I earn £42K a year, can't decide whether to buy an M3 or Boxster-S though...", and I might agree in most cases - but I'm constantly coming across a more subtle kind here, and it's far more annoying.

It takes many different forms, and I think I could type lengthily about it... but I often make that mistake and end up diluting my point. It all boils down to people on here assuming they're more intelligent, or more "experienced" in life than another poster and having little respect for him/her.

I can hear the likes of Sheep and Jutl* screaming at their screens now, saying they have a lot of respect for 99% of fellow posters... but I really think you don't. At least, that's how it comes across - and as you said Sheepy, that's apparently the only thing people here can judge you by.

Sure, posters will word things politely, begin sentences gingerly, but the overall tone of the post will come across as "I appreciate your input on this great site which we all love... but here's the score, I know becuase I've had this argument before and it was decided I was right.". References to obscure publications/commentators will be casually slipped in, with the purpose of pointing out how well-read they are on the situation, and...

Gah, see what I mean about diluting my point? I bet I had a fair amount of your attention before that last paragraph, but then I lost it, didn't I? It's very hard for me to describe, I think it might be one of those things you can either see pretty much instantly, or you find it impossible.

Yeah the other day I said "birds" with reference to women, yeah I say things like "The idiot should have shagged her!" or whatever in the BB thread, but... there's never any arrogance or disrespect to anyone there. They're just throwaway comments, like we'd all make in the pub. Conversely, a lot of the time, I get the impression that we're all sitting at a big table having a debate... and then a certain few posters will listen to me, then look at each other with a knowing smirk and whisper "Who is going to put the lad right this time? Ach it's a hassle, isn't it, he always makes such a fuss about it... I'll do it, you can have the next go... we know he'll learn to be as well-balanced as us one day..."

I know there's hardly ever (possibly never) and malice meant, but it really does come across as arrogant. Surprisingly, other times, the same posters will PM me after responding to something I've said in a thread and say "er, no offence, hope it didn't seem..." and I'll actually laugh - I'd not have taken the slightest offence at the passage in question in a million years!

See the ironic thing, for me, is that these posters say what they say becuase they think they're extremely... well, because they think they've "got things right"
with regards to posting on the net. But take Yearly's* comment about me earlier today - saying [again, paraphrasing...] that I was clueless when it came to the differences between boys and girls... how presumptuous, arrogant, and plain rude is that? Very. And yet he gets away with it. I don't mean that he should be censored, or feel the need to apologise, or anything similar - I mean he gets away with it because it works, he's been arrogant and rude but he's made me look like a clueless, angry little brat. It's frustrating, especially when I get accused of having no respect for all females - because I meantioned the word "bird" in a clearly jovial post. Similarly, TJ said he found my attitude toward women offensive - he doesn't know what my attitude to women is. I threw an insult at him but it was specifically to do with the tone of his posts, which obviously I know a lot about (well, I can have an informed opinion about it, if you see what I mean...). That's frustrating too.

*I've mentioned Jutl, Sheepy, and Yearly by name up there, I've talked to them all off-board a bit, I'm sure they won't mind me mentioning/quoting them for the sake of an interesting discussion - I don't want anyone to get the impression it was a rant directed personally at any of them. It's not a thread I intended for saying "I hate X because of..." or anything similar, I just mentioned some names to better illustrate my point. Also, don't get the impression I think anyone owes me an apology.

All right, open discussion time, comment on any of that... hehe and don't think I'm going insane or anything, I've just got a day off work and am knocking about in a house for a while after a tiring week, my arms ache like a bitch. Er, I mean person of no specific gender. Well, not a transsexual... erm, not that there's anything wrong with that...er...

:winky wanky wonky:

Excuse any typos and the rambling nature, I wrote it all in one go as a "spur of the moment" type-thing.

[Rootin' Tootin' Raspberry]

you dude simmer i told you simmer

[Rootin' Tootin' Raspberry]

this aint gonna go nowhere

[Rootin' Tootin' Raspberry]

yo almost yearly do that thing you do dude

[gazzyk1ns]

Haha, oh dear...

[Rootin' Tootin' Raspberry]

man you dont wanna start

[hencole]

...for want of a more concise thread title...

I think the mistake I make a lot of the time is posting on here in exactly the same way I'd talk ot my close friends.

But then sometimes, people make the most arrogant and superior assumptions, don't they? TJ a few minutes ago said he hated my attitude towards women. He has no idea about my attitude towards women! Similarly, Yearly said that [paraphrasing...] I was clueless when it came to knowing about the differences between men and women. He doesn't know that!

So either your not being honest with your friends or with us! Not a dig just wondering.

I'm always up for a bit of arrogant arguing, makes me feel smug.

[jutl]

Sure, posters will word things politely, begin sentences gingerly, but the overall tone of the post will come across as "I appreciate your input on this great site which we all love... but here's the score, I know becuase I've had this argument before and it was decided I was right.". References to obscure publications/commentators will be casually slipped in, with the purpose of pointing out how well-read they are on the situation, and...

Heheh

Can I ask a couple of questions, please, Gaz?

(a) Do you draw a distinction between people pointing out facts smugly and people stating their opinions smugly?

(b) Do you think you'd find that kind of tone as offensive if you agreed with the opinions or facts being expressed?

[gazzyk1ns]

a).....tricky... really not sure. Probably "yes", to state a fact smugly makes a person sound possibly a bit rude but to state an opinion smugly makes someone look rude, arrogant, ignorant, etc.You know my views regarding religion and I would assert them as "fact", but I wouldn't want to sound smug, htere's nothing to be smug about. Religion is probably a sole exception, too.

b) No, I wouldn't, depending on the subject,  I might "love" the post... but it's not right. I hope I wouldn't post anything backing up the smugness... erm... that sounds wanky but you know what I mean.

[jutl]

a).....tricky... really not sure. Probably "yes", to state a fact smugly makes a person sound possibly a bit rude but to state an opinion smugly makes someone look rude, arrogant, ignorant, etc.You know my views regarding religion and I would assert them as "fact", but I wouldn't want to sound smug, htere's nothing to be smug about. Religion is probably a sole exception, too.

Yes - We have done the religion one before, and yes - your point was that you were stating facts. I was trying to introduce a fag-paper between yourself and certainty, and I failed, I think. That was frustrating, I agree. Usually though, it's pretty easy to tell if someone is stating something they are sure is confirmable (and maybe citing a reference or two) or if someone is just saying something they believe with conviction, but have no real 'proof' for. My personal reaction to either is to correct someone if they are factually wrong, or counter-argue if I disagree. I like to do this, and in some ways I like it all the more if the person expresses themselves arrogantly... I don't associate with your (as it seems to me) cringe at these kinds of posts, but then I wouldn't because I guess I make them a lot...

b) No, I wouldn't, depending on the subject,  I might "love" the post... but it's not right. I hope I wouldn't post anything backing up the smugness... erm... that sounds wanky but you know what I mean.

Yeah - it's a cringe, isn't it? Revulsion at what you perceive to be a dick-sucking party... I must admit I don't tend to feel that. as I said above - If I disagree, then I'll argue, and if I don't then it just doesn't annoy me.

[Purple Tentacle]

(Purple Tentacle does MORE weird dancing, hoping that gazzyk1ns will snap and throw a tray at him)

[Timmay]

I sympathise Gaz, I really do. I myself have been called brainless, misogynistic, and a Sun reader. All in the same sentence too. Pretty much unfounded really, if you actually knew me. And I haven't read the Sun for about 8 years - about as long as I haven't needed page 3 to get my wanks over. Since I first got the internet now I think about. Correlation? Perhaps.

Anyway, part of the problem here is that some groups regard as coming to CaB as an afternoon in the library or lecture theatre, to debate things in a high-brow fashion - and so type like that, and expect others to. Others though regard CaB as an afternoon in the pub with your mates, maybe talking about the same high-brow subjects, but with pub-like banter. This is how people misunderstand what other people actually mean in the way they say things. But then you also get other people on here who just can't understand that other people aren't like them, and might actually hold a different opinion to them. That can't be helped though, unfortunately.

We all know the cliche of Daily Mail readers on CaB. And people who wear Burberry. And drive lowered Novas with neons (tossers). We all like to look down our noses at them, and feel superior in our cosy corner of the internet. I'm as guilty as this as the next man, but that doesn't make it right. Stereotypes are horrible things. I think we've both (Gaz and I) been branded and labeled in the past, as CaB's resident Stella drinkers, resident trance-music clubbers, resident lapdancing club attendees, etc etc. And this also is part of the problem; people have their own image of posters on here, tuck them away into their stereotype, and are unable to see past that. So much so that it begins to colour what they're actually reading by that person, rather than reading every post on it's individual merits.

[Jemble Fred]

I'm not a gary-boy rapist either, but I can't help thinking that if you're this perturbed about the general posters on here, I'd just have a bit of time off from CaB altogether – surely it's crazy to invest quite so much time and emotion on a forum? I might be wrong, but it's not as if we all have to share a big colourful house, is it? Or is it?

[hencole]

I think we've both (Gaz and I) been branded and labeled in the past, as CaB's resident Stella drinkers, resident trance-music clubbers, resident lapdancing club attendees, etc etc

Why don't people like Stella drinkers? It's my beer of choice and i've never beaten my wife up. Maybe it's because my girlfriends don't last long enough before becoming a bloody pulp. I've always seen it as a beer for the civillised drinker rather than the larger lout.

I've never thought of either of you as any of the above, and two of those apply to me to a certain extent, well psy-trance anywyay. People are just jealous that you can afford the premium beer prices and the whores to match.

[sproggy]

...Yeah the other day I said "birds" with reference to women, yeah I say things like "The idiot should have shagged her!" or whatever in the BB thread, but... there's never any arrogance or disrespect to anyone there. They're just throwaway comments, like we'd all make in the pub..."[/i]

Perhaps the fact that you see them as 'throwaway comments' is influencing peoples opinion of you?

...But take Yearly's* comment about me earlier today - saying [again, paraphrasing...] that I was clueless when it came to the differences between boys and girls... how presumptuous, arrogant, and plain rude is that? Very. And yet he gets away with it...

Sounds like AY was expressing an opinion rather than stating a fact, based upon the style and content of your posts (effectively sheepys theory)


Forgive me for saying but you do sound a little paranoid about what people think of you and shouldn't let it bother you so much.  Without wanting to sound arrogant, I could make another assumption and say you are a very sensitive little soul deep down, am I right?

[Pinball]

man you dont wanna start

Fuck off troll bitch. Go and mate with Bernard Manning's Y-Fronts or something.

[Almost Yearly]

The word "smug" has recently been elevated to the status of cliché, I notice, like "random" before it. We should all stop using it before Vernon Kaye starts. I already don't know what it means any more. I think I'm quite smug in some areas and - what's the opposite; humble? - in others. I think we all have the right to feel quite secure and settled, if not complacent, in our understanding of certain panels of life's rich tapestry (=smug?) and the duty to admit weaknesses or indeed great gaps in our understanding of others.

IMSO = In My Smug Opinion. I feel another spinoff thread coming on: What are you smug about?


And at this point I would like to mention by far the most annoying thing about our GD poster of the year 2003, jutl. You are just too damn reasonable sir. For christ's sake man, say "p**i" or tell someone they're talking shit, rather than saying, "I'm confused..." or somesuch. Jeez. Even your slagging of Kill Bill was pretty much the well-read and clinical critique of a genuinely disappointed fan. You're Mister Smug of Smug Lane, Upper Smugger, you.


We have crossed swords* before and no doubt will again, gazzyk1ns, and so long as it isn't always about the same bloody thing all the time I look forward to it. Sort the women thing out, mate, for your own good. My opinion on your opinion is based on what seems like hundreds of your posts. Try having sex with men. You never know.
*Not in the group sex sense, of course. During a dp once, someone blurted out "Don't cross the beams!". Scene stopper :-)

I might be wrong, but it's not as if we all have to share a big colourful house, is it? Or is it?

Yes, it is just that, IMSO. A blue one. Just because our bodies aren't here, what's the difference? Fewer arguments about the phone bill and who nicked whose butter, I s'pose, but that's about it.


Damn, too long. I for one wouldn't read it properly.

[Rootin' Tootin' Raspberry]

hey man i aint no troll, always somethin to say

[mwude]

Always saying something isn't necessarily the same as always having something to say.

[hencole]

man you dont wanna start

Fuck off troll bitch. Go and mate with Bernard Manning's Y-Fronts or something.

Hmm, man who says 'easy dudes' every post
Man who says 'Bush war criminal' every single post

Keep it up lads. ; )

[Rootin' Tootin' Raspberry]

you just formin opinions on what i post here, online arrogance dude

[Almost Yearly]

Thankyou Glasshoppah. What else has he got to go on.


Uncle Z thought RTR was me. Cheers Uncle, see you tomorrow. < Sharpens bike chain >

[gazzyk1ns]

Forgive me for saying but you do sound a little paranoid about what people think of you and shouldn't let it bother you so much.  Without wanting to sound arrogant, I could make another assumption and say you are a very sensitive little soul deep down, am I right?

I'm not so much "worried" about what people think of me as I am interested, as that's the best way to learn how to behave... it's baffling that I can easily maintain a large circle of very close friends, and make a few new ones now and again, by behaving a certain way in real life... but then offend people here, and cause them to assume I have deep "women" troubles by acting exactly the same!

I suppose that's what it is, that's why I care about why people like AY make assumptions like that, it's really confusing. Seriously AY, what do you mean, "sort the women thing out"? I've never implied I've had/am having some kind of relationship problem, have I? I wouldn't be silly enough to state something like how many partners/sexual encounters I've had in the past X months but it's "healthy", and none of them seem to think I lack(ed) respect for them.

I feel really small and self-conscious having to "reassure" you like that, no doubt it will invite replies of "What are you trying to prove!?" or "Oooh well done, you had sex, have a biscuit", but when someone who claims to know something about your personality says "Seriously, sort the women thing out.." it's a bit... I dunno, strage.

Your opinion of my attitude to women seems to stem from that rant I had about Sex and The City, the attitude the characters have, and how it is fashionable to behave like that in real life... which as I said at the time, was mainly letting off steam about a mate's dippy girlfriend.

[Cerys]

you just formin opinions on what i post here, online arrogance dude

Touché!  Although one has to admit that it's difficult to take you seriously, seeing as you tend to post one-line observations which don't exactly say much.  Apart from that one, obviously.  Um....

[gazzyk1ns]

Hehe I'm convinced it's a regular poster's alternate identity Cerys, I wasn't sure initially but now I think it must be.

[The Boston Crab]

Always saying something isn't necessarily the same as always having something to say.

That's funny.

you just formin opinions on what i post here, online arrogance dude

But so's that.

[Cerys]

Hehe I'm convinced it's a regular poster's alternate identity Cerys, I wasn't sure initially but now I think it must be.

I suspect you may be right, but I'm not going to assume anything.

(D'you see what I did there...?)

[Almost Yearly]

It was mwude I was orignially calling Glasshoppah, but the world turned too fast and I got left behind.


Of course RTR is a regular. My fiver's on smoker.

[Timmay]

no way dude rtr virgin poster dont jump gun man

[hencole]

Which verbwhore is Rootin?

Could it be multi account  regular AY?
Perhaps it's a moderator trying to bring a sense of calm to GD?
Perhaps it's Jutls less elequent alto ego?
What happened to Huzzie?