Nathan Barley

[Vince the Shirker]

I've only ever seen half an episode of this, but my understanding is that it predicted a world where idiots can go very high places by doing lowest-common-denominator shit just before YouTube was a thing, and had roles for Ben Whishaw and Benedict Cumberbatch before they hit the big-time.

But is it actually funny? Given its creators, you would expect so, but I've heard mixed things about it. What do you think? I may or may not watch the rest depending on the consensus.

[Stinky Lomax]

No, it's not funny. It's well-observed, and interesting for its predictive nature as you mentioned, but there aren't really any jokes and the nature of it means that you're almost exclusively spending time with lots of excruciatingly obnoxious characters. I've tried a bunch of times to get into it, because of the pedigree; I think I only made it past episode 2 once.

[Ignatius_S]

I've only ever seen half an episode of this, but my understanding is that it predicted a world where idiots can go very high places by doing lowest-common-denominator shit just before YouTube was a thing, and had roles for Ben Whishaw and Benedict Cumberbatch before they hit the big-time.

But is it actually funny? Given its creators, you would expect so, but I've heard mixed things about it. What do you think? I may or may not watch the rest depending on the consensus.

Comedy is a funny thing, it's subjective; opinions will vary.

Like so many discussion points here, there is no consensus. In this particular case, the series is a divisive one - you've already said you've heard mixed things.

Personally, I would say watch it and see what you think.

There has been a lot of discussion here including this month (in the Berry & Fulcher's Snuff Box) and if you're interested in what people think here, that would be a good place to start.

There are also some retrospective pieces, such in the Guardian, which are easy to find online and would say they're worth looking at.

One of the criticisms at the time was that the series was 'too late' largely because of the media targets in the series; for me, that wasn't the case. Now, it does look like it was prophetic - and the Guardian article considers this but there's been a *lot* of retrospective pieces as I say.

[Ferris]

It doesn't do a lot of set gags and some of the stuff is shit.

Example:

Spoiler alert

the treatment of Whishaw's character isn't really sure what it wants to be - are we supposed to be laughing at him getting electrocuted by Barley? It isn't funny because Barley is being a nasty cunt for no reason but it seems to be played for laughs. Are we supposed to laugh along and side with the bully during some particularly nasty bullying? Is this some kind of statement on modern content creation and if so, shouldn't the joke be on Barley? What is going on here??

[close]

But when it is funny, it is very funny. Nathan's stupid rap on the bus pops into my head all the time.

[Mr Trumpet]

I like Jonatton Yeah?

[purlieu]

It should have been a one off, 45 minute story as part of an anthology series. There's really not enough material to fill three hours. Honestly, the pilot says almost as much as needs to be said, and it just gets tiring after a while. Yeah, we get it, they're self-obsessed twats. It probably works better these days than it did at the time, I recall one of the criticisms being that, unless you've spent time in certain parts of East London, you probably haven't really stumbled across the world it's satirising, whereas in the years since, the whole 'hipster' thing has become much more easily recognisable.

I do think it's funny at times, usually when Nathan is showing himself up as the clueless prick he is, and when Dan is shown to be barely any better, but as Ferris says, the tone is so all over the shop that it feels like it's trying to have its cake and eat it: there are plenty of moments where it feels like you're meant to be laughing with the cunts.

Jonatton Yeah? is a really good character, one whose ambiguity actually works, he feels like the only genuinely intelligent human being in the whole show. And the Kevin Eldon scene is a nice break from the nastiness into a pretty trad comedy sketch, my favourite scene in the whole show.

[Des Wigwam]

I think I will revisit it. Have only seen it at the time of broadcast and remember being very excited it was going to be loads of TVGoHome Nathan Barley and then it was something else. In retrospect it does feel like it landed at the wrong time - too early and too late. But I won't be publishing that opinion just yet as it's been so long.

Only thing that sticks in my mind is Dan talking about people riding tiny bikes, and having a breakdown. Quite possibly that was the last bit of the series; a sort of "they looked from pig to man, and from man to pig ...." ending.

[TommyTurnips]

The whole geek pie haircut bit was good. Probably the best example I can think of desperately following what the protagonist thinks is a trend, even if it involves putting paint and sticking pot lids and brushes in your hair. Just looking an absolute idiot at the expense of being at the cutting edge of fashion.

[Pink Gregory]

only saw it once but it definitely has the feel of the intent of a Charlie Brooker led project with some Chris Morris-isms around the edges (such as the phrase 'Lorry Battery')

Granted it shows up Dan more than Nathan, who comes across as more of an innocent idiot than Dan's embittered superiority, but there's still a shade of Brooker's somewhat dated meanness about it, which isn't always that fun to revisit, even if it's at the heart of what I enjoy about his stuff.

Has Nicholas Burns had other lead roles that I'm unaware of?  He's also great in Uncle.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

i've always thought that the portrayal of aoade in this might be the closest to his real-world personality.

i have heard things

[Ferris]

He was working on something with Matt "super Hans" King wasn't he? Or have I confused him with someone else...

[Ignatius_S]

only saw it once but it definitely has the feel of the intent of a Charlie Brooker led project with some Chris Morris-isms around the edges (such as the phrase 'Lorry Battery')

Granted it shows up Dan more than Nathan, who comes across as more of an innocent idiot than Dan's embittered superiority, but there's still a shade of Brooker's somewhat dated meanness about it, which isn't always that fun to revisit, even if it's at the heart of what I enjoy about his stuff.

Has Nicholas Burns had other lead roles that I'm unaware of?  He's also great in Uncle.

Morris was the driving force behind the series and saw the potential of the character being with the series. Brooker has discussed this a fair bit - e.g. it was Morris that insisted that Nathan has to have some likability and it's been compared to him having a puppyish quality; Brooker said that this was absolutely correct.

The show was heavily workshopped by the cast, rather than being them working to a well defined script.

Burns starred in a ITV2 sitcom, No Heroics, about superheroes - fellow Barley co-star, Claire Keelan, also co-starred.

He was one of the main cast on BBC sketch, Man Stroke Woman, which was pretty terrible but it wasn't quite as bad as C4's rival, Spoons; not a high bar but it was something and Burns was probably the best performer in it.

Burns was in Benidorm for a long time, but otherwise, he's been in supporting roles. Personally, I've always found him good value for money and I thought he was a standout in Fear of Fanny, a not great drama  about Fanny Craddock, which was part of a stone-cold absolutely dreadful BBC4 season (one of which, about Steptoe and Son actually led to the BBC changing its policy) - Julia Davis played Fanny, Mark Gatiss played Johnnie - Burns played Craddock's son.

I did see him in a Tom Stoppard play and he was probably the standout for me - in the programme it said that he was going to be in a future Chris Morris, Box of Slice, which was the original name for Nathan Barley.

[markburgle]

The treatment of Whishaw's character isn't really sure what it wants to be - are we supposed to be laughing at him getting electrocuted by Barley? It isn't funny because Barley is being a nasty cunt for no reason but it seems to be played for laughs. Are we supposed to laugh along and side with the bully during some particularly nasty bullying? Is this some kind of statement on modern content creation and if so, shouldn't the joke be on Barley? What is going on here??

I thought that was pretty clear. Barley's does that stuff because he's a cunt. He gets no pushback or consequences because nearly everyone around him is a cunt. It's not played for laughs, the people in-universe laugh because they're cunts. The joke is on Barley, and all of them - it just doesn't give you any cathartic comeuppance or lightbulb moment from any of them because it's a more cynical, bleak show than that.

[Angst in my Pants]

Nicholas was great when he originated the role of Mike in Jeremy Dyson & Andy Nyman's Ghost Stories, the character who was later played by Martin Freeman in the film version.

[Red82]

You drift off, I'll have a scoff.

[MrVentham]

I think there's funny bits but it definitely feels more like an expression of disdain or contempt than anything. Overall, the anger behind the show tends to overshadow any of the humor in it. It also feels pretty bleak since there's the idiots who are obviously the target of ridicule, but then the character who rails against the idiots is shown to be something of a sanctimonious and hypocritical twat with his own hidden idiotic sympathies

Spoiler alert

(like when he's playing cock-muff-bumhole, or betting on the bumfights)

[close]

and lack of depth

Spoiler alert

(his interview at the rival magazine shows he doesn't have much to say apart from criticizing the idiots)

[close]

. By the end, I felt like everyone was hopelessly useless: there's the idiots, then the anti-idiots (like Dan) who are basically just intellectualized idiots, and even Claire seems somewhat clueless

Spoiler alert

given her documentary is portrayed as ridiculous despite being well-intentioned

[close]

.

Basically, by the end, the whole thing struck me as nihilistic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like I said, there's still funny bits: 'It's got a massive number 5 because it's the most common number.' But I'd say the slogan for the show is: "It's well fuckin' futile."

[GMTV]

At the time I made it through two episodes and gave up. Always had thoughts of giving it another go but not yet had the inclination. So disappointed by it at the time. Desperately wanted to like it considering how much I loved Chris Morris and his output, and was obsessed with TV Go Home.

I remember reading through the threads on here about it, and weirdly one element of that still sticks in my mind. I will possibly be lying on my death bed wanting to find out exactly what the cat and scissors gag was and will I find it funny.

[Phoenix Lazarus]

I remember that poor cat instantly slain by falling scissors piercing its brain in a barber's.

[Pauline Walnuts]

I remember the 'nice guy' one failing at a job interview in a level of cringe that felt ripped off Ricky Gervais. So like total cringe, amirite?

And how much the mighty had fallen.

[Ferris]

I thought that was pretty clear. Barley's does that stuff because he's a cunt. He gets no pushback or consequences because nearly everyone around him is a cunt. It's not played for laughs, the people in-universe laugh because they're cunts. The joke is on Barley, and all of them - it just doesn't give you any cathartic comeuppance or lightbulb moment from any of them because it's a more cynical, bleak show than that.

But how can the joke be on him if he's a cunt, but continues being a self-facilitating media node? He's literally getting away with it. It's just a cunt being a cunt. If it's making the point that he's failing upwards despite being awful... ok, but the entire rest of the show does that so why is it in there?

Personally, I think (?) we're supposed to have a guilty chuckle at Pingu's treatment, particularly at the electrocution's placement in the barrage of stupid website shit. Maybe not. I don't know. It feels tonally really odd to me, and it isn't the only thing (cat/scissors is another).

Maybe it is just the bleak nihilism of the show, but it does feel a bit pointless and nasty after a while. Ok I'll shut up now.

[purlieu]

I remember the 'nice guy' one failing at a job interview in a level of cringe that felt ripped off Ricky Gervais. So like total cringe, amirite?

And how much the mighty had fallen.

Yeah, Julian Barratt as Dan Ashcroft, gets a job interview with the Times Sunday Supplement, if I remember correctly, and goes along expecting to just get the job, because he thinks he's great, only to realise he actually has nothing to offer other than his hatred of the "idiots". Decent premise, but the execution is pretty poor, him pretending to know about wine when he doesn't and stuff.

I remember a guy I lived with catching some of it with me and totally missing the point, he thought Nathan was great and actually started using "peace and fucking" as a greeting in real life. A very weird situation.

[Ferris]

In fairness to Dan, nobody told him it was an interview. They just kept saying "we want you to write for us!" and he finally agreed to go to their office.

If someone was begging me to work for them, I kept saying no, then I finally gave in and agreed to meet them I don't think I'd be expecting an interview either. I thought you wanted me to work for you, now you're asking me to pitch? You know what my stuff is and you like it enough to beg me to come in so what's going on here?

[badaids]

No, it's not funny. It's well-observed, and interesting for its predictive nature as you mentioned, but there aren't really any jokes and the nature of it means that you're almost exclusively spending time with lots of excruciatingly obnoxious characters. I've tried a bunch of times to get into it, because of the pedigree; I think I only made it past episode 2 once.

Fat arms.

[Magnum Valentino]

Rhys Thomas saying "my uncle died without falling out of anything" and then sighing is honestly one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

He also says "filthy squeezing" in another scene and that's what me and my brother have called him ever since.

[Pink Gregory]

NIGHT IN THE PUB WITH YOUR MATES AND IT'S FUCKING MENTAL

[MrVentham]

In fairness to Dan, nobody told him it was an interview. They just kept saying "we want you to write for us!" and he finally agreed to go to their office.

If someone was begging me to work for them, I kept saying no, then I finally gave in and agreed to meet them I don't think I'd be expecting an interview either. I thought you wanted me to work for you, now you're asking me to pitch? You know what my stuff is and you like it enough to beg me to come in so what's going on here?

Fair point. Though I also think it's pretty reasonable to expect the person you're keen to hire to have something to say about something. I guess I took it the way I did because the only pieces we really see of his writing are polemical tirades and it gave the impression that he's just a cunt that shits on everything but doesn't really have anything else to say. It's pretty easy to just bitch and moan about pretty much anything. I guess I got the impression that Dan was a self-righteous pseudo-intellectual whose writing is pretty superficial all things considered, showing him to be just a sort of self-hating idiot. He ultimately shows himself to be unable to write for anyone else but the idiots and SugarApe is the only magazine that really wants to keep him at the end of the day.

[Cuntbeaks]

I watched it again last year and enjoyed a lot more than I did when it was first broadcast.

The real life "idiots" hadn't even hit their stride in 2005, despite me thinking they had. 20 years later and the whole series seems depressingly prescient.

[badaids]

I loved and still love Nathan Barley.  I was living around shoreditch at the time and it perfectly capture the zeitgeist.

David Hoyle is brilliant in it.

ANd the montage of the random idiots dressed in their fashion, wearing flip slops on their ears and walking with their arms tucked inside their trousers often plays in my mind.

[MrVentham]

NIGHT IN THE PUB WITH YOUR MATES AND IT'S FUCKING MENTAL

MOVE FROM THE PUB TO THE CLUB FOR SOME AWESOME SOUNDS, YEAH?

[frajer]

Yeah, Julian Barratt as Dan Ashcroft, gets a job interview with the Times Sunday Supplement, if I remember correctly, and goes along expecting to just get the job, because he thinks he's great, only to realise he actually has nothing to offer other than his hatred of the "idiots". Decent premise, but the execution is pretty poor, him pretending to know about wine when he doesn't and stuff.

I remember a nice bit where it cuts from Dan to the bougie boss and he's started idly strumming his electric guitar while Dan's talking.

The actor underplays it perfectly. Nailed-on tosspot.