Yakuza series

[Mister Six]

So. Rubber bullets, eh?

[Thursday]

And Rubber rockets that cause Rubber explosions.

[letsgobrian]

So. Rubber bullets, eh?

The scene from an earlier game that they retcon in Yakuza 7 is more plausible than this explanation for a scene that isn't a retcon.

Spoilers for Y7:

Spoiler alert

the scene in Y3 where Kashiwagi "dies" never shows bullets hitting him, plus Kiryu never checks for a pulse. If you play through the hitman missions in Y3 you learn Kashiwagi was behind the Honest Living Association, who help people leave behind a life of crime. With that in place it's not a stretch having him showing up at Survive Bar.

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[Pink Gregory]

Yeah, I try to be unbothered by the mechanics of it...I quite like the actual plot of Y4

Spoiler alert

just because you haven't seen a police corruption storyline yet in the series, which considering the space in which the actual Yakuza operates, seems important

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[letsgobrian]

Yeah, I try to be unbothered by the mechanics of it...I quite like the actual plot of Y4

Spoiler alert

just because you haven't seen a police corruption storyline yet in the series, which considering the space in which the actual Yakuza operates, seems important

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I was the same. I think because I spent so much time in the game the scene it changes wasn't fresh in my mind, and seemed reasonable.

Whereas I sped so fast through Yakuza 6 that the reveal there seemed super absurd to me. Which now I think about it, is a ridiculous thought given some of the side-stories and mini-games in that instalment.

[The Crumb]

I've jumped into the Judgement series at Lost Judgement, and I'm massively amused by the raging midlife crisis tryhard energy of the protagonist. The investigation mechanics feel like they will get old, but the combat is great fun. So fluid, especially the snake style. Can't wait to be swamped in side content!

[Consignia]

I've jumped into the Judgement series at Lost Judgement, and I'm massively amused by the raging midlife crisis tryhard energy of the protagonist.

I know, right? It's never said, but you get the vibes all the way through especially in the major side quest. I think that's one of the things that really endeared me to the game. I still think there's a bit of middle aged wish fulfilment in some aspects such as beating up school bullies and the like, but nothing makes me love the game more than see the po-faced Yagami darting round Yokohama on a skateboard.

The investigation mechanics feel like they will get old, but the combat is great fun. So fluid, especially the snake style. Can't wait to be swamped in side content!

I honestly thing it strikes a good balance, as long as you mix up the side content whilst playing. The worst thing is the intro front loads a whole load of mechanics which are only used sparingly.

One thing I will say is, I'm pretty far into the main story now and I think it's a bit too heavy for the sort of series it resides in. The side quests are an absolute joy though, up there with the best of Yakuza.

[letsgobrian]

Played through the Kaito Files DLC for Lost Judgment over the weekend. A really great pared-down Yakuza experience. It's like a better execution of what they tried with the Majima side-story in Yakuza Kiwami 2. Much closer to feeling like a mini-version of a full Yakuza/Judgment game.

[Thursday]

Yep enjoyed it even though it is a little strange not to have substories, but it also means it makes for a more sensible story and not the convoluted 50 layers of double crossing and revelations you'd get in a full game. Kaito makes for a more fun protagonist as well, even though I like Yagami's fighting style more.

[letsgobrian]

Yep enjoyed it even though it is a little strange not to have substories, but it also means it makes for a more sensible story and not the convoluted 50 layers of double crossing and revelations you'd get in a full game. Kaito makes for a more fun protagonist as well, even though I like Yagami's fighting style more.

At least you get to listen for cats and sniff bins, which is the sort of thing Majima Saga in YK2 was missing. Not that specifically, but if it had some element of non-combat gameplay that the main game didn't have, it would have spiced it up a bit.

[Thursday]

Yeah, although I feel like I had different expectations with Majima Saga, because it was just some bonus chapters rather than some paid DLC.

[Mister Six]

Yeah, I try to be unbothered by the mechanics of it...I quite like the actual plot of Y4

Me too, what I've seen so far (on Kiryu chapter 4), although it kind of has the Yakuza 1 problem of having a complicated bunch of alliances and double-crosses occur off-camera, some involving characters you barely glimpsed 20 hours before, so big dramatic moments that ought to land hard just leave me going "Wait, who's he again...?"

The rubber bullets are a recurring joke on the Yakuza subreddit, so I guessed that twist ahead of time, and initially rather liked it when

Spoiler alert

Infernal Affairs yakuza-cop turned in his report only for Munkata to immediately see right through it. But then it just made Katsuragi's plan seem even more stupid. Apparently they weren't expecting a coroner to notice that everyone had injuries consistent with police-issue experimental rubber bullets before they were killed with perfect shots to the head from a single revolver (that magically didn't need reloading). And somehow they knew Saejima wouldn't die in the attack, and that he wouldn't end up accidentally killing the boss with (say) a knife or other weapon to hand, and that the boss would fall unconscious and remain out until after Katsuragi had murdered the other men, and...

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Stuff like Osaka Castle or the coliseum that a single cop somehow built underneath Sotonbori's river are ridiculous, but they're also on the extreme edges of Yakuza's preposterous world, and tangential to the story proper. This whole convoluted plan is at the heart of Yakuza 4's story, so I'm having trouble looking past it.

Most of the rest of the game is good, though. Tanimura's section was definitely the best of the three so far, certainly in terms of pacing - sensibly, they opened up all his side content in chapter 2, so I could farm all that stuff while the story was in a little lull, unlike in Saejima's chapter, where I was expected to put the dramatic climax of the story on hold while I pissed about training people in a dojo for hours on end. And it's nice that Kiryu starts with absolutely tons of moves already unlocked, as trouncing all these street idiots in seconds using basic moves is a nice change after perfecting my elaborate parry-combo-heat action moves with T-dawg.

[Pink Gregory]

There are a few characters that exist purely for double crosses that could probably be excised for the better.  I find it odd that you spend so much time with

Spoiler alert

Katsuragi

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, who's sort of just a henchman and so little time with

Spoiler alert

Arai

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who has more complex motivations and has an existing relationship with

Spoiler alert

Akiyama and Kido

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.

I'm quite glad they made so little of

Spoiler alert

Shibata

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despite his actions being so influential in the Majima/Saejima backstory. 

[Mister Six]

On the final chapter of Yakuza 4 now. Given up trying to keep track of who's doing what and why, just hoping I'll get a nice cackling villain monologue that sums it all up before the final boss.

Bloody love fighting foreigners in these games, because they all have really unassuming names like Barry and Gavin. I assume the translators are from Birmingham or something.

[Pink Gregory]

Bloody love fighting foreigners in these games, because they all have really unassuming names like Barry and Gavin. I assume the translators are from Birmingham or something.

Loved the final fight in Y3 in which

Spoiler alert

Mine

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is delivering a monologue while restraining

Spoiler alert

Richardson

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who, in between the literate and affecting monologue in Japanese is just a guy going 'hey!  what are you doing!  whoa!"

[Consignia]

I've just finished the main part of Lost Judgement, as well as most of the side content in the main game. Just got the Kaito side story to do now.

Got to say this game ranks way up there in my opinion of the Yakuza games. Going in, I wasn't really enthused. I thought it was going to be a dull side show to the colourful main series. I couldn't have been more wrong. Gameplay wise, it's probably the most refined it's been. I can't pick a favourite combat style out of the three, they all blend together so well. The side content is wonderfully silly, you could easily see Kiryu or Kasuga getting wrapped up in instead of Yagami.

The main story is a bit mixed of course. It's problem it needs to have two halves; a thriller detective story and a massive conspiracy to make sure Yagami and his semi-reformed mates have some thugs to beat up. I actually quite preferred the former to the latter, even it was a tad too heavy to be dealt with in the context of the rest. It's probably the most serious and gritty I've seen the series be.

For anyone interested; yes you probably need to finish Yakuza 7 before this. There's very little crossover, but it takes place in the same world and major thing in Yakuza is the back drop to the main gang you cross and the big event is just something casually taken for granted. It wouldn't be too big a thing to accidentally spoil yourself with, but just something that takes some of the gravitas away from the latter parts of 7.

Overall, I'm not sure where I want the series to go next. I obviously want more Kasuga and his antics, and found the JRPG stylings to be fun. But I also like to see more of this detective style stuff as well. As long as the main actors' agency don't play silly buggers any more than they have.

[Mister Six]

I've just finished the main part of Lost Judgement, as well as most of the side content in the main game. Just got the Kaito side story to do now.

You make it sound fantastic - I'm playing in chronological order, so I've still got four other games to play before I get around to LJ, but what little I've seen/heard about the game has me very enthusiastic indeed.

For now, I've wrapped up Yakuza 4, which is a game of extremes. In terms of combat and characters, I think it's probably my favourite pre-Dragon Engine game. Each character's combat style is different enough and well-designed enough that the game never had a chance to feel stale, and all four of our protagonists are really well differentiated in their personalities and stories. There's a pleasing amount of variety to their missions/masters/side quests, too, and the classic Yakuza humour is in full effect.

BUT my god, the story is a mess, and I think my least favourite of the series so far. Like Kiwami 1, it seems to mistake betrayals for interesting plot twists, and lets far too much happen offscreen. By the end I had no idea what anyone except

Spoiler alert

Munkata actually wanted, or why they'd been doing what they were doing. Why did Daigo think the money would help him keep the Tojo clan together, and what exactly had he done with regard to all the other characters to end up on the roof? And why did he and Kiryu bother fighting one another?

What was Arai's plan? When he shot Kido and sent the money down on the elevator, I thought I'd got him pegged - betraying Katsuragi and Kido to take the cash. But apparently he shot Kido non-fatally (because of their sworn brotherhood, I guess?) and he let Akiyama have the money back... so that he could retrieve it again later on the off-chance Akiyama would put it all on the roof of a building? What was he even going to use the money for - to take over the Tojo? How?

And Kido... I guess he saw the ¥¥¥ and figured he'd take the cash. But he's still loyal to Arai, so he plans to give him the money? But then Arai shoots him anyway?

As Pink Gregory said, it would have been nice if they'd spent a bit more time setting up Arai, who's a much more interesting and important character than Katsuragi. It also feels like they pissed away the Infernal Affairs aspects of the story by having their undercover guys be villains who get pushed to the side of events constantly.

Also, I'm not really clear on why Daigo is back running the Tojo at the end, or why he's apparently besties with Majima, Kiryu and Saejima. I suppose Kiryu admitted that he kind of screwed over Daigo by lumbering him with the job and then pissing off, but still, it seemed a weirdly rosy finish considering that they'd been beating the stuffing out of each other atop a building a couple of weeks before

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It's a shame, because the game is stuffed with really interesting antagonists who don't get the screentime they deserve. Still, that gameplay! And I bloody love Tanimura, both to play and as a character. Gutted he's not in any of the other games (but at least he got to fight the final boss, eh?).

One thing I noticed is that RGG tend to develop physically imposing characters but give them vulnerable personalities - Kiryu's fear of intimacy, Saejima's longing for a kyodai he can trust and Akiyama's henpecked relationship with Hana (and Majima's constantly having to hold back in 0, although they hadn't written that at this point). But since Tanimura is shorter, less strong and has a more defensive fighting style, they let him have the most confident, outgoing and self-assured personality of any of the protagonists so far. His "I don't give a fuck" attitude is so much fun.

I gather than the plot of Y5 is even more of a clusterfuck, but we'll see when I start that up in a month or two.

[Pink Gregory]

I quite like that the ending is mainly score-settling.  Apart from Tanimura and Munakata, every fight is between two people who've been on friendly and at least respectful terms, and still sort of are.  Kiryu vs. Daigo is almost joyful, like the fight is a reacquaintance between friends.

Everything plotwise has been accomplished before then, only Munakata has a (fairly predictable) conclusion from that point; you're pretty much sure that Arai, Kido and Daigo don't have their hearts in it any more.

[Mister Six]

I quite like that the ending is mainly score-settling.  Apart from Tanimura and Munakata, every fight is between two people who've been on friendly and at least respectful terms, and still sort of are.  Kiryu vs. Daigo is almost joyful, like the fight is a reacquaintance between friends.

Everything plotwise has been accomplished before then, only Munakata has a (fairly predictable) conclusion from that point; you're pretty much sure that Arai, Kido and Daigo don't have their hearts in it any more.

That's a good point, but their journeys have all taken place off-camera (especially Daigo's as he's barely seen in this game, from what I remember), so the fights feel less like a natural conclusion of their storylines and more like box-checking because we have four protagonists and we have to wrap this up somehow.

And it still leaves the question of why Arai, Kido and Daigo are even there.

Spoiler alert

Are they hoping to shovel that mountain of money into their pockets and run off frowning at how shit everything is? At least Munkata brought some lackeys along.

I know the Yakuza series has a very heightened reality and will happily ditch plausibility if it'll make for a more dramatic scene, but the core plot around the gangster stuff is usually relatively grounded and semi-believable (and where it's previously gone bonkers, it's usually somewhere in the middle of the game rather than the climax). This ending is basically dream logic, even by Yakuza standards, and it feels weird (see also: a wad of money stopping Munkata from killing Akiyama; I thought it was going to turn out that he'd grabbed Tachibana's gun, and Tachibana had been using rubber bullets just to fuck with him, but no - Japanese money is apparently scretly made of aramid fibres).

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I honestly did enjoy my time with Yakuza 4, mind you. Honest.

[Pink Gregory]

To be honest I think the scene of the four all leaving Serena and walking up the street and looking up at the tower was so cool it made me forget everything.

[Mister Six]

Completely fair.

[Mobius]

Just picked up Lost Judgment. Loving it so far but then again I knew I would

[Consignia]

Just picked up Lost Judgment. Loving it so far but then again I knew I would

I think I've put more hours into Lost Judgement and Kaito Files than any other entry. I even (general series spoiler rather a story spoiler)

Spoiler alert

encoutered and defeated an Amon for the first time.

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I couldn't say it's the best, but for me it's totally up there. I think you either like Yagami or you hate him, but I just love his middle age energy that he brings.

[The Crumb]

Really enjoyed doing a farcical club infiltration in Lost Judgement (including a hilarious bit as a bartender) just so Yagami could get a bit closer to a room before a massive brawl kicked off anyway. One of the few games I find deliberately funny.

[Mobius]

Yeah I really like Yagami. Judgment was a lot of fun.

I'm enjoying the school stuff. Quite funny to just be beating the shit out of schoolkids in their classroom to be honest.

Just on Chapter 3, am able to explore the town now and have just unlocked side missions.

[The Crumb]

Slightly obsessed with dragging brawls to the beer festival in Kamurocho. It's too much fun to smash up. I wish more of the set piece fights were in such destructible areas.

[letsgobrian]

Yeah I really like Yagami. Judgment was a lot of fun.

I'm enjoying the school stuff. Quite funny to just be beating the shit out of schoolkids in their classroom to be honest.

Just on Chapter 3, am able to explore the town now and have just unlocked side missions.

The first time it lets you beat up school children with a forgotten move-set from an earlier Yakuza game was up there for me with the moment in the first Judgment where you

Spoiler alert

beat up hospital staff in front of their Alzheimer patients

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.

Just things I never would have thought I'd be doing when the game started.

[Mister Six]

Nice slow build up in early Yakuza 5, but my god, the ramen-cooking minigame is properly intense. Kiryu looks knackered at the best of times. Poor bastard, why can't they just let him be happy? There are plenty of other characters to make miserable at this point! :(

[Pink Gregory]

Looks like I need to buy/start Y5 then oh noooooooo

[Mister Six]

You didn't get the Remastered collection with 3-5 in? I managed to bag 0-6 and Fist of the North Star on various PS Store deals; going to drag out 5, 6 and FotNS so hopefully Judgment or 7 have dropped in price by the time I reach them, but I think I have to accept that fairly soon (early 2023, I suppose) I'll be handing over fistfuls of dosh to keep the addiction going. At least 5 is supposed to be a mammoth game.