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Star Trek: The Next Generation Rewatch (oh god no)

Started by Lemming, May 11, 2021, 02:05:41 PM

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Blumf

Quote from: Lemming on June 30, 2022, 03:11:47 AMThe plot of this episode is now that Worf, who has become the Predator, is attempting to rape Picard

And you only gave this episode a 3/10?!!! @daf has the right score.

Forerunner for all the body horror that Voyager throws at us.

MojoJojo

It also has Voyager's terrible use of "evolution" to explain stuff, and the idea that changing somethings DNA changes it's form. I know it's not supposed to be scientifically accurate but it's just so dumb.

(To be extra picky, I'd point out that spiders are invertebrates and our evolution diverged long before spiders had spider like features, so even in the completely broken understanding of evolution presented in the show it makes absolutely no sense for Barclay to de-evolve into spider).

So what happened to the teleporters biofilters then? Even if Barclay took a shuttle over, seems like a quick transport would be a quicker fix for the Urodelan flu than Bev's injection thing*.

I like how with Worf, the logic is -
- Maximum stun setting might not work so we won't even try
- Anything higher might kill him

It's really bizarre how Bev just breezily brushes over the fact that she fucked up, causing the death of at least one crew member, narrowly avoided killing the entire crew, and caused what must be massive physical and emotional trauma to everyone. But she gets a research paper out of it, so it's all fine.
- Obviously the best thing to do is electrocute the fuck out of him.




(*bugger, just remembered Barclay's transporter phobia. I think if they wanted to use that to explain how Barlcay has a virus despite the biofilters, they needed to mention it.)

Lemming

Quote from: Blumf on June 30, 2022, 11:34:31 AMAnd you only gave this episode a 3/10?!!! @daf has the right score.
The ending is almost spectacular enough to bump it up another point but the pure lethargy of the trip around the ship kept it down for me. Though the more I think about it in retrospect, the funnier Picard's non-reactions are. His friend turns into a fish so he sort of just looks a bit confused then puts her back under the water.

Quote from: MojoJojo on July 01, 2022, 11:22:13 AM(To be extra picky, I'd point out that spiders are invertebrates and our evolution diverged long before spiders had spider like features, so even in the completely broken understanding of evolution presented in the show it makes absolutely no sense for Barclay to de-evolve into spider).
Yeah I was wondering where spiders came into the human sequence of evolution! I think when I first saw this episode ages ago it confused me even more because I remember thinking that everyone was just turning into whatever creature their species evolved from, hence Ogawa and Riker both becoming pre-human primates. So Barclay made even less sense, and I thought for the longest time that Betazoids were amphibians who'd evolved from fish.

Geordi's the big mystery here, though - totally unaffected at a point when everyone else on the crew is starting to lose it, and then just vanishes from the episode. I can only imagine he lucked out and the virus chose to "de-evolve" him to a very, very recent point in his evolutionary history. Like, he turned into a human from the 1500s or something. Lost a little bit of height and not much else.

The Culture Bunker

The whole Barclay/Spider thing made me wonder if he had some non-human ancestor or suchlike.

Never liked the episode, but body horror stuff has always been a bit much for a soft lad like myself. I bet when O'Brien heard about it, he was grateful for the transfer: if he'd still been on board, he'd probably have turned into King Kong, slaughtered half the crew and been forced to live on with the knowledge.

Mr_Simnock

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on July 01, 2022, 05:04:29 PMThe whole Barclay/Spider thing made me wonder if he had some non-human ancestor or suchlike.

Never liked the episode, but body horror stuff has always been a bit much for a soft lad like myself. I bet when O'Brien heard about it, he was grateful for the transfer: if he'd still been on board, he'd probably have turned into King Kong, slaughtered half the crew and been forced to live on with the knowledge.

nah, he would have just turned up as an orangemen screeming 'garvaghy road' around 10 forward

Blumf

Quote from: Lemming on July 01, 2022, 04:08:51 PMGeordi's the big mystery here, though - totally unaffected at a point when everyone else on the crew is starting to lose it, and then just vanishes from the episode. I can only imagine he lucked out and the virus chose to "de-evolve" him to a very, very recent point in his evolutionary history. Like, he turned into a human from the 1500s or something. Lost a little bit of height and not much else.

Uses the terms "verily" and "forsooth" slightly more than normal.

Lemming

#1986
S07E20 - Journey's End

Wesley returns to the ship for a holiday (???) while the Enterprise is dispatched to remove a colony of settlers from soon-to-be Cardassian space.

- Oh no! We're picking up Wesley. Except something's up - he's downcast and mopey, and Geordi being chirpy right in his face doesn't help at all.

- Necheyev's coming over so Picard's gotten his tea party kit out and brought it to the briefing room. The hope is that this will build bridges with Necheyev, making a change from their previous HEAVILY-CHARGED encounters.

- He's even made her favourite snack specially. PROJECT FRIENDSHIP is a runaway success. Picard and Necheyev are basically bosom buddies now, so the briefing goes smoothly - the Cardassian border is moving and it's a complete shitshow that leaves numerous Federation colonies in Cardie space and vice versa. Picard is tasked with getting them to move, for the alternative is war. Picard is on board with this until he finds out the planet he's being dispatched to is Dorvan V, where a group of "North American Indians" settled 20 years ago.

- Wesley goes to Engineering and trashes Geordi's shoddy work. As thanks, Geordi tells him to fuck off, which he does in a strop.

- Picard and Troi go to meet with the settlers, and offer them a choice of three other planets to move to, with the option of more, and Picard prostrates himself and states his DEEPEST RESPECT for their spiritual beliefs. Not good enough, of course, and they tell him that this particular planet is the best in the biz and that they won't leave. To celebrate this diplomatic breakdown, Picard invites them all up for a party on the Enterprise.

- Bev takes Wes aside and asks him what the hell's wrong with him. He snaps and says he's bored of being in Shitfleet, bored of being constrained by its INSANE rules, and bored of living up to other people's expectations. Go on Wes!!! Last appearance (until the great Star Trek: Picard, of course) but he's finally really sticking up for himself.

- The settlers gather in Ten Forward for an absolutely excruciating party. Picard begs the settler's leader to reconsider for the sake of averting war, and the guy tells him to piss off (in a roundabout way), and goes on about his ancestors. He wants to know about Picard's ancestors too to better understand him. Picard starts talking about a medieval French nobleman when, mercifully, Wes walks in and the camera chooses to follow him instead. A weird guy called Lakanta comes over and says he's been anticipating Wes' arrival. It was foretold in a VISION QUEST. Lakanta gives off immense pedo vibes, actually a great bit of foreshadowing.

- In Picard's quarters, Bev frets about the complete and total collapse of Wesley's awful, disappointing life. Picard tells her to leave it, it'll be fine.

- In a set that's clearly the village from "The Inner Light", Wes goes looking for Lakanta, who's just really annoying:
QuoteWESLEY: How long have you been watching me?
LAKANTA: Since you beamed down.
WESLEY: Well, I'm here. What should I do?
LAKANTA: I don't know.
WESLEY: I thought you were going to help me find some answers.
LAKANTA: Answers to your questions.
Just turn round and walk right back to the ship, Wes... Anyway, Lakanta tells Wes that everything is sacred, including him, then makes him go on a vision quest. Uh oh!

- Negotiations fail. Picard tells them that playtime's over and he'll kick them off the planet if they don't leave voluntarily. The leader replies that he looked into it and one of Picard's ancestors was involved in a murderous atrocity committed against various tribes in New Mexico in the 1600s. He believes Picard has been sent here by FATE to atone for this.

- Picard's ancestor was a Spanish conquistador? What about his PROUD FRENCH ANCESTRY?

- Cardassian troops show up in the village, asking to know why the evacuation hasn't started. Picard meets with the Gul and they conduct a bit of mutual veiled dick-waving. Meanwhile, Lakanta takes Wes up to an attic, and starts throwing sand around and talking about coyote spirits while Wes looks on spellbound.

- In a Zoom call, Picard tells Necheyev that he's botched the mission and he can't make the settlers leave. She tells him to get on with it and ends the call. Picard fears that he's about to become a GENOCIDAL MANIAC like his ancestor, and orders Worf to make preparations to remove the settlers.

- Wes goes on a voyage to trip-out city and sees JACK CRUSHER. That's the whole vision, big letdown. Lasts about ten seconds, not worth the price of admission. Outside, he sees Worf making THE PREPARATIONS and tells him that moving the settlers by force is wrong. He alerts everyone and they get ready to beat Worf's ass, forcing a retreat.

- Picard yells at Wes for RUINING EVERYTHING. Wes replies that it's wrong to move the colonists, because they're not just some "random colonists" (okay to move by force), but people with a "unique culture" (not okay to move by force). Picard tries to pull rank on him as usual and Wes tells him that's not possible because he's resigning from Starfleet. Lol!

- Bev demands to know what Wes is playing at, and he tells her that Starfleet is well shit and he's had enough. Bev finally realises that maybe everyone was putting a bit too much pressure on Wes back when he was 14 and wore stupid jumpers.

- Back on the planet, the settlers take the Cardies prisoner. Everything goes fuckwards, a shootout starts, and then time freezes except for Wesley. Lakanta shows up and says Wes is magic and took himsef out of regular time. Lakanta then morphs into fan-favourite character SPACE NONCE! He continues rattling on with his stupid cryptic shit, and tells Wes it's time to evolve and become a traveller. Wes says they should help resolve the ongoing fuckup-in-progress, but the traveller says nah, he reckons it'll be fine even though someone is literally being shot at the point at which time is frozen.

- On the Enterprise's bridge, Picard begs the Gul to de-escalate to avoid another war. He does, and beams his guys out peacefully. Later, Picard and the Gul both meet with the leader, who is giving up his Federation citizenship and remaining in Cardie space. The Gul says he'll pull strings to get the Cardie government to agree. He bafflingly refers to Starfleet as "the Starfleet".

- The settler leader says Picard has atoned for the sins of his family. Guess he didn't get the memo:
QuoteDATA: In the year 2036, the new United Nations declared that no Earth citizen could be made to answer for the crimes of his race or forbears.
(from Encounter at Farpoint)

Let's go over the Wes stuff first - I like that he finally tells Picard to fuck off, and that he decides Starfleet isn't for him and isn't the be-all and end-all of existence. What I don't like is that he's fated to become a traveller. Ridiculous. The plot would have worked fine if he simply defied orders and resigned from Starfleet without also becoming a magic space god.

As for the rest... I like the development of Necheyev. But as for the colonists, wow. They're so annoying as to be almost entirely unsympathetic, and you end up only taking their side because they're about to be forcibly moved by the state. Maybe I'm showing a scummy collectivist mindset here, but... you live in the space-communism age where you can have as much as you want of anything you want, and you can have it replicated right away. You're voluntarily part of a democratic organisation which, as we learn at the end, you can unilaterally withdraw from at any time if you don't like the way things are going. A decision has been reached which ultimately goes against your wishes, for the sake of avoiding a war that would kill millions. Are the colonists being unreasonable here, or am I just an arsehole? If I was in their position and Picard-the-government-man said "sorry, but after years of negotiations, you may have to relocate to avoid a galactic war that will kill millions - please choose one of these planets we've earmarked for you", I think I'd huff and say "fine".

It doesn't help that the only reason we get as to why they refuse to move is the leader saying "when I came here twenty years ago, I was welcomed by the mountains, the rivers, the sky". It's imperative that they stay on this planet specifically, apparently, but that's the only reason we're given. That's their reason for putting millions of lives at risk - a very vaguely-drawn religious conviction. It's on par with the guy in "The Ensigns of Command" who refuses to leave the colony because "my grandad built this waterway!!!". We don't really learn much about why they chose to fly out here, either - just that they didn't like the "cultural homogeneity" they felt was developing on Earth. The entire Federation is being put at risk so a group of traditionalists can build a replica of a place and culture from Earth's history and go about in period costumes, like the Scottish Highland colony in "Sub Rosa". They insist they can only do this on this exact planet.

I really wish the Sub Rosa colony was used in this episode instead, because the entire Federation being put at risk over some guys' desire to have a tea party outside his perfectly-replicated Scottish church would be too fucking funny.

Anyway, we're also told that when they arrived 20 years ago, they were clearly warned that it was a contested planet and that problems may arise down the line, and they went ahead anyway. Given that they were aware of the potential consequences of this decision, this might have been a good time to withdraw their membership of the Federation, to ensure that nobody else would be put at risk in future by their actions and also protect themselves from... exactly what ends up happening here. But no, they basically set the entire Federation up for a future fuckup, and when that fuckup inevitably came, they didn't just refuse to help, but actively did everything in their power to escalate the situation to the point of actually bringing the galaxy to the brink of war.

All of this is mainly a problem because the episode seems to want you to be enraptured with the colonists and fully sympathetic to their cause, when instead it ends up (for me, anyway) being a situation where everyone on the screen comes across as a dickhead, colonists and Enterprise crew alike (and the traveller, especially him). I think it's wrong to relocate them by force no matter what, so I am on their side, but fucking hell they don't make it easy. Their cause is religious in nature which is difficult to sympathise with (not least because we don't really know what they believe), but also, not a single one of them is personally likeable at all. No fault of the actors - there's simply no solid characterisation for them to work with. The script doesn't really allow them to be passionate or defiant or anything. The colony guy in "The Ensigns of Command"  came across as deeply invested in the colony, even if you thought he was unreasonable. These guys just come across as vaguely bored.

The story's tough to get into as a result. "The Ensigns of Command" is a similar story told in a much better and more engaging way, because it's essentially a character piece about Data. This is sort of about Picard (and Wes, obviously), but I couldn't tell you what the point of it was.

On a wider note, Picard makes sure to restate every thirty seconds how much he respects the spiritual beliefs of the colonists. It's a bit of a turnaround from his "all religion is dark ages superstition, ho ho ho" stuff from "Who Watches The Watchers?". It's interesting how the mood and attitude of the show evolved over time. I kind of miss when the crew were all dogmatic stuck-up lunatics with batshit beliefs in the first season.

3/10


You know what the worst part is though. The colonists are described as nomadic, then we beam down to find a village of well lived-in adobe houses. Episode-wrecking oversight, there.

Zero Gravitas


Get your tongue any further up her arse Picard?


Geordi is a hack.


It was space paedo all along!


400mg of magnesium downed with the cowies, pure fucking quality, zero gurn.

Quote from: Lemming on July 03, 2022, 05:22:47 AM- The settler leader says Picard has atoned for the sins of his family. Guess he didn't get the memo:
QuoteDATA: In the year 2036, the new United Nations declared that no Earth citizen could be made to answer for the crimes of his race or forbears.
(from Encounter at Farpoint)

Pretty fucking dark such a declaration was needed, kinda feel sorry for the Noonien Singhs now.

willbo

Wil Wheaton loves Doctor Who and Quantum Leap. The Traveller is just the kind of character he'd want to be. I wonder if he/they ever thought about a spin off.

Blumf

Theory:
Bev was surreptitiously dosing Wes with hormone blockers to keep him her child forever, the only thing she has left after daddy Crusher carked it. However, since he went off to the academy and she can no longer suppress the boy's raging hormones, Wes goes into the full on surly teen puberty we see here. The Warp Nonce detects this as his last chance to make good the grooming he's been working on and take Wes out of the time continuum before his ball fully drop.


As for the rest; entirely in agreement, complete mess of an attempt at sympathy. The classic 90s shallow fetishism of Native Americans, only topped by Voyager's hiring of a fraud as a consultant.

daf

171 | "Journey's End"



Space Brat!
The most effectual
Space Brat!
Who's intellectual
Close friends get to call him Wesley
Providing it's with dignity!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Highlights
• Welsley's Private Wanking Quarters
• Data's "Calling Security" Zinger
• Admiral Ballbreaker's Canapé Calming Cardassian Crisis Chat
• Wesley's Geordi-Patronising Arsehole Attitude
• Creepy Vision Quest Indian Stalker
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other Bits :
• The 1680 Pueblo Indians are Revolting!!
• Picard's 23 generation Bloodstain
• Stalker's Shed of Spiritual Shit
• Mystical Fireside Dad Chat
• Time-Freezing Space-Nonce "Special Uncle" Unmasked
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Score :

elliszeroed

Hey, Wesley! You don't like Starfleets insane rules? Well if you had followed those insane rules your buddy, Josh Albert wouldn't have died, and Nick Locarno would probably be an admiral by now!

Prick.

MojoJojo

Ugh. The gross characterisation of the "native Americans" is made worse because the whole long searched for homeland thing is an Israel thing. That's the minority your ancestors didn't commit an atrocity against, script writers - they were just jerks to them.

I think the problems with this episode are shown up by the fact the only character who doesn't come across as an arsehole is the Cardassian.  Picard is sort of OK, he's put in an impossible situation, but he's a bit of a wet flannel.

The Wesley story... I dunno, such a change from his previous character is realistic given his age and length of absence, but it's not very good from a story point of view. The Traveller again comes across as creepy and predatory - now with some cultural appropriation of his own.

Worth pointing out that the film Insurrection retreds this plot, but has Picard switch sides. Sort of suggest that producers didn't like how this one turned out.

Lemming

Thought about the episode a bit more and I'm convinced the best course of action available to Picard was, at the point where he says "w-well we'll move you by force then!!", to instead say "okay, well the planet will become Cardassian territory in X number of days. Anyone who wants to stay can do so and become Cardassian citizens, which we'll arrange with the Cardassian government, and anyone who wants to leave aboard the Enterprise to relocate to Federation space can do so." Pretty much the same conclusion they reach anyway, but without having to almost fire on Cardassian troops, and without Picard being such a weed. Necheyev/Starfleet can't really complain - the treaty will go ahead as planned, and all the settlers who wanted to leave were able to do so.

Malcy

@daf

I've said it before but worth saying again. I would love an eBook of your ratings and jokes. They are so so good. And I'd "pay good money if he'd shut up" make it available to buy.

daf

#1995
Coo! Bless you @Malcy - Your kind words butter some parsnips!

This thread is sort of the eBook - a wonderful sandbox to just mess about in!

Lemming

S07E21 - Firstborn

After a frightening experience, a mysterious stranger tries to turn Alexander into a warrior.

- Worf has asked Alexander to meet him after school for WARRIOR CLASS, where Worf struts around like a knobhead giving it the usual "A WARRIOR IS FORGED IN FIRE" crap. Alexander chooses to go have fun with his friends instead. The DISHONOUR is mind-rending.

- When Alexander does arrive, Worf regurgitates his ace "A WARRIOR IS FORGED IN FIRE" speech, with 90% accuracy. It's Alexander's Age of Ascension, which means he's got to get repeatedly hit in the cock on the holodeck to go from BOY/CIVILIAN to MAN/WARRIOR. He's not interested, and says he doesn't want to be a warrior. Worf got the candles out for nothing!

- As usual, the flagship of the Federation, on its exciting ongoing mission of exploration in the uncharted frontier, has got fuck-all to do. Picard tells everyone to have fun during the lengthy downtime. After the briefing, Picard calls Worf aside to ask if everything's alright. That's right, we're having a debriefing of the briefing, just in case you thought TNG didn't have enough fucking briefings.

- Picard suggests that Alexander isn't interested in Klingon crap because he just doesn't understand the raw beauty of the culture that involves "painsticks" and killing each other for fun. He tells Worf that he read about a cool Klingon festival that's coming up soon, and because the USS Enterprise, flagship of the United Federation of Planets, is doing nothing and doesn't need a security officer, Worf has the opportunity to go attend and bring Alex along.

- At the festival, Klingons swing bat'leths around and go "wuuugh". Geordi and Bev are here too and loudly talk over the whole thing to ask Worf what's going on, because the actors are speaking Klingon. How does the Universal Translator not translate it? I know they're singing, so it'd have to somehow translate it in a way that made it still fit the melody, but the UT presumably does that anyway by picking translations that take the same amount of time to say as the original sentence, hence why there's no awkward moments where people have finished speaking in their own language but the UT translation is still playing.

- There's audience participation where you can go and get into a sword fight with the actors. Alex goes in and slashes one of them. Safety bat'leths or something?

- That night, Alex comes to find Worf and asks him for money so he can go hang with his friends. Ahahaha, one day here and he fits into Klingon culture better than Worf does. They start walking off but BAD BASTARDS ambush them at knifepoint. A mysterious stranger shows up and shoots one of the thugs, then Worf beats up the others. The mysterious stranger is K'mtar! Our old mate K'mtar! A guy we've never seen before!

- Picard's off on his wanking expedition so Riker's in charge of the ship. Worf brings K'mtar to the briefing room for yet another LIQUID TNG BRIEFING. K'mtar is a protector of House of Mogh, and a dagger recovered from the thugs bears the mark of the House of Duras. Riker is now in charge of investigating this potentially explosive situation.

- Later, K'mtar tells Worf that Kurn has no male heir (Klingon slang for "secretly gay") and thus expects Alexander to take over as the leader of the House of Mogh. I don't know if that's because of sexist horseshit, or if there are literally just no heirs at all in the House of Mogh, given that the only members are Worf, Alexander, Kurn, and, uh, Jeremy Aster.

- Upon learning that Alexander is a flop who doesn't want to become a warrior, K'mtar begins the masterplan to convince him that Klingons are ace. This masterplan involves standing weirdly over his bed and telling him that he'd be happier on the homeworld, and that becoming a warrior will give him the ability to kick ass all over the place next time thugs attack him.

- Data searches for the location of the Duras sisters, and finds they were last seen on DS9. I assume that refers to an actual episode, but I haven't seen DS9 in a long time. Anyway, Riker opens a channel to Quark!!!! "Lursa" is pronounced "Lorsa" now. Maybe it always was?

- Quark tells Riker to head to the Kalla system. K'mtar is concerned that Quark might have misled them, and Riker does some hilariously out of character shit where he's like "he'd know better than to lie to me, BECAUSE I'D BE BACK - AND IN A BAD MOOD". This trick presumably works quite well on anyone under the age of two, but I doubt anyone out of nappies is intimidated by Will Riker.

- Alexander is taken to the holodeck for an endless battle against holo-Klingons. Goes on for ages. Anyway, Alexander refuses to kill one of the fallen enemies, and K'mtar roasts him for his foolish mercy.

- An away team go down into a cave in the place Quark said to check out and find an alien called Gorta. He's involved in illegal mining operations, and says he'll give info about the Duras sisters if the crew can transport him off the planet and help him evade legal consequences. Geordi says he'll see what he can do. Haha! Geordi! What's he gonna do, call the Pakleds and say "hi, I'm the Chief Engineer of the Enterprise, and I'd like to throw my non-existent weight around with you".

- Lursa and B'Etor took the ore from the shady mining op and hauled ass. While the Enterprise pursues, K'mtar and Worf have another ALEXANDER-CENTRIC CHAT. K'mtar wants to send him off to a FIGHTING ACADEMY, but Worf shoots the idea down. This makes K'mtar get shitty, so Worf fights Alexander's corner and tells him to fuck off.

- OoooOOOoh the gloves are coming off now because K'mtar is invoking the Klingon Ceremony Of Calling Worf An Unfit Father!

- Behind Worf's back, K'mtar goes to read Alexander boring Klingon stories. Alexander ruins them with a load of Death of the Author bullshit by viewing them through his own morals and reintepreting CRAVEN FOOLS as HEROIC PACIFISTS. K'mtar tells him he'll always be a sad loser unless he goes to Agony School, which makes Alexander storm out.

- Weird ship floating in space. It's Yridians, who the Duras sisters sold the ore to. Riker's got a FIENDISH PLAN. He buys some of the ore and blows it up in space, which makes it turn into gold glitter and reveals Lursa and B'Etor's cloaked ship. How the fuck.

- The sisters come over for yet another thrilling briefing. They don't know shit about the Duras dagger or the assassination attempt. They set off for QonoS, and also call Kurn and tell him to head there too. Haha, how small is space? Must be about the size of West Yorkshire, tops.

- B'Etor looks at the dagger more closely and sees spooky shit - the markings represent the members of the House of Duras. But there's a symbol representing Lursa's son. She doesn't have a son, but she is pregnant! If only she'd been in the House of Durex!!!! HahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

- Nobody but B'Etor knew about the pregnancy, so the dagger must be from the future or something. Everyone agrees it's well weird, and that K'mtar must be up to some weird dodgy shit because of this. Indeed, he walks into Alexander's bedroom and aims a disruptor at him while he sleeps. Worf rocks up and gets him in a textbook stranglehold. K'mtar says he's actually Alexander from 40 years in the future. Wow, what a twist! He proves it by recalling K'Ehleyr's death and Worf's exact words at the time (impressive, since he was only three). He says he came here to change the past, and prevent Worf from being killed in the future. He was murdered, and Alexander was there but was TOO WEAK to do shit, because he didn't become a warrior, but became a Peaceful Diplomat instead.

- I feel like the easiest way to do this would have been to just tell Worf about this, rather than stage an assassination attempt which could have sparked a civil war...

- He admits that he staged the assassination attempt to try and spook his child self into becoming a warrior. Plot solved, no problem. Worf says that now that time has been disrupted, things might not turn out the same way anyway. He congratulates Alexander on becoming a diplomat and says that working for peace is HONOURABLE, and that he should be comfortable with who he has become.

- Later, K'mtar leaves (goes back to the future, I guess?). Worf goes to the holodeck where he finds Alexander trying to learn bat'leth strats. He tells him that there's no need for bat'leth practice right now. Character development!

This is the first episode ever that I actually don't remember. I honestly think there's a chance I somehow haven't seen it before, though I have no idea how the hell that could be the case, given that I've watched the DVD boxset numerous times and the entire thing through on Netflix once. This episode popped in from another universe or something. No memory of it. It could be because it's frankly quite dull, and also feels a lot like other episodes - hunting the Durex Sisters feels exactly like the filler content from a lot of those overlong two-parters, where Riker would go gather information at space bars and scrapyards and pirate ships and whatever, while the Klingon stuff just feels like every other Klingon episode.

When the big twist was revealed, I kind of did an unsure "ohhh yeah". It did all start to sound vaguely familiar at that point but I'm still not 100% sure I've actually seen this before. Weird. There was a thing in the news recently that said that covid can result in the equivalent of twenty years of mental aging and cognitive decline, so I'll just assume that happened to me and made me forget this specific thing.

Anyway, it was alright. I like the continuing evolution of the Worf and Alexander dynamic, with Worf increasingly supportive of Alexander's decision to reject Klingon culture. The twist was pretty audacious to the point where it could have felt like the writers pulling stuff out of their arses but it worked for me. Didn't like the plot about finding the Durex Sisters as much because, again, it felt like a retread of already-dull material.

So it's not an especially thrilling episode and, without knowing the twist, it feels like a slog until the final act, but... yeah, it's alright. Not much else to say about it. 4/10



We're really getting near the end now. Going to have an absolute field day compiling all mine and daf's ratings for the entire show!

Zero Gravitas

This one dripped out of my ears at some point too, the only part I had a vague recollection of was the quark scene, but it has a lot going against it other than the entire premise being mental.

- It's a klingon episode.
- it has the worst Alexander actor in it.
- It dredges up some weird guilt for not saving your father out of nowhere which is a little dark - textually empire destroying and grandfather paradox suicide inspiring in extremity, but it just fizzles out.

It's pfffft as a time travel story too as there's none if the usual paradox and mystery it's klingon infighting with a poorly slapped on time travel framing.

Perfectly reasonable to wall this one off.

daf

172 | "First Born"



Alexander's Stab-Time Banned

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Highlights
• The Pink Ball Shirt-Splat Sketch
• Bellowing Bat'leth Ballet Festival
• Scrumptious Street-worm Scoff-bag
• Molor's Mummified Head Box
• Alexander Assasination Ambush
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other Bits :
• . . . and introducing Quark!!
• Eye-Boggling Klingon Boob-Hole
• Gorta the Dopterian's Tin-cup Toss-off Sketch
• Rikers's Cunning Anjoran Bio-mimetic Gel Trade Trick
• The Time-travelling Knife Twist
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Score :

Blumf

So, when Worf goes down to the Yankee Candle store to stock up on ceremonial tea lights, what scent does he go for? I reckon Fluffy Towels is the most honourable.



Seems pretty canonical that within about 40 years, in universe, time travel tech starts getting practical for the Federation and other similar groups (end of Voyager matches this too). I wonder if this is why they've tended to avoid post-TNG era settings (Picard is NOT Trek!!!) and gone with prequels. Ain't nobody wants to deal with all that time travel shit.

MojoJojo

I found this a right boring slog. Worf annoyed me - he was grumpy even when Alexander was enjoying Klingon Culture. The time travel stuff really felt like an arse pull - K'mtar is a side character until that scene, simply appearing to tell Worf that Alexander needs to Klingon up and point him after the sisters.

I've been trying to work out what's wrong with this season. I think it's very notable that the Enterprise itself doesn't do anything in most of the episodes. It really is just a cruise ship at this point.

elliszeroed

I wish Alexander had been able to go his own way, rather than the shite they did to him in DS9. He could have become a great Klingon scholar, historian, scientist, botanist, whatever, but instead he becomes a joke.

MojoJojo

Yeah. I can see why the writers wanted to add something other than another brilliantly competent friendly character, and with Worf's shitty parenting, ship comedy mascot makes sense, but it still feels a bit cruel.

Lemming

Quote from: Blumf on July 07, 2022, 11:13:01 AMSo, when Worf goes down to the Yankee Candle store to stock up on ceremonial tea lights, what scent does he go for? I reckon Fluffy Towels is the most honourable.


Quote from: MojoJojo on July 07, 2022, 11:21:54 AMI've been trying to work out what's wrong with this season. I think it's very notable that the Enterprise itself doesn't do anything in most of the episodes. It really is just a cruise ship at this point.
There's no sense of place either. It's always been a bit of an issue in Star Trek right back to TOS - are they deep into the unexplored frontier, or are they within walking distance of a Federation starbase, as the plot demands? - but it's especially bad in latter-era TNG. They seem to just be flying around Federation space in a circle with almost nothing happening.

In TOS and early TNG, they at least had a go at portraying space as some kind of cosmic horror show filled with the ruins of fallen empires, deathly anomalies, demented godlike creatures, psychedelic nightmares and all that. Voyager did a pretty good job too IMO at giving the Delta Quadrant a distinctive feel (a weird collage of casino planets and con artists and technological backwaters). By this point in TNG, though, the galaxy is just an area the size of a football field filled with people we've already met and places we've already visited.

elliszeroed

And what is unexplored? The Federation seems hemmed in on all sides by other races, so they exploring their own territory or what?

Lemming

I've always wondered that. They're usually said to be flying around in the Alpha Quadrant, but they're able to visit the Klingon homeworld on a whim, which is apparently in the Beta Quadrant. That always puzzled me about Voyager too - they measure the length/time of their trip home by their proximity to the Alpha Quadrant, but all they've really got to do is go to Beta Quadrant which is adjacent to them and from there contact the Romulans or Klingons, who can get them to Earth in like five seconds judging by how easily and frequently the Enterprise-D visits there.

I suppose the Federation could have just done a really lax job of checking out their own space before now, staking claims to vast areas of space without fully exploring them, and they sometimes deign to send the Enterprise to go see if there's anything actually in those places. Or maybe there's a huge unexplored region of the Alpha Quadrant that's not officially claimed by anyone yet.

Blumf

Quote from: elliszeroed on July 07, 2022, 05:48:25 PMAnd what is unexplored? The Federation seems hemmed in on all sides by other races, so they exploring their own territory or what?

Yes.

First off, the Ent-D is more of a diplomatic "look how awesome the Fed is" type ship, not a deep space exploration vessel. So it's primary job is to mooch around known space dealing with political stuff. They're not on a "five year mission" like TOS.

Second, space is big, really big, so even deep within Federation territory there's still going to be lots of barely looked at star systems dotted about. Not to mention pre-warp cultures who are being tiptoed around, until Riker stops off to get his dick wet.

There could be a case for a TNG continuation that was more of a long running political drama. DS9 sorta did that, and all the Klingon stuff in TNG (that I seem to be alone in liking) hinted at it, but a more focused Picard as diplomat serial type thing would have been nice.

Wonderful Butternut

Quote from: Lemming on July 07, 2022, 04:04:53 AM- Later, K'mtar tells Worf that Kurn has no male heir (Klingon slang for "secretly gay") and thus expects Alexander to take over as the leader of the House of Mogh. I don't know if that's because of sexist horseshit, or if there are literally just no heirs at all in the House of Mogh, given that the only members are Worf, Alexander, Kurn, and, uh, Jeremy Aster.

"House of Quark" reveals that a woman cannot lead a Klingon Great House unless there are 'exceptional circumstances'. The Duras Sisters having to unearth Duras' illegitimate son to challenge for the Chancellorship does seem to back that up.  Do Azetbur in The Undiscovered Country and (vomit) L'Rell from Discovery contradict this? It's not actually stated if they led their houses, and there were certainly 'exceptional circumstances' in how they became Chancellor.

But there does seem to be no one in the House of Mogh anyway. Not sure how it's described as a 'Great House' with only two adult members in it, one of whom is an effective absentee from Klingon society.


Also RE: The Duras Sisters, surely the Feds and the Klingons having had a peace treaty since the 2290s and generally appearing to be good enough chums for the most part in TNG have some sort of mutual extradition treaty? Yet the Duras Sisters are captured by the Enterprise here and not turned over to Klingon authorities. Ditto when they visited DS9 (an early season 1 episode where they sell some Bajoran dude stuff he can use to blow the wormhole up). Is it because their 'crime' is seen as political or something?

Either way, I hope that doesn't come back to bite Riker. Like imagine if they helped some madman develop a trilithium weapon and destroyed the Enterprise in a very convoluted manner. That'd be unfortunate.


Lastly in Star Trek Online, Alexander is calling himself K'mtar by 2409 and tries to warn Worf that he's going to be assassinated. Worf of course, being Worf, doesn't listen to him until the heir to the House of Martok (Drex' son - anyone remember Drex? Martok's little shit son?) is bumped off. I guess he forgot about "K'mtar" coming back in time cos Worf was assassinated. In the end Alexander pushes Worf out of the way of the knife/disruptor (can't remember which) and dies instead.

Johnny Textface


Lemming

Quote from: Johnny Textface on July 07, 2022, 11:27:07 PMOhh do we have our next thread?

I'm up for it if anyone else is! Though with a bit of a break first to avoid CRIPPLING TREK FATIGUE.