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February 21, 2024, 09:50:16 PM

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TERF Crowd: The Terrifying Transphobia of Graham Linehan

Started by Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse, October 15, 2023, 09:04:51 PM

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Ferris

Quote from: Kelvin on November 22, 2023, 12:10:05 AMIt continued from here, but I think you get the gist of it.

The obvious question will be, why are you still friends with her? The short answer is, we have decades of very close friendship behind us and this is the first issue that has proven such a sticking point (and brought out a very different side of her). I'm pretty much convinced we can't get past this issue though.

(I'm trying to protect/not mention people and members of my family here so sorry if this is tediously vague or unreadable prose.)

I had a terrible unspoken worry that someone in my family was terf-adjacent. Middle class guardian-reading twitter addict who kept sea-lioning me for my opinion on trans rights, you know the type. That person has an openly gay child - pointing out their son would have been demonized in the 1980s in the way that trans people are demonized now (online, anyway) was a real Road to Damascus moment for that person. To me, it felt like they were on a knife edge and could have gone either way but the idea that banging on about all this was akin to the the way some people might have targeted their child in a less-enlightened age was a bridge they just couldn't cross.

Pointing this out helped steer that person from going down the rabbit hole, but without a gay child (and having lived-experience of the gay-panic in the '70s and '80s), I suspect they would have got into online terfing both feet first. Perhaps not, but it is so easy for people to self-radicalize on the internet.

I guess my point is: it is really hard to reach people once they start down the path, and there are precious few off-ramps. I wouldn't blame yourself for sticking to your morals and dealing with the uncomfortable conversations because you never know what might help that person see the light, and if they don't, well, at least you didn't compromise your own ethics along the way.

Noakes

christ, listening to all those pre-programmed talking points it really is cult recruitment.

Scientology, except it won't be getting you in a part in a movie.

Kankurette

And they say WE'RE a cult. Trying to convert people and pressuring them into joining your hate movement is verging on cultish.

Kelvin

Quote from: Noakes on November 22, 2023, 01:43:57 AMchrist, listening to all those pre-programmed talking points it really is cult recruitment.

Scientology, except it won't be getting you in a part in a movie.

Yes, that fourth paragraph in particular is just a list of talking point and TERF buzz words.

She kept bringing up my mum as well, saying she'd be a TERF if she knew x and y. My mum would never be a TERF or deliberately transphobic, she's incredibly open-minded and socially liberal. Dragging my mum into it might have annoyed me more than anything. 

Kankurette

I hate it when people like Linehan and your 'friend' try to bring people's mums into it. Fuck off, random TERF. You don't know my mum. She's not transphobic and she thinks Linehan is pathetic.

Barry Admin

Sorry to read all that Kelvin, very sad. It's amazing how addictive and consuming transphobia is. Otherwise normal people becoming radicalised by the internet is scary shit.

Kelvin

Quote from: Barry Admin on November 22, 2023, 03:09:18 AMSorry to read all that Kelvin, very sad. It's amazing how addictive and consuming transphobia is. Otherwise normal people becoming radicalised by the internet is scary shit.

She's their target demographic sadly. Largely isolated, heavily online, late middle-age, not very political but likes a cause, first mentioned the issues in relation to Jordan fuckface Peterson's self help videos.

Tbh I'm so angry about the way she's carried on tonight, even pursuing me across social media, that it's made it easier to just fuck the whole thing off. 

Milo

"have you ever talked to a trans person about their experience?" is possibly useful. They never have and it might make some realise they're being extremely one-sided and unfair, being so certain about the danger of a group of people they've never even met a member of. Could be a way out for someone who hasn't yet gone totally bonks.

Kelvin

With a different group of people I actually had a lot of success with the 'This is what gay people went through years ago' argument, hence why I brought it up in those messages I posted. It seems like such an obvious analogy, and with the other group it really cut through with all but one of them (who was a right wing cunt who would never have been won over).

My friend is way past the point where any argument, of any type, is going to cut through sadly.   

Beloved of Jo

While a bit grim, thanks for sharing that Kelvin. It's interesting and sad to see the way this stuff so predictably takes over peoples minds. I can understand why you remain friends with her, though. Some people I know are very much the type to immediately cut out others from their lives due to a particular area of disagreement. Myself, I tend to have a wide variety of people in my life.
My husband and I know a Pentecostal couple that, while dear friends, could turn against me if they knew I was trans.
Then there's my cousin in Scotland... we met a couple of times as children. These days she's a single mother and very much into conspiracies and anti-vax stuff. Absolutely a prime target for terfs, and I do wonder what posts she may make on FB that are not visible to me. Who knows, perhaps knowing me keeps her grounded in reality on this one thing? To be able to say "wait, my cousin isn't like that at all... you're talking complete bollocks".


Quote from: Kelvin on November 22, 2023, 12:10:05 AMHER: Being gay is a sexuality. Being a transvestite male still means you're a man with a fetish, grow up, it's not the same thing.

Always trying to convince themselves that this time, it's definitely different.



But I'm sure she's definitely right. Can't get enough of those knickers... there's just something so inherently sexy about some cloth that keeps your genitals from rubbing on your trousers. It's just a shame I found out on Twitter the other day that having had SRS means that I apparently must wear a nappy due to incontinence. You know, like those slurs back in the day about gay men, because of all the constant anal sex?
And bras, well... who doesn't love the band chafing you raw after being at work all day?

The Late Satoru Iwata

Fucking hell. A grim read, @Kelvin. Hope you're doing okay.

Remember when TERFs used to refer to 'trans women are women' as a 'mantra'? Yet the whole lot of them sound like they were given a bunch of cards with phrases on which have to be interjected into a sentence every five words.

I really think any one of us who's read as few as one of these threads could operate undercover as a TERF and be completely indistinguishable from the real thing just by dropping these committee-generated phrases. It genuinely feels like a deliberate replacement for thought.

The Late Satoru Iwata

If he's not back by the start of next thread, I humbly offer

THE GLINVISIBLE MAN

Barry Admin

Quote from: The Late Satoru Iwata on November 22, 2023, 04:22:51 AMRemember when TERFs used to refer to 'trans women are women' as a 'mantra'? Yet the whole lot of them sound like they were given a bunch of cards with phrases on which have to be interjected into a sentence every five words.

Yeah, I rolled my eyes as soon as she opened by referencing Stonewall's "no debate" slogan.

Once they start droning on about fetishes/AGP they're just completely lost. A lot of them genuinely think they're fighting some kind of worthy and honourable battle and doing the right thing, but when they get to that stage, they have their justification to engage in outright hatred, without being bothered by their conscience.

Beloved of Jo

Quote from: Mx Wrongs on November 20, 2023, 03:17:06 PMAnother one making excuses for having to shut the fuck up.




Wait, he was actually serious about the crossword bit? haha, wow




The Late Satoru Iwata

Amazing!

https://tryhardguides.com/acronym-for-a-certain-prejudiced-person-crossword-clue/

Will be fun to see if this turns into a standard crossword question.



If I were one of these folks, I'd be thrilled about being called prejudiced. If we ever end up in the 'where will it all end' TERF sci-fi scenario of paedophilia becoming socially acceptable and championed by progressives, you can bet your pants I'm going to be prejudiced and I'm going to be proud to be called paedophobic. It's not gonna be all 'show me something I've said that's "paedophobic".' I'm going to know what I've said and stand by it. These cunts should be brave enough to do the same.

I haven't slept for a couple of days so please accept my apologies if this is poorly-judged.

Milo

They literally are dictionary-definition prejudiced. They judge members of a specific group as dangerous prior to them individually doing anything wrong. They're usually keen to bang on about dictionary definitions.

Pixel Pusher

How does he think trans people have been experiencing the world since decades? Honestly it's not as bad as it used to be but the chances of something transphobic popping up in your day are still pretty high. Most trans people have had to learn to live with it and let most of it bounce off them.

The difference is that trans is a part of who I am, whereas for Arty Morty it's just the group he spends all his time persecuting. And yet here he is playing the fucking victim at the slightest little knock to his current crusade. He can honestly fuck right off.

dissolute ocelot

Andrei Tarkovsky's last film The Sacrifice was about a Swedish intellectual who did a deal with a witch that if he gave up everything he had - his home, his family, his job, even possibly his sanity - he could save the world from being destroyed by a nuclear war. Clearly this is what Glinner has done in real life, and now he is going to live out the rest of his existence apart from the human race while the rest of us get on with normal stuff. It's not entirely clear in the film whether the bargain was real or not, but the protagonist goes through with it anyway.

Jack Shaftoe

'I launched on an obsessive crusade against people who weren't doing me any harm and now it's becoming a bit inconvenient tbh'

Kankurette

Quote from: Milo on November 22, 2023, 03:22:00 AM"have you ever talked to a trans person about their experience?" is possibly useful. They never have and it might make some realise they're being extremely one-sided and unfair, being so certain about the danger of a group of people they've never even met a member of. Could be a way out for someone who hasn't yet gone totally bonks.
It's like those people in entirely white areas who act like they're flooded with immigrants. Most of these people have never met a trans person in their lives and never will but you'd think they couldn't even leave the house without bumping into one.

shoulders

#2720
The Katy Montgomery screenshot above genuinely comes across like the mirror image of the obsessiveness and ideating about 'final victory' than that which we are criticising.

Not sure I subscribe to the narrative either. Perma-progress, even over the very long term, allowing for regressive periods is not a given. There is no concrete proof that will happen and there certainly won't be a time when transphobes will be left defeated and ruined.

There is a genuine risk that 20th century Western liberalism succeeded too late for trans issues to have enough impetus and momentum that gay rights enjoyed in the last 30 years to be able to consolidate and build on gains with the consent of the public and the will of parliament (and that's just in the UK).

Can totally imagine liberal politicians morphing into Macron/Starmer style Tories once they smell which way the wind is blowing, and bang, there goes your representation democratically.

Z-Model Ford

Quote from: Kelvin on November 22, 2023, 03:20:27 AMTbh I'm so angry about the way she's carried on tonight, even pursuing me across social media, that it's made it easier to just fuck the whole thing off. 

Whatever the female equivalent of 'debate me bro' is it seems like she's contracted a fairly acute case.

I know I barely post here, and it's not like you asked for advice, but in my experience once people prove that they're happy to trample all over your personal feelings of discomfort for their own gratification it's rarely worth the grief. Chasing you all over social media is a pretty sizeable red flag as well.

phantom_power

Quote from: Barry Admin on November 22, 2023, 04:37:06 AMYeah, I rolled my eyes as soon as she opened by referencing Stonewall's "no debate" slogan.

Once they start droning on about fetishes/AGP they're just completely lost. A lot of them genuinely think they're fighting some kind of worthy and honourable battle and doing the right thing, but when they get to that stage, they have their justification to engage in outright hatred, without being bothered by their conscience.


That and talking about not being able to go about every day life and her safety being in jeopardy as if any part of her life is in any way affected by actual real trans people rather than the bogeymen in her head

Mx Wrongs

He got a double-page spread in the Express yesterday. I only skimmed it, recycled shite to promote his book.

https://archive.is/4dGXs

HOWTO: Promote A Literary Masterpiece
Father Ted creator blasts cancellation as modern-day McCarthyism
EXCLUSIVE: Father Ted creator Graham Linehan was told he was on the 'wrong side of history' for speaking in favour of women's rights. Even as the tide begins to turn against the intolerance of extreme trans ideology, his moving new memoir reveals the heavy price he paid.
By LEO MCKINSTRY
22:00, Tue, Nov 21, 2023


Linehan has become one of Britain's most vocal critics of trans ideology and activism (Image: Channel 4)
With his uniquely surreal sense of humour, gift for dialogue and fertile imagination, Graham Linehan has been the author of some of the most memorable television comedy of recent decades. His finest creation, still cherished by millions of fans, remains Father Ted, the hilariously-wayward yet lovable Catholic priest and his eccentric household on a remote Irish island. Yet perhaps nothing that Linehan has ever written has been as important as this brilliant but often painful memoir. Its compelling narrative amounts to a savage attack on the cowardice, hypocrisy and deceit of an entertainment industry that has surrendered to political dogma and abandoned the concept of free expression.

Following in the tradition of Emile Zola's explosive newspaper article J'Accuse, in which he tore apart the late 19th century French political and military establishment for its anti-semitic witch-hunt against Jewish officer Alfred Dreyfus on bogus charges of treason, Linehan uses his own experience of being denounced as heretic to expose the hysteria that has gripped public discourse.

The thoughtcrime that led to Linehan's ostracism was his willingness to challenge the rise of the fashionable transgender ideology, which he saw as a threat to childhood innocence, biological realities, and women's rights.

When he began his career as a writer in the 1980s on the Dublin music magazine Hot Press, his stance would have been seen as just common sense, even progressive. But all that began to change as trans activists pushed their revolutionary agenda, accompanied by bullying and blackmail.

With dramatic speed, the Bafta-winning writer, now 55, was transformed from the darling of the comedy circuit into the enemy of the people because he refused to subscribe to the new orthodoxy. The ruthless campaign against him brought about the end of his marriage, his career, his friendships, his livelihood and his home.

"I lost everything," he writes with understandable bitterness. "Each betrayal sits in my memory like crows dotted along a telephone wire." At one stage in 2020, having found himself divorced, jobless and virtually friendless, he contemplated suicide. "During Covid, it was horrific because I was completely alone," he has recalled. "I was thinking, I could jump off that building. Would that be tall enough to kill me or would I just be crippled for life?"

Modern liberals like to wail about the impact of the anti-communist crusade led by the unbalanced, right-wing senator Joe McCarthy in 1950s America, but the victims of McCarthyism endured far less than Linehan.

In one typical incident, he was suddenly dropped by producers of the show Father Ted The Musical, on which he had been working for more than five years, and which he regarded as his "pension". At this final meeting, he recorded, "I have never experienced anything like the coldness and contempt with which I was treated." Heroically he refused to accept the lump sum he was offered in compensation, feeling that the money was tainted.

Anyone who values freedom should read this book, which provides a chilling insight into how a determined cabal can seize the agenda by exploiting social media and the modern cult of identity politics. Referring to his case, Linehan writes of his amazement at "how swiftly these internet low-lifers gained such power over society". Terrified of accusations of bigotry, and desperate to signal their political virtues, key figures in the media, politics, the arts and the law pathetically colluded with the trans lobby. "When the history of these years is written," he declares, "it is not only the extremist activists who will be recalled with revulsion but also the spineless corporate figures who never made an attempt to resist them."

The relentless campaign of harassment included the publication online of fake obituaries, bogus claims that he posted intimate photos of his anatomy, allegations that he was a Nazi sympathiser and demands that he should be convicted of sex crimes, have the word "rapist" tattooed on his shaved head, and be chemically castrated.

He further recounts that, as part of a systematic "assault on my sanity," he was questioned three times by the police, acting on spurious complaints from a zealot with a criminal record and a vendetta against him.
The later parts of his memoir are all the more powerful because of his anger.

The father-of-two has become one of Britain's most vocal critics of trans ideology and activism, claiming it is eroding women's rights and harming children. Linehan has been especially vocal about women sharing safe spaces with men who identify as women and is fiercely opposed to transgender athletes competing in women's sport.

He points out that no less than 80 percent of trans men who identify as female retain their male organs, making a nonsense of the complacency about opening up women's spaces like prisons, refuges, and single-sex hospital wards.
Of the threat to women and girls from perverts, he writes that the introduction of gender self-identification "didn't just unlock the henhouse to any passing predator; it scattered a buffet of treats that led to the door".

What worsened the ordeal was that, near its start, he was diagnosed with testicular cancer, which entailed some agonising medical procedures. News he had recovered only prompted more abuse from activists. "I wish the cancer had won," wrote one. With heavy irony, Dublin-born Linehan says that he became used to "people writing me nasty letters about the importance of kindness".
The deepest pain, however, was not physical but mental, stemming from his sense of betrayal by friends and colleagues who refused to stand by him. "My old buddies – the gunslingers and the iconoclasts – were nowhere to be seen," he writes. He felt particular regret over the rift with Arthur Matthews, his co-creator on Father Ted. Forged by their comedic talent and their Irish roots, their bond had almost been fraternal when they first began to work together as sketch-writers for a variety of shows.

Hailing from a middle-class, devoutly Catholic family, he had been a well-regarded, highly articulate rock journalist. But, even working alongside Matthews, the attempt to make a living in the ferociously competitive scene of London could hardly have been a more daunting test. Their first landlord was none other than Griff Rhys Jones, a shrewd businessman as well as a comedy legend, whose hugely successful BBC show with Mel Smith had turned out to be the first big break for the two young Irishmen.
Graham Linehan at the BAFTA ceremony 2014

Graham and his wife Helen went on to have two children, but their marriage did not survive (Image: Getty)
Linehan is fascinating on the art of writing for comedy, and the upbeat tone of these chapters makes the anguish of his downfall all the greater.

The first sitcom he devised with Matthews, set in Paris in the 1920s, was a comparative flop, partly because its over-the-top surrealism meant that it was not grounded in a strong set of characters or unifying theme.
But they got the ingredients just right with Father Ted, including the ideal cast headed by Dermot Morgan as Ted himself. Morgan, a well-known Irish comedian, singer and actor, recognised the huge potential of the series and was desperate to win the leading role.

"It was burning a hole in him," recalls Linehan. Though his partnership with Matthews did not last, further success followed with the IT Crowd, about a computer department that languished in the basement of an office block.
Again, like Father Ted, the show had a surreal edge and rich characters, one of them superbly played by Richard Ayoade.

Before filming began, an unintentionally funny moment arose between Ayoade and Linehan, who had been asked to give more details about the character. "You're playing the biggest nerd that ever lived. A nerdy, nerdy nerd who doesn't know how to behave with regular humans," Linehan said. "So what sort of voice should I have?" asked Ayoade. "Oh, just your regular voice," said Linehan.
But there were no bad feelings about the gaffe. Ayoade has been one of the few figures from showbusiness who stood in solidarity with Linehan through all his tribulations

In addition to his career, Linehan had family responsibilities, having married the writer Helen Serafinowicz, whose brother Peter was also an accomplished actor, comedian and impressionist.

Helen and Graham went on to have two children, but their marriage could not survive the pressures of the long fight against the trans lobby, especially when Helen grew worried about financial and personal security as Graham grew increasingly isolated.

But the worst may now be over for him. Towards the end of the book, he argues that the tide is turning against extremism and intolerance. People are warmer to him in the street, broadcasters less hostile. When the producer of Father Ted The Musical kicked off the project, she told him he was "on the wrong side of history".
But the opposite may be true. This brave, wise, and funny man could well be vindicated in the years to come.

[close]


Dr Rock

QuoteHelen and Graham went on to have two children, but their marriage could not survive the pressures of the long fight against the trans lobby, especially when Helen grew worried about financial and personal security as Graham grew increasingly isolated.

Is that how Helen would phrase it? Anyway, bonkers stuff

They've got Farage so the gammon demographic is covered, but can you imagine?


Mx Wrongs

Quote from: extraordinary walnuts on November 22, 2023, 11:45:04 AMEXCLUSIVE

Exclusive to anyone who'll listen is technically still exclusive.

'Cancelled' in the Express is also subjective.

This is how it feels to be cancelled

This is how it feels to be small


[close]

This is how it feels when your word means nothing at all.

Hah, I was just looking at that list of Express articles and laughing. Yesterday's spread wasn't even exclusive to the Express, let alone every other rag he's peddled the exact same story to, repeatedly.

buttgammon

Diana's ghost will be furious to see she's being displaced by some banana freak.