The disappearing male

[Pinball]

The debate seems to be about positive action vs. positive discrimination. The former is legal whereas the latter is illegal. An example of positive action would be advertising a job only in women's magazines.

[Pinball]

IIf women want to fanny around doing art and stuff,

What is that meant to mean?

I was petulantly generalising ;-) The chosen language was lazy but not meant to be insulting, as I then used the word "fanny around" for males too.

I guess my point is that men and women have different interests which may be reflected in the jobs they go for. For example, men may be more interested in cars and so more likely to become car mechanics. This would result in a high % of male car mechanics. Does this mean that government should try to achieve a 50/50 split, or do we just accept that women aren't as interested in this type of job? I question the assumption that women are identical to men "if only given the chance", and the religious-type zeal of the government to see at least 50% women (and preferably more) in every job type. The French have a very different view of "Vive la difference!", and may I add a higher % of women in top jobs than the UK, without women having to adopt male behaviour patterns. French women seem to be more feminine than British women IMO, and dress better without male-type suits etc., but that's another topic! (Gee I really do choose the topics don't I? I'll have to change my nick to "Flamed").

To my cynical mind, there is only a drive to increase the number of women when the job is lucrative. Shit jobs seem to be left alone. I don't blame women for pursuing such jobs, of course not, but let's not pretend the underlying desire is simply equality, in which case it would "equally" (sic) apply to all jobs. In addition, if equality was the genuine aim, then the system would work in favour of men when they slip below 50%, as in the case of medicine & dentistry. It does not, a fact which I believe proves my point. Actions speak louder than words. It is simply sexism in a different form i.e. benefiting a different gender. It is not equality. Saying that it's because men are relatively thick so don't get the job is silly, as one could go back say 10 years to when women were 39% of the student intake and make the same point. As for females outperforming males in exams, this is only a recent development, and when the shoe was on the other foot it was never claimed that females do worse in exams 'cos they work less hard and/or are thick. The system was blamed, and questions asked as to how to improve their performance. Do you see that happening now that males are underperforming? Do you hell. Not only are males unwanted now, they're called thick too.

And before anyone calls me a "whinging girl" (the seixst irony in that statement amuses me greatly) I say this: I'm making a rare defence of men because you pussies won't! ;-) There are numerous positive action schemes about to kick in (it's been on R4 all week), so for those males still able to have a job keep your eyes open! The pressure on companies and the public sector to meet female quotas is going to become overwhelming, if it isn't already.

[Nearly Annually]

Now, the parliament thing is interesting. I've always thought in my simplistic characature of a mind, house of men, house of women. Internal structures, etiquettes, protocols are their own business. Votes on the same things at the same times, totals added up, result. But would it make us the softest, pinkest, most easily-invaded country on the planet? Or would we just develop Robin Williams' feminine bomb; the one which doesn't physically destroy things but makes the entire population of the bombed place feel really bad about themselves, rendering them useless?

[Gazeuse]

French women seem to be more feminine than British women IMO.

Bloody hell, have you met many French women???

They're more or less exactly the same, except they generally smoke like it's going out of fashion.

[Nearly Annually]

They're just as ugly as our lot too, but with smellier front bottoms and fuller moustaches.


I don't like to generalise though.

[Pinball]

French women seem to be more feminine than British women IMO.

Bloody hell, have you met many French women???

They're more or less exactly the same, except they generally smoke like it's going out of fashion.

heh

I confess to being a bit biased <nudge nudge wink wink>

[gazzyk1ns]

Urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh Pinball shagged a Frenchy!

[Pinball]

Something about the French accent, the posture, the attitude, the fragrance, the food. Gee, so hard to know why I did it ;-)

[hands cold, liver warm]

Something about the French accent

annoying

the posture

resulting in future generations of  hunch backs

the attitude

poor and increases the chances of surrender  to dictatorial regimes using bliztkrieg tactics

the fragrance

mmmmmmm, onions

the food

horse in runny cheese


I don't like to generalise though.

[Pinball]

Racist!

All companies have to have at least 5% French women employees now, you know ;-)

[fanny splendid]

It wasn't the fanny, it was the dismissal of art, that I was bothered about.

What's wrong with French girls? Jesus, you would have thought that most of the young men on C&B wouldn't be so choosy?

When travelling back from Belgium a couple of months ago, we stopped in France for diesel. Now, we accidentally put red diesel in the van, and the pretty young French behind the counter girl took hold of my hand and motioned to smack it, gave me a wink, and said in the most exaggerated accent you have ever heard,

"You naughty, naughty boy"

Hmmm, I get all shivery just thinking about it...

[Pinball]

This is exactly what I mean. It's the accent - I love the accent!

[hands cold, liver warm]

to be honest, I dated a french girl for 6 months. She was a bit hairy but lovely and funny and caring etc etc. She wasn't like a usual french girl, she was brought up in french guiana.

she taught me some french as well; voiture amphibie means amphibian car

[Gazeuse]

"I waaaaaaaant a piano lesson."

That's all I'm saying.

[Incredible Monkey Doctor]

To my cynical mind, there is only a drive to increase the number of women when the job is lucrative.

Er...  how many male cleaners have you seen recently? How many men advertise their ironing servies in your area? What proportion of childminders in your area is male?

There's definitely no shortage of women doing shit jobs. In my office (city firm), most of the women are secretaries, and a very tiny proportion in senior roles are women.

And frankly, can you blame the women for chasing the good jobs? I'm hardly in a rush to be a street cleaner.

[Pinball]

I agree - everyone should be ambitious and go for great jobs. My point was that it's about ambition, not equality. It's political, is all. Which is fine. But let's not pretend equality is the goal. The schemes are far too selective for that to be the case, and are only one way.

Going back to the original point about medics and dentists, at what point would you give a fuck sufficiently to encourage men into those professions again? When it's dropped to 20%, or 10% perhaps? IMO if equality is the goal, action should have been taken at 45% to ensure equality. No action was taken, so equality is not the issue. It's politics. The ones leading recruitment politics at the moment are women, so women the doctors will be. I'm not saying I give a fuck they're ambitious, I'm saying it's not equality and consequently is discriminatory and should be stopped once 50% has been "achieved". But it carries on to 61%!! Do they think men can't count or something? Presumably we haven't yet become that unqualified, although no doubt it may happen given university trends...