Mate Punched Girl Quandary

[The Boston Crab]

My mate in China just emailed me to say he once punched his girlfriend/soon-to-be wife when he was pissed. I think he just wanted to get it off his chest. He basically told me that although nothing else had happened in the past nine months, he is worried that the switch may be beyond his control. Once that line has been crossed, it's been crossed. There's not really such a thing as therapy/counselling/behavioural management in China so they're on their own.

I'll be going back there for a holiday next month and I feel I'm in an awkward position. The easiest thing for me would be to simply avoid him but 'doing nothing' is useless. I'd prefer to talk it through with him, try to get him to identify the triggers and try to find some changes, e.g. give up booze. I also want to talk to her, try to understand her feeling and why she even stayed with him, ask her if she feels scared it might happen again. That's a massive one to broach, though. I think that whole 'not my place' thing is a cop-out, though. Sometimes people just need help.

If this thread is a bit heavy, I won't mind if you delete it, Neil. Just fishing for thoughts.

[mini goatbix]

I'm sorry about your friend, I had a similar ish experience with a friend of mine that hopefully helps...

When I met my friend Sara, she told me that her boyfriend, Fred, used to beat her up and that she was still with him. I was wary, I'd always heard that a violent boyfriend will stay that way, however Sara and Fred have been together for many years now, have a kid and there is no trace of the violence from the start of the relationship or even the intimidation that was still around a few years later.

Sara and Fred never had any therapy or help from outside so it is possible for you freinds to deal with it, but difficult and I think it needs to be faced as a difficult problem, not something for him to ignore. It's not my experience, so I can only go on observing Sara and Fred, but their strength seems to be that they talk about everything, including the original violence. Although Fred is totally forgiven, he is never allowed to forget and never lets himself forget. He is far more aware of his behaviour than most people because he believes he needs to be in order to control it. He is also good at listening to criticism from Sara, which he never could before, and that's important because Sara can tell him when he's starting to act agressive or unreasonable. Of course he doesn't always agree, he hasn't become a henpecked husband, but if she says she is concerned, then he thinks about it in case she may be right.

Talking, with everyone being honest about how they feel, is definitely the key. That and them loving each other enough to change, even if it's really difficult to do.

[vx]

try to understand her feeling and why she even stayed with him

something along the lines of "I get passport now?"

[The Widow of Brid]

I'd prefer to talk it through with him, try to get him to identify the triggers and try to find some changes, e.g. give up booze.

That sounds like the most you can do, in your position, and not a bad idea. Especially if he's already - genuinely - put some thought into managing his behaviour.

I'm really not sure what advice to offer regarding his girlfriend. Were they in the UK I'd urge you to make sure that she knew that, while it was her call, if it did change from a drunken anomaly and become a pattern of abusive behaviour she'd have the emotional and practical support of yourself and others. Most importantly reassuring her that she'd be believed, even if she'd been coerced into lying during the abuse. 
As it is, I'm not really sure what you can do as I don't really know what the cultural mores are over there. You reassuring her that everyone has her back is going to ring a bit hollow if anyone she turns to locally is going to respond with "D'uh. That's what husbands do?"
I dunno. Apply what you can. Shit. What a horrible situation.

I'm genuinely really upset for you, and her, and him. And a bit stirred up myself. And yet still, about 30% of my brain has spent this whole post trying to think of a way to crowbar in a reference to that Martin/Mao post.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Some girls have it coming...

[confettiinmyhair]

I don't understand the quandary of this situation TBC. Is it because you are so against domestic violence of any kind that you feel morally obligated to potentially terminate your friendship?

The talking to both parties individually thing seems to be a risky move. Because it might appear that you are sticking your oar in where you should'nt be. For instance the bloke might think you have no business talking to the bird, since it's a matter between them, and the bird might not want anyone to know about what happened on a very dark day of their relationship, and perhaps might even feel uncomfortable that you have found out about this incident.

[sproggy]

Probably old fashioned and non-PC but blokes who hit women are cunts.

One encouraging thing about Crabbie's mate is that he recognises it as a problem so could maybe respond to some anger management counselling.

[Hank_Kingsley]

I saw a girl and a boy have a fight at school today! It was pretty brutal actually. The girl had spat on the boy and got all up in his grill, he pushed her, she pushed back and then he threw her down the stairs.

The thing about fights is they're over so quickly. I was some distance away and by the time I was over it had all fizzled out.

Still, yes, blokes who hit women are cunts but then again women who get up all in people's grills and spit on people and ting may get smacked down.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It's quite entertaining seeing someone with the view 'oh I'm a woman he can't hit me' have that delusion physically disproven (from the safe reality-barrier of the internet)

*Shoulders does not approve of male to female body punching.

[sproggy]

By 'hit' I mean 'punch' of course.

There are ways of reacting to feline physical violence without crossing the wife/girfriend battering line, a wrist lock is usually quite effective and you have the bonus of grabbing a bit of tit into the bargain should you feel so inclined.

Or you can kick her in the cunt for half a fucking hour and still depart with your chivalry intact.

[mook]

If not your shoe.

[boxofslice]

Sometimes there's nothing more enjoyable....

[wherearethespoons]

This is how you deal with them;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4R5wZs8cxI

[Jemble Fred]

Yes, every good misogynist always keeps a grapefruit handy.

Sometimes there's nothing more enjoyable....

She's just about to collapse with narcolepsy and he's reaching for a cushion to catch her fall.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Poor girl, that Mae Clarke. Google image search would suggest this grapefruit scene is all she's famous for.

[Custard]

Some girls have it coming...

Bloody ell. Where, why, when?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Lintmonster specialises in 'sorting out' lassie-bashers.

[The Boston Crab]

Been offline a few days, thanks for the replies.

To answer a few questions: My quandary is simply that I'll visit China next month, may well see him and I'm unsure how to deal with the information. I think what he's done is unforgivable but she's obviously decided otherwise and despite vx's amusing suggestion, they plan to marry and live in China for good.

I could tell him I don't want to speak to him any more but that kind of deliberate inaction does nothing but let me feel self-righteous. His were the actions of a cunt but, like it or not, I'm now involved so I'm going to try to do something useful, at least. The fact that he's recognised the gravity of his mistake and that nothing else has happened gives me some understanding of why she's willing to work with him to make amends. Whether or not I agree with her decision (I don't) is not the issue. He's not asked me to forgive him, he's not asked me to stay friends with him, he's asked for help.

Mini G and Widow confirmed my instincts so I'll talk to them as honestly as possible to try to prevent it from ever happening again. I'm not actually concerned that it will become a pattern of violence as she told him she'll inform her family next time. Whether retribution came from them, from the police, or from cellmates, that's effectively a death sentence for a foreigner in China.

Anyway, thanks, all.

[rudi]

I know it's famous n that but... just... who thought this was a good idea??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f20Oz9Yr_So

[switchbitch]

There are ways of reacting to feline physical violence without crossing the wife/girfriend battering line, a wrist lock is usually quite effective and you have the bonus of grabbing a bit of tit into the bargain should you feel so inclined.

Or you can kick her in the cunt for half a fucking hour and still depart with your chivalry intact.

Your cat gets a bit aggy so you slap your wife around???

[ziggy starbucks]

Recent scientific evidence suggests toxoplasmosis cysts lodged in the human brain can increase a man's tendency towards violence. There is a well known positive correlation between exposure to cats and domestic violence

[kngen]

I know it's famous n that but... just... who thought this was a good idea??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f20Oz9Yr_So

oh come on - King and Goffin knew exactly what they were doing with that song. and Spector's slightly off-kilter, queasy arrangement suggests that he didn't play it as straight as many have suggested, either. It's a work of sublime subversive genius.

[dr_christian_troy]

I showed this to a (male) friend of mine, and his response was: 'Well, she did push him.'

Hmm. I'm just glad I didn't encourage his candour by showing him this NSFW clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6eFWPLyDA4

[wherearethespoons]

Recent scientific evidence suggests toxoplasmosis cysts lodged in the human brain can increase a man's tendency towards violence. There is a well known positive correlation between exposure to cats and domestic violence

Used in defence of one of Dunbar's clients in the sadly overlooked BBC series Outlaws.

[ColonelVolestrangler]

Bloody ell. Where, why, when?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/jersey_shore_thug_is_nyc_gym_teacher_xQvp3WSFQk4TQhqwQjmJTL

[rudi]

oh come on - King and Goffin knew exactly what they were doing with that song. and Spector's slightly off-kilter, queasy arrangement suggests that he didn't play it as straight as many have suggested, either. It's a work of sublime subversive genius.

I think I wasn't being clear. I know what they were doing writing it, I'm just baffled how it ever got released as it was. As you say, it's subversive genius, but nuance has always been somewhat difficult to explain during amplified pop music (I've yet to find the right occasion to play it while DJing for money, for instance). You're certainly right that that shouldn't be the concern of the writers/performers/producer.

[kngen]

I think I wasn't being clear. I know what they were doing writing it, I'm just baffled how it ever got released as it was. As you say, it's subversive genius, but nuance has always been somewhat difficult to explain during amplified pop music (I've yet to find the right occasion to play it while DJing for money, for instance). You're certainly right that that shouldn't be the concern of the writers/performers/producer.

ah fair enough.

[Groodle]

I've been in a similar situation with a friend. I was a witness to some of his abuse had to make statements against him to the police. We're still friends.

It's good that your friend felt he could tell you, whatever his motivations for confessing. If he really is sorry for his actions and is willing to make an effort to change his behaviour, it might help him to have your support.

[daimoniac]

it was inevitable... sorry

[switchbitch]

No it wasn't.