The New Chris Morris Project - Casting Breakdown

[Neil]

I think it's a bandwagon he's arguably had some small influence on with TDT and Brass Eye.  I vaguely recall an article where Jon Stewart was singing his praises.  Might be confusing it with the one where Janeane Garofalo said the same...or it could be that they were both geting interviewed?  I dunno, I'll Google some more.  I've finally been able to get all my old CaB stuff together thanks to this new puter, so likely have it lurking around here somewhere, I should have some cracking stuff to put up soon.  Other unlikely mentions of On The Hour alumni:  Steve Coogan and Rebecca Front are name-checked in Yo La Tengo's "Moonrock Mambo".  I've always wondered if that was in reference to Partridge or TDT...it's on a record with a (*fantastic) song called "Today Is The Day" so maybe it's the latter?!

* Fantastic in EP form anyway, I'd forgotten how dreary the album version is, bluuergh.

[El Unicornio, mang]

There was definitely an interview where Jon Stewart mentioned Morris but I can't seem to find it. Found one with SNL regular Jimmy Fallon praising him though

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_4_32/ai_85072594/pg_3

[TJ]

the London bombers weren't yelling in rage at the injustices of the Iraq war and the Palestine/Israel situation but acting more like pissed off, pompous, narcissistic adolescents, blowing themselves up in something like a more extreme version of self-harming.

Yeah, that was the one. I hope he dosn't go down that road, because it's such a reactionary view. It's the Tory attitude to any form of dissent: 'They're just showing off'.

See, this is what worries me a bit about it... I have to say that the majority of his recent work suggests a leaning in that direction, although he's clearly anti-Bush/Blair too, so fuck knows.

[Famous Mortimer]

I hope he does go down that road. In the case of several of the bombers/attempted bombers, there's no evidence that they were particularly interested in either militant islam or the suffering of Iraqi or Palestinian people. The contrast between the sort of lives they were leading and becoming a (attempted) suicide bomber is quite unsettling, and it's exactly the sort of thing I'd like to see Morris explore, if he's still up to it.

Whoever said it - I don't think going on the anti-war march was much of a lifestyle statement for most people. From my experience it was a long slow trudge, pretty silent and almost funereal. I didn't see much of people "hugging themselves" as Ian McEwan put it. A lot of them looked as though they felt quite awkward taking part in such an event.

"In the case of several"...gotta love those weasel words. Do you actually, seriously think a bunch of people deliberately killed themselves and thousands of other people to prove they're hard? Don't think it might have had something to do with the very specific brand of religious fanaticism they were indoctrinated with?

And I'm sorry the anti-war demo was so terrible, in your opinion. I had a great time, there were samba bands, huge groups of people chanting and singing, thousands of colourful banners and many thousands of happy people. You were obviously in a shitty part of the demo, but it's nice you're taking your own personal opinion and attempting to generalise it to everyone else who was there.

[IanW]

So at an angry anti-war march contemplating the massacre of hundreds of thousands there were

many thousands of happy people

Threeism: do you see there might be something to the argument about a lot of modern protest being a form of self-pleasure now?  I mean this isn't to tar everyone with the same brush, but might there be something in that point of view?

[Bean Is A Carrot]

Threeism: do you see there might be something to the argument about a lot of modern protest being a form of self-pleasure now?  I mean this isn't to tar everyone with the same brush, but might there be something in that point of view?

I find that an utterly ridiculous notion. I've been on about 15 anti war demos in the past five years. The first one was quite exciting, the second one was the amazing 15th February 2003 demo with between1-2 million people (the atmosphere was fantastic because people were really hopeful that they could stop the war) and after that it's all been downhill. As the war's dragged on it's been harder and harder to motivate myself to get out there and march. Have you ever been on a demo, Ian W? I suspect not because if you had you'd know how bloody tedious and tiring they are. Especially when even with a million people joining you, you get completely ignored.

[sick as a pike]

Just to dip into the argument here- I'd agree that marches are tedious and tiring but there can be a certain euphoria at times too- on the February 2003 one that's been mentioned I remember walking along Piccadilly and seeing for the first time the extent of the crowds in front and behind.  Just being with that number of like minded people is uplifting too.  
Certainly there are moments when one's  serious and angry but I don't think I'm capable of being entirely serious for that number of hours.

[Famous Mortimer]

So at an angry anti-war march contemplating the massacre of hundreds of thousands there were

many thousands of happy people

Threeism: do you see there might be something to the argument about a lot of modern protest being a form of self-pleasure now?  I mean this isn't to tar everyone with the same brush, but might there be something in that point of view?

It wasn't angry. They, by and large, haven't been - the people I spoke to were pleased to be at least trying to make a difference, happy to meet friends from all over the country, and there is a sense of euphoria at being among so many other people who share your views. There was some anger there but it's just wrong to call it an "angry anti-war march".

Your second statement is utterly ridiculous. I go on the anti-war demos because I believe in them. Maybe more people go on them now than went on them in previous decades because the arguments against war are stronger, and better put, and the arguments in favour of war are weaker?

These sort of statements are trying to belittle the very genuine and large protests that have been going on in this country, and I'm sad and a little baffled that people think that way. No-one could possibly want to go on an anti-war march because they're against the war, could they?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

There must be some line drawn between the anti-activism 'look at the stupid protestors' line and the anti-authoritarian line. It isn't possible to reconcile both those views, otherwise you're just saying "Everyone's dirt, and I'm the King." which is a pretty rubbish way to do satire.

Anyhow, I agree with Ken McDonald:

"London is not a battlefield. Those innocents who were murdered...were not victims of war. And the men who killed them were not, as in their vanity they claimed on their ludicrous videos, 'soldiers'. They were deluded, narcissistic inadequates. They were criminals. They were fantasists. We need to be very clear about this. On the streets of London there is no such thing as a war on terror. The fight against terrorism on the streets of Britain is not a war. It is the prevention of crime, the enforcement of our laws, and the winning of justice for those damaged by their infringement."

What is there to say that is fresh or new or original on this issue anyway? Given that, won't the finished product be fairly masturbatory and insular in nature, as Nathan Barley was? Given the immense amount of discussion on the issue in recent years on mass media, making a piece of work so late in the day sort of suggests you'd have something groundbreaking to say, yet for all the faith in Morris you could have, what is there to say, really? It seems like such a shame given that previous work even as late as BES was so well-timed- and even when dealing with perennial issues in the British media- Crime, AIDS, treatment of animals, moral decline, etc had a superb grasp of them all.

So in summary, belated and uninspired.....?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I think there's always been a narcissistic/self-pleasuring minority at protests - I daresay they were there at the Vietnam sit-ins and Greenham Common too. Trouble is, panicky rightwingers always use this as a way of discrediting the protest as a whole - the 'Come on, be honest, you're in the gutter with the rest of us, stop showing off' attitude. They feel threatend by any kind of ideologically-based stand. They had the same attitude to Michael Moore - citing the more cringeworthy elements of his films, or pointing out that he was actually an egotistical millionaire in real life...stuff that may well have been true, but still wasn't the real reason why they were irritated by him.

I remember during the Iraq war when teenagers held protests. All the right-wing columnists and shock jocks sneered that 'they're only doing it to get an afternoon off school'. You can be sure, though, that were the same teenagers to hold a 'Support Our Troops' demonstartion instead of an anti-war one, the same people would be wiping the tears from their eyes and saying how wonderful it was that kids were interested in politics.

[Neil]

What is there to say that is fresh or new or original on this issue anyway? Given that, won't the finished product be fairly masturbatory and insular in nature, as Nathan Barley was? Given the immense amount of discussion on the issue in recent years on mass media, making a piece of work so late in the day sort of suggests you'd have something groundbreaking to say, yet for all the faith in Morris you could have, what is there to say, really? It seems like such a shame given that previous work even as late as BES was so well-timed- and even when dealing with perennial issues in the British media- Crime, AIDS, treatment of animals, moral decline, etc had a superb grasp of them all.

So in summary, belated and uninspired.....?

It's hard to say, I mean, the precis in the casting breakdown doesn't mention suicide bombers, but you can speculate about how it might fit in given the character descriptions.  To me, though, it sounds more like a typical coming-of-age drama, I would say that's going to be the main focus.  The suicide bombing story may enter towards the end, or it may not be in it at all.  It's hard to know, Morris does have a track record of putting out disinformation.  IanW spotting him did match up with a previous report we heard, though.  To be honest, I'm hoping I've not circulated a masssive spoiler with the suicide bomber stuff!  At least I've got spoiler tags installed into the forum software now.

It's interesting that there's not even as much as a working title for this yet.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Isn't there stuff out there already like The Hamburg Cell to name one that did something like this? Of course this looks as though it's going to be centered around a British Muslim family unit and the outward Muslim 'community' if you could call it that. I just wonder if the central themes of the work haven't already been done, and done quite well. I don't want this to sound too unkind, but I doubt whether Chris has any extraordinary insight into the upbringing of muslims in the inner cities of our country. Perhaps you don't need to. I guess I'm just struggling to come to terms with CM involved with something mundane where in the past his work has always had to be significant. If he does create something fantastic this time, it'll be like watching someone pulling a rabbit out of a hat really, rather than "oh there he goes again, the endless genius." And I actually like BES and MyWrongs quite a lot.

[Johnny Yesno]

There do seem to be a number of people who turn up to protests for the fun of it. I don't know why because I could think of a ton of other things I'd rather have done on one of my days off than traipse round London for hours not knowing where I'm headed or when I'll get there. That "million man march" was exhausting and if it hadn't been about something I was really bothered about I'd have got fed up and gone home long before the end.

That said, I can see why people feel the need to make demos enjoyable when they could go on for hours. There's no point in purposefully being miserable. It also helps defuse any tension between protesters and police.

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

There are a number of works that have dealt with similar subjects (assuming it is about an Asian family, the way they perceive themselves etc and how disaffected youths may drift towards an extreme anti-Western worldview) - I mentioned White Teeth further up, and one of the plots in Syriana revolved around a young man's induction into a fundamentalist sect. There are many that I have never even encountered, I'm sure.

What I wonder is, will Morris be able to do all the character stuff? My Wrongs and Barley suffered a lot from this, despite Paddy Considine being in the former. Can he make us care?

[Neil]

What I wonder is, will Morris be able to do all the character stuff? My Wrongs and Barley suffered a lot from this, despite Paddy Considine being in the former. Can he make us care?

I really think he can, yes, but I think he again needs to find the balance between mapping out a characters history, and horribly over-writing the whole thing.  I mean, I'm extrapolating a lot from the likes of the frozen piss letters; for the dynamics of those to be successful, you have to be drawn into the story, you have to care about the characters.  Another good example was actually My Wrongs, where the main character has a lot of background detail that's really not obvious...with Barley too, he walks a fine line between intelligent writing, but fails and makes it too clever-clever and messy to work effectively.  

Back to My Wrongs though, I mean, I flipped out when I finally figured out that there was a whole story behind the listing of the wrongs...there was a whole logic to it (see here for anyone who's interested.  And I only got that because Trisha posted a pic from the rushes, and m...wW(wwMww)Ww...m helped identify the book that was sticking out.  As I recall, in the actual thing there's a shot of the book's spine in focus, then the focus quickly switches to Him, but really, the book is always obscured, so even though it's obvious it has some relevance, you're shit out of luck trying to decode it unless you're fortunate enough to have someone like m...wW(wwMww)Ww...m round.

it's the opposite of Nathan Barley where you were largely getting battered over the head with stuff.  I believe that Morris clearly has the intelligence and talent to write narrative that's as wonderfully realised and exciting as e.g. The Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind, but he's just not there yet, he's really struggling to get the balance right.  Even in Barley...the ideas are there, they just don't come together in a satisfying or watchable manner.

"Hot Biscuits"

[Neil]

After reading back that My Wrongs stuff, I'm reminded how it suddenly shot up in my estimation after that.  I find it really exciting again now just reading all that, and I was pretty damn ambivalent to My Wrongs originally, it was very nyeh, not too funny, not that interesting.  But beneath the surface there's this whole other dimension to the character and the story, it's this slavish devotion to self-help dogma mixed with extreme schizophrenia and addiction.

What Morris has to do, I think, is start leaving people slightly confused.

[ffogems]

I think this could really interesting. There'll no doubt be some (apposite) ambiguities of intent and ideology within the group; with some people rigidly adhering to doctrine and others loosely pick-pocketing bits from all over to justify their purpose. In fact, I think the characters' complexity are going to be the only thing that can make this work, really. It should be a study of extreme political motivation, not a slapdash collage of point-finger media clippings, which it could so easily be.
I wonder, though, if Chris Morris will be able to refrain from implicitly 'commenting'. It's hard to write a line of dialogue, set a scene or build a character without doing it from a particular 'stance' that inevitably seeps through. He'll have to work very hard to keep it ambiguous, as leaning far to the left or far the right would be far too easy- balancing a teeter and waver down the dividing line is going to be very tricky, but the only way he can do it I think.

[Marvin]

In terms of the comments about marches etc, I agree very much with Bean is a Carrot, the Feb 2003 one did have elements of celebration to it but that was because everyone was astounded by the number of people, and whether naively or not, believed that this had to have an impact. On the whole demos are a lot of hard work and aching legs and not overly enjoyable.

In relation to that and Chris Morris, it's worth bearing in mind that he was on the Feb 2003 march himself.

[threeism]

So at an angry anti-war march contemplating the massacre of hundreds of thousands there were

many thousands of happy people

Threeism: do you see there might be something to the argument about a lot of modern protest being a form of self-pleasure now?  I mean this isn't to tar everyone with the same brush, but might there be something in that point of view?

Yes. I had doubts about exactly why I was on that demonstration. The main reservation I have is that part of the reason that many people go is that they want to be among others who feel as they do. I don't think that's a good reason to go on a protest.

Also I agree with your ironic quote of the "many thousands of happy people". I find the idea of that, with the talking about samba bands and dancing and so on, quite sick. It really does indicate a narcissistic attitude to me. Luckily, that wasn't my personal experience.

[threeism]

I hope he does go down that road. In the case of several of the bombers/attempted bombers, there's no evidence that they were particularly interested in either militant islam or the suffering of Iraqi or Palestinian people. The contrast between the sort of lives they were leading and becoming a (attempted) suicide bomber is quite unsettling, and it's exactly the sort of thing I'd like to see Morris explore, if he's still up to it.

"In the case of several"...gotta love those weasel words. Do you actually, seriously think a bunch of people deliberately killed themselves and thousands of other people to prove they're hard? Don't think it might have had something to do with the very specific brand of religious fanaticism they were indoctrinated with?

It's a lot more complicated than that, and what I would hope is that Morris would try to generate uncertainty, as Neil said.
This is a relevant news article but it's too awkward to quote -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4678837.stm

[Harfyyn Teuport]

The BBC link above displays this pic beside its profile of Mohammad Khan, one of the July bombers;



Is it just me or is that a very professional, promo-style shot? It looks like something you'd find in a university prospectus.

[Slaaaaabs]

The BBC link above displays this pic beside its profile of Mohammad Khan, one of the July bombers;

(picture)

Is it just me or is that a very professional, promo-style shot? It looks like something you'd find in a university prospectus.

Says to the left of the picture...

"The 30-year-old had been a teaching assistant at Hillside Primary School in Leeds since 2002. "

That one must be hard to explain to the kids.

[R. Sparts]

Yes. I had doubts about exactly why I was on that demonstration. The main reservation I have is that part of the reason that many people go is that they want to be among others who feel as they do. I don't think that's a good reason to go on a protest. .

But surely, having a large group of people who feel the same way is the whole point of the protest?  People went on the Stop The War march, or the Countryside Alliance march, in order to demonstrate how many people shared that common view

[Garfield And Friends]

"The 30-year-old had been a teaching assistant at Hillside Primary School in Leeds since 2002. "

That one must be hard to explain to the kids.

"He da bomb!"


see? easy, if ur down wiv da kidz

[Pinball]

Yes. I had doubts about exactly why I was on that demonstration. The main reservation I have is that part of the reason that many people go is that they want to be among others who feel as they do. I don't think that's a good reason to go on a protest. .

But surely, having a large group of people who feel the same way is the whole point of the protest?  People went on the Stop The War march, or the Countryside Alliance march, in order to demonstrate how many people shared that common view

And what a difference it made.

[solidified gruel merchant]

I remember during the Iraq war when teenagers held protests. All the right-wing columnists and shock jocks sneered that 'they're only doing it to get an afternoon off school'. You can be sure, though, that were the same teenagers to hold a 'Support Our Troops' demonstartion instead of an anti-war one, the same people would be wiping the tears from their eyes and saying how wonderful it was that kids were interested in politics.

And then it would be the left saying "they only want a day off school".
Horses for courses.

That's assuming you buy into the rather simplistic notion that the right = pro war and the left = anti war.

[Johnny Yesno]

After reading back that My Wrongs stuff, I'm reminded how it suddenly shot up in my estimation after that.

Even the title suddenly goes from sounding well random to making perfect sense when you know about the book.

[Bigflood]

Edit - Never Mind

[Dark Poet]

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/tv/2007/03/satirical_extremist.html

Like salivating bloodhounds, the verbwhores on Chris Morris forums are sniffing out evidence of his latest work . . .

[TJ]

So it's officially 'The Satire That Had To Be Made', then?

Last one out close the door please...