Old Doctor Who - Part 3

[Replies From View]

Yeah, Philip Hinchcliffe's tenure hasn't ever been beaten really.

I occasionally wonder if he would have continued to produce consistently brilliant stories if he'd stayed and not been replaced with Graham Williams.  We'll never know.  Perhaps he'd already served his natural span and Mary Whitehouse made no real difference to the show forever by turning it into a pantomime.  And wrecking it.

We'll never know.

The bitch.

[purlieu]

I'm not sure I've ever felt so out-of-step with common opinion than when it comes to Tom Baker-era Who. I like series 12, but after that find it a massive slog - the occasional story aside - until Graham Williams comes along and suddenly I remember why I loved it again.

It probably would be Seeds of Doom next, except I haven't got that one on DVD. Planet of Evil has plenty of horror movie tropes, he might like that. Ark in Space is pretty gruesome too but the effects aren't really up to showing it convincingly.

Oh just give him a double bill of The Horns of Nimon and The Leisure Hive and be done with it.

[pigamus]

It probably would be Seeds of Doom next, except I haven't got that one on DVD. Planet of Evil has plenty of horror movie tropes, he might like that. Ark in Space is pretty gruesome too but the effects aren't really up to showing it convincingly.

Oh pffffffft. Nobody gives a shit about the fucking bubble wrap. I once showed The Ark in Space to a girl and she liked it.

[purlieu]

Despite the body horror, it's not very gritty though, is it? After Genesis it would seem incredibly 'clean'.

[pigamus]

Show him Underworld, that'll make him cry.

[Norton Canes]

I was thinking of going straight in with Kinda.

[purlieu]

Invite some of his friends round for a Time and the Rani & The Twin Dilemma double-header.

[Replies From View]

Nobody's mentioned 'Terror of the Zygons' yet.

It's good.

[Small Man Big Horse]

News for US Who fans - You can see The Five Doctors on the big screen being mocked by the Rifftrax guys later this year, more info is here: http://www.avclub.com/article/rifftrax-gang-taking-classic-doctor-who-special-252798

[Norton Canes]

Invite some of his friends round for a Time and the Rani & The Twin Dilemma double-header

Don't go there. Time and the Rani is my current classic series DVD. Usually I watch a story over a week or so but I'm getting through this at the rate of an episode a fortnight. I just can't bring myself to watch any more. Might cut strsight to the extras.

[daf]

Just focus on Langford's bum - it's the only way I got through it.

[The Roofdog]

had it been a one off 6 episode science fiction drama, with the daleks and Doctor substituted with similar alternatives I really think it would be regarded, by more than just fans of the show, as a near legendary mid 70s BBC production.

It's weird that such an iconic story doesn't have the TARDIS in it at all.

[Replies From View]

Don't go there. Time and the Rani is my current classic series DVD. Usually I watch a story over a week or so but I'm getting through this at the rate of an episode a fortnight. I just can't bring myself to watch any more. Might cut strsight to the extras.

Little fact:  it was initially conceived as a Colin Baker story, with the sixth Doctor regenerating at the end of the fourth episode rather than moments into the first.  Baker wasn't just being asked back "to shoot a regeneration scene" like many people think, but an entire story.

The final version of the story has one of the disposable characters

Spoiler alert

sacrificing his life to save everyone

[close]

; in the original version,

Spoiler alert

it was the sixth Doctor making the sacrifice

[close]

.

A far better way for the sixth Doctor to go out, and a stronger start to that season and the seventh Doctor's tenure more generally, I reckon.  Oh well.

[Ambient Sheep]

And I was really pleased that my son enjoyed it so much. It's the first classic era 'Who he's watched (except for a few monstery ones I showed him when he was really small ) and I was worried he'd find it too talky, and the pace a bit leisurely...

I'm surprised as well, as when I bought and watched the Genesis DVD around eight years ago, I really struggled myself to get through one or two of the middle episodes.  I started watching it with a couple of my step-children and, although initially interested, they drifted away halfway through episode 1, although the

Spoiler alert

Dalek appearing at the end

[close]

did capture their attention momentarily.  But they didn't bother to join me for the rest of the episodes, and I could understand why by the time I'd got to episode 3 or something.  Given they were both still in single figures at the time, I probably should have tried them on one of the faster-moving more cartoony ones like Carnival of Monsters.

Not sure what to show him next. Hinchliffe again I'm sure, but he loved the grittiness of Genesis, and as I said up-thread, 'gothic' as they are, none of the other Hinchcliffes are quite this grim.

My first thought is, as always, Pyramids of Mars - as Deanjam says, it's just about perfect, including possibly the best first-episode cliffhanger that Who ever produced, from the minute Namin starts his mad organ playing all the hairs go up on the back of my neck.  I enjoyed it as a kid when it first went out, but I absolutely ADORE it as an adult.

Seeds of Doom? I always thought that was pretty nasty with the body horror, Scorby drowning, Harrison Chase

Spoiler alert

copping it in his own compost maker

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...

God, that seriously freaked me out as a kid![nb]But as we all know if anybody's been paying attention and gives a shit, it didn't give me nightmares: only Escape into Night and Quatermass and the Pit did that.[/nb]  I may have been eleven years old, but the horror of that moment stuck with me for a long time...

Spoiler alert

  feet first 

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, for God's sake!!  Spent far too long having queasy thoughts about how that must have felt.

First time I watched Seeds of Doom I saw it coming as soon as the machine was introduced, and thus spent the bulk of those episodes tensely waiting for the hideous inevitability to happen. One of the few Who moments to genuinely unsettle me as an adult.

Being a naive kid, I don't think I spotted the Chekov's Gun, at least not that I remember.  I've not seen Seeds of Doom as an adult, but funnily enough I got the DVD for Christmas, and have been looking forward (well, kind of) to see if it has the same effect on me 41 years later.

Can still hear the clanking noise

Spoiler alert

  and the scream 

[close]

in my head, all these years later.

[weekender]

I've not seen Seeds of Doom as an adult.

You really should do this, it's awesome.  2nd best T Baker after Genesis imho.

Mind you, I just put Robots of Death as 3rd in my list and by now you're questioning why Pyramids of Mars isn't in my top three, and therefore my entire judgement.  Hey, I'm just a guy, you know?

PS I also find Terror of the Zygons a bit overrated.

[Ambient Sheep]

You really should do this, it's awesome.  2nd best T Baker after Genesis imho.

Mind you, I just put Robots of Death as 3rd in my list...

I actually rather like that one myself - one of the last ones I watched as a kid before I got Williams/Adamsed to death.

I tried to show it to a friend of mine last year (it came round on the Horror channel) but had to give up ten minutes in due to the incoming massive mockery of the costumes and the fact that nothing happened for those first ten minutes.

...and by now you're questioning why Pyramids of Mars isn't in my top three,...

Weak fourth episode?

(Although I don't agree with this common criticism, I think it's fine, the puzzles intrigued the hell out of me as a kid, and Sarah

Spoiler alert

trapped in the glass belljar

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frightened the hell out of me.  I didn't notice the alleged similarity to Death to the Daleks (and can't comment now as I've not seen it again), and being a kid who was into all things radio-technical, the

Spoiler alert

  thing about the radio signal taking eight(?) minutes to get back to Earth was a brilliant resolution 

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and I don't know why people slag it off as being a cop-out.  It's totally not, it's utterly legitimate physics.)

...and therefore my entire judgement.  Hey, I'm just a guy, you know?

Nah, but I might start calling you Zaphod.

PS I also find Terror of the Zygons a bit overrated.

I want to see that one again as it's so highly-rated, but I have to say I remember very little about it despite being nearly eleven when it aired, so it can't have been that spectacular.  I remember the Zygons themselves and their wonderful blobby spaceship controls (spent ages trying to work out how the hell they knew what any of the settings were), and the Loch Ness monster of course, but I don't remember the shapeshifting at all, so it was a massive surprise to me when they did that in New Who... "Since when did Zygons shapeshift?!?!  <googles>  Oh, they always did. *blush*"

[Deanjam]

Zygons is right up my street. Fog-covered highlands. Mysterious castle. Monster destroying the buggery out of things. Creepy cool aliens.

Ian Marter is especially good as his evil duplicate.

[weekender]

I tried to show it to a friend of mine last year (it came round on the Horror channel) but had to give up ten minutes in due to the incoming massive mockery of the costumes and the fact that nothing happened for those first ten minutes.

From memory, I think there's a lot happening in that first 10 minutes that people don't realise.  Character positioning/certain robots in the background etc.

Nah, but I might start calling you Zaphod.

Hah, never any doubt about the reference, knew you'd get it.

Now fuck off and watch the Seeds of Doom, like I'm going to :)

Yours

weeky x etc

[maett]

Zygons is right up my street. Fog-covered highlands. Mysterious castle. Monster destroying the buggery out of things. Creepy cool aliens.

Ian Marter is especially good as his evil duplicate.

I adore the incidental music for that one, too. Gorgeous.

[Camp Tramp]

State of Decay is pretty ghoulish, I'm a big fan of Warriors Gate though, it is so different to anything before or since and has a lovely morbid tone to it.

[Replies From View]

I'm a big fan of Warriors Gate though, it is so different to anything before or since and has a lovely morbid tone to it.

I agree with you there.  I think the closest Doctor Who ever got again was Ghost Light, but I often struggle with Keff McCulloch's incidental music.

[daf]

The Two(ish) Doctors - Davison and Eccleston both make an appearance in The 'Brian Pern: A Tribute' show [nb]around 11 minutes in[/nb] -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08kz93t

Drop the Sonic Device!

[Norton Canes]

I agree with you there.  I think the closest Doctor Who ever got again was Ghost Light, but I often struggle with Keff McCulloch's incidental music

Kinda was very surreal and symbolic, also.

[Camp Tramp]

I agree with you there.  I think the closest Doctor Who ever got again was Ghost Light, but I often struggle with Keff McCulloch's incidental music.

Keff didn't do Ghostlight, it was Mark Ayres.

[Weeping Prophet]

Mark Ayres was a breath of fresh air toward the end, but the mixing in Ghostlight did it no favors.

[purlieu]

Ghost Light is beautiful, but the audio and slightly dingy lighting make it feel like a particularly bad Hal Hartley film at times.

[Malcy]

I'm not sure I've ever felt so out-of-step with common opinion than when it comes to Tom Baker-era Who. I like series 12, but after that find it a massive slog.

My least favourite era is the Baker. Probably my least favourite Doctor as well. Find it all very overrated. Think it's just so popular because it was at a popularity height at the time and everyone remembers it.

[daf]

Though Baker's peak popularity was season 17 which, 'City of Death' aside, hasn't got a great reputation these days.

The Viewing figures throw up a few oddities - eg. the most popular Hartnell isn't a Dalek story, it's . . .

Spoiler alert

The Web Planet!

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http://www.themindrobber.co.uk/ratings.html

[purlieu]

Series 12, 16 and 17 are my favourites of Tom's era.

[purlieu]

Though Baker's peak popularity was season 17

What's astonishing is the fall-off the following year. Episode 2 of Full Circle is one of only seven episodes in the show's history to have fewer than four million viewers. The whole series was watched by about as many people as tuned into the McCoy era.