Cook'd and Bomb'd

Forums => Live Die Live => Topic started by: AngryGazelle on August 02, 2021, 03:52:55 PM

Title: Deathloop
Post by: AngryGazelle on August 02, 2021, 03:52:55 PM
New game from the developers of Dishonoured and Prey -- looks pretty cool actually, like a more action-focused Dishonoured where you're not made to feel like stealth is the 'real' way to play (not that that's a bad thing, more like a nice change of pace).

Anyone gonna pick this up? Preorders come with a discount if you have a Playstation Plus subscription.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: evilcommiedictator on August 03, 2021, 04:59:36 AM
Gameplay video from a few weks ago for it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTnzLC6Utk0

It's from Arkane, so if you liked Prey, Dishonoured, they're trying to do cool world and story stuff like System Shock
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Timothy on August 03, 2021, 08:13:02 AM
I love the Arkane games. As of now I'm planning to wait until it arrives on Xbox/Gamepass but I probably buy it day one anyway....
The trailers are amazing and I can't wait.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: ArchieGemmel on August 03, 2021, 11:41:41 AM
I've been waiting patiently for it to come out. Got it on pre-order. Have loved the Dishonored games but as the OP says I am looking forward to playing it a bit more actioney instead of having to constantly sneak around everywhere.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on August 03, 2021, 12:07:10 PM
I don't have a PS5 or a beefy enough PC to play this, which is annoying, as I'm a big Dishonored fan and the time loop structure looks intriguing.

I wonder what it's going to be like for replay value. After you've completed it once, would subsequent plays be over in ten minutes? I assume the loop can't be too long, because it would be too much of a slog to repeat every time you get killed. Maybe things will be randomised each time you start a new game.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: bgmnts on August 03, 2021, 12:13:20 PM
Definitely going to pick this up.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on August 03, 2021, 12:48:54 PM
Never enjoyed these Arkane games, personally. I'm not surprised they're all on Game Pass as they are the epitome of Game Pass fodder. I'd rather stare at a turned off TV and just think about something else. That said, I'm happy for the fans that they keep churning them out.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on August 03, 2021, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on August 03, 2021, 12:07:10 PM
I wonder what it's going to be like for replay value. After you've completed it once, would subsequent plays be over in ten minutes? I assume the loop can't be too long, because it would be too much of a slog to repeat every time you get killed. Maybe things will be randomised each time you start a new game.
Presumably Prey: Mooncrash might be a guide.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on August 03, 2021, 12:57:28 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on August 03, 2021, 12:48:54 PM
I'm not surprised they're all on Game Pass as they are the epitome of Game Pass fodder.
I think that's an odd view - there aren't many other high production quality vaguely 'immersive sim'-type games to compare with, for one thing (although increasingly there's things like Gloomwood and Peripeteia).

I think it's more that Microsoft are putting everything from the studios they've bought on there - but I guess that also shifts the sense of "Game Pass fodder".
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on August 03, 2021, 01:49:23 PM
It's all Bethesda mulch to me, but I'm glad some people enjoy these games.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Ferris on August 03, 2021, 02:01:54 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on August 03, 2021, 01:49:23 PM
It's all Bethesda mulch to me, but I'm glad some people enjoy these games.

Prey was a terrific game and worth your time. The first 20 minutes or so is properly good sci fi, download it and play that. If you're still not mad keen then you are missing out but fair play.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: bgmnts on August 03, 2021, 02:04:24 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on August 03, 2021, 01:49:23 PM
It's all Bethesda mulch to me, but I'm glad some people enjoy these games.

Hehe
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on August 03, 2021, 02:05:20 PM
I did manage about half an hour but I don't like immersive sims. Reminds me of 90s PC gaming. No slight on anyone who enjoys them.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Ferris on August 03, 2021, 02:31:36 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on August 03, 2021, 02:05:20 PM
I did manage about half an hour but I don't like immersive sims. Reminds me of 90s PC gaming. No slight on anyone who enjoys them.

Really? Fair enough, the first 30 mins are the most impressive bit in terms of story and
Spoiler alert
the opening plot twist
[close]
. The gameplay after that is also very solid tbh.

Deathloop looks good though, same kind of neo '60s aesthetic that was the only successful bit of We Happy Few.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: AngryGazelle on August 03, 2021, 06:24:26 PM
I will add that it looks like it's not taking itself too seriously and has a cool soundtrack too
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Blue Jam on August 10, 2021, 03:02:28 PM
Quote from: Zetetic on August 03, 2021, 12:49:03 PM
Presumably Prey: Mooncrash might be a guide.

Yes, this sounds a bit like Mooncrash to me. Did another playthrough of Prey recently, but while I possibly enjoyed Mooncrash a little more I doubt I'll replay it again. Once you've worked out how to
Spoiler alert
escape Pytheas five times in five different ways in one playthrough
[close]
that's pretty much it. It's a delightfully imaginative reworking of Prey which uses the same universe and lore for a game which feels completely different, but it was a one-time experience for me. Bit like Subnautica once you've figured out the escape route there.

Need to get a PS5 right now don't I? Been holding off because I've only just got an Oculus Quest 2 and another purchase right now would feel a bit decadent. How do you go about getting a PS5 now without going through some greedy bastard on eBay?
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on August 10, 2021, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: Blue Jam on August 10, 2021, 03:02:28 PM
How do you go about getting a PS5 now without going through some greedy bastard on eBay?

It's very competitive but possible.

Follow the account below on Twitter and turn on Push Notifications. There are many similar accounts now but this is the best one.

https://twitter.com/UKPS5Notify?s=09

You'll have about twenty seconds at most when you get a notification - and there's no guarantee even if you click on it immediately - but this is the best way. There's also a Discord you can join and do the same thing, if you don't use Twitter. I'm not being dramatic but there's absolutely no chance of getting one otherwise.

My mate followed this recently and got one but it took him about two weeks and he said he missed out half a dozen times. Real talk, it won't be too long before the Christmas shoppers start getting involved so even though stock is rare now, I think it'll get more difficult down the line.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Blue Jam on August 10, 2021, 03:54:22 PM
I believe you on the 20 second rule there Chedders- been checking out stock updates elsewhere and every single link leads to "sold out", every single time.

Big thanks, will get myself primed for a purchase!
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on August 10, 2021, 03:57:35 PM
👍
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: AngryGazelle on September 14, 2021, 04:45:21 PM
Anyone buying this today? I think I'll get it at some point but not right now.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: bgmnts on September 14, 2021, 05:08:23 PM
Will probably wait for the inevitable addition to GamePass in a few months or until it's on offer, as much as I love Arkane games.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Pink Gregory on September 14, 2021, 05:19:26 PM
Cannot wait to play this in 2-3 years when I've finally finished Dishonored 2 and Prey
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: brat-sampson on September 14, 2021, 06:03:02 PM
Quote from: bgmnts on September 14, 2021, 05:08:23 PM
Will probably wait for the inevitable addition to GamePass in a few months or until it's on offer, as much as I love Arkane games.

I think the PS5 Exclusivity is 12 months, so I'd expect it on Game pass for console and PC next September.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chairman Yang on September 14, 2021, 10:39:13 PM
I just started playing Mooncrash after it being sat in my library for years so, aye... Deathloop is set to be my GOTY 2036
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: evilcommiedictator on September 15, 2021, 12:40:02 AM
Watched a few streams last night, looks a lot more like Dishonored 3 than Prey 2 (or indeed, BioShock-esque). Going to leave this one till the xmas sales or maybe later when DLC comes out :)
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Timothy on September 15, 2021, 08:35:00 AM
Looks great. Still debating if I buy it at Black Friday or if I wait until it arrives on Gamepass.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: madhair60 on September 15, 2021, 12:40:50 PM
i bought it. its good. cheers
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on September 15, 2021, 06:01:05 PM
Sorely tempting me.

Any views on the significance of the multiplayer aspect? (Although I guess it'll see a surge in a new activity whenever it does arrive on Game Pass).
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on September 15, 2021, 06:21:57 PM
Looks absolutely crap, but hope you guys enjoy it.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: evilcommiedictator on September 16, 2021, 02:58:34 AM
Quote from: Timothy on September 15, 2021, 08:35:00 AM
or if I wait until it arrives on Gamepass.
It won't for a bit, even though it is a Bethesda-published title, because the PS exclusivity was signed before the Microsoft buyout
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2020/09/21/xbox-honor-bethesda-ps5-exclusives-deals/
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Inspector Norse on September 16, 2021, 07:34:36 AM
They've said it'll arrive on XBox late next year, which is fine by me because I won't have a next-gen console until next summer at the earliest I reckon.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Timothy on September 16, 2021, 12:45:49 PM
Does Deathloop make good use of the Dualsense?
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: madhair60 on September 16, 2021, 04:10:21 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on September 15, 2021, 06:21:57 PM
Looks absolutely crap, but hope you guys enjoy it.

its good mate
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on September 16, 2021, 05:13:20 PM
Just can't imagine a game doing the same thing over and over again being any good.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on September 16, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Most games involve some sort of experiential loop, not least some of the ones you've seemed very enamoured with. For example, Dark Souls gameplay notably has a heavy focus on repetition - albeit of a form and to an end that I don't personally care for.

I think there's a difference with a timeloop as a narrative device, and a very static loop of experience in actually playing the game. Having not played Deathloop, I can't speak to it, but The Outer Wilds is a neat example of changing your experience of a small but varied environment by developing a combination of your gameplay skills, you understanding of how to navigate it, and your understanding of what any of it means.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on September 16, 2021, 05:28:02 PM
I guess there's a similarity to the Metroidvania discussion, about whether you can change how someone plays through a place/time by having them bring something new to it - whether that's the sort of explicit additions to mechanics that Metroidvanias emphasise or something about the player themselves (skills, practical understanding, narrative knowledge).
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on September 16, 2021, 06:05:59 PM
Quote from: Zetetic on September 16, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Most games involve some sort of experiential loop, not least some of the ones you've seemed very enamoured with.

Yeah, basically all the games I play are absurdly repetitive and I usually play them in an absurdly repetitive way. It was a deliberately dumb joke at my own expense.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: madhair60 on September 16, 2021, 07:54:14 PM
i got the joke :) im clevr
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on September 16, 2021, 08:09:49 PM
Ah. Sorry.

I would be interested to know if Deathloop mostly relies on developing the player's skills or knowledge, or if there's some mechanical aspect to improving through the loops. (But I'm trying to avoid watching people play it...)
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on September 21, 2021, 04:27:17 PM
Btw just to say had some vouchers for my bday so I got on this a couple of days after release.  Not had much time to play it but what I have is really good.  There is a reason it is getting 10s and it is because it has tried to do something new and very interesting.   It plays very much like Dishonoured but combine that with The Witness/Hitman and you are close.

There is a mission in the first Dishonoured where you have assassinate someone at a party - if you enjoyed that (and I thought is was highlight of the game) well this is the game of that really.

Quote from: Zetetic on September 16, 2021, 08:09:49 PM
I would be interested to know if Deathloop mostly relies on developing the player's skills or knowledge, or if there's some mechanical aspect to improving through the loops. (But I'm trying to avoid watching people play it...)

Knowledge is the big thing and it's great! you are essentially having to work out what is going on how to track down your enemies which the added twist that this is all happening in one day that you are looping through (that means different things happen at different times of the day in different areas - there are four areas and four times; so really there are 16 "levels").  Its rouge-like but in a different manner to normal as you learn stuff on each run (and there is a lot to learn) a bit like Groundhog Day you learn where traps and enemies are going to be and gather information; but you can also save items if you get enough residuum (think souls) that will stay with you through your loops (and in this some items might give you skills).

It's really good and very clever; I imagine this will be a big hit - the people that are moaning about it basically are upset it isn't a standard FPS it is a FPS puzzler I guess.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: bgmnts on September 21, 2021, 05:28:48 PM
Cheers for letting me know how good it is now I have to wait ages for a good game finally.

You bastards!
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on September 21, 2021, 08:11:59 PM
Interesting perspective, Trent.

Most of what I've read says that it's fun enough, great voice work, but entirely fails to live up to the concept they missold. It spoonfeeds you to fuck and is linear as a cunt. Requires zero player creativity, just the ability to do as you're told in sequence, with added patronisation if you dither.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on September 21, 2021, 09:14:17 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on September 21, 2021, 08:11:59 PM
Interesting perspective, Trent.

Most of what I've read says that it's fun enough, great voice work, but entirely fails to live up to the concept they missold. It spoonfeeds you to fuck and is linear as a cunt. Requires zero player creativity, just the ability to do as you're told in sequence, with added patronisation if you dither.

I'd say that is complete rubbish.

I've noticed these criticisms and they really do sound like people that either haven't played the game or just don't "get" what the game is trying to do.

First of this linear stuff - complete bullshit; you've got 8 bosses to kill; which you can do in any order you like and in lots of different ways (it's just the same as Dishonoured in this sense that each level has multiple ways to go with things to do/or not do that might assist you in your goals); each area is open-world so again getting across the map has multiple routes  - it's more open world than Dishonoured or Prey but it isn't true sandbox and it shouldn't be (hard to explain why without giving too much away).  I took a gamble on this because I saw 10/10 reviews and then people getting the hump about it; really glad I did because seeing these "linear" comments can't be genuine. 

Also no idea about the spoon-feeding; it was a little bit dull and off for the first 10 minutes but this is explaining the loop; it's basically the tutorial.  After that I barely know what is going on but in a good way as you trying to work out the mysteries in the world.  Basically you have to read and use lateral thinking - I honestly think this has pissed people off (well that plus console wars and the fact the two main characters are black).  It's great.

None of what you have said rings true even slightly and I mean as in they don't seem to match up to this game.

It is also a complete work of art; I've heard some people slagging off the graphics - they are good and it has that Arkane stylisms - it is massively impressive to look at (you can see all parts for island in some views - and it gives you a sense of worldliness like dark souls).  I've got some legitimate criticisms of the game but I'll spoiler them
Spoiler alert
moving between areas via the tunnels - kind of your nexus; could have been better and they could have made a few more abilities etc.. but seriously this isn't a big deal, I also think I prefer the drab dishonoured style rather than eternalist enemies - though they are great characters and quite funny; they should have kept the karma stuff from dishonoured also
[close]
none of them are this linear/zero creativity.....nah seems totally off.  It's a blast.  I'd highly recommend it if puzzling, stealth and exploration are your things - if you want a standard FPS get on the COD shite asap.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on September 21, 2021, 09:37:26 PM
Cheers for expanding. It's not something I expect will be up my street, but I appreciate the reply. I generally find the Arkane games unsatisfying and I don't tend to enjoy first-person games full stop, besides some Battlefield. I did think about picking it up though because I'm not playing much else at the moment besides revisiting Dark Souls 2, and there are fuck all decent games out.

I was genuinely interested in your perspective because what I read on Resetera was mostly disappointment from people who have finished it. I find Era to be full of wankers, like almost all gaming communities, so it was good to read a counterpoint.

It's something I'll possibly pick up in a sale because I don't really like immersive sims, nor the Arkane aesthetic or writing, but mostly I've not got a lot of interest in games at the moment. That said, it was entertaining to read your experience and it's taken me from no interest to something I'll defo check out in in the sale. Cheers.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on September 21, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
I'd say if weren't keen on Dishonoured then definitely pick up later. (have you tried Prey? that might be something to try in the meantime as should be cheap)

I think the contention people have is that it isn't a "perfect" game so why is it getting a "perfect score" I think this is because it is genuinely trying to do something different and it should be encouraged - if people had stuck 9 on it then I don't think there would have been a problem.  I don't think it is better than Returnal fwiw but it's so different it is hard to compare; it is easy to see how this game will bring some people immense joy.  Another thing I'd say is it isn't hard in the normal sense of the word; but like Dishonoured if you are trying to be completionist and carry out assassinations certain ways you are going to have to work for it.  If you play this game like an FPS; running and gunning all the way to the marker you are never going to the get the most out of it.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: madhair60 on September 22, 2021, 01:01:06 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on September 21, 2021, 09:37:26 PMthere are fuck all decent games out.

Cruis'n Blast just came out!
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Timothy on September 25, 2021, 08:01:27 AM
Any advice for new players? I started this yesterday and am not sure I'm playing it right.

Spoiler alert
I have killed three visionairs. Apparently there is a book with ways to kill them but I got two of them killed by turrets and with one of them I didn't even know he was in the room because I hacked the turret through a rather small window and suddenly got a trophy.
[close]

Feels like I am not playing this right because as of now it just seems like a stealthy shooter without the creative ways of killing that I enjoyed in Dishonored.

Something isnt clicking and I am not sure what.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on September 26, 2021, 08:17:30 PM
Hmmm I've not really been able to play much of it but there
Spoiler alert
is definitely a way of decompressing the whole lab in the complex that will kill everyone in it
[close]
.  I think there might be some issues depending on which order you go about things as I think you can miss information that you need to do different things at different times/places
Spoiler alert
it is a bit disappointing but I'm not sure you can poison people I don't know though not got to far
[close]
.

Thing I would say is just remember you might have killed two visionaries but they are not dead; they are still alive as soon as the next loop starts so killing a boss isn't like killing a boss in a normal game, which is what I was saying about these criticisms of it being linear not making sense.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on September 26, 2021, 09:20:29 PM
Have you played many roguelikes, Trent? Not a loaded question or gotcha. Just that this does seem quite narrow compared to the pre-release marketing. Having read more and watched some midgame footage, it doesn't appear that there's anything novel about it from a gameplay or structural perspective. I expected something closer to Hitman but it doesn't seem to offer anything like that kind of freedom. Not a problem if it wasn't intended that way, and it's daft when people criticise a game for what was only ever in their head, but the marketing and hype suggested more diverse and creative options than the narrow solutions available.

I will pick it up, anyway. I'm going to give Death Stranding a proper go first but I'll get it next.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on September 26, 2021, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on September 26, 2021, 09:20:29 PM
Have you played many roguelikes, Trent? Not a loaded question or gotcha. Just that this does seem quite narrow compared to the pre-release marketing. Having read more and watched some midgame footage, it doesn't appear that there's anything novel about it from a gameplay or structural perspective. I expected something closer to Hitman but it doesn't seem to offer anything like that kind of freedom. Not a problem if it wasn't intended that way, and it's daft when people criticise a game for what was only ever in their head, but the marketing and hype suggested more diverse and creative options than the narrow solutions available.

I will pick it up, anyway. I'm going to give Death Stranding a proper go first but I'll get it next.

I don't really get the gaming lingo.  You mean roguelikes i.e. you die and start again (Dark Souls, Hades etc..) if so yes it is my preferred genre I think.   I'm also not sure on the pre-release stuff I'm not someone that follows games (I also don't buy many probably 2-3 a year) so I've probably missed some of the hype.

I think you need to define gameplay or structural perspective if you are talking about how it plays i.e. technically then no their isn't but if we are talking how the game plays i.e. proceeds then it is quiet novel to me.  Ah I think I might have just realised
your roguelike comment is on a misunderstanding from me not explaining things properly.

In Darks Souls you die and the boss and enemies return you go back to the boss.  In Deathloop you have to kill all the bosses in one day (loop); not one life (though if you die you restart the loop) as you go along you collect information which you retain which gives you clues as to how you might be able to kill all 8 in one day/loop as you can't do it all in one go because the bosses are in different places at different times (sometimes unreachable in the same place at the same time) i.e. if there were 2 bosses in different areas at each time point you could kill them all in one day; but this isn't the case some bosses are doing things and are in other areas so you have to do things that change the course of the loop i.e. change what is going to happen in the day to actually complete it.  You can't leave an area without time moving on; you are constrained by this and always moving forward through the day.

That seems quite unique to me as a concept.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on September 27, 2021, 07:05:33 AM
I don't think that Dark Souls is generally counted as a "roguelike" - deaths don't really involve a reset of a "run" and the lack of randomisation means that it doesn't treat player knowledge in the same way

But then most timeloop games don't strongly resemble roguelikes either, so perhaps I'm missing the point.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: ImmaculateClump on September 27, 2021, 11:12:30 AM
Yeah, sounds like deathloop is more like cruise for a corpse, dead rising, that sort of thing.

It's definitely not a roguelike, they are all turn based.
It's definitely not a rogeulite because it doesn't have procedural generation.

I think it's because if you die, you restart from the beginning, you know, like what used to happen in all games before they became mollycoddling interactive movies for morons? That's what's confusing the dolts.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on September 27, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
roguelikes and roguelites - I've no idea.

Anyway I've not played any time-loop games before so perhaps this isn't new and you should all avoid it.  I buy about 3 games a year tops (so far Returnal and now this and I took 6 months to complete Returnal) so don't take my word for anything when it comes to this stuff.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on September 27, 2021, 12:01:10 PM
I think it's probably silly to insist on essential characteristics for any kind of "-like". "Like" means a resemblance, and things can resemble each other or family of things in different ways.

But I do think there is a qualitative difference in how player and player-character development happens between timeloop games (which are clearly a genre in themselves, being explored in different ways) and roguelikes.

QuoteI think it's because if you die, you restart from the beginning
Although I think the point with timeloop games is that the "restarting" has a different quality, and are less fundamentally about 'losing'.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on September 27, 2021, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: TrenterPercenter on September 27, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Anyway I've not played any time-loop games before so perhaps this isn't new and you should all avoid it.
I think your posts are interesting, as someone who might play the game sooner or later, and I'm glad that you're making them.

I think that Arkane's work is mostly about exploring the interactions of mechanics (unsurprisingly, given the emphasis on immersive sims) rather than novelty.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: ImmaculateClump on September 27, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Quote from: TrenterPercenter on September 27, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
roguelikes and roguelites - I've no idea.

Anyway I've not played any time-loop games before so perhaps this isn't new and you should all avoid it.  I buy about 3 games a year tops (so far Returnal and now this and I took 6 months to complete Returnal) so don't take my word for anything when it comes to this stuff.

Sorry, Trenter, I wasn't having a go at you, more the sort of gaming forum twat who'll just vomit up buzzwords randomly when describing a game they're playing.
Oh, they'll be pedantic when someone uses a word wrong, but they're allowed to play fast and loose with random genre terms.

"Oh wow, you're gonna love this, it's a lot like *some game they mistakenly think is obscure and will give them kudos*, it's the best moba I've played since darksouls!

Quote from: Zetetic on September 27, 2021, 12:01:10 PMI think it's probably silly to insist on essential characteristics for any kind of "-like". "Like" means a resemblance, and things can resemble each other or family of things in different ways.

No, they're accepted genre terms, they're being used as shorthand to quickly convey the games main mechanics to other people. If you use them incorrectly, you may as well not use them.

Calling this game a roguelike makes exactly the same amount of sense as calling mario a real time strategy game.
"Ah, but I strategically bounce on mushroom heads in real time"

Who's that youtube lad who always sounds like he's whining and asking you lots of questions? I watched random bits of his video at launch and didn't like the sound of any of it. I love a good first person shooter, but this didn't sound worth my time at all.

edit: That's him, gman - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuwVZkgDkmM
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: HamishMacbeth on September 27, 2021, 01:06:37 PM
Yeah, without being a compares-everything-to-dark-souls guy, the timeloop mechanic is more like Dark Souls's resetting enemies than, say, 12 Minutes where the idea is actually to memorise where everything is going to be at a specific time and exploit it. Your goal is more to find ways to make permanent changes that make your job easier, or find info that unlocks shortcuts, than to just memorise the loop over and over again until you get it perfectly.

I'm liking the game a lot, and I think what I appreciate about it is that you *can* wing it, discover stuff, memorise things, piece it all together, but if you want a more straightforward AAA experience, you can also just follow questlines that will carry you through the important bits of the loop, then store the info for when you're ready to make your final run.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Zetetic on September 27, 2021, 01:25:15 PM
Quote from: ImmaculateClump on September 27, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Calling this game a roguelike makes exactly the same amount of sense as calling mario a real time strategy game.
I agree - but not because it fails to meet a single condition on a checklist, but because it fails to resemble games that are generally agreed to be roguelikes (and resembles many games that are generally agreed not to be) in many ways that we think are relevant.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: ImmaculateClump on September 27, 2021, 01:41:39 PM
Yeah, yeah, it wasn't a photo finish. It's obvious to most of us, but games journalist still find it tricky.
I was just trying to quickly say why, in a guess who sort of way, it clearly didn't belong to either of those genres. He hasn't got a beard and he hasn't got glasses.

I'll tell you what you will like if you DO fancy a roguelite first person shooter, and that's Gunfire Reborn. It's great solo, you don't need to play with other people - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1217060/Gunfire_Reborn/
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on September 27, 2021, 02:31:18 PM
No offence taken guys - I was just pointing out the limits of my knowledge on these things.  Hopefully I'll get to play a bit more of Deathloop on the weekend if I can get off CAB and get on with my work : )
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 27, 2021, 03:58:08 PM
Shirley the most apt comparison is with Zelda: Majora's Mask?
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: HamishMacbeth on September 27, 2021, 05:10:20 PM
Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 27, 2021, 03:58:08 PM
Shirley the most apt comparison is with Zelda: Majora's Mask?

A little bit, but the big difference is time in Deathloop isn't continuously ticking away, it's broken down into 4 areas, and 4 times of day, but each combination represents a sort of fixed status. So, for example, "Area A, Evening" might have an open door that isn't there in the morning, but there isn't a point in time where someone comes to open the door, the status is basically fixed until you leave the area and advance to the next block of time. So following routines is less a matter of "I have to be here at 3:15 and catch this guy as we he walks across a bridge" and more like "I need to make this choice in Area B, Noon to affect to layout of Area D, Evening."
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Timothy on September 28, 2021, 09:52:55 AM
Quote from: TrenterPercenter on September 26, 2021, 08:17:30 PM
Hmmm I've not really been able to play much of it but there
Spoiler alert
is definitely a way of decompressing the whole lab in the complex that will kill everyone in it
[close]
.  I think there might be some issues depending on which order you go about things as I think you can miss information that you need to do different things at different times/places
Spoiler alert
it is a bit disappointing but I'm not sure you can poison people I don't know though not got to far
[close]
.

Thing I would say is just remember you might have killed two visionaries but they are not dead; they are still alive as soon as the next loop starts so killing a boss isn't like killing a boss in a normal game, which is what I was saying about these criticisms of it being linear not making sense.

Thanks for your reply! I think that, at first, I didn't really get what the game was asking from me and tried to play it too much as a Dishonored game. Played for a few more hours and are more into it now. Things are starting to make more sense. Really enjoying it so far.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Timothy on September 30, 2021, 07:20:34 AM
Finished it. At a certain point it all makes sense and then you just have to follow the dots to get to the end.

Great game. Didn't enjoy it as much as Dishonored (one of my favorite Arkane series) but definitely better than Prey. Great use of the haptic feedback.

Going to replay some stages the next couple of days. Lots of side quests still to find I think!
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Blue Jam on September 30, 2021, 09:17:35 AM
This anything like Prey: Mooncrash then?

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on September 21, 2021, 10:03:21 PM
have you tried Prey?

I don't think Chedney is a fan (https://image.emojipng.com/812/8812.jpg) (https://image.emojipng.com/812/8812.jpg) (https://image.emojipng.com/812/8812.jpg)
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on October 01, 2021, 12:34:17 PM
Quote from: Timothy on September 30, 2021, 07:20:34 AM
Finished it. At a certain point it all makes sense and then you just have to follow the dots to get to the end.

Great game. Didn't enjoy it as much as Dishonored (one of my favorite Arkane series) but definitely better than Prey. Great use of the haptic feedback.

Going to replay some stages the next couple of days. Lots of side quests still to find I think!

Cool hopefully I might get sometime on the weekend to play it a bit - I'm currently 5% completed (it says)
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Chedney Honks on October 01, 2021, 12:39:46 PM
Update: I really enjoyed Deathloop, but unfortunately I didn't really get the whole timeloop elements of the game, because I finished it first go.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on October 01, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
Quote from: Blue Jam on September 30, 2021, 09:17:35 AM
This anything like Prey: Mooncrash then?

I've not played that and I didn't even know it existed so thanks might have a go on it as I really enjoyed Prey.   Sometimes games just hit me at the right time in life; I'm struggling to get to play Deathloop for any long period which I think is what you need to do to really get into it. Prey funnily was like this for in the cold isolated feel to it all a love a game I can switch of the lights and pretend I'm a space cowboy or whatever pew! pew!

It's a bit like Prey I'd say but more silly and anarchic there isn't the sense of oppression about anything it's just really good fun but I do think there could have been more elements of Dishonoured brought in but I suspect this might be the first part of the IP with more to come.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: TrenterPercenter on October 01, 2021, 12:42:33 PM
Quote from: Chedney Honks on October 01, 2021, 12:39:46 PM
Update: I really enjoyed Deathloop, but unfortunately I didn't really get the whole timeloop elements of the game, because I finished it first go.

There he is.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: ImmaculateClump on October 01, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Hahaha, alright, I'll let you have that one :D
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Blue Jam on October 02, 2021, 12:44:10 PM
Quote from: TrenterPercenter on October 01, 2021, 12:42:07 PM
I've not played that and I didn't even know it existed so thanks might have a go on it as I really enjoyed Prey.

Mooncrash is set in the same universe as Prey, with the same mechanics, but it's a very different game. In Mooncrash you have to get five people off the Pytheas moonbase in one go, and the fun comes from dying repeatedly as you figure out the various escape routes, which ones are open to each of the five characters, and the correct order. It sounds like Deathloop isn't that far removed from all that.

As much as I love Prey I think I enjoyed Mooncrash even more, although it doesn't have the same replay value as the base game. I doubt I'll do another playthough, or at least not for a good few years.
Title: Re: Deathloop
Post by: Timothy on October 03, 2021, 09:06:10 AM
Quote from: Blue Jam on October 02, 2021, 12:44:10 PM
Mooncrash is set in the same universe as Prey, with the same mechanics, but it's a very different game. In Mooncrash you have to get five people off the Pytheas moonbase in one go, and the fun comes from dying repeatedly as you figure out the various escape routes, which ones are open to each of the five characters, and the correct order. It sounds like Deathloop isn't that far removed from all that.

As much as I love Prey I think I enjoyed Mooncrash even more, although it doesn't have the same replay value as the base game. I doubt I'll do another playthough, or at least not for a good few years.

That definitely sounds like Deathloop. I think you will really enjoy Deathloop too.