Israel-Gaza Conflict III - This Time It's On-Topic

[thugler]

This 'release the hostages' stuff is still pretty useless without it applying to both sides.

[Buelligan]

The Majority Report goes into a little detail on this and on the other wording.  The resolution does say ...demands the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages ... and further demands that the parties comply with their obligations under international law in relation to all persons they detain...

All persons they detain covers not just all the people Israel has abducted and is holding without trial but also everyone detained in the Gaza Strip, does it not?

[TrenterPercenter]

Surely now it is just a matter of time for Bibi, regardless of wording the US is clearly on a path now that expects Israel to desist in their barbarism in Gaza.  In reality this means either Bibi goes or Israel becomes a pariah state (and an internally authoritarian one at that as he has no support from his own people).  It would be bizarre but absolutely not beyond any realm of possibility of the US working with allies to evoke "regime change" and remove him.

Yes on one hand this is the old he's a bastard but our bastard.......until he becomes a liability to our interests that we've seen in other places in the ME but this is how these things generally end.  In fact if the US had any sense it should throw its weight behind the UN and re-empower it to be decisive in conflicts again after it clusterfuck of Iraq.   This would work to their advantage going forward with Russias ongoing "special operation" in Ukraine.

[Zero Gravitas]

Clearly on the path to having an expectation, regardless of them having made that expectation explicit.

_{Very Humphrey Appleby, maybe a little Bob Loblaw thrown in.}

And so only doing so implicitly through an international body it has stated it has zero faith in being able to effect change?

The state of Israel and it's regime is an exceptional entity, both in it's relationship with the US and it's acceptance of international rulings, I'm doubtful one can extend ones expectations from what has happened to "other places in the ME".

[Steve Faeces]

Jewish settlers set their sights on Gaza beachfront

Don't really see how the views or stated aims of these lads are any more palatable than Hamas to be honest. Another example of why I won't be bothered about hurty words (river to the sea etc) when there's people actually doing from the river to the sea colonialization but it's the people that the West finds palatable doing it so it's fine.

[TrenterPercenter]

The state of Israel and it's regime is an exceptional entity, both in it's relationship with the US and it's acceptance of international rulings, I'm doubtful one can extend ones expectations from what has happened to "other places in the ME".

You are probably right to be doubtful that is why I say it would be bizarre but not beyond the realms of possibility.  If Bibi goes rogue what does the US do? Without US support Israel is highly vulnerable to attacks from it neighbours with the potential for bloodshed that will dwarf what has happened in Gaza.  It's foolish to not take seriously that there is appetite in the ME to wipe Israel off the map, that goal for some is as much religious fundamentalism as it is geopolitical sense.

It doesn't seem impossible then that the US would move to remove Bibi by force and establish a new regime in order to maintain it's strategic interest in Israel - no reason to not see Israel as exceptional, this is absolutely about removing Bibi for that exceptionalism to remain.

[Memorex MP3]

Would expect a lot of Democrat pressure to get Netanyahu gone by the US election, make some promises to arm Israel to the hilt afterwards but push hard in the media that they've removed the bad man.

This 'release the hostages' stuff is still pretty useless without it applying to both sides.

Especially given it's fairly likely at least one unaccounted for Israeli hostage is dead and Israel will just move the goalposts at that point

[Wonderful Butternut]

This 'release the hostages' stuff is still pretty useless without it applying to both sides.

Arbitrarily detained brown people are prisoners, not hostages.

Big difference. Prisoners are everywhere in every civilised society, so it's ok.

[Buelligan]

The next national demonstration calling for an end to the genocide in Gaza and a #CeasefireNOW will take place on Saturday 30 March – Palestine Land Day. It's also Easter weekend, traditionally associated with calls for peace.

Following the tremendous turnout at the last national demo, we are urging all our groups and supporters to start building now for another massive march for a #CeasefireNOW

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/events/national-demonstration-ceasefire-now-stop-the-genocide-in-gaza/
https://www.stopwar.org.uk/local-transport-to-national-march-for-palestine-ceasefire-now/

[shoulders]

https://twitter.com/UN_HRC/status/1772636445779300744?t=pVSznOQ-2EKiLoLdH0BRnw&s=19

Very upsetting, naturally, but very important and in some ways restoring to listen to.

[Buelligan]

As you say, a signal that the wheels are beginning to move.  We must all keep pushing.  We must not give up.  Hope.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Government to intervene in SA's ICJ case against Israel

Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin has announced that Ireland will intervene in the case initiated by South Africa against Israel under the Genocide Convention at the International Court of Justice.

In a statement this afternoon, the Tánaiste said he had directed officials to start work on a Declaration of Intervention under Article 63 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice.

If approved by the Government, this will be filed at the court in The Hague for the case against Israel under the 1948 Genocide Convention.

[...]

Mr Martin said that while it was for the court to decide whether genocide was being committed, what happened on 7 October in Israel, and what is happening now in Gaza, represents a "blatant violation of international humanitarian law on a mass scale".

He said the view of the international community was clear - that enough is enough.

"The UN Security Council has demanded an immediate ceasefire, the unconditional release of hostages and the lifting of all barriers to the provision of humanitarian assistance at scale. The European Council has echoed this call," the Tánaiste said.

"The situation could not be more stark; half the population of Gaza face imminent famine and 100% of the population face acute food insecurity.

"As the UN Secretary General said as he inspected long lines of blocked relief trucks waiting to enter Gaza during his visit to Rafah at the weekend; 'it is time to truly flood Gaza with life-saving aid. The choice is clear: surge or starvation'. I echo his words today."

[...]

Prof Ní Aoláín explained that in an intervention, a country is not taking one side or the other as it is not a criminal proceeding.

However, it means a country is expressing a view on the density or accuracy of the facts being put forward by both parties or one party.

"One of the clear questions is, does this court have the right to allow a state which is not a party to this conflict, namely South Africa, to defend the principal of prevention of genocide," she said.

"It seems critically important that Ireland as a state that advances the obligation of many states to implement their human rights obligations actually affirms that the jurisdictional basis for this case, the obligation of all states, is affirmed and sustained by the court.

"The second point that Ireland has a really important role to play, and speaking to the standards of what constitutes a crime of genocide."

Prof Ní Aoláin added: "Most importantly, Ireland has an important role to play in saying , the provisional measures that this court has already authorised must be implemented.

"Practically what that means, the court has said it, humanitarian aid must get into Gaza.

"It seems obvious that the only way to implement those provisional orders is to actually have a ceasefire.

"So Ireland can lend its voice to that current, relevant, practical call to implement the provisional orders of this court."

Prof Ní Aoláin said there is no obligation on Israel to take on board anything said by any state.

[shoulders]

https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/gaza-war-lies-genocide-al-jazeera-shown-how

Another worthwhile article, I thought.

[Buelligan]

Pretty astoundingly horrific news coming out of Gaza this evening on Novara -

Thanks for the link, shoulders, I'll read it bientôt.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Pretty astoundingly horrific news coming out of Gaza this evening on Novara -

Thanks for the link, shoulders, I'll read it bientôt.

video gone

[DelurkedToHelp]

When I watched the video Buelligan posted, it was an hour long but that included an approx 6 minute countdown at the beginning. I think that's what they've edited out of the slightly shorter version below.

[McFlymo]

https://www.palestineaction.org/tamworth-shutdown/

Gorgeous.

Edit: a Palestine Action member was recently interviewed on Alexie Sayle's Podcast and I found it pretty heartening!

https://youtu.be/48HsbNy4cgQ?si=cPDIN9V-wXNvOsgC

[Buelligan]

video gone

Yes, sorry, it was live at the time, they usually repost them after it's gone out.  I was aware it might go like that but at the same time so horrified, particularly by those two atrocity accounts - the little boys and the men on the beach - I really needed to share it with others immediately.

When you see that stuff and you think about people like all the people in charge of the Israeli government, the US government, the British government, all the various cunts, you think about them enjoying a nice walk.  Taking a serene shit.  Eating a delicious breakfast.  You wonder why we are paying these cunts.  You wonder why we tolerate them at all.  You wonder how they manage to tolerate themselves.

[Buelligan]

DON'T FORGET AND PLEASE SHARE!



https://www.stopwar.org.uk/local-transport-to-national-march-for-palestine-ceasefire-now/
https://www.stopwar.org.uk/events/national-demonstration-ceasefire-now-stop-the-genocide-in-gaza/

[DelurkedToHelp]

I've finally found the wording of both the US resolution that was vetoed by Russia and China a week ago, as well as the resolution on Monday that passed and the US abstained on.

The vetoed US resolution

Taking note of intensified diplomatic efforts by Egypt and Qatar, aimed at
releasing the hostages, increasing the provision and distribution of humanitarian aid,
and alleviating the suffering of civilians in Gaza through an agreement for the release
of hostages and an immediate ceasefire of roughly six weeks,

Emphasizing that such a ceasefire should lay the foundation for a sustainable
ceasefire,

1. Determines the imperative of an immediate and sustained ceasefire to
protect civilians on all sides, allow for the delivery of essential humanitarian
assistance, and alleviate humanitarian suffering, and towards that end unequivocally
supports ongoing international diplomatic efforts to secure such a ceasefire in
connection with the release of all remaining hostages;

2. Emphasizes its full support for using the window of opportunity created
by any ceasefire to intensify diplomatic and other efforts aimed at creating the
conditions for a sustainable cessation of hostilities and lasting peace as called for in
Resolution 2720;

https://undocs.org/en/S/2024/239

And the resolution that passed/the US abstained on (and claim is "non-binding")

Acknowledging the ongoing diplomatic efforts by Egypt, Qatar and the United
States, aimed at reaching a cessation of hostilities, releasing the hostages and
increasing the provision and distribution of humanitarian aid,

1. Demands an immediate ceasefire for the month of Ramadan respected by
all parties leading to a lasting sustainable ceasefire, and also demands the immediate
and unconditional release of all hostages, as well as ensuring humanitarian access to
address their medical and other humanitarian needs, and further demands that the
parties comply with their obligations under international law in relation to all persons
they detain;

http://www.undocs.org/en/S/RES/2728(2024)

So both resolutions merely call for a humanitarian pause/temporary ceasefire ("immediate" does not mean permanent)

[DelurkedToHelp]

Like I said, the vote at the UN last week and Netanyahu supposedly cancelling a visit to the US was all theatre that seemingly successfully worked just before the news cycle moved onto the collapsing bridge.

U.S. signs off on more bombs, warplanes for Israel

The Biden administration in recent days quietly authorized the transfer of billions of dollars in bombs and fighter jets to Israel despite Washington's concerns about an anticipated military offensive in southern Gaza that could threaten the lives of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians.

The new arms packages include more than 1,800 MK84 2,000-pound bombs and 500 MK82 500-pound bombs, according to Pentagon and State Department officials familiar with the matter. The 2,000 pound bombs have been linked to previous mass-casualty events throughout Israel's military campaign in Gaza. These officials, like some others, spoke to The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity because recent authorizations have not been disclosed publicly.

The development underscores that while rifts have emerged between the United States and Israel over the war's conduct, the Biden administration views weapons transfers as off-limits when considering how to influence the actions of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

"We have continued to support Israel's right to defend itself," said a White House official. "Conditioning aid has not been our policy."

Four Hamas battalions remain in Rafah, say U.S. and Israeli officials. More than 1.2 million Palestinians have sought shelter there after being forced from their homes during Israel's extensive bombing campaign over the past five months. Biden suggested that a scorched-earth invasion of the city along Gaza's border with Egypt would cross a "red line" for him.

Biden requested that Netanyahu send a team of security officials to Washington this week to listen to U.S. proposals for limiting the bloodshed. Netanyahu canceled the visit after the United States refused to veto a United Nations Security Council resolution that called for a temporary cease-fire in Gaza and the release of hostages, but which did not condemn Hamas.

Israeli officials have not allayed U.S. concerns about the impending operation in Rafah, but they agreed to reschedule the meeting in Washington, the White House said.

The increasingly public spat has not dissuaded Biden from rushing weapons and military equipment into the conflict. Last week, the State Department authorized the transfer of 25 F-35A fighter jets and engines worth roughly $2.5 billion, U.S. officials said. The case was approved by Congress in 2008, so the department was not required to provide a new notification to lawmakers.

The MK84 and MK82 bombs authorized this week for transfer also were approved by Congress years ago but had not yet been fulfilled.

Washington's marginalization on the world stage over its support for Israel has rankled some Democrats in Congress, some of whom have called for more transparency in arms transfers and raised questions about whether the authorization of older unfilled cases is an effort to avoid new notifications to Congress, which could face scrutiny.

When asked about the transfers, a State Department official said that "fulfilling an authorization from one notification to Congress can result in dozens of individual Foreign Military Sales cases across the decades-long life-cycle of the congressional notification."

"As a matter of practicality, major procurements, like Israel's F-35 program for example, are often broken out into several cases over many years," the official added.

The 2,000 pound bombs, capable of leveling city blocks and leaving craters in the earth 40 feet across and larger, are almost never used anymore by Western militaries in densely populated locations due to the risk of civilian casualties.

Israel has used them extensively in Gaza, according to several reports, most notably in the bombing of Gaza's Jabalya refugee camp Oct. 31. U.N. officials decried the strike, which killed more than 100 people, as a "disproportionate attack that could amount to war crimes." Israel defended the bombing, saying it resulted in the death of a Hamas leader.

The Post's reporting on the new weapons authorizations follows a visit to Washington by Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant this week in which he requested that the Biden administration expedite a range of weaponry.

Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr., chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters Thursday that Israeli officials have been asking for weapons they consider important "in pretty much every meeting" he has been in with them.

Israel has "not received everything they've asked for," Brown said. The United States has withheld some, he said, either due to capacity limits or because U.S. officials were not willing at the time. Brown did not identify the weapons.

Hours later, the Pentagon clarified Brown's remarks, highlighting the issue's sensitivity. Navy Capt. Jereal Dorsey, a spokesman for the general, said there has been no change in policy and that the United States assesses its stockpiles as it provides aid to partners. "The United States continues to provide security assistance to our ally Israel as they defend themselves from Hamas," Dorsey said.

Advocates of the policy inside the administration say behind-the-scenes discussions with the Israelis have succeeded in delaying the country's Rafah operation, which they now don't expect to happen until May. But at least part of that delay is due to Israel's military operations in Khan Younis taking longer than anticipated.

Any increase in fighting in Rafah, a key transit point for humanitarian aid, risks exacerbating conditions across the enclave that the United Nations and aid groups say is suffering from chronic shortages of food, water and medicine. A massive influx of aid trucks is required to remedy the situation, but U.S. officials say Israel has imposed onerous restrictions on deliveries, which are deeply unpopular inside Netanyahu's far-right coalition government.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/29/us-weapons-israel-gaza-war/

https://archive.is/8ltqT

[Fambo Number Mive]

Al-Jazeera reports:

Massive overnight attacks took place again in central and northern Gaza, resulting in further displacement and civilian casualties.

In central Gaza, residential buildings were targeted and destroyed in both the Nuseirat and Maghazi refugee camps.

There were also attacks in Deir el-Balah, an area where people initially were told was safe to go. Civil defence crew and paramedics are struggling to recover the wounded due to a lack of equipment. They often use their bare hands and rely on volunteers from the area.

[Buelligan]

Perhaps Sir would like something for the weekend?  And forever.  https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/join-a-bds-campaign

[DelurkedToHelp]

UK government lawyers say Israel is breaking international law, claims top Tory in leaked recording

The British government has received advice from its own lawyers stating that Israel has breached international humanitarian law in Gaza but has failed to make it public, according to a leaked recording obtained by the Observer.

The comments, made by the Conservative chair of the House of Commons select committee on foreign affairs, Alicia Kearns, at a Tory fundraising event on 13 March are at odds with repeated ministerial denials and evasion on the issue.

On Saturday night, Kearns, a former Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence official, who has repeatedly pressed ministers, including foreign secretary David Cameron, on the legal advice they have received, stood by her comments and called for the government to come clean.

"I remain convinced the government has completed its updated assessment on whether Israel is demonstrating a commitment to international humanitarian law, and that it has concluded that Israel is not demonstrating this commitment, which is the legal determination it has to make," she said. "Transparency at this point is paramount, not least to uphold the international rules-based order."

The revelation will place Lord Cameron and prime minister Rishi Sunak under intense pressure because any such legal advice would mean the UK had to cease all arms sales to Israel without delay.

Legal experts said that not to do so would risk putting the UK in breach of international law itself, as it would be seen as aiding and abetting war crimes by a country it was exporting arms to.

Answering questions at an "evening drinks reception" hosted by the West Hampstead and Fortune Green Conservatives in London, Kearns said: "The Foreign Office has received official legal advice that Israel has broken international humanitarian law but the government has not announced it.

"They have not said it, they haven't stopped arms exports. They have done a few very small sanctions on Israeli settlers and everyone internationally is agreed that settlers are illegal, that they shouldn't be doing what they're doing, and the ways in which they have continued and the money that's been put in."

Kearns told the gathering that both she and Cameron believed strongly in Israel's right to defend itself. "But the right to self-defence has a limit in law. It is not limitless," she said, going on to suggest that Israel's actions put its and the UK's long-term security at risk.

"Some of the ways in which Israel is prosecuting this is making their long-term security less certain. It is making our long-term security less certain. I'm amazed that our national threat level has not gone up. And it breaks my heart because I know it could be done differently."

The British barrister and judge Sir Geoffrey Nice, who was the lead prosecutor at former Serbian president Slobodan Milošević's trial from 2002 to 2006, said he would not be at all surprised if such advice had been given by government lawyers and called for it to be made public.

Nice said: "A warring party becomes unlawful if it cannot show that its actions have been proportionate. It would not be surprising if there had been advice to that effect from the Foreign Office's lawyers."

Were that to be the case, he said that "at the very least that would mean the UK would have to look at the whole issue of arms sales to Israel. It takes you into the area of aiding and abetting. It takes you into to very difficult areas."

He added: "Countries supplying arms to Israel may now be complicit in criminal warfare. The public should be told what the advice says."

The UK's arms exports to Israel amounted to £42m in 2022, a figure described by defence secretary Grant Shapps as "relatively small".

But former lord chancellor Charles Falconer said a legal assessment that Israel had broken international law would also prevent the UK sharing intelligence with Israel.

"Governments who abide by the rule of law cannot ignore mounting evidence of breach which would then put those governments in breach if they continued assisting," he said.

In a session of the foreign affairs select committee in January, Cameron was asked directly by Kearns whether "you have never had a piece of paper put in front of you by a Foreign Office lawyer that says that Israel is in breach of its international humanitarian commitments under international humanitarian law".

Cameron stated that "I cannot recall every single bit of paper that has been put in front of me ... I don't want to answer that question."

He later said that "if you are asking me whether I am worried that Israel has taken action that might be in breach of international law ... yes, of course I am worried about that. That is why I consult the Foreign Office lawyers when giving this advice on arms exports."

Other UK ministers have previously claimed that Israel has abided by international law. In late November, business secretary Kemi Badenoch said on Sky News that "we've always said that Israel should abide by international law, and that appears to be what they have done ... It looks like they have taken great pains to make sure that they're staying within the confines of the law. We applaud them for that."

Labour has repeatedly called for the government to be transparent about the legal advice it has received.

On 22 March, David Lammy MP, the shadow foreign secretary, wrote to Cameron, calling on him to publish the legal advice on Israel's compliance with international humanitarian law.

On 26 March in the House of Commons, Lammy asked the minister for development and Africa, Andrew Mitchell MP, if the foreign secretary had received legal advice saying there was a clear risk that items licensed by the UK might be used to commit or facilitate a serious violation of international humanitarian law. Mitchell said "no government do[es] that", adding later that "we do not disclose our internal legal advice".

Last week, the international court of justice ordered Israel to allow unimpeded access of food aid into Gaza, where huge numbers of people are facing imminent starvation. Cameron has repeatedly voiced his frustration at Israel's action in blocking aid from crossing the border into Gaza.

A Foreign Office spokesperson said: "We keep advice on Israel's adherence to international humanitarian law under review and ministers act in accordance with that advice, for example, when considering export licences. The content of the government's advice is confidential."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/30/uk-government-lawyers-say-israel-is-breaking-international-law-claims-top-tory-in-leaked-recording

[shoulders]

Love the international rules based order.

Not only is it based, but they came back in 2001 to finish the job off with a splendid reunion tour.

[Fambo Number Mive]

In a session of the foreign affairs select committee in January, Cameron was asked directly by Kearns whether "you have never had a piece of paper put in front of you by a Foreign Office lawyer that says that Israel is in breach of its international humanitarian commitments under international humanitarian law".

Cameron stated that "I cannot recall every single bit of paper that has been put in front of me ... I don't want to answer that question."

If he truly cannot recall this, is he suitable to be Foreign Secretary? Fairly sure that answer wouldn't be accepted in most jobs, let alone one that was part of the government.

[Buelligan]

Just unable to process how or why we, us or our govenments, are able to let this continue.  What is the point of civilisation?  Or law?

[jamiefairlie]

Just unable to process how or why we, us or our govenments, are able to let this continue.  What is the point of civilisation?  Or law?

Law was created to assist rulers to rule ever larger groups of people and become more powerful and richer.

It still serves that purpose today so atrocities like this that clearly break laws are allowed to happen because it serves the purpose of those that rule.

[Buelligan]

I should have been clearer - after this, why should anyone abide by any law any longer? 

[Buelligan]

Many of us like to ask ourselves, 'What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you're doing it. Right now.