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March 29, 2024, 03:01:49 PM

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NOPE (2022) - new Jordan Peele thingy

Started by surreal, February 13, 2022, 10:25:53 AM

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surreal


Crenners

Lemme guess its about American colonialism

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


Mister Six

Get Out was great. Us felt like half an idea that was rushed into production before it was properly fleshed out, for fear that the window to get more films financed was closing fast. I hope that the four or five years between Us and Nope means that Peele's had time to refine and perfect this script.

That said, the trailer doesn't really tell me much of anything about what the film is actually offering other than "(Modern-day) Cowboys & Aliens", so I'm not feeling the excitement yet. Hopefully it'll have some of that Tremors B-movie vibe, albeit with an obviously much bigger budget. Glad Daniel Kaluuya's career is still going strong though.

Quote from: Crenners on February 13, 2022, 05:57:25 PMLemme guess its about American colonialism

Us wasn't about that, so...


Mister Six


mothman

I bet it's a backdoor sequel to M. Night's Signs. At the end the Rev. Mel will show up, to kick ass - with his Mad Max sawn-off, for some reason. While insisting this whole situation is all the Jews' fault.

SteveDave

My biggest bugbear with the trailer is the record slowing down when the power goes out. Although it's not as bad as that film with Mannequin Skywalker where something gets you in the darkness but if you stay in the light you're alright. They're trapped in a bar with a CD jukebox and it slows down like a vinyl record. And post.

surreal

Well the power does sort of fade off, not blink off, so...

chutnut

There was a bit in the new Scream film where they're talking about Jordan Peele films being 'elevated horror', they're just same shit that's been made for decades but done in a really smug way. They're fine but I don't understand the hype at all.
Even the title of this one feels very smug

Bence Fekete

New Original Peele Experience!

    Nebulous Object Parking Expected

        No Obvious Phenomenal Ending (pls)

Noodle Lizard

#11
I just saw it tonight. It had a few good-looking things (as any $70m movie should) and the occasional fun moment, but I think it's a Bad Film overall. His other two films are flawed, but this one really is bordering on inept at times.

I've seen some of the pompous headlines already professing to "Explain" or "Analyze" the various hidden meanings and metaphors in Nope - as if it would be impossible for Jordan Peele to simply have made a shiter. I could go into more detail, but put simply there were things in it that were so stupid that I thought there must be some sort of subversion on its way, but it never came.

Daniel Kaluuya gave it his least (which is still decent, of course, but he had very little to work with) and Keke Palmer tried very hard. The rest of the cast varies from bland to outright shite, but I think the script is more to blame than the actors themselves - with the possible exception of Brandon Perea, who really was just plain honking.

Interested to hear what you all made of it. I know critics are predictably trying to fawn, but I don't think it's polled very well among audiences compared to Peele's other films.

fucking ponderous

I really liked it. Though I thought the
Spoiler alert
chimp tragedy/Yeun's reckoning with it
[close]
was easily the most interesting part. My first reaction coming out of the theater was I would have preferred a film about just that, but I think now how little we see of it/know about it is what gives it its haunting power. It's just a shame everything else in the movie is good, but not as good.

Mister Six

I also watched it last night, and while I thought a lot more of it than Noodle Lizard, I still reckon it's a deeply flawed film.

First off, the good stuff: it looks gorgeous, thanks to DP Hoyte van Hoytema, and there are some truly spectacular sequences that are fantastically well shot and edited. The use of obscured vision is masterful; in other films it looks like they're just trying to hide naff FX or compositing - here it's all done with purpose and precision, to build tension and mystery, and keep the audience actively engaged in the visuals. The sound work is stunning, probably the best I've experienced in years. The design for "Jean Jacket", especially at the climax, is incredible. The CGI is crisp and believable. The film absolutely deserves technical Oscar noms, and probably full on statues.

It's also stacked high with memorable imagery and some moments of genuinely chilling horror. There are sequences that I'd love to enthuse about at length, but I don't want to spoil anything so I'll say: "hailstorm", Gordy's Birthday, night in the stables, abduction, "rain", luring, high noon. Peele's direction in these sections and others is brilliant. Nope is certainly more tonally and structurally cohesive than Us.

Buuuuutttttttt... that script. It's too long and lacking in focus, for a start. Peele obviously wants to make a fun alien invasion movie, but also wants to make a Big Point About A Thing (more on that in spoiler tags below, for those who've seen the film) and unlike in Get Out, those two urges are pulling in opposite directions. The opening and the climax are brilliant, but a lot of what falls in between drags, especially with the overlong, dithering and unfocused second act.

(Actually, even the opening is overstuffed. It's always good to start a movie with a strong image, but Peele opens with three strong images, which is kind of microcosm of one of the film's major problems.)

Maybe it would have a bit more oomph if the characters were really engaging, but all of them are underwritten. Daniel Kaluuya's socially awkward ranch hand, OJ, is so closed off that it's hard to connect with him emotionally. His sister Emerald, played by Keke Palmer, is a generic flamboyant motormouth figure. Steven Yuen gets third billing, but spends most of the film off in his own little bubble. The cast is rounded out by Brandon Perea as sulky tech whiz Angel, who wants to join in the alien-spotting, and Michael Wincott as a gravel-voiced cinematographer called in to help capture the UFO on film. The former acts as a second (more successful) comedy character, the latter basically just a plot device. Kaluuya does a lot with very little. Everyone else is just kind of there, notably Palmer, who's getting a lot of unjustified praise on Twitter for a very one-note, average performance (I'm guessing because she's a black woman and white liberals can't resist jerking off about this kind of thing on social media). The guy who plays Angel is pretty funny, I suppose.

Anyway, none of the characters have a particularly compelling motivation, particularly our central pair. OJ's initial "we have to save the farm" is classic protagonist stuff, but just kind of falls by the wayside pretty quickly, as both he and his sister decide to try to film the UFO for fame and riches. Not that a selfish motivation is a bad thing, but that's basically all they care about for the rest of the movie, and only their shallow friendship with Angel really shows any kind of (limited) development. Add to that a complete disinterest in the UFO except as a source of income (none of the wonder or excitement of, say, Jurassic Park or Close Encounters of the Third Kind for the audience to be swept up in) and there's very little to get behind. And that's kind of the point of the film, but the end result is still dramatic inertia, especially in the laborious second act.

And we're back to the core problem of the film - the message of the movie is in conflict with the movie Peele wants to make. He wants to critique the exploitation of nature for entertainment and profit, so his characters all have to be cynical and cash-oriented. But he also wants to make a Tremors-type fun B-movie about an alien invasion, which works best when your protagonists are actually likeable and have aims beyond "make bank out of this thing". Tremors is a good example, obviously - our heroes do want to make money from the "Graboids", but they also want to protect one another and their community, and achieve their own personal goals (find love, get out of Perfection, find out what's causing the tremors etc).

But in Nope they're all just a bunch of shallow, selfish pricks, and the ticking clock isn't "We have to escape and warn everyone about the invasion!" it's "We have to get this on film before TMZ beats us to it!"

That problem is compounded by a bunch of extraneous stuff that's relevant to the theme, but not the story - Gordy's Birthday being the most obvious one.

So yeah, a lot of good stuff in here, including a lot that I don't want to talk about in detail because of spoilers, but Peele is a victim of his own intellectualism. He obviously wants to make fun popcorn movies, and he'd do an incredible job of it too, so I hope with his next film he's able to just shut off the chin-stroking part of his brain and tap into the amygdala-fuelled fun part. Or at least choose a subject matter and genre, as with Get Out, that lets him integrate the Big Point with the crowd-pleasing fun instead of having them rip the film apart.

Oh, and what's the film about? Genuinely massive spoilers...

Spoiler alert
As I said, it's about man exploiting nature for entertainment and profit, and very specifically about the exploitation of wild animals - removing them from their natural environment and provoking them for spectacle. Treating them like objects.

It's there at the beginning, of course, with that glimpse of Gordy's Birthday: the chimpanzee who freaked out on a TV set, because chimpanzees should not be on TV sets our kept outside of their natural environments in case they flip out and rip off your face then beat you to death.

And Steven Yuen's character doesn't get the message, despite his trauma; the spectacle caused "Gordy" to flip out, so he turned "Gordy" flipping out into a meta-spectacle, then sold that. And then he tries to sell the visitations by "Jean Jacket" as a spectacle, and... well, look where that gets him.

This idea is also key to the sister's speech about the first ever film. Predictably, a lot of people have gone off about how this is highlighting the importance of black contributions to cinema etc, but no - that's not the point. The point is when she talks at length about the name of the director, then the name of the jockey, leaving the unasked question: what was the name of the horse? The horse was the co-star, of course, and really the focus of the images: until the photos were taken, there was poor understanding of how horses coordinated their legs at a gallop (and indeed, his photos were mocked for not showing the horse to be as graceful as people imagined). But she doesn't care about the horse, and the people on set don't care about the horse, and in fact who cares about a horse's name anyway?

But what are the title cards you see throughout the film? They're the names of the horses and other animals: the chimpanzee and ultimately "Jean Jacket".

OJ, of course, is a horse wrangler, and while he obviously cares about the horses not being eaten, he can really only think of them within a domesticated - "broken", in horse-wrangling terms - setting. The horses are still a source of income, their value is dependent on them being owned and put to work. What's he doing at the start of the film? Putting these beautiful creatures in a pen, fenced off from the plains they would naturally gallop across, having them trot around in circles on a mechanised rotator for "exercise".

So yeah, that's what's being critiqued by Nope - humanity's oppression and commodification of wild animals. It's why Angel desperately tries to justify their plan to capture it on film as being for the greater good - he knows that they're being selfish.

Which is fiiiiine, except that Peele is trying to make a B-movie romp - a genre that requires protagonists you can root for. And it's hard to root for people who just want to get on Oprah.

That is all. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
[close]

Mister Six

(Ironic how Fucking Ponderous's write-up is succinct, while my own is... fucking ponderous.)

Noodle Lizard

Great post, Mister Six. Your spoilered section in particular brought up an additional aspect to the common interpretation that I hadn't considered.

But also ... as with many "elevated horrors", it's all well and good for this stuff to be in there somewhere sorta, but it doesn't improve (or elevate) a messy film, especially one that's presented as a fairly straightforward mainstream film. I wouldn't forgive bad writing or pacing in Jurassic World, so it'd be unfair to forgive it in something like this just because I want to believe there's more to it.

I think this is partly a problem stemming from the ability of both the audiences and the creators being able to discuss their films so much, to the point where it basically becomes part of the experience outside of the film itself. So a filmmaker can throw in some stuff that vaguely hints at some theme or other and we can all have a good time connecting the dots later, but it's not actually felt or even understood when watching the film itself - at least not for most. Sometimes I think we end up liking what a film could have been rather than what it actually was.

Mister Six

I think you do the film a disservice by implying that the theme was just a few vague hints tossed into the mix rather than an essential part of its core.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Mister Six on July 26, 2022, 10:13:51 PMI think you do the film a disservice by implying that the theme was just a few vague hints tossed into the mix rather than an essential part of its core.

I was thinking more of other films in that instance, more a general point about some "elevated horror" tendencies, but I would still say it was all a bit diffuse in this one too. Poorly-implemented, at least.

According to the Wikipedia, it went through a lot of rewrites, and I suppose it feels like that. At one point in the process, I would guess Peele just wanted to make a big spectacle with a bit of commentary for flavour (like Jurassic Park, Close Encounters etc.), but he is also very aware of what his fans and critics expect from him. Like you said, I think Get Out and even Us (to a far lesser extent) felt informed by their messages, whereas Nope feels as if some of it might have been added in later in the process in order to ... er, elevate it.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it's my fault I missed some things that would've made it more impactful. I'm pretty confident that it wasn't very well-written though.

Mister Six

Ah, I see. I definitely think the script needed work (or possibly, given your notes above, less work). I can't get away from the feeling that the theme required a critical view of the protagonists, which in turn worked against the movie's intention of being a fun alien invasion flick.

Noodle Lizard

This quote from Peele today seems to somewhat confirm my suspicion about the development process:

Quote"First and foremost, I wanted to make a UFO horror film. And then of course it's like, where is the iconic Black UFO film? And whenever I feel that my favorite movie out there hasn't been made, that's the void I'm trying to fill with my films," Peele told "CBS Mornings" co-host Gayle King ahead of the movie's recent release. "It's like trying to make the film that I wish someone would make for me."

Fair enough. He also said this:

Quote"I like to surprise people and I like to shock," he said. "I like to provoke people who are in for a good provoking. I love the audience and I love feeling like the audience is rapt or they're together in on something. I just love that."

I guess that's where he lost me. I just don't think Nope is especially provocative, and that's partly because, well, it's far too easy to either ignore or simply miss the underlying themes. And they're not especially new or provocative to begin with, I don't think, especially not for sci-fi/monster movies which often trend towards a commentary on humans exploiting nature or being addicted to spectacle.

I dunno. I feel like I'm being a bit mean, now, so I will say that I really liked the chimp bit, the "raining" bit and some of the UFO/creature design.

I thought is was pretty fun overall, though the final climax of the movie struck me as clumsy in terms of the pacing and editing.
Spoiler alert
Were we supposed to cheer when O.J. shows up on the horse as if we thought he had died? I couldn't really tell what was going on during the standoff with Jean Jacket menacing between him and the sister. I definitely didn't think he had died.
[close]

Great moment and reaction from the audience the first time the titular "Nope" was uttered.

I interpreted the social commentary as having more to do with
Spoiler alert
the way that we are conditioned to experience all natural phenomenon through the lens of media, whether through actual camera lenses or highly trained animals, with Jean Jacket itself symbolizing this as a sort of massive floating camera.
[close]

BritishHobo

I really loved this. I may be being overly generous with this and US, but I adore them in spite of undeniable messiness. I can understand the issue with them as examples of 'elevated horror', but I think I like them much because I feel like they're going for a very different feel to other films in that category. I'm not saying Peele isn't trying to explore higher themes, but I think there's a focus on ideas that make the films massively impactful and memorable in my eyes, even if they don't always coalesce into something as concise and cohesive as Get Out. Images like
Spoiler alert
the old cowboy theme park (and, in Us, the dated 'Vision Quest' walkthrough attraction), the Bojack Horseman-esque sitcom nostalgia. Just lots of little touches; the tying of the horse-wrangling business to real film history, the Scoprion King crew jacket, etc. I can't hate a horror film that features so unique and appalling a creature design, and also contains a section where a bloke talks about how good Chris Kattan was in a fictional SNL sketch.
[close]

All that aside, it looks incredible throughout, as with Us, and contains some of the most memorable horror sequence I've seen in a long time. The terror of
Spoiler alert
the crowd screaming and crying inside this wet, claustrophobic, indescribable space
[close]
is going to stay with me for a long time. I think the characters are affable enough without laying it on too thick - the tech assistant guy could easily have been an irritating comic relief, but feels nicely subdued, and I liked the contrast between OJ and Em, both of whom feel differently adrift in the absence of their father's vision and drive.

There are definitely ways it could have been improved.
Spoiler alert
The central metaphor, and the relevance of Gordy's House to it, probably would have worked better if Steven Yeun's attempted harnessing was established earlier.
[close]

But as proper terrifying experiences, packed with memorable ideas, I think Peele still hasn't put a foot wrong, yet. I think there is still a sense of fun to them that distinguish them from other elevated horrors with loftier ambitions.

Small Man Big Horse

I've seen this now and have read up to Mister Six's post and found it a fascinating read, and revealed things about the movie that had passed me by at the time but I think he's absolutely right about it, though I look forward to contributing more to the thread when I've time tomorrow and have read other people's views.

Why post now then? Um, well, bar the themes mentioned, isn't it just
Spoiler alert
a flying hungry anus
[close]
movie? And fine, fine,
Spoiler alert
we see it in all it's glory at the end of the movie, but before then it really looked like
[close]
that to me!

checkoutgirl

Just saw this. Was okay. Close Encounters with a twist. 6.5/10.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: Mister Six on July 26, 2022, 08:00:33 PMrip off your face

Jesus that was based on a real thing. Amazingly the real life event is way worse so he must have thought he had to tone it down for taste and decency, or maybe believability.

I think the main failing is the Kaluuya character seems to be based on Gary Cooper or Clint Eastwood. This would be fine in the right film but it doesn't work that well here. As you go through the characters you think why the fuck are they doing any of this? Shouldn't they just stay in the guy's flat and call the CIA or something?

At first they go back to save a horse? Then was it to make a few bob? Then someone says something about it being for the good of mankind one and all. Shifting motivations with no real explanation and underwritten, nothingy characters. Fine for a B movie on a Sunday night though.

I question the gushing praise for Peele and Kaluuya. They're fine and all but it's a bit odd because they haven't hit the heights quite yet. Is it because Peele hits these film references, is it because he's from a sketch comedy background, or that he's black?

I'm happy Peele has a big enough name to draw punters which is rare enough and I hope he lives up to the praise eventually.

Mister Six

Quote from: checkoutgirl on August 13, 2022, 06:21:44 PMAs you go through the characters you think why the fuck are they doing any of this? Shouldn't they just stay in the guy's flat and call the CIA or something?

At first they go back to save a horse? Then was it to make a few bob? Then someone says something about it being for the good of mankind one and all. Shifting motivations with no real explanation and underwritten, nothingy characters. Fine for a B movie on a Sunday night though.

Going to defend Peele here - their motivations are consistent and clear. Yeah, OJ wants to save the ranch, his sister wants to push her career and Angel wants to see a UFO, but what motivates them all, really - or what subsumes any other motivations - is the desire to be rich and famous and appear on Oprah. That's made explicit in the conversation between OJ and the sister in the electronics store, and it's referred to later on. It's also why they don't call the authorities - all they want is to beat the media and other people to the punch.

Angel's bit about how they're really doing the right thing by raising awareness is a very obvious but of self-justification that neither he nor anyone else at the table really believes. The performances made that quite clear to me.

The cinematographer is motivated by a lunatic desire to get the impossible on film, but his escalation into suicidal kamikaze cameraman made no sense to me at all.

Quote from: checkoutgirl on August 13, 2022, 06:21:44 PMI question the gushing praise for Peele and Kaluuya. They're fine and all but it's a bit odd because they haven't hit the heights quite yet. Is it because Peele hits these film references, is it because he's from a sketch comedy background, or that he's black?

I think this is unfair. Kaluuya's been turning out great performances since his stint on Black Mirror, and he's got a lot bubbling away under the surface in this film. He's very, very good. I know a lot of people think that Peele is overrated, but I maintain that Get Out was a brilliant flick, and there are sequences in here (like the aforementioned digestion scene, and the attack on the house) that are incredible. He's obviously a massively talented director, even if his scripts aren't always holding up.

If you want to point fingers at white liberals for praising someone out of all proportion for their identity, the ridiculous response to Keke Palmer's totally generic "sassy black lady" performance in this (calls for her to get an Oscar, recalling similarly absurd acclaim for Tiffany Haddish's performance in Girls Trip) is right there.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Mister Six on August 13, 2022, 06:56:40 PMKaluuya's been turning out great performances since his stint on Black Mirror

Ahem, Tealeaf would like a word!

Mister Six

#27
Still haven't seen Psychoville or Inside No. 9. Was planning to do that after introducing League of Gentlemen to Mrs Six in 2020, but it disappeared off US Amazon Prime during the George Floyd protests. I'm guessing Papa Lazarou made it a no-go zone, although they also removed series 1, so I'm not sure.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Mister Six on August 13, 2022, 07:26:42 PMStill haven't seen Psychobilly or Inside No. 9. Was planning to do that after introducing League of Gentlemen to Mrs Six in 2020, but it disappeared off US Amazon Prime during the George Floyd protests. I'm guessing Papa Lazarou made it a no-go zone, although they also removed series 1, so I'm not sure.

They're all on Britbox, which you can get as a Prime add-on!

checkoutgirl

Quote from: Mister Six on August 13, 2022, 06:56:40 PMI know a lot of people think that Peele is overrated, but I maintain that Get Out was a brilliant flick, and there are sequences in here (like the aforementioned digestion scene, and the attack on the house) that are incredible. He's obviously a massively talented director, even if his scripts aren't always holding up.

Peele may be overrated but that's out of his hands so not his fault, it wasn't a dig against him, more about the critics. I'm generally pro Peele, there's much to enjoy in this film and I want him to progress and do better. The villain/monster was excellent. I can't remember seeing something quite like this in film. Maybe Demon Seed or something.

The plot and motivations just weren't quite there for me. The whole let's fight this thing. It took a long time. The ship/villain looked great, the sound design was great. That puts it in solid B movie fun for me. Nothing wrong with that.