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March 29, 2024, 08:20:29 AM

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Stranger Things S4

Started by Bad Ambassador, May 26, 2022, 02:23:37 PM

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Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Could somebody please explain to me why the Russians are involved in it again? I can't be arsed rewatching prior seasons to find out. I thought it was originally an American experiment with telekinetic/psychic children.

C_Larence

#31
Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on June 03, 2022, 02:41:26 PMCould somebody please explain to me why the Russians are involved in it again? I can't be arsed rewatching prior seasons to find out. I thought it was originally an American experiment with telekinetic/psychic children.

There was a Soviet presence in S3 as they were trying to get some shit from under the mall in Hawkins, fucked if I can remember what though. At the end of the season Hopper went through a portal into Russia. I think they were messing about with the upside down in an attempt to militarise the ghoulies.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Cheers. I don't think it's the sort of show where you have to understand absolutely everything that's going on anyway. They'll explain it all by the end I imagine.

Pink Gregory

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on June 03, 2022, 02:41:26 PMCould somebody please explain to me why the Russians are involved in it again? I can't be arsed rewatching prior seasons to find out. I thought it was originally an American experiment with telekinetic/psychic children.

I would assume 'because it's an 80s movie reference.'  I mean they are given plot reasons but I think it's because they had to get an 80s red scare thing in there somewhere.  I mean with the rooskie assassin in S3 you had a Terminator and an evil Russian all in one package.

bomb_dog

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on June 03, 2022, 02:58:18 PMThey'll explain it all by the end I imagine.

Ah, classic assumption that everything is written out for the 'whole story'... I thought the par these days is to write enough for a series, then panic when it gets recommissioned, then either a) get cancelled mid-series and breathe a sigh of relief you don't have to come up with anything coherent or satisfying, or b) go all cop-out avant-garde at the end, frustrating people who've got invested in the whole thing and expected a proper beginning, middle and end.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

What I think has happened:

American experiment in Hawkins with psychic children

A wormhole is inadvertently opened to upside down world, probably by Eleven

Experiment shut down or goes tits up, children escape

Russians get wind of it, secretly build base in Hawkins to study and exploit the upside down world

There's probably a wiki out there somewhere that would explain it, but where's the fun in that?

Pink Gregory

#36
Again, I like the (not totally original) ideas that they're going for here, damaged people being imperilled and thus everyone being at risk, but...
Spoiler alert
it's just a meat man, a boring, glistening meat man
[close]

Worst scenes in the whole thing.

Also just had the "Hawkins is in the eye of the storm" speech and it...kinda sucked?  Just put a movie trailer in the middle of this series that has generally quite good dialogue and character work.  A real misstep of pacing I think.

Other than that, it's quite engaging.

Peabo Bryson Is Not Dead

Waiting for the July episodes, and after reading bits and pieces from the actors and The Duffers about how there is no twist, I think that is the twist... To be delivered in the very final frame.

It is so homage full, so meta and over laden with pop culture in places, that at the end of ST5, I swear the camera is going to pull out from a D&D game the main 4 protagonists are playing as adults. It's biggest nod is going to be to Stephen King's IT.

I'd love to be very wrong though.

Ant Farm Keyboard

Season 4 so far is like eating at a buffet, writing-wise. You pick one main course, but you get tempted over and over again with side dishes, you think of a sauce that could go with them, and ultimately you realize that you have forgotten the main course.

The worst sequence so far in the season was in episode four, when they visit the Binghams at Salk Lake City to ask Suzie to hack into a system, where the kids are all busy putting together an amateur horror movie.

Spoiler alert
Instead of paying tribute to the films and productions that had inspired them, the Duffer brothers seem to describe their own childhood, and how they started making movies while they were kids, even if there's nothing particular to their story. No broken family (like Spielberg or even JJ Abrams remember), just some middle class people who are enthusiastic or inventive and who get idealized in an overlong sequence that has very little incidence to the plot of the show. Honestly, the Monkey Massacre Productions logo is more than enough to understand where the guys come from.
[close]

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

One thing I've noticed about the show that marks it out as being from "current year" as opposed to the era that it's set in is how accepting people are of gay people. Robin is lesbian, and it's hinted at that Will is gay as well. Their friends are all fine with this, but I'm afraid that in the vast majority of cases, in the mid 80's this would get you ostracised from your peer group, and likely the entire school too. I'm not saying that's right, but that's just the way it was back then, especially in a small town. If you were gay, you'd want to keep it quiet, until you got to college or university.

jobotic

Quote from: AsparagusTrevor on May 27, 2022, 09:04:29 PMI watched the first episode and it made me realise I couldn't remember much of what happened in seasons 1-3 (even with the recap) and probably should've done a rewatch in the 3 year gap. Oh well.

Exactly the same for me. I think I've also been remembering bits that were actually from I Am Not Okay With This, that I watched in between, as well which doesn't help.

Pink Gregory

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on June 04, 2022, 10:45:23 AMOne thing I've noticed about the show that marks it out as being from "current year" as opposed to the era that it's set in is how accepting people are of gay people. Robin is lesbian, and it's hinted at that Will is gay as well. Their friends are all fine with this, but I'm afraid that in the vast majority of cases, in the mid 80's this would get you ostracised from your peer group, and likely the entire school too. I'm not saying that's right, but that's just the way it was back then, especially in a small town. If you were gay, you'd want to keep it quiet, until you got to college or university.

Is Robin really out though?  She is to her friends (or at least to Steve) and she is after someone else in the band, but she only tells Steve that.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

I don't think either of them are fully out, but I get the feeling that somebody in their peer group would blab to the outer world. Steve might, for example, tell his friends about the lesbian he's matey with over a few beers, and then it would be all over for her.

Butchers Blind

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on June 04, 2022, 11:10:24 AMI don't think either of them are fully out, but I get the feeling that somebody in their peer group would blab to the outer world. Steve might, for example, tell his friends about the lesbian he's matey with over a few beers, and then it would be all over for her.

Steve has no friends apart from that girl and a... how old are those kids supposed to be now?

BritishHobo

Yeah I think there's a few moments where Steve has to lie about why he and Robin aren't together, so that Nancy and Dustin don't realise it's because of her sexuality. I quite liked that aspect of it because they didn't make a huge deal out of it, it felt quite subtle in the dialogue. My millenial viewpoint was to assume they all knew she was gay, until Dustin asked why they haven't got together yet.

Ant Farm Keyboard

The way they handle Robin's sexuality is quite appropriate, without the emphasis that would make her "the gay one" (just like the main characters were still very sketchy in season one).

The vendetta against D&D players sounds quite out of place. It takes one segment in the news to make them an oppressed minority, which doesn't hold water. Heavy metal would make a much more likely target for the media at the time, and racism, reliable and untimely as it is in American society, is almost totally absent from such a show.

Dex Sawash


TBF, d&d nerds were uncoolest of uncool outcasts. D&D did draw some players from varied nerdoms and cooldoms in my usa 80s experience which combined with the show's supernatural shit works for me that these kids lean into the problems to solve.

Vitamin C

The Satanic panic storyline is great and very much of the era. Good point about metal, I was kind of hoping we would see Eddie spinning a record backwards just to nail it down in an amusing way, but I also think D&D works for this. It's already established in the show so makes sense to use it in this way.

Regarding the gay storylines, there is an episode, I think the very first one in season 1, where Joyce tells Hopper people have been calling Will "a fag". So they don't always shy away from non-acceptance, but I do agree that Steve took Robin's coming out to him too much in his stride for someone who was just a jock five minutes ago.

Pink Gregory

Reveals are never as good as the mysteries, are they?

Also I feel like someone asked the writer's room what the worst thing they could think of and someone was just shouting
Spoiler alert
baby on fire!  BABY ON FIRE!
[close]


PlanktonSideburns

Fucking loved the bit in the mad cunts house where they jump cut to a stuffed wildcat and the soundtrack did like a spooky, echoey ROOOOAR sound, perhaps to emphasise that it's a big cat, or perhaps for a second make you think it was an ALIVE wildcat, jumping towards the camera at YOU

Fast forwarding the Russian bits now, giving them more of a buster keaton quality. Would recommend

Dex Sawash

Quote from: Pink Gregory on June 05, 2022, 08:23:03 PMAlso I feel like someone asked the writer's room what the worst thing they could think of and someone was just shouting
Spoiler alert
baby on fire!  BABY ON FIRE!
[close]



BOOM BOOM


RDRR

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on June 04, 2022, 10:45:23 AMOne thing I've noticed about the show that marks it out as being from "current year" as opposed to the era that it's set in is how accepting people are of gay people. Robin is lesbian, and it's hinted at that Will is gay as well. Their friends are all fine with this, but I'm afraid that in the vast majority of cases, in the mid 80's this would get you ostracised from your peer group, and likely the entire school too. I'm not saying that's right, but that's just the way it was back then, especially in a small town. If you were gay, you'd want to keep it quiet, until you got to college or university.

Seen lots of threads on twitter (without looking for them/anything stranger things related) discussing how implying characters are gay without addressing it head-on is offensive, regressive, etc. Actually I'm not sure what the main criticisms are, but it's definitely Bad.

I don't feel I'm the show's biggest fan but I personally (cis-het white male etc) felt it handled the situation fairly adeptly by acknowledging gay people existed in that era without having them explicitly come out, which, A) would have been very intimidating, making it not unreasonable that they would wrestle with it internally, and B) would then have to become a whole storyline that the show just doesn't have the space for. I think it's fair to say that's not what the show is about.


Elderly Sumo Prophecy

To be honest, the real reason I want them to acknowledge it is probably because I want to see Robin kiss a girl so I can get cheap thrills off it.

Ant Farm Keyboard

Quote from: RDRR on June 06, 2022, 01:40:55 AMSeen lots of threads on twitter (without looking for them/anything stranger things related) discussing how implying characters are gay without addressing it head-on is offensive, regressive, etc. Actually I'm not sure what the main criticisms are, but it's definitely Bad.

That's virtue-signalling on Twitter for you. When something could be more progressive, it should be more progressive. That's a "kids" show, and regarding LGBTQ issues, it does a much better job than Disney and their blink-or-you-miss-it references that can be easily censored in some foreign markets. We had a couple of reminders in season 4 that Robin wasn't straight and was still mostly closeted even to some of her friends, but her sexual inclinations are simply part of who she is, and not the most important thing about her.

Yet, the depiction of Robin or Will in Stranger Things is exactly what the law that was lately passed in Florida tries to prevent. By affirming that an important character on a "kids show" is a lesbian, that it's already part of her identity, even if she's only a minor, the show could be "accused" of normalizing homosexuality to teenagers and other vulnerable crowds. A law that can be so much invasive that even Disney, which had taken a backseat to it, was ultimately involved and had to take a strong stance against it.

BritishHobo

I think from what I've read, people's problem is more with Will than Robin, in that the creators and actor have talked about his character as if they've done something really special by leaving it up to the viewer to accept that he could well be gay. I think I agree with them that that's just not good enough, given what other shows do, and what they've done with Robin. The problem is less that they haven't made him openly gay, and more that they're celebrating it interviews when, well, they've not really done anything.

Pete23

Will's barely been in ST4, and when he has he's been 2 dimensional at best. I wouldn't bother criticising how his his sexuality has been portrayed when he's barely a step up from a shop dummy most of the time.

BritishHobo

That's what I'm saying though. It's not about how it's been portrayed, it's more about them discussing it in interviews as if it has been portrayed.

The biggest crime with Will is how they kept having him just stare on in blank horror as Eleven repeatedly gets the shit kicked out of her by her bullies. This cunt's been to the Upside Down and defeated monsters but he can't muster up the energy to bother standing up for his sister-friend?

Pete23

Agree, it's a cheek to say they've portrayed anything with Will when he's barely there. I didn't get the way Mike reacted either - he watched them circle her, abuse her and throw the milkshake, then when she fights back he has a go at her. As you say, with what they've been through you'd expect them to go up against the bullies without a thought. I think all the kids in LA have been treated very shoddily by the screenwriters to the point where I don't care about any of them. I'm team Dustin, Steve and Robin all the way.

BritishHobo

I was waiting for it to be part of the character development - Eleven to shout at Will and ask why he hasn't had her back, for example. A bit of drama over whether his lack of concern comes from jealousy over Mike. But it feels like it didn't even occur to the creators that his blank inaction is in any way a concern.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Would you even get taken to one of these juvenile hall things for rollerskating someone? It seems like such a relatively minor offence that I thought you'd spend a night in the cells before being let out with maybe a court date to attend in future.