"The 100 Most Middling Albums Of All Time!"

[Paaaaul]

Holland - the Beach Boys, has it's moments (sail on sailor...err I think there's another good one) but not as good as some fans would have you believe.

No, give it a few more "spins". It's a real grower.
M.I.U. is the Beach Boys' middling album. Just passes over you like lukewarm water.

[mayer]

I'm listening to Rubber Soul right now. Jesus buggering Christ, on what planet is this a middling album? I mean, 'The Word' alone is better than most bands' entire careers.

Weirdly, today I bought that Nik Cohn book (Music Zone, Manchester Market St. 97 pence) and had a scan through it, he says this, and he's pretty much written what I think.

Musically, this was the subtlest and most complex thing they'd done and lots of it was excellent, Drive My Car and Girl and You Won't See Me, but there were also danger signals, the beat had softened and the lyrics showed traces of fake significance. One song at least, The Word, was utter foolishness, and hardly anything had the raw energy of their earlier work, there was nothing as good as I Saw Her Standing There or I'm A Loser. Simply, the Beatles were softening up.

He then proceeds to insult the LP when they grabbed that energy back and combined it with the good bits of Rubber Soul, dissing its finest moment Tommorow Never Knows. So he's wrong there!


But yeah, Rubber Soul... it's a clever clever album that just doesn't touch me emotionally at all.

[23 Daves]

Thinking of Beatles stuff, do the Anthologies count? Again it's that 'I see what they're going for but...' thing. Theres some fine stuff on there but they could be a lot better, and there's also a lot of pointless tedium

If you're counting them, then I'm in.  They could quite easily have cut all of them down to two single CD of listenable material, but then I suppose that would have angered the hardcore fans who really wanted to hear badly recorded out-takes of rehearsals and such.  I don't know.  A box set would have been better, with a "bonus disc" of the more lo-fi material.  Anything other than the set-up they had which is a most distracting listening experience, a combination of the wonderful, the half-realised and some downright farty old recordings.

I junked most of my Anthology CDs down a second hand record store not too long ago, and I only have volume 2 left, which is the one that fascinates me the most.

[Jemble Fred]

There were some regrettable tracks on the Anthology albums, mainly the ones that were chucked on because nobody agreed on the tracks that were SUPPOSED to be there. But they weren't too long, quite the opposite. I've heard at least one double album's worth of other bootlegs which are better than 3/4 of the tracks that made it onto the Anthology set.

What they really needed (apart from a fourth part – a trilogy of albums makes no sense) was the deaths of Macca, Ringo, George and Yoko, so the compilers could concentrate 100% on making good albums, not pleasing the surviving moptops.

[Ciarán2]

Those Nik Cohn comments up there. No way, just no...bloody...way. There isan idea that Where The Beatles Went Wrong was when they ditched the suits. I don't really hold with that. Cohn's remarks smack of that mindset. The Word is excellent, lyrically very simple and the verses are really interesting musically, I'd say. I don't think Rubber Soul represents a softening at all, it's sneery and affectionate in equal measure. A ruddy great album - up there with The Beatles' best.

Beach Boys middling albums: assuming it's not really fair game to have a pop at anything from before 1964-ish - the period up to "Summer Days and Summer Nights!" - I'd plump for "20/20". That's a bit cobbled together of course, moving on from that..."Carl and The Passions - So Tough" is downright poor, bar two decent tracks. "Here She Comes " doesn't sound like the Beach Boys at all. So I suppose I have to agree with M.I.U. Album as a middler. The very late 70s did throw up "My Diane" - the whole period is made worthwhile by that alone. I haven't heard anything from after "Keepin' The Summer Alive".

"Holland" is an excellent album. Apart from "Sail On Sailor", there's the actually really good "California Saga" and the superb "The Trader" (possibly Carl's very best Beach Boys moment of which there are many contenders).

[Jemble Fred]

I don't understand this 'softening' thing at all. 'Til There Was You' was rockin', but 'Helter Skelter' is soft?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I think Rubber Soul gets the hard/soft balance about right.

[sam and janet evening]

As far as I can recall, Nik Cohn's whole musical worldview revolves around the notion that Dylan, The Beatles and their ilk ruined pop music by making it all self-important and dreary. Whilst I (obviously) disagree, I do sympathise up to a point, there's a quality to pre-1966(ish) pop music that does sort of evaporate around then, still things move on I suppose. I don't like the idea that they (Beatles, Dylan etc) changed everything for the better though.

And in reply to some earlier posts;
Actually I think 'Infidels' is a downright BAD album. The production stinks, and spoils the few good songs ('Jokerman' mostly). Some really lazy lyrics and uninspired tunes too. I keep coming back to it in the hope that I'll 'get it' one day but...nah.
I have listened to 'Holland' many times, but I'll give it another go just for yoooouuu...'M.I.U' again, I think it's just a bad album. Although I do quite like their version of 'Come Go with me'.
Re:Anthologies
I would suggest that if they couldn't agree on which tracks to put on, it would have been better to release one double cd of 'good' off-cuts they could agree on rather than 3 (rather pricy) sets of padded out pointlessness. This is what bugs me about them really, they're not a total loss, but the air of 'We're taking lots of you're money for mostly second-rate tat' is inescapable.

[A Passing Turk Slipper]

The Beatles' middling albums are, for me, Beatles For Sale and Let It Be.

I dunno, I don't really think any of the albums could be classed as 'middling', maybe they are more middling than the others but still. Beatles For Sale is definitely not middling for me anyway, it's one of my favourites of the early albums. We've got No Reply, I'm a Loser, Baby's in Black, I'll Follow the Sun (written when McCartney was 15 apparently), Eight Days a Week, Every Little Thing, I Don't Want to Spoil the Party and one of my all time favourite songs What You're doing. That is definitely not middling, plus you've got some cracking covers like Rock and Roll Music and the medley. Let It Be for me can't be middling simply because of the presence of Two of Us which is so astoundingly good I want to play it over and over again for the rest of my life. As well as that you've got I Me Mine, Dig a Pony etc, songs that are great and totally do away with the myth that Let it Be is some shit fest.

[Pepotamo1985]

The Beatles' middling album is, for me, Beatles For Sale.

Out of all the pre-1966 Beatles albums, I've encountered the most joy while listening to this album. It's gloomy, introspective, and musically adventurous. Shame about Mr. Moonlight, though.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Before this becomes a Beatles thread completely, I just want to nominate The Contino Sessions by Death in Vegas.
It's definitely the wasted potential sort of middling, as there are lots of nice bits and it conjures up a nice atmosphere, but it just never really seems to ignite. Some of the tracks would simply have benefitted from an extra bit of tweaking in production to beef up the sound, while others could have done with the addition of lyrics or more instruments. Only the Iggy Pop single really stands out as something I'd choose to listen to, while the rest just floats by without really engaging.
The same could also go for Rythym and Stealth by Leftfield, all ambient boredom aside from the singles. To be fair though, the return period was almost up, so I took it back to the shop before I really had a chance to get to know it properly.

[Orias]

Before this becomes a Beatles thread completely, I just want to nominate The Contino Sessions by Death in Vegas.

A friend of mine commented that DiV start most of their tunes well, but never go anywhere with it.  I kind of agree, even the best DiV (Girls, Dirge, Dirt, Aisha, Rekkit) has the initial riff, but don't take it to the next level.

I'm in the "Let It Be" is middling camp too, agree with the negative comments for "Beatles For Sale" but how anyone can slate "Rubber Soul" on any level is beyond me.

I'll also nominate Underworld's "A Hundred Days Off" as "yeah, OK".  Not a bad album, just not as good as "DubNoBass", "Second Toughest" or "Beaucoup Fish".

Oh, and David Holmes' "Bow Down To The Exit Sign"

[mayer]

Hundred Days Off spanks SecondToughest and Beacoup Fish into a cocked hat for me.

I've read more of the Cohn book, the Dylan and Beach Boys chapters. He does seem to hate anything that isn't full on highschool pop. I can see his point, but he does take it too far.

Rubber Soul I can appreciate on an intellectual level, I know it's all very good. It just doesn't touch me at all, it's a feeling thing. I think Cohn does have something right, it sounds like it lacks genuine emotion to me, or at least fails to get any out of me.

Every New Order album bar Technique and Low-Life. Both Joy Division Albums.

[LadyDay]

Both Joy Division Albums.

Pfft, he'll never learn...

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Oddly enough, Tomorrow Never Knows has never done anything for me. I know it's an important track for reasons x, y and z, and I know it must have sounded incredible in '66, but...no. The Word brings me out in goosebumps though.

[Neil]

Oh, and David Holmes' "Bow Down To The Exit Sign"

Oh really?  I can't remember if I have heard it, but I certainly really enjoyed Let's Get Killed when it came out.  Must dig that out.  It was impossible to bump into anyone in Belfast who hadn't met David Holmes at one point, and without fail they all would say "oh, he's a right prick him."  I wouldn't mind geting that Out Of Sight soundtrack for a listen either, I remember taking a girl to that and being vaguely embarrassed at my pretty much constant foot-tapping.

[trotsky assortment]

Both Joy Division Albums.

Pfft, he'll never learn...

(trotters scribbles mayer from the metaphorical Christmas card list)  ;o)

[LadyDay]

Both Joy Division Albums.

Pfft, he'll never learn...

(trotters scribbles mayer from the metaphorical Christmas card list)  ;o)

You just know he's going to try and defend the indefensible now.......

[mayer]

Hehehhe. I listen to them loads. I adore Joy Division, and moments of both those albums can do amazing things to me, there's weak points all over them though, especially UP. I Remember Nothing? Candidate? A less-good version of She's Lost Control.

Closer's more consistent and the second side is just absurdly good, but Atrocity Exhibition and too much "okay" stuff on the first side to be one of the best LPs ever.

Middling is harsh perhaps, especially for Closer. Flawed is fairer.

[imitationleather]

I agree with mayer, although I wouldn't say I adore Joy Division.

Remember that old proverb: He who says Joy Division are better than NewOrder does not deserve ears.

Makes you think, eh?

[LadyDay]

Yes but SHE who says Joy Division are better than NewOrder is right.

[Orias]

Oh, and David Holmes' "Bow Down To The Exit Sign"

Oh really?  I can't remember if I have heard it, but I certainly really enjoyed Let's Get Killed when it came out.  Must dig that out.  It was impossible to bump into anyone in Belfast who hadn't met David Holmes at one point, and without fail they all would say "oh, he's a right prick him."  I wouldn't mind geting that Out Of Sight soundtrack for a listen either, I remember taking a girl to that and being vaguely embarrassed at my pretty much constant foot-tapping.

I've heard the "Holmes is a right prick" rumours too.  "Exit Sign" has a few highlights, "Compared To What", the excellent "69 Police" and "Hey Lisa" but the rest is filler.

I'd highly recommend the OST for "Out Of Sight".  For me, it's his finest work.  Fine crate digging and his originals have an infectiousness that he's recaptured only fleetingly since.  Film's rather good too, in my view.

And Mayer, I remembered you were a AHDO fan.  For me, Beaucoup Fish aces it out.  However, I maybe the only person who likes "Trim" on AHDO.  No accounting for taste, eh?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Can 'middling' ever be a good thing? I was thinking about the Slits' first album Cut, which is bitty and unfinished in some places, and overproduced to buggery in others - they were one of those bands that never really made The Great Album They Should Have Made. There are a few brilliant tracks on it, but most of them were superior (and completely different) in their Peel Session incarnations.

And yet...it's somehow a great album because of all that. The bittiness and unfinishedness gives it a certain identity that it wouldn't otherwise have. In a strange way, I'm glad they never made a 'perfect' Never Mind The Bollocks type album.

[mayer]

Cut may be messy in places, but I don't think it's "middling" in any way. Its flaws are part of its charm in a different way to the flaws on Unknown Pleasures, which I find detract from the LP as a whole.

[lankinpark]

Troublegum by Therapy?. It's a coherent and well-compiled album, it has a consistent sound and there are some truly great songs on it. But roughly half the songs are a bit lame (the longer ones, or maybe it just seems that way), and the quality really tails off at the halfway point so by the time you reach the end it's starting to feel really monotonous. Anger starts to feel forced after fourteen tracks. Infernal Love was so much better.

Oh, and every Pearl Jam album ever, except maybe the first one. Wonderful undistracting background noise, but I tried to listen to one once and lost fifty minutes.

[LadyDay]

I'd like to be able to say Pearl Jam were more of a live band but then the image of those shorts comes into your head.  (except for that MTV Awards performance with Neil Young)

[23 Daves]

I've heard the "Holmes is a right prick" rumours too.  

Off topic, but I've met him and he seemed like a perfectly OK sort of chap.  There you go.

[Phil_A]

Suede, "A New Morning".

Potential greatness seemingly scuppered by one bad decision after another.

The new song "Simon" was good enough to suggest the band had got some of their mojo back after the relative disappointment of Head Music. It was recorded with Sigur Ros's producer Ken Thomas. It was agreed that Thomas worked well with the band and should probably do the whole of the next LP.

On this note, Thomas was dumped and the band elected to use Beck's producer instead. This was a complete disaster for all concerned, the sessions were thrown out and the whole album was re-recorded in a matter of days with Stephen Street. Result: an album which was acceptable but almost entirely unremarkable. The kind of thing you'd listen to twice and then forget about forever.

[trotsky assortment]

Funny that.  I thought 'A New Morning' was vastly superior to 'Head Music'.  Singles aside, I found that album to be pretty much forgettable.

Actually, scratch that.  I suppose middling does make 'A New Morning' superior.  It's still middling if you compare it to the first three albums.

I'll get my coat.

[trotsky assortment]

Y'know, this thread may be very old, but I've just re-read it (it's boring at home today) and there's some great discussion within, especially for those who weren't around the first time.

I'd like to add a couple to the ever growing list that I never spotted whilst re-reading:

Cast - 'Mother Nature Calls'.  Like Suede's 'Head Music', the singles were decent, but I really can't make anything else stick in my head; 'All Change', on the other hand, is still spun semi regularly at Trotsky Towers and has aged remarkably well.

See also The Bluetones second album.  Nothing too upsetting; very little outstanding.  Strangely, when you think that's fairly common for second albums by British indie-pop bands, the second Supergrass album is cracking.  Far more consistency than 'I Should Coco'.