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Forums => Deeper Into Movies => Topic started by: Noodle Lizard on September 08, 2021, 09:02:18 PM

Title: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 08, 2021, 09:02:18 PM
Having just got back from Austin and the surrounding area for the first time, I decided to re-watch a few Linklater films set in and around there. Like many teenagers of my generation, I was very much enamoured with Waking Life and Dazed & Confused and Slacker, but with the distance of age grew to assume they were largely pretentious, college stoner-baiting wank. I maintained a soft spot for the Before trilogy, but remember finding Midnight difficult to appreciate when it came out in my early 20s for similar reasons. I liked A Scanner Darkly and Bernie a lot, but I haven't watched them for a while. Boyhood, likewise - I remember enjoying it, but finding it very flawed and not to live up to the hyperbolic critical reception.

Then there are the other ones; the Fast Food Nations and School of Rocks and Everybody Wants Some!!s, which left very little impression on me and I've only seen once. He's apparently made some since Boyhood as well, but I haven't seen them. Clearly not a director who I felt the need to keep up with - I figured I'd just sort of grown out of it.

That being said, I watched Boyhood again last night and it hit me in an entirely different way. Perhaps it's growing older myself or having a child of my own, but it really, really impressed me this time around. Sure, there are still a few eye-rolling bits of dialogue, and my main problem with it when it came out (the kid growing into a fairly dull and sort of unappealing performer) still exists, but I have a very different perspective on it now. I really appreciated how much it does to subvert dramatic expectations; little naturalistic things I hadn't really noticed before, like the last time he sees his best childhood friend trying to wave goodbye being sort of obscured by a hedge as they drive away, or the fact that it never signposts anything - when it seems to be about to (e.g. the kid drinking as a teenager, despite a history of drunk and/or abusive stepdads) it never actually does, which is far more realistic. It eschews dramatic convention, but it's perfectly likely for someone to be able to drink normally despite a history of alcoholism in the family - or at the very least, the consequences wouldn't be immediate and severe. I also noticed more foreshadowing this time (again, not signposted) - like how pretty much all of his interactions with girls as a teenager are influenced by some advice his dad gave him on a camping trip. It's got so much going on, even if it doesn't seem like it.

One of my criticisms when I first saw it was the amount of sophomoric wanky existentialist chatter from the kid, but it does make perfect sense that a teenager in that environment would chat sophomoric wanky existentialist shit. I think the issue there is that I associate it with Linklater's earlier work like Waking Life, which I found profound as a teenager but later grew to be a bit embarrassed by, so it's difficult to discern whether Linklater writes that kind of dialogue because it's what he considers profound or because he understands characters like the ones he's writing would consider it profound. It's probably a combination of the two, but the fact that Linklater's proven himself competent at telling a story like Bernie without relying on that kind of thing makes me more generous to him. He also seems to have an uncommon understanding of and sympathy towards all sorts of people, which I think can only come down to his experience growing up in a kind of blue enclave in Texas (Mike Judge appears to have a similar knack for this).

I fell asleep within 30 minutes of rewatching Waking Life for the first time in at least a decade, but I'll get through it tonight. Then I'm curious to see what I make of Dazed & Confused and Slacker now. There are also a few that I never saw - some of the ones he directed but didn't write, like SubUrbia, for instance. But I figured it was a thread worth having - he's a fairly well-respected filmmaker, but I feel like a lot of people (of around my age, at least) may have a similar push-and-pull relationship with him. For my money, he's at least the most ambitious of that 90's indie filmmaker crowd, even if it doesn't always work.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 08, 2021, 11:19:10 PM
You couldn't include some YouTube clips of his films?

... Or is it "post now, link later" sort of deal?
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Shit Good Nose on September 08, 2021, 11:29:36 PM
I like quite a few of his films, but rather than go into too much detail now (bed is beckoning), I'll just say I fucking LOVE his Bad News Bears remake.  I actually think it's genuinely better than the original, which has the same problem that most Michael Ritchie films do in that they're comedies that don't have all that much comedy in them.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 08, 2021, 11:30:10 PM
Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 08, 2021, 11:19:10 PM
You couldn't include some YouTube clips of his films?

... Or is it "post now, link later" sort of deal?

I assumed everyone who'd bother with this thread was already familiar with his films.

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on September 08, 2021, 11:29:36 PM
I like quite a few of his films, but rather than go into too much detail now (bed is beckoning), I'll just say I fucking LOVE his Bad News Bears remake.  I actually think it's genuinely better than the original, which has the same problem that most Michael Ritchie films do in that they're comedies that don't have all that much comedy in them.

That's one of the ones I didn't watch. Coming out not long after School of Rock and such, I (perhaps unfairly) wrote it off as another example of him "going mainstream" or whatever.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 08, 2021, 11:31:36 PM
I was merely making the greatest pun of all time.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 08, 2021, 11:32:06 PM
Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 08, 2021, 11:31:36 PM
I was merely making the greatest pun of all time.

Oh fuck.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 08, 2021, 11:47:00 PM
I managed to rewatch Dazed & Confused today. Still like it. It somehow makes me nostalgic for a time and place I never existed in. It also does an incredible job of introducing, developing and keeping up with a whole bunch of unique characters who all feel perfectly "real" and lived-in. It's strange to see how many of the actors in smaller roles went on to become big stars (Ben Affleck, Matthew McConaughey, Milla Jovovich, Renée Zellweger) whereas the most prominent actors haven't done very much since. Overall: very good, fun, and remarkably light on the pop-philosophy.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: rjd2 on September 09, 2021, 12:03:07 AM
Boyhood floored me when I caught it in cinema, not seen it since as slightly concerned it may not be as perfect as I remembered. My hot take also is it was a scandal that Birdman beat it to best picture at the oscars that year.

On the lead I didn't mind him, but the criticism of him does remind of the lad playing AJ in the Sopranos, neither are exactly Brando, but I totally missed the nuance of the performance until I re watched it recently.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: peanutbutter on September 09, 2021, 12:12:04 AM
I'll rewatch Boyhood when I'm old enough and divorced enough to relate more to Ethan Hawke than Mason, I was about 5 years too old to relate at all to Mason that much too tbh.


Is Tape any good?
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: madhair60 on September 09, 2021, 12:16:43 AM
yeah i like him hes good at making films
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 12:23:58 AM

Never loved any of his films but I'm glad he exists and he has a nice varied mix of movies and film making techniques.

Slacker is maybe my favourite of his. Not seen it in well overa decade, so it may have aged badly, but I recall it being funny, interesting and had more authenticity than Clerks, which came out a couple of years later and a lot of the film magazines compared the two films. Slacker felt so much more real, grubby and a nice example of cinema verite - just how 90s indie schmindie films should be. It was the kind of film I would love to have made in the 90s.

After all the hype, I found Dazed And Confused to be especially disappointing. Didn't take to any of the characters, found the paddling scenes to be all a bit nasty, it was a little too "Hey, It's The 70s" but with a very mid-90s sheen and using Alice Cooper's School's Out over a montage of kids running out of school to begin the summer holiday perhaps the most on-the-nose use of a pop song in any film ever. Having said all that, I've frequently been told over the years that my opinion on D&C is wrong, so I recently picked up the DVD from a chazza for 20p so will give it  a rewatch some time soon.

Before Sunrise is a film I should love as I usually adore any film set in one night (After Hours, Into The Night, Miracle Mile etc.) but I couldn't stand either character and found it a painful 105 minutes. Managed only the first 20 minutes of Before Sunset before switching it off - Something I very rarely do.

School Of Rock was fun, entertaining and pretty damn charming. It's one that I always forget it a Linklater film - Perhaps because it's one he didn't write.

A Scanner Darkly ticks many of my boxes but there was something lacking. The visual style was nice and original, it's got a great cast but it all felt rather unengaging.

Boyhood is, again, something I ought to have loved - Such a bold statement to make a movie over 15 years or so -  But it's so fucking dull. 166 minutes and I the only I can remember is the idea of the compilation album made up of songs by the former Beatles.

Looking at his filmography, the only one I've not seen that I have any interest in is Me And Orson Welles.

Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 09, 2021, 12:31:39 AM
Quote from: peanutbutter on September 09, 2021, 12:12:04 AM
I'll rewatch Boyhood when I'm old enough and divorced enough to relate more to Ethan Hawke than Mason, I was about 5 years too old to relate at all to Mason that much too tbh.

I think that's what happened to me. I must've been around 23 when it came out, and I think a lot of the stuff on the parents' end of things (who arguably have a more substantial role than Mason does) didn't resonate with me on anything other than a superficial level - of course I understood who they were and what was going on with them, but I didn't feel like there was much more to it than that.

At the same time, I couldn't relate too much to Mason either - the age difference wasn't as significant, but his experience of childhood and adolescence didn't really reflect much of mine. Not just situation-wise, but also in terms of his personality. He's more or less a passive bystander for much of the film; things happen around him as he moves from situation to situation, but he's rarely the active participant. A bit like the titular donkey in Au Hasard Balthazar. Moreover, I feel like it skips a lot of the more formative common experiences of adolescence. Not a bad thing necessarily, but there was less to relate to.

Watching it now, having crested 30 and with a kid of my own, the parents' side of it resonates significantly more. I've never been divorced, and honestly none of their specific situations are that similar to mine, they just feel a lot deeper as characters now. It's probably similar to how people grow along with the Before trilogy - when I was younger, Sunrise would be the one I most related to, whereas I'm probably somewhere in between Sunset and Midnight now (I'll have to watch them back to see). I'm very glad those films exist, regardless.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 09, 2021, 12:39:37 AM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 12:23:58 AM
Looking at his filmography, the only one I've not seen that I have any interest in is Me And Orson Welles.

I've not seen that (I should), but you should definitely give Bernie a try. It's quite un-Linklaterish, in many ways, but tells the (true) story in a very engaging and sympathetic manner which most true crime dramas don't. The fact that, after the film's release, he actually had the real-life Bernie live with him as a condition of his parole between his release and resentencing is fascinating, and suggests a filmmaker who genuinely cared about the story and the people involved rather than the detached, sometimes exploitative direction similar movies have taken. Also Jack Black is fantastic in it.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 09, 2021, 12:56:15 AM
I remember liking a Scanner Darkly. Even if I hadn't, I'd still admire it for being an animation (sort of) for adults that's actually mature, rather than just puerile nonsense (e.g. most of Love, Death and Robots). It's a bit of a shame that conspiracy types take Alex Jones's minuscule role as evidence that Linklater is on their side (instead of evidence that Jones will say stuff for money).

Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 12:23:58 AM
After all the hype, I found Dazed And Confused to be especially disappointing. Didn't take to any of the characters, found the paddling scenes to be all a bit nasty, it was a little too "Hey, It's The 70s" but with a very mid-90s sheen and using Alice Cooper's School's Out over a montage of kids running out of school to begin the summer holiday perhaps the most on-the-nose use of a pop song in any film ever. Having said all that, I've frequently been told over the years that my opinion on D&C is wrong, so I recently picked up the DVD from a chazza for 20p so will give it  a rewatch some time soon.
I watched it for the first time fairly recently and wasn't bowled over by it either. Maybe if I was a gen X type, or I'd just watched it when I was younger, It might have made a better impression. Also, McConnaughey's character needs Yewtreeing.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: checkoutgirl on September 09, 2021, 01:02:23 AM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on September 08, 2021, 09:02:18 PMassume they were largely pretentious, college stoner-baiting wank

To be fair you seem to do that with 99% of artistic endeavours.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 09, 2021, 01:14:48 AM
Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 09, 2021, 12:56:15 AM
I remember liking a Scanner Darkly. Even if I hadn't, I'd still admire it for being an animation (sort of) for adults that's actually mature, rather than just puerile nonsense (e.g. most of Love, Death and Robots). It's a bit of a shame that conspiracy types take Alex Jones's minuscule role as evidence that Linklater is on their side (instead of evidence that Jones will say stuff for money).

I just yesterday read an interview where Linklater was asked about Jones's appearances in his earlier films (I think from around 2018, when Jones was "in" with the Trump administration). Linklater's response made perfect sense to me - Jones was a local Austin celebrity, notorious for his animated anti-government rants. At the time of both his appearances in Linklater's films, the Bush administration was the government, so he was very much "on side" with the liberal college crowd that made up a significant portion of those films' demographics. In the 2000s, being against the Iraq War and even 9/11 conspiracy theories were very much left-wing talking points, and Jones was one of the loudest voices espousing those ideas in that area at that time. That's when I first heard about him, anyway.

So I don't think the fact he turned up in those films is an indictment of either of them, really.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: rjd2 on September 09, 2021, 01:20:36 AM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 12:23:58 AM

Looking at his filmography, the only one I've not seen that I have any interest in is Me And Orson Welles.

I've not seen it since it came out which is over ten years ago, its not Citizen Kane (banter alert) but its very watchable and  perfect Sunday afternoon film.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 09, 2021, 01:30:11 AM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on September 09, 2021, 01:14:48 AM
I just yesterday read an interview where Linklater was asked about Jones's appearances in his earlier films (I think from around 2018, when Jones was "in" with the Trump administration). Linklater's response made perfect sense to me - Jones was a local Austin celebrity, notorious for his animated anti-government rants. At the time of both his appearances in Linklater's films, the Bush administration was the government, so he was very much "on side" with the liberal college crowd that made up a significant portion of those films' demographics. In the 2000s, being against the Iraq War and even 9/11 conspiracy theories were very much left-wing talking points, and Jones was one of the loudest voices espousing those ideas in that area at that time. That's when I first heard about him, anyway.

So I don't think the fact he turned up in those films is an indictment of either of them, really.
I'd read that Linklater had no real idea who Jones was, but just liked his audition. Either way, yes, it's not an indictment of the the films.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 03:10:58 AM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on September 09, 2021, 12:39:37 AM
I've not seen that (I should), but you should definitely give Bernie a try. It's quite un-Linklaterish, in many ways, but tells the (true) story in a very engaging and sympathetic manner which most true crime dramas don't. The fact that, after the film's release, he actually had the real-life Bernie live with him as a condition of his parole between his release and resentencing is fascinating, and suggests a filmmaker who genuinely cared about the story and the people involved rather than the detached, sometimes exploitative direction similar movies have taken. Also Jack Black is fantastic in it.

Thanks! Sounds good, and I just read that it's a mockumentary which is very much my thing.

And I just remembered that Waking Life has been sat in my "To Watch" pile of DVDs for getting on for ten years!

Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 09, 2021, 03:30:21 AM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 03:10:58 AM
Thanks! Sounds good, and I just read that it's a mockumentary which is very much my thing.

It's not really a mockumentary - not in the Christopher Guest sense, anyway. It's mostly a dramatisation of what happened, but occasionally intercut with expository documentary-style interviews[nb]Some of which are great in and of themselves, like this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVmIqRcglvE[/nb]. Some of the interviewees are actors, but some are real people who had a connection to the story or lived in the town at the time, and I think some of them even play themselves in the dramatised parts. I can't really think of anything to compare it to, it's a bit of an odd format, but it works. Well worth a watch.

Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 03:10:58 AMAnd I just remembered that Waking Life has been sat in my "To Watch" pile of DVDs for getting on for ten years!

Haha - if you're no fan of his, Waking Life will probably only strengthen your distaste. Then again, its art/animation style and soundtrack are interesting enough on their own, and some of the sequences are fun/funny. It feels like a spiritual sequel to Slacker in some ways, but a lot more heady. It's imaginative, at the very least.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: zomgmouse on September 09, 2021, 06:51:17 AM
In the director's commentary on the Criterion edition of Dazed and Confused, Linklater utters the phrase: "you can't go back". Not only has that phrase continued to haunt me since I heard it but it has been a key source of understanding Linklater's cinema as a whole (and, I suppose, life). Real fan of his hits, continue to support him despite his misses. Always up for more of his films, really should get round to watching another one at some point. His next film is Apollo 10½ and seems like a real return to both form and content.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: The Mollusk on September 09, 2021, 07:04:55 AM
Dazed & Confused is one of my favourite films. I watched it again the other week and it always feels like a perfectly condensed coming of age film, dipping into a location at a pivotal time and just having a look at what happens for a bit. Making a bunch of clichés that also come across as totally earnest and genuine is hard to do but Linklater nails it here with Alice Cooper and smoking weed and hassling freshmen. It's like Big Star's "Thirteen" in cinema form.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: phantom_power on September 09, 2021, 07:54:16 AM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on September 08, 2021, 11:47:00 PM
I managed to rewatch Dazed & Confused today. Still like it. It somehow makes me nostalgic for a time and place I never existed in. It also does an incredible job of introducing, developing and keeping up with a whole bunch of unique characters who all feel perfectly "real" and lived-in. It's strange to see how many of the actors in smaller roles went on to become big stars (Ben Affleck, Matthew McConaughey, Milla Jovovich, Renée Zellweger) whereas the most prominent actors haven't done very much since. Overall: very good, fun, and remarkably light on the pop-philosophy.

I think Everybody Wants Some is very similar to D&C, despite being set in a different time and place. It isn't as good or memorable but still has that warm "hanging with friends" thing about it, where no-one is particularly heroic but no-one is too much of an arsehole either. Relaxingly low stakes
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: The Mollusk on September 09, 2021, 09:03:42 AM
Been years since I watched EWS but that was my take home from it as well. Not as great as D&C but still lots to enjoy.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: madhair60 on September 09, 2021, 09:10:35 AM
if he was bad you could call him richard stinklater
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Magnum Valentino on September 09, 2021, 09:53:54 AM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 09, 2021, 12:23:58 AM

After all the hype, I found Dazed And Confused to be especially disappointing. Didn't take to any of the characters, found the paddling scenes to be all a bit nasty, it was a little too "Hey, It's The 70s" but with a very mid-90s sheen and using Alice Cooper's School's Out over a montage of kids running out of school to begin the summer holiday perhaps the most on-the-nose use of a pop song in any film ever.

Linklater has always maintained that his view is staunchly anti-nostalgia which is why Pink is in the film. His whole bit about hating the idea that these are the best days of our lives is as clsoe to Linklater's own view as anything else in the film, which is why I think it's so brilliant. It works very well as a celebration of that period (which I didn't live through) and a condemnation of only being able to celebrate it at the expense of progression or development. The 'Hey, It's The 70s' you mention is intentionally heightened (and is brilliantly executed - apparently all of the clothes were sourced from legitimate Austin vintage stores of locally-made 70s gear, as opposed to being designed to look like they're from the 70s).

I wonder did '70s nostalgia' as a sort of American trope properly exist yet when the film was made, or was this the first major example of such?

I've banged on about it before but Melissa Maerz's book about the making of the film is essential for Linklater fans and people who like books about filmmaking.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on September 09, 2021, 09:55:34 AM
I really like the majority of Linklater's films, Before Sunset and Sunrise are two of my favourite ever movies, and though I've not seen his early work since they came out I enjoyed them a lot at the time. But I thought Me And Orson Welles was pretty awful, here's the short review of it that I wrote at the time: Richard Linklater's film concerning Richard (Zac Effron) an actor who briefly worked for Orson Welles (Christian McKay) on his 1937 production of Julius Caesar, and the romance he has with production assistant Sonja (Clare Danes). It portrays Welles as a charismatic if cunty playboy egomaniac, while Danes is okay and Effron is watchable but sometimes annoying, and I struggled to care about either. Linklater's stressed a dislike for biopics and factual retellings and Richard's story is completely fictional (with surviving cast member Norman Lloyd elaborating on that here: https://film.avclub.com/norman-lloyd-on-upstaging-orson-welles-and-playing-tenn-1798286982), but it's a shame Linklater doesn't dislike bland and tiresome stories as that's what we largely get here, and only McKay's Welles and the little we see of Julius Caesar is any fun. 4.4/10
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dex Sawash on September 09, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
Quote from: madhair60 on September 09, 2021, 09:10:35 AM
if he was bad you could call him richard stinklater

There's still time
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: holyzombiejesus on September 09, 2021, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on September 08, 2021, 11:47:00 PM
It somehow makes me nostalgic for a time and place I never existed in.

There's a word for that feeling but I've forgotten it. Barry Admin told me what it was but I can't find the thread any more.

Anyway, I used to love Linklater. Slacker was my favourite too, followed by D&C. Did anyone see Suburbia? I think it felt like it was trying ot be part of that whole Slacker/ D&C thing but was just a really poor attempt, almost like it was made by a different director. Didn't like it at all. Also didn't like the rotoscope films, just because I hate the effect. Tape was ok (and my choice if there was a Linklater round on Pointless) but I lost interest between Sunrise and Sunset. Anyone ever seen the Newton Boys? Not sure if it even got a UK release which seemed a bit odd at the time.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Inspector Norse on September 09, 2021, 02:35:37 PM
Quote from: Magnum Valentino on September 09, 2021, 09:53:54 AM
I've banged on about it before but Melissa Maerz's book about the making of the film is essential for Linklater fans and people who like books about filmmaking.

It's worth it for the chapter about Shawn Andrews alone
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Waking Life on September 09, 2021, 03:57:40 PM
I would quite like to do a full chronological rewatch of his films, but I'm not convinced that many of his films will benefit from it. I recently bought the Before trilogy on Criterion, but haven't watched them in years and slightly concerned I won't enjoy them now. I really enjoyed Slacker and Dazed and Confused (which I have revisited a couple of times) though; Waking Life did partially inspire my username - 16 years ago - as I thought the rotoscoping effect was great for conveying dream-logic (as well as issues I had at the time with lucid dreaming). I don't remember much of the film, aside from Alex Jones and it being some of the offcuts from Slacker.

I watched Boyhood when it came out but don't think I could watch it all again. I like films set over an extended period, but it felt a bit nothing. The actor helped shape a lot of the later segments and I stopped caring for him. I remember Arquette doing a great job though.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: chveik on September 09, 2021, 04:06:45 PM
boyhood stinks imo
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on September 09, 2021, 04:11:49 PM
"It's the best fucking thing ever!" www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fOA1cv9pHs
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: neveragain on September 09, 2021, 09:42:16 PM
Quote from: holyzombiejesus on September 09, 2021, 01:10:11 PM
There's a word for that feeling but I've forgotten it. Barry Admin told me what it was but I can't find the thread any more.

Fernweh or 'far-sickness' (as opposed to home-sickness).
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on September 09, 2021, 10:51:13 PM
I got Before Sunset and Midnight under the belt last night (I've already seen Sunrise plenty). Sunset is by far the least cinematic of the trilogy, perhaps limited by it's real-time conceit. There's probably a bit less to it than any of the others, but it's not bad by any means. The ending is wonderfully understated.

Midnight, however, has grown on me. I remember very much disliking the first half, up until they leave the "academic" friend's house. I still think that whole sequence suffers from feeling like a kind of pseudy wet dream, which isn't ever really subverted. I suppose some of the conversation about relationships and impermanence does set the scene for what follows, but it otherwise feels a bit bougie and irrelevant. I wish they'd have made more of the fact that Céline's career in nonprofits and solving the world's ills appears sort of at odds with their fancy lifestyle - I don't think it even gets brought up in the vicious blow-out later on.

Incidentally, the argument between them is one of the most convincing dramatic depictions of a relationship breaking down that I've ever seen. It's perfectly observed - details like them being able to laugh and cool down for a second before one wrong word throws them right back into the maelstrom, him trying to occupy his hands or move away from her, as if to create a kind of buffer between him and the situation. Horrifyingly relatable and painful to watch - I appreciate the crafting of that sequence much more than I did when I first saw it.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 22, 2021, 11:44:27 PM
Spurred on by this thread I just rewatched Dazed And Confused for the first time in a decade. Didn't like it the first time round and I think I liked it even less this time. It has some of the worst, most dislikeable characters I've ever seen on-screen. How anyone can or would want to identify with any of them is beyond me. Some of the acting is horrible and it has some terrible cliched dialogue. Fuck me, I never want to hear the phrase "Hey, man" ever again.

The soundtrack is great but Linklater relies on it far too much to set a scene or mood when it should be conveyed through acting and dialogue.

It wasn't quite as "Hey, it's the '70s" as I remembered, and some of the costumes and shooting technique makes it seem a little more authentic than I remembered.  Interesting to see early performances from Ben Affleck, Matthew McConaughey, Milla Jovovich and a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance from Rene Zellwegger.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: gilbertharding on September 24, 2021, 02:09:53 PM
What do you think of American Graffiti? I see that and D&C as twins - and both only as deep as you want them to be.

On D&C, costumes aside, I found the wigs a bit too distracting, but the soundtrack was great and the cars were good.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: sevendaughters on September 24, 2021, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: neveragain on September 09, 2021, 09:42:16 PM
Fernweh or 'far-sickness' (as opposed to home-sickness).

sehnsucht, surely. fernweh is the call for far away places.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: sevendaughters on September 24, 2021, 02:26:49 PM
Linklater thoughts generally

- he's had an interesting career hasn't he? I think you have to credit him for being an independent refusenik in a world where anyone with half a well-received film will waggle their genitals at the latest intellectual property romp.
- has he got one truly great film? probably not.
- has he got a lot of really interesting ones that range from small ideas done well to ambitious things with flaws and superior versions of mainstream works? yes.
- I will never understand 'I didn't like the characters' or 'the characters weren't nice' as a critique. That said in D&C I think the younger kids are actually totally fine. That's my favourite Linklater and think it looks really great, one of those films that makes me want to get in a car and drive around the South.
- For their flaws I like the Before trilogy and prefer the middle one the most precisely because of the restriction and the determination to not make a Paris wanker film. I could go another, messy divorce, Hawke with a younger model, all that.
- not seen Boyhood, the discourse around it does my fucking head in, it's just a formal device that he committed to, fuckin Red Letter Media gimboids do my head in
- not sure if I like his Rotoscope experiments
- he is too much of a rockist imo
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 25, 2021, 01:17:29 AM
Quote from: gilbertharding on September 24, 2021, 02:09:53 PM
What do you think of American Graffiti? I see that and D&C as twins - and both only as deep as you want them to be.

On D&C, costumes aside, I found the wigs a bit too distracting, but the soundtrack was great and the cars were good.

It's been a while since I last watched American Graffiti but I much prefer it to D&C. You're absolutely right to say that they are twin films, Linklater clearly influenced by Lucas' movie. I'm more forgiving of AG as it has a certain innocence to it. Richard Dreyfuss and Ron Howard's pre-Vietnam War optimism is more entertaining than everyone smoking weed and engaging in cliched dialogue.

Even though I've smoked weed for most of my adult life, I kind of despise stoner culture in movies.

Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: C_Larence on September 25, 2021, 03:11:07 AM
There's a nice interview up on Julie Delpy's instagram today where she mainly talks about her new Netflix series, but inevitably gets asked about a fourth Before movie and reveals that Linklater sent her an idea about Celine dying of cancer, which she declined because she didn't think it would make for an interesting movie.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CUN8uiEJVh8/?utm_medium=copy_link

The relevant part is near the end, when the timer says there's 7:30 left.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: zomgmouse on September 25, 2021, 04:17:47 AM
Quote from: gilbertharding on September 24, 2021, 02:09:53 PM
What do you think of American Graffiti? I see that and D&C as twins - and both only as deep as you want them to be.

On D&C, costumes aside, I found the wigs a bit too distracting, but the soundtrack was great and the cars were good.

I hated American Graffiti but I loved Dazed & Confused. I think for me D&C felt a lot more genuine, whereas AG was quite put on.

Either way wild to think if such a film were being made now it'd be set in the early 2000s.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 27, 2021, 09:14:43 PM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on September 09, 2021, 03:30:21 AMHaha - if you're no fan of his, Waking Life will probably only strengthen your distaste. Then again, its art/animation style and soundtrack are interesting enough on their own, and some of the sequences are fun/funny. It feels like a spiritual sequel to Slacker in some ways, but a lot more heady. It's imaginative, at the very least.

Watching Waking Life right now. The jerky animation style took a bit of getting used to but my brain's acclimatised to it.

So far, so MUCH better than Dazed And Confused. Can totally see why it's considered a somewhat spiritual follow-up to Slacker.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Inspector Norse on September 27, 2021, 11:15:39 PM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 27, 2021, 09:14:43 PM
Watching Waking Life right now. The jerky animation style took a bit of getting used to but my brain's acclimatised to it.

So far, so MUCH better than Dazed And Confused. Can totally see why it's considered a somewhat spiritual follow-up to Slacker.

Huh weird, Dazed and Confused is one of my absolute favourite films of all time and yet I couldn't sit through Waking Life or Scanner Darkly because the rotoscoping gave me my first migraine in 20 years.

Linklater does have that slightly chameleonic tendency, though: for all that he has identifiably familiar themes and ideas, he's made a lot of stylistic switches in his career and it's easy to imagine people liking very different things of his.

Quote from: zomgmouse on September 25, 2021, 04:17:47 AM
Either way wild to think if such a film were being made now it'd be set in the early 2000s.

I definitely think pop culture has slowed down to a near-standstill, but at the same time I remember watching Scott Pilgrim, a film made in 2010, three or four years after it was released and thinking that it was like a period film set in 2006.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: sutin on September 28, 2021, 03:09:53 PM
Been a card-carrying Linklater fan since Kevin Smith named Slacker as a major inspiration in the '90s. Love Slacker, Dazed & Confused, the Before trilogy, Tape, Boyhood, Suburbia...

Don't understand this D&C criticism either. Surely the only dislikable character in that movie is Affleck's, and he gets his cumuppance. I rewatched it last week for the first time in years and I still love it as much as I ever did. A perfect coming-of-age movie.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 28, 2021, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: Inspector Norse on September 27, 2021, 11:15:39 PM
Huh weird, Dazed and Confused is one of my absolute favourite film
Quote from: sutin on September 28, 2021, 03:09:53 PM
Don't understand this D&C criticism either. Surely the only dislikable character in that movie is Affleck's, and he gets his cumuppance. I rewatched it last week for the first time in years and I still love it as much as I ever did. A perfect coming-of-age movie.
I realise I'm very much in the minority on this one. It's not that it's a terrible film, it's just not a very Dusty Substance type of film. There's not a single character I like, all the stoner conversation stuff is like nails down a blackboard to me (especially Slater's abysmal "Hey man, George Washington smoked weed man" speech), the over-use of period music to set a mood, the paddling scenes,  didn't like many of the performances and the "main" character Mitch is absolute flannel.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: sutin on September 28, 2021, 09:50:31 PM
TBH I just find dumb stoner talk funny, and I haven't bought weed since 2007.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dusty Substance on September 28, 2021, 10:41:55 PM
Quote from: sutin on September 28, 2021, 09:50:31 PM
I haven't bought weed since 2007.

Seven minutes past eight?
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: holyzombiejesus on October 20, 2021, 06:02:32 PM
Quote from: holyzombiejesus on September 09, 2021, 01:10:11 PM
Tape was ok (and my choice if there was a Linklater round on Pointless)

There's a Linklater round on Pointless! Final prize question. 'Directing Richards' - films directed by Richard Attenborough, Richard Lester and Richard Linklater. Contestants chose Attenborough and said "Miracle on 34th Street" (wrong answer), Jurassic Park (wrong answer) and then went for Lester and said Love Actually (wrong answer).

Linklater scores were:

Spoiler alert
Scoring - (No scores given) Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, Slacker, School of Rock, Boyhood, Dazed and Confused. Everything else was pointless.
[close]
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Magnum Valentino on October 20, 2021, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 28, 2021, 08:55:29 PM
I realise I'm very much in the minority on this one. It's not that it's a terrible film, it's just not a very Dusty Substance type of film. There's not a single character I like, all the stoner conversation stuff is like nails down a blackboard to me (especially Slater's abysmal "Hey man, George Washington smoked weed man" speech), the over-use of period music to set a mood, the paddling scenes,  didn't like many of the performances and the "main" character Mitch is absolute flannel.

Pink is clearly the main character!
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Noodle Lizard on October 20, 2021, 07:17:00 PM
Quote from: Magnum Valentino on October 20, 2021, 07:07:00 PM
Pink is clearly the main character!

I'd agree with that, but I think Mitch is the Linklater avatar.

There's a good (impossible/fatal) drinking game where you have to take a shot every time he does this:

(http://www.unchangingwindow.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Mitch+Kramer+-+Wiley+Wiggins.jpg)
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: the science eel on October 20, 2021, 07:30:45 PM
Quote from: Dusty Substance on September 22, 2021, 11:44:27 PM
Spurred on by this thread I just rewatched Dazed And Confused for the first time in a decade. Didn't like it the first time round and I think I liked it even less this time. It has some of the worst, most dislikeable characters I've ever seen on-screen. How anyone can or would want to identify with any of them is beyond me. Some of the acting is horrible and it has some terrible cliched dialogue. Fuck me, I never want to hear the phrase "Hey, man" ever again.

The soundtrack is great but Linklater relies on it far too much to set a scene or mood when it should be conveyed through acting and dialogue.

It wasn't quite as "Hey, it's the '70s" as I remembered, and some of the costumes and shooting technique makes it seem a little more authentic than I remembered.  Interesting to see early performances from Ben Affleck, Matthew McConaughey, Milla Jovovich and a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance from Rene Zellwegger.

I started watching it a few nights ago and gave up because I could hardly understand what they were saying.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Famous Mortimer on October 21, 2021, 02:27:30 PM
Quote from: the science eel on October 20, 2021, 07:30:45 PM
I started watching it a few nights ago and gave up because I could hardly understand what they were saying.
Perhaps you should turn the sound up
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Dusty Substance on October 21, 2021, 05:14:01 PM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on October 20, 2021, 07:17:00 PM
I'd agree with that, but I think Mitch is the Linklater avatar.

That's what I meant by the main character. And he is an absolute flannel.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: kngen on October 22, 2021, 06:00:55 PM
I love D&C because there's something about Mitch's 'journey' that really resonates - a serendipitous series of events where you end up way out of your depth in a world that your age kept you firmly shut out of, face pressed up against the glass staring in, a slave to your imagination. When that door miraculously opens for you, you just about manage to play it cool and not fuck it up too much, and then - woooh - cool shit happens. The final scene where he fobs off his mum, then puts his headphones on and smugly contemplates his ascent to the next level is one of my favourite happy endings ever (although I can see why people hate it).

For those that find D&C leans far too much into the whole 'hey, weed and Blue Oyster Cult. Right on!' thing, may I recommend Stoned Age. It's how to do this kind of film exactly the wrong way. Dazed and Confused is the stoner Citizen Kane by comparison.
Title: Re: Richard Linklater Appreciation Thread
Post by: Famous Mortimer on November 10, 2021, 08:34:35 PM
Agree about Stoned Age, which I remember being fitfully amusing, but only because I was the right age and the right amount of stoned to find it funny.

D&C is lovely, can't fathom people not liking it. Ah well.