RTD back for Doctor Who

[Replies From View]

Besides, amongst all the other ponderings there's a suggestion that the Doctor himself is the hybrid because he might be half human.

There's too much floating around, it's told rather than shown, and none of it settles.  It's like when you visit the chicken farm for some Wagner Speckled Yolks, and all you get instead is the shop owner puffing a bag around the place getting chicken feathers all up into your lungs.

[H-O-W-L]

The Hybrid should've been Rusty. Time Lord knowledge + intellect + the Doc's anger at the Daleks + the shell and anger and EXTERMINATE rage of a Dalek.

EDIT:

Honestly just try and change my mind that Rusty was  a cool concept. Such a waste that he was used for nothing more than to be an exposition pepperpot in the Christmas Special and forgotten.

[mjwilson]

There's no reason why the hybrid had to be the companion + Doctor.  It wasn't a good idea in the first place.  There's not enough to go on because Clara was too thinly drawn, for a start.  But also she wasn't special in the context of all the other companions the Doctor has had.

So I think the intention of the season is that she goes further than any other companion does, rathar than that she is more special in some way. She adopts the role of the Doctor, she even usurps him in the title sequence for an episode. Then the Doctor goes further than he ever has before in trying to get her back.

(I'm somewhat playing devil's advocate here, I think it is a bit wobbly, just trying to lay out what I think the aim was.)

[Replies From View]

The ways she supposedly goes further aren't shown, if she does.  She calls herself the Doctor in one episode and her eyes are put in the titles for it, but you would need to tell me what she did that nobody else ever did, apart from the singular time she entered the Doctor's time stream so we'd see Classic Doctors in the lead up to the 50th.  The Raven episode where she arrogantly makes a decision the Doctor can't fix and it ends up killing her?  Well Tegan did her own thing all the time too.

How does she "go further"?  And when the Doctor goes further to save her, well that's somewhat unearned in my view.  It feels like he doesn't want to be responsible for his companion dying, but the risks he'll take are absurd because Clara didn't do more than anyone before her.

[mjwilson]

The ways she supposedly goes further aren't shown, if she does.  She calls herself the Doctor in one episode and her eyes are put in the titles for it, but you would need to tell me what she did that nobody else ever did, apart from the singular time she entered the Doctor's time stream so we'd see Classic Doctors in the lead up to the 50th.  The Raven episode where she arrogantly makes a decision the Doctor can't fix and it ends up killing her?  Well Tegan did her own thing all the time too.

How does she "go further"?  And when the Doctor goes further to save her, well that's somewhat unearned in my view.  It feels like he doesn't want to be responsible for his companion dying, but the risks he'll take are absurd because Clara didn't do more than anyone before her.

I was thinking of the raven episode, where she doesn't just make a stupid decision, she does it because she thinks she can be the Doctor. And yeah, her over-confidence gets her killed, but she does kind of end up as the Doctor, travelling around in a TARDIS with a companion.

[Replies From View]

What did Gallifrey fear about the hybrid of Doctor-Clara and what did it end up doing that the prophesy was so anxious about?

See, if I was on Gallifrey I'd probably think it was done and dusted with the Time War.  There's a prophesy about Gallifrey being wiped out by a hybrid that may or may not involve the Daleks and the/some Time Lords fucking everything up, together.

Ok and that was prophesising the Time War correct?

No I suspect it is still due.  You know when the Doctor teams up with a companion and they go a bit outrageous together?

Yeah.

Well I have in mind that, except a little bit more arrogant than usual.

[mjwilson]

Doesn't the Doctor talk about being willing to break the web of time in order to save Clara? I think that's supposed to be the prophecied threat.

(Again I don't think this is all watertight, I had to ignore Romana in order to say that Clara is the first companion to act as the Doctor.)

[Replies From View]

Yeah he does.  Something like that, and unfortunately it feels unearned.  He's never done that for a companion before and it feels wrong precisely because Clara never reached the dizzying heights that we're being told she reached.

[Replies From View]

I'm pretty sure the history of the show - especially the 1960s - is scattered with companions saying "what would the Doctor do?" and doing that thing.  The only difference is that Clara doesn't say "what would the Doctor do?" - she just does the thing.

I get Victoria and Zoe mixed up, but I'm pretty sure you could make a strong case for their independent natures being the main reason for the Doctor surviving a lot of the time and the day being saved.  There's a lot more nuance at work than simply "behaving like the Doctor" or whatever.  Ultimately if the hybrid is about the Doctor and Clara it's just about the Doctor and his companion taking a lot of risks, which is pretty rubbish however you look at it.  The Doctor's insane actions to save her are the only indication that this is more than it is, and those feel flown in quite out of nowhere.

[daf]

I get Victoria and Zoe mixed up, but I'm pretty sure you could make a strong case for their independent natures being the main reason for the Doctor surviving a lot of the time and the day being saved.

Victoria = the Victorian one
Zoe = Space Boffin (glittery catsuit)

Don't think Victoria was very independent - were you thinking of Vicki (Time Meddler, The Romans)?

[Replies From View]

Victoria = the Victorian one
Zoe = Space Boffin (glittery catsuit)

Don't think Victoria was very independent - were you thinking of Vicki (Time Meddler, The Romans)?

It would have been Zoe I was thinking of.  I just mix up Zoe and Victoria in my memory due to facial recognition issues, the fact they both have dark hair and they're both with Troughton and Jamie.

I have a simple brain.


But yeah, Zoe.  There's a lovely moment in The Invasion, I think it is, when she makes an AI self destruct for her own amusement.  Love it.

[Midas]

couldn't the time lords use their time machines to find out specifically what the prophecy is prophecising

[Replies From View]

couldn't the time lords use their time machines to find out specifically what the prophecy is prophecising

Probably can't manage

[Midas]

That "Cybus Industries" website now has this video on the front page.  Not sure if it's part of an official ARG or just a teaser for a fan-film but it looks quite amateurish to me. Switched it off after a few seconds.

[Alberon]

It's some fan effort for sure.

[BritishHobo]

Yeah later on in the video they discuss a dead Cybus Industry CEO called 'Elon Magpie' and they just fully use Elon Musk's face.

[H-O-W-L]

Looks like utter shit.

[Bad Ambassador]

I bet its for some GB News-level satirical bullshit from Ian Levine.

[McDead]

I bet its for some GB News-level satirical bullshit from Ian Levine.

I sincerely hope so.

[Midas]

There's loads of other shite linked to it on Twitter apparently. Coded messages and stuff. Arsed, cigs.

But look at this "leaked CCTV image"...

Spoiler alert

haha

[close]

[thr0b]

Aye, totally a fan thing. Even the website is registered with Namecheap.

[Billy]

Fascinating to hear from various friends and work colleagues (mostly 1990s-born) an almost identical journey with the show, they all started getting into it when it returned with Eccleston, it became a must-watch with Tennant, and most stuck it out throughout Smith and have fond memories of his era at first but admit that it started fading for them by about S6, the Van Gogh episode is the last one that seems universally remembered. Virtually none of them give a shit about Capaldi onwards except for a few who watched his first couple of episodes but quickly sacked it off, it really is a show that people remember fondly from their childhood/teen years that has no connection to them anymore.

And, admittedly, I relate to them - between 2010 and '14 it slowly turned from still the biggest thing on TV (S5) to something I stuck with despite increasing disappointment (S6-7) to just tuning out early in S8 and rarely returning. I've seen about four episodes in the last seven years - the Xmas 2015 one, the last Capaldi, the first Whittaker and the one that introduced Ruth, and while the very final one of those almost got me interested again nothing quite's returned it to its noughties/early 2010s revived heyday. Really hoping next year is a special one and helps rescue it from irrelevance for the Tennant generation.

[Mister Six]

That's why it needs a regular slot and a yearly schedule. It has to be there for everyone's childhood. It's perfectly natural for most people to drop it as they grow older (unless they're weird balding nerds like us, of course), but it needs to be there for the next generation, and for those who are just having kids now and want to share it with them.

[purlieu]

It's a shame that Capaldi's best series was his last. Imagine if he'd opened with series 10!

My experience was occasionally tuning in and cringing throughout series 1-3, eventually picking it up properly in series 4, watching excitedly for 5 and 6, not having a telly so binging 7 on DVD, Day of the Doctor being An Event, then losing interest in Capaldi's era so much that I almost didn't bother with The Pilot. Then became an avid fan again, that began to fade midway through Jodie's first series, and from midway through her second I ended up trawling through them several months late. And then approaching RTD's new era with a mixture of excitement (talent!) and trepidation (I don't especially like his previous run).

[superthunderstingcar]

Some similar stories to my own here, although I'm a bit older and can remember the '80s Doctors.

For the new series, seasons 1-5 were 'event' television, always watched on broadcast if at all possible, usually as a group of friends. Then at some point over the course of season 6 it slipped into 'catch up on the iPlayer' and I had friends who had stopped watching by The Wedding of River Song.

Season 7 contains the first episodes of the new series that I have never bothered to seek out to watch (The Angels Take Manhattan and The Snowmen) because I had had enough by that point, and it was only the 50th anniversary that dragged me back in, Michael Corleone-style.

The Day of the Doctor was amazing, as were the surrounding 50th anniversary events, and then things pretty much immediately went back to shit with The Time of the Doctor. Season 8 was appalling, and Death in Heaven so atrociously bad that I didn't watch another Capaldi-era episode until Twice Upon A Time, and that was only because it was a Christmas special that my family was watching.

I watched most (though not all) of Whitaker's first season. It was clear pretty quickly that the worst episodes were all written by Chris Chibnall, and I found that I simply could not be bothered catching up on the ones I'd missed on the iPlayer. I remain a massive fan of the original series, but the new series just wasn't for me any more, if it ever really had been. Resolution is the newest Doctor Who TV story that I have seen.

I doubt I will ever be a regular viewer of Doctor Who again. If RTD (or whoever) writes a story that sounds intriguing, or gets good reviews, I can always fire up the iPlayer and seek it out. I have become a casual.

[Mister Six]

People with dim memories of the RTD days are welcome to join in the rewatch thread, where several posters (myself included) have found a lot of his episodes more favourable this time around.

We're currently doing Boom Town (series 1, episode 11) but people are welcome to talk about any of the preceding episodes as they like.

[BritishHobo]

I've said it over in the rewatch thread but I came aboard during series 3, having been a very cool and impressive boy by refusing to watch the popular show until then. I then got a bit obsessed during 3, 4 and the specials, and started watching through Classic Who, but I still felt a little out of step with RTD's era in being a latecomer. As Mister Six has said above, I've found a renewed love for RTD's era on the rewatch, but at the time I was still a bit pathetically nervous about liking the show, and so leaned into the flaws.

Series 5 is the first time I really felt 'this is my Doctor and this is my show', and it remains a perfect series to me. That pure passion carried me through the amazing series 6 until I collided with the brick wall of the finale, and all my enthusiasm disappeared immediately. Slogged through series 7 (kept going by the odd gem), and was then MASSIVELY won back by the 50th and Smith's last episode.

I had so much hype for Capaldi but I struggled hugely with series 8. Series 9 was a bit better, enough to keep me going through the Christmas specials (which grew on me) to series 10, which absolutely blew me away, and rivals series 5 for my favourite.

God it breaks my heart to say it, but all of Chibnall's series have been shit. I think my overdramatic exhaustion during some of Moffat's stuff, swinging to the other extreme of absurd love, has just cemented in me to keep on watching despite hating it, convinced it will eventually get good again. Although that said, if this RTD return hadn't happened, and Chibnall was carrying on with a new series next year and no end in sight, I think that would probably have really tested that claim. I can't really imagine I would have watched another whole series; I might have started and then slowly fallen behind and never caught up.

[McDead]

As others have said, I've basically abandoned the series at this point. I started to check out during Moffat's era, cringed through that stupid episode with the forest and the tigers, couldn't face the moon egg one, watched The Orient Express one cos Frank Skinner was in it, but really had just come to hate Moffat's writing. Loved Day of the Doctor, what an absolute joy. Moffat and his team really delivered the goods there, levels of excitement were extraordinary. Everything came together so perfectly - the War Doctor, Paul McGann, the Fiveish Doctors - you'd think it had all been the product of some seamless plan. But it wasn't! Amazing.

Watched two episodes of the Whittaker/Chibnall run before realising that Chibnall had nothing like the skill necessary to carry a show like this, and that his vision for the character was piss thin. I didn't like Moffat's thinking, but at least he WAS thinking. Haven't watched any since and was basically just waiting to see who the new showrunner would be. Was hoping for someone of the same stature in TV as RTD (Sally Wainwright was mentioned at one point) and, well, here we are. I'm now excited but cautiously so, as some of Davies' prior creative decisions were utterly maddening.

[H-O-W-L]

I really implore anyone who dropped off during Capaldi to watch Series 10, his final series. It's honestly very good IMO, and if you can't stomach all of it, please, at least watch World Enough and Time and The Doctor Falls, as I feel they're probably the two best episodes Moffat wrote post-5-- and my personal favorite episodes he's ever written. Ontop of that, the mad bastard managed to make the Cybermen a mixture of scary and sad again after RTD basically fucked them up forever.

[Mister Six]

I'd say also watch the first episode of the season, as it sets up some stuff that's paid off right at the end.

But TBH except for the two episodes immediately following Extremis, every episode is at least watchable, if not flawless.