Hifi/organ question

[pancreas]

Dear Hifi enthusiasts,

I have a Mac Mini running my organ software which takes midi input from a set of keyboards and converts it into sounds using its sample sets. Quite impressive in that it's not impossible to be playing 1000 pipes all at once, which are all piled on top of each other on the fly. (It needs huge amounts of memory—32GB for some organs.) Then that goes through the DAC in the MacMini and comes out of a headphone socket which I plug into the back of a traditional amplifier.

The issue is that I'm not getting great amplification atm. Trying to turn up any further than it is already—whether on amp or in software—results in quite a lot of distortion. That could be for a number of reasons but I think the issue is that the DAC and whatever amplification happening inside the MacMini is inadequate. Possibly running it over a 3.5mm to RCA cables is not great, but I'm led to believe that's not likely the main issue.

I think the solution may lie in an external DAC/pre-amp to connect over USB to the Mac. I don't want to spend loads on it.

I wonder if I would get away with a headphone amplifier like this:

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/ifi-audio-zen-can-desktop-headphone-amplifier

Any thoughts?

[Sebastian Cobb]

Easiest way to take the dac out the equation is to see how it runs with a single channel source.

3.5mm connectors are technically poor yet perfectly adequate, unless it's broken it won't be the problem.

Wouldn't even spend the amount you're suggesting for a 2 channel out (if that's what you want). Beringer and focusrite make stuff like that much cheaper.

[Spudgun]

Yeah, I'd be using something with a proper line out rather than a headphone out. (They look the same, but they're not.) A Focusrite USB audio interface would be my personal recommendation, but you'd probably get away with something cheaper.

[Ferris]

Yeah you definitely need a pre-amp in that setup, and it'd work better if you were using something more robust than 3.5mm output.

From experience, I've been impressed with the stuff Behringer make and a quick search suggests this MIC500USB might be your ticket, but I can't work out the input options.

Anyway, decent shout for ~80 quid though suspect every other CaBber is better versed on this than me.

[PlanktonSideburns]

Or this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Price-Square-AUDIO-INTERFACE-UM2/dp/B00EK1OTZC

Laptop, USB into this thing, then phono lead into hifi

[touchingcloth]

Have you thought about stealing one from a leper?

[Ferris]

Or this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Price-Square-AUDIO-INTERFACE-UM2/dp/B00EK1OTZC

Laptop, USB into this thing, then phono lead into hifi

I've got one of these but don't remember the last time used it. Quality bit of gear-wanker kit. The one I suggested uses tubes which makes it a higher grade of wankery than the solid-state effort though.

Agree on the output - USB in then RCA/phono out is the way to go. Leave the 3.5mm for the bin.

[Agent Dunham]

Or this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Price-Square-AUDIO-INTERFACE-UM2/dp/B00EK1OTZC

Laptop, USB into this thing, then phono lead into hifi

Agree on the output - USB in then RCA/phono out is the way to go. Leave the 3.5mm for the bin.

These. But with two phono leads (L & R). (Organ will sound much better in stereo with a bit of churchy reverb).

[touchingcloth]

Yeah you definitely need a pre-amp in that setup, and it'd work better if you were using something more robust than 3.5mm output.

From experience, I've been impressed with the stuff Behringer make and a quick search suggests this MIC500USB might be your ticket, but I can't work out the input options.

Anyway, decent shout for ~80 quid though suspect every other CaBber is better versed on this than me.

Love that they've put "audiophile" into the description of the product. I imagine the Ferrari website list their cars with things like "petrolhead", "boy racer", and "bald, small penis".

[PlanktonSideburns]

Yea the valvy one if you want some extra wanker points for sure

[pancreas]

Or this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Price-Square-AUDIO-INTERFACE-UM2/dp/B00EK1OTZC

Laptop, USB into this thing, then phono lead into hifi

What? This is for recording stuff into a computer, no? I want stuff from the computer going out.

[pancreas]

Yeah you definitely need a pre-amp in that setup, and it'd work better if you were using something more robust than 3.5mm output.

From experience, I've been impressed with the stuff Behringer make and a quick search suggests this MIC500USB might be your ticket, but I can't work out the input options.

Anyway, decent shout for ~80 quid though suspect every other CaBber is better versed on this than me.

This is just controlled via USB; it has no DAC in it.

[pancreas]

Yeah, I'd be using something with a proper line out rather than a headphone out. (They look the same, but they're not.) A Focusrite USB audio interface would be my personal recommendation, but you'd probably get away with something cheaper.

This would work, I think.

https://focusrite.com/products/scarlett-solo

[Blumf]

What? This is for recording stuff into a computer, no? I want stuff from the computer going out.

I think he might have meant this: https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0484
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UCA202-U-Control-low-latency-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI

I've been using one for a while, taking the S/PDIF out and feeding it to an AV amp. If Behringer are up to their rep, the RCAs should be decent.

[PlanktonSideburns]

What? This is for recording stuff into a computer, no? I want stuff from the computer going out.

Does both, ignore the stuff on the front

You could get stuff without, but this will insure you get decent latency

[PlanktonSideburns]

This would work, I think.

https://focusrite.com/products/scarlett-solo

They're decent, my brhringer box will do exactly the same thing for your uses cheaper mind

[greencalx]

panc, your diagnosis sounds reasonable but I was wondering if it's possible to capture the output of the software as a WAV or FLAC or something, and you can then check the distortion is absent in the signal that's generated at the outset (e.g., by playing the file on different hardware). Would be a shame to shell out for an external DAC and discover that the problem lies elsewhere.

Since you're using a MIDI input, you might be better off looking in the 'hi-fi' rather than 'studio' space. I've had good experience with products recommended by What Hi-Fi, although I don't have the most discerning pair of ears. (Distortion drives me nuts though, so I feel your pain.) They seem to like this budget model https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/ifi-zen-dac-v2 but seem to be touting it more for headphones than speaker use. Looks like you just plug it into USB from which it draws power and gives you a pair of phonos to send to your amp. Could that work?

[pancreas]

panc, your diagnosis sounds reasonable but I was wondering if it's possible to capture the output of the software as a WAV or FLAC or something, and you can

This is sensible. I should do this first. But I think it was better before I upgraded to the MacMini. Previously there was a massive great prehistoric MacPro in there. Which did seem to have a better sound capacity.

Somehow missed the ifi product you looked at. Pretty sure that would do the job. Perhaps since it's going into an integrated amp with a volume control I might be better off with a straight DAC.

E.g. this on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156082414192

BTW thank you for actually reading my OP carefully.

[Agent Dunham]

What? This is for recording stuff into a computer, no? I want stuff from the computer going out.

Most audio interfaces offer both audio input and output from your system. You never know when it might come in handy. You can't go wrong with the Focusrite, btw, although a 2i2 might have more potential for the future. The Solo is suffice for now.

[touchingcloth]

Yeah, if you could they'd have called it Focusrong.

[Agent Dunham]

This is sensible. I should do this first. But I think it was better before I upgraded to the MacMini. Previously there was a massive great prehistoric MacPro in there. Which did seem to have a better sound capacity.

Somehow missed the ifi product you looked at. Pretty sure that would do the job. Perhaps since it's going into an integrated amp with a volume control I might be better off with a straight DAC.

E.g. this on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156082414192

BTW thank you for actually reading my OP carefully.

A headphone out isn't really ideal for plugging into a hifi, hence the suggestions for an audio interface, as they have the correct output signal (line out). The Arcam has line out as well so no problem.

[greencalx]

Yeah, the Arcam looks like a good bet, although I remain a little bit worried that the issue is not the DAC but that you're overloading the Mac Mini's processor / memory. Capturing the audio digitally (in real time, not by a file export) is probably the only way to know for sure.

That said, no doubt Apple used the cheapest possible DAC in the Mini, so anything external will probably be an improvement.

[mojo filters]

If you just want a foolproof output, the very solid Peavey USB-P takes a digital input and generates a pair of balanced stereo outputs, which can be summed to mono. Radial also make nice USB DI boxes with more features plus better converters and transformers.

Both are designed principally for live sound hence you are paying for the sturdy build, but compared with studio interfaces they are much simpler and easier for quick plug and play use. The Peavey is literally a box with one USB input and a pair of XLR outputs, not even a volume control, but unlike the studio kit this is designed to just do what the OP wanted.

[Funcrusher]

So I'm now picturing Pancreas creating HS Arts threads while playing Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor on the organ and wearing a cape like Vincent Price.