Cyprus election, and our own EU vote

[european son]

i was looking at this on the BBC site, and read this line

Those in favour of the plan accused the government of failing in its duty to explain the complex, 9,000-page plan to the public.

Instead, they said, ministers merely highlighted issues that were designed to persuade voters to reject it and put out dis-information.

which led me to thinking about our EU Constitution referundum.

as far as i'm aware, laws have been passed in the UK to ensure that any referendum will be based on a simple Yes/No question. the phrasing of the question, thus, is everything.

i recall from some broadsheet that the bloke in charge is head of some Independent Election Comission (but his name escapes me). the article pointed out the power this man will have, and the situation in Cyprus has highlighted this further

gone googling, found this site.

choice quotes....

We are an independent body that was set up by the UK Parliament in November 2000....

The wording of a referendum question will ordinarily be specified in the Bill providing for the referendum. Under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA), we have a duty to consider the wording of all referendum questions and to publish a statement of our views on the intelligibility of the question.

To this end, the Commission has developed question assessment guidelines that will be used to help assess a referendum question.

[falafel]

Just to drop a line on the Cyprus issue:

I live there, and it appears to me that the main reasons for the Greek Cypriots voting no are basically the following:

1. A fairly large hard core of old people who were originally kicked out of their homes during the invasion and who still think Turks eat skewered babies for dinner, and whose opinions wouldn't be changed if they were given a million bucks each. In short, people blind to reason;

2. The majority of relative youngsters who are taught to hate the Turks from birth - and I mean really,

really hate them; by all accounts, their history curriculum treats Turkish Cypriots in much the same way that the Nazis looked upon the Jews. It appears that relatively few genuinely realise the political context of the invasion, or indeed are aware of the horrific genocide that the Greeks were committing in the years leading up to it. In short, then, another group of people who are blind to reason;

3. The 50% or so who realised that unification was probably a good idea but were wavering, and waiting for a bit of, you know, information. Half of whose votes were swayed - god knows how - by ridiculous episodes like the time their crass, crass president  Papadopolous tearfully denounced the bill on live TV. There has not just been a lack of information on the referendum over there; essentially, and particularly on the 'oxi' (no) vote, it's been nothing less than solid campaigns of wilful disinformation. Which pisses me off. And the other 25%, the ones who voted yes? They probably just crossed their fingers and hoped for the best. [/list]

And now everything's fucked up, just because of some bigot's personal agenda. I reckon Papadopolous was just worried about losing his presidency. And there are still a fair few idiots baying for enosis (unification with Greece), which quite clearly is never going to happen, and which is what got the country into trouble in the first place (the Turkish invasion  was sparked, in the immediate term, by a Greek Cypriot military coup with an aim to unification with Greece). They also forget that Cyprus was a part of the Ottoman  Empire for far , far longer than it belonged to the Greeks. I heard a guy on the bus (in Leeds) talking to some Greek Cypriots today, and saying "Meh - what have the Turks ever contributed to the world? They're scum, they're not European, why should they join Europe? What have they ever done?". I had to really resist the temptation to mention the aforementioned Empire, oh, and of course the way people from the region contributed a fair amount to modern medicine as well...

Anyway, rant over, and it has little to do with the EU thing, but I just wanted to vent a little bit of anger. The Greek Cypriots just don't seem to know what's good for them.

[Dangermouse]

Just to drop a line on the Cyprus issue:

I live there, and it appears to me that the main reasons for the Greek Cypriots voting no are basically the following:

1. A fairly large hard core of old people who were originally kicked out of their homes during the invasion and who still think Turks eat skewered babies for dinner, and whose opinions wouldn't be changed if they were given a million bucks each. In short, people blind to reason;

2. The majority of relative youngsters who are taught to hate the Turks from birth - and I mean really,

really hate them; by all accounts, their history curriculum treats Turkish Cypriots in much the same way that the Nazis looked upon the Jews. It appears that relatively few genuinely realise the political context of the invasion, or indeed are aware of the horrific genocide that the Greeks were committing in the years leading up to it. In short, then, another group of people who are blind to reason;

This hatred that you speak of is also due to the fact that Turkey sent it's nastiest most brutal people there instead of prison. Turkey have used Cyprus as a dumping ground for the worst elements of their society. No suprise there is a lot of hatred.

[falafel]

Just to drop a line on the Cyprus issue:

I live there, and it appears to me that the main reasons for the Greek Cypriots voting no are basically the following:

1. A fairly large hard core of old people who were originally kicked out of their homes during the invasion and who still think Turks eat skewered babies for dinner, and whose opinions wouldn't be changed if they were given a million bucks each. In short, people blind to reason;

2. The majority of relative youngsters who are taught to hate the Turks from birth - and I mean really,

really hate them; by all accounts, their history curriculum treats Turkish Cypriots in much the same way that the Nazis looked upon the Jews. It appears that relatively few genuinely realise the political context of the invasion, or indeed are aware of the horrific genocide that the Greeks were committing in the years leading up to it. In short, then, another group of people who are blind to reason;

This hatred that you speak of is also due to the fact that Turkey sent it's nastiest most brutal people there instead of prison. Turkey have used Cyprus as a dumping ground for the worst elements of their society. No suprise there is a lot of hatred.

My point, however, was that most Greek Cypriots appear to have the impression that they never did anything wrong.  Everyone knows how nasty the Turks can be, but  it comes as a genuine shock to hear a Greek Cypriot actually say "Well, you know, we did bad stuff too, I suppose". I'm not saying what the Turks did was justified, but ... well, you know.

It's like in Blackadder - when Baldrick  asks why the war started, and George says "The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building". Well, no it didn't. Y'getme?

[chand]

I wonder, though, regarding our own vote, how much of it will be down to the actual wording of the question, and how much will be down to the way the question is discussed in the media.

[Dangermouse]

Just to drop a line on the Cyprus issue:

I live there, and it appears to me that the main reasons for the Greek Cypriots voting no are basically the following:

1. A fairly large hard core of old people who were originally kicked out of their homes during the invasion and who still think Turks eat skewered babies for dinner, and whose opinions wouldn't be changed if they were given a million bucks each. In short, people blind to reason;

2. The majority of relative youngsters who are taught to hate the Turks from birth - and I mean really,

really hate them; by all accounts, their history curriculum treats Turkish Cypriots in much the same way that the Nazis looked upon the Jews. It appears that relatively few genuinely realise the political context of the invasion, or indeed are aware of the horrific genocide that the Greeks were committing in the years leading up to it. In short, then, another group of people who are blind to reason;

This hatred that you speak of is also due to the fact that Turkey sent it's nastiest most brutal people there instead of prison. Turkey have used Cyprus as a dumping ground for the worst elements of their society. No suprise there is a lot of hatred.

My point, however, was that most Greek Cypriots appear to have the impression that they never did anything wrong.  Everyone knows how nasty the Turks can be, but  it comes as a genuine shock to hear a Greek Cypriot actually say "Well, you know, we did bad stuff too, I suppose". I'm not saying what the Turks did was justified, but ... well, you know.

It's like in Blackadder - when Baldrick  asks why the war started, and George says "The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building". Well, no it didn't. Y'getme?

I know what you are saying. Bad situation all round.

I think it would take several generations to gey over this. But that does mean that there is hope for the future.

P.S. how long have you lived there?

[falafel]

18.5 years, give or take.