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Elon Musk Hæte-2: Electric Poogaloo

Started by touchingcloth, January 13, 2023, 04:45:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

touchingcloth

Strange game. The only winning move is to boost every antisemite going.

Blue Jam

tbf they did misrepresent the X user experience. They neglected to mention all the pornbots.

Paul Calf

Quote from: Blue Jam on November 18, 2023, 01:56:36 PMtbf they did misrepresent the X user experience. They neglected to mention all the pornbots.

Totally this. I get at least one or two new pornbot followers every day. The first thing I do when I log in is scrape 'em off.

Blue Jam

Quote from: Paul Calf on November 18, 2023, 02:03:16 PMTotally this. I get at least one or two new pornbot followers every day. The first thing I do when I log in is scrape 'em off.

I did this until I protected my tweets, just logged in and saw I have 20+ new follower requests, all from accounts which look like pornbots.

Worse than that is clicking on a hashtag and seeing loads of porn posts. Misuse of hashtags used to be something that would get a tweet deleted but Musk doesn't give a fuck. I'm just glad I don't have to use Twitter for work, surely all the porn is causing problems for those who do?

touchingcloth

What's a pornbot, and how can I meet one?


Mr Banlon


Blue Jam

Quote from: touchingcloth on November 18, 2023, 03:46:32 PMWhat's a pornbot, and how can I meet one?



Was anyone else disappointed that Elon's rocket wasn't more phallic?

seepage

^ like when I got excited about the Hitachi factory near Paddington, but they just make trains there apparently :(

phantom_power

I've just got to the bit in the podcast about his belief in longtermism, or whatever it is called. It seems like a great way for rich sociopathic cunts to pretend to be altruistic and that their egotistical and planet-destroying behaviour is really for future generations of humans

touchingcloth

Quote from: phantom_power on November 18, 2023, 06:21:45 PMI've just got to the bit in the podcast about his belief in longtermism, or whatever it is called. It seems like a great way for rich sociopathic cunts to pretend to be altruistic and that their egotistical and planet-destroying behaviour is really for future generations of humans

Quote from: touchingcloth on November 06, 2023, 11:02:52 AMTranshumanists and effective altruists and their like are really just fascists in disguise. Elon Musk doesn't care about saving the environment or future humans, he cares about Elon Musk.

There's not much of a neater demonstration of his thinking than him saying "fuck earth".

dissolute ocelot

Quote from: Urinal Cake on November 17, 2023, 08:56:10 PMThe main aim for a bike frame is to be as light as possible but as strong\stiff as possible hence all this 'materials research'. Doesn't make sense for a truck.
Regular cars are designed not to be as strong as possible so they crumple to protect the people inside and even pedestrians. But if you drive a Tesla you should be willing to sacrifice your own flesh for the sake of the car. Just sluice the driver out of the compartment and sell it to somebody new.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on November 18, 2023, 11:18:09 PMRegular cars are designed not to be as strong as possible so they crumple to protect the people inside and even pedestrians.


I think that ship has sailed in the US market, Ford and GM don't even really make sedan/hatchbacks, and despite pretty much every truck being terrible f for pedestrians the modern front-end blindspot is worse than it is on commercial vehicles.



This is a problem for uk/Europe too as suvs and crossovers occupy more road space.


Sonny_Jim

Quote from: Paul Calf on November 18, 2023, 02:03:16 PMThe first thing I do when I log in is scrape 'em off.
I bet you do, you dirty etc etc

Paul Calf


touchingcloth


Blue Jam

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on November 18, 2023, 11:18:09 PMRegular cars are designed not to be as strong as possible so they crumple to protect the people inside and even pedestrians. But if you drive a Tesla you should be willing to sacrifice your own flesh for the sake of the car. Just sluice the driver out of the compartment and sell it to somebody new.


...but what if you crash your Cybertruck and die within a year of purchase?

Blumf

Quote from: Blue Jam on November 19, 2023, 12:20:50 PM...but what if you crash your Cybertruck and die within a year of purchase?

They hook you up to an in-truck life glug and keep you going


Mister Six

#2838
Sorry, bit of a late reply to this one. Covid made trying to engage properly with this subject a bit of a challenge.

Quote from: touchingcloth on November 13, 2023, 05:12:06 PMWe're probably reaching a point where "the transhumanists" is failing because we're talking about different groups of people under that same label.

Yeah, but the thing is the group you're talking about aren't transhumanists! Which is my point, really. You need a different label for them.

Quote from: touchingcloth on November 13, 2023, 05:12:06 PMOn the bolded bit, I think having eugenicist concerns there is valid. Given that Musk owns Neuralink and is on the record talking about how they will allow for "superhuman cognition", and "solve" obestity, depression, schizophrenia, and autism.

Again, though, that's not transhumanist philosophy. Musk isn't a transhumanist. He's a creepy techno-fascist.

I also don't really think that a technology for "solving" depression, schizophrenia or obesity is inherently eugenicist either, any more than the medications that already deal with these illnesses are. And I don't consider prosthetic legs to be eugenicist, if we can broaden this to physical rather than mental disability.

Autism is a tricky one since it's not inherently a disability, and yet it can be disabling - my mate's brother will be institutionalised for life at great cost because he (and he's a big, strong lad) becomes violently reactive to quite a lot of stimuli and major breaks in his routine.

Quote from: touchingcloth on November 13, 2023, 05:12:06 PMThe things he wants to solve are pretty eugenicist-y, but even the superhuman cognition thing has some dystopian implications; given all the companies he owns and his whole "long hours at high intensity" thing, is it a stretch to think one day he might only employ people at Tesla if they have a chip fitted which comes pre-loaded with a load of company and car design manuals? Or if the types of schools which feed his types of companies start only accepting cyborg students, or at least they're the only ones who graduate with the top degrees?

This is capitalism, elitism and fascism, not transhumanism. Yes, the intersection between capitalist hierarchies and technology/resources is highly concerning, as it always has been. But the above is not transhumanist philosophy. Musk isn't a transhumanist even if he likes sci-fi technology. And trying to make critiques of transhumanism based on his opinions is as flawed as (apology for Godwinning this discussion) trying to make a critique of socialism based on the beliefs and actions of Hitler's National Socialist Party.

touchingcloth

Musk might not be "a transhumanist" as the label that best applies to him, but he owns a transhumanist company. He believes, I think, in the Nick Bostrom simulation hypothesis, and we can probably agree that Bostrom is a transhumanist?

Bostrom has this on his site, anyway:

QuoteOther transhumanist themes include space colonization and the possibility of creating superintelligent machines, along with other potential developments that could profoundly alter the human condition. The ambit is not limited to gadgets and medicine, but encompasses also economic, social, institutional designs, cultural development, and psychological skills and techniques.

https://nickbostrom.com/ethics/values

The bits in bold are the ones I have the most problem with, though I don't think it's a red flag if someone's wider philosophy makes it clear that their interest in them isn't sociopathic.

The real philosophy I have a beef with is longtermism, which overlaps with (some elements of some interpretations of) transhumanism.

"Transhumanists are fascists" is too strong a statement and can be read as "all transhumanists are fascists", I accept that. I think it's fair to say that some fascists use ideas with their roots in transhumanism in support of their fascism, in the same way as they use ideas with their roots in eugenics. To anti-Godwin you, eugenics and racism haven't always gone hand-in-hand, but the Nazis have cast a bit of a shadow over it. If it weren't for them, could non-sociopathic people today have a human discussion about whether we should try and breed obesity out of humans? Quite possibly. Could fascist adoption of transhumanist tenets poison the well for the philosophy in future? Quite possibly - reading that Bostrom article, I ping pong every second sentence between thinking "cool!" and "careful, now".

idunnosomename

all his stuff about "humanity" seems like he's happy for people to die for a greater cause

touchingcloth

My cynical view is that he's happy for people to die, and happy to not say that the greater cause is "Elon's wallet".

The scarier possibility is that he actually believes it, which his 11(+?) kids would suggest.


Blue Jam

Would it be fair to say Musk is more of a posthumanist than a transhumanist?

Would certainly fit more with his misunderstanding of The Culture.

Pink Gregory

why do I have to know anything about this man's deeply mediocre mind

Mister Six

Quote from: touchingcloth on November 19, 2023, 04:07:31 PMThe bits in bold are the ones I have the most problem with, though I don't think it's a red flag if someone's wider philosophy makes it clear that their interest in them isn't sociopathic.

I think the problem is you're taking Musk's stupid fucking opinions and obsessions and then working backwards to "these are transhumanist problems" rather than "these are Elon Musk problems and also he calls himself a transhumanist".

Likewise, you might have problems with space colonisation and superintelligent machines (and the concept of gadgets?) but your problems with these concepts and their application are separate from transhumanism, even if transhumanism enthusiasts may also be interested in these concepts.

Quote from: touchingcloth on November 19, 2023, 04:07:31 PMIf it weren't for them, could non-sociopathic people today have a human discussion about whether we should try and breed obesity out of humans?

Um, I don't think so. How do you direct/forbid breeding to iron out a particular gene without infringing on the liberties and wellbeing of the people doing the breeding?

Paul Calf

It's not only the Culture he misunderstands. I can understand that. It's complex and subtle and Musk is a fucking dipshit.

What bothers me is how he doesn't really appear to have read any Douglas Adams, an author whose works Musk has absorbed into his basic philosophy, such as it is. I heard him talking about the origin of '42' and it seemed that he'd hurriedly misread the abridged notes of HHGTTG between sessions of quality thinking about batteries or something.

Hitchhikers is fun and the plot is a bit patched together in service of the style and wit, but it isn't complicated or confusing.

Sebastian Cobb

It's not even the best series Adams penned imo.

Safe t say he'd have reckoned Musk was a right dickhead.

touchingcloth

Quote from: Mister Six on November 19, 2023, 09:25:47 PMLikewise, you might have problems with space colonisation and superintelligent machines

I don't have a problem with them, and a part of me would love to see them realised. My problem is with people who frame them as solutions to current problems on earth, especially when they're people like Musk or Bezos who could actually do a lot of good with their wealth in the here and now.

Space colonisation is probably a less contentious example than transhumanism and something with a bit more of a solid definition. Musk frames his plans for colonising Mars as existential and for the good of the species, and as we've discussed up thread there are people who'll excuse him his move-fast-and-break-stuff approach because of it. Water pollution? We've got a trillion humans to save!

You're right that that's not a problem with space colonisation as a concept, but that's how it's presented to the public by the loudest and most influential voices.

Quote from: Mister Six on November 19, 2023, 09:25:47 PMUm, I don't think so. How do you direct/forbid breeding to iron out a particular gene without infringing on the liberties and wellbeing of the people doing the breeding?

Some countries give incentives to couples who have children, like cash bonuses separate from child support. It's a bit less dystopic to suggest a payment that only goes to carriers of a certain gene than to suggest sterilising people who don't have it. Or if China still had their one child policy they could grant exceptions to certain couples. This is already privatised to an extent with sperm banks providing biographies and genetic details of the donors to prospective parents. Or you just start with the criminals - compulsory sterilisation for certain kinds of criminals, and, hey presto, you've started a eugenics programme with a racial bias and minimal public outcry.

(Actually, typing all of that reminded me of how James Stannage on Key 103 used to use his talk show to promote the idea that the solution to ASBOs was compulsory sterilisation, this being in 1999/2000.)

I don't think that's a good idea, mind, but I could see it being a discussion that wasn't immediately shut down as Naziesque if it wasn't for the Nazis.

phantom_power

Quote from: Blue Jam on November 19, 2023, 08:22:24 PMWould it be fair to say Musk is more of a posthumanist than a transhumanist?

Would certainly fit more with his misunderstanding of The Culture.

He is a longtermist, which probably tallies a fair bit with posthumanism but is a different thing. He seems to only care about people if they are abstract and born a million years from now (or it is just a way of pretending to be altruistic while still hoovering up money and not giving a shit about people living now)