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March 28, 2024, 07:16:09 PM

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Skyrim Next-Gen Remaster (Nov 2021)

Started by Chedney Honks, August 20, 2021, 06:54:53 AM

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Mister Six

Quote from: Zetetic on May 27, 2022, 11:03:50 AMIt's not that it's wrong to make a game where the player can do or be anything and everything, it's that shouldn't then try to make that game about discrimination and political conflict.

Although I'd argue that an RPG - which is what Skyrim still claims to be - requires some kind of pushback to work effectively, otherwise it's just a big fuck-around sandbox. Which is obviously very popular and no bad thing in of itself, but it breaks immersion a bit when you can be
Spoiler alert
a dark elf champion of anti-dark-elf racists who's also the leader of a band of heroes and of a league of assassins and of a wizarding school and of the thieves' guild, and none of these contradictory factors are commented on except by the city guards on occasion.
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One of the great things about New Vegas was that it felt like an organic, well-connected world in which the effects of events that had happened before the game could still be felt, and the choices you made had an actual impact on the status quo, down to alienating and then winning back the support of a community (which gave a different result to just charming them from the off, or getting them onside and then pissing them off).

Whereas Skyrim feels like this vast world with unconnected settlements and clans that have no little to no bearing on one another at all. It's a lot of fun, but not as immersive as it could be.

Ferris

I guess the counter-argument to that is (spoiler because thelittlemango is playing the game)
Spoiler alert
practical/operational more than anything.

You picked a dark elf character at the beginning because you liked their pointy ears - bad news mate! You can't join that gang now. Even if you really want to, tough shit - you made a choice that you couldn't have known would limit you from doing specific stuff in the game but it has done. If you really want to join this gang/do this side mission or whatever, you have to start a totally new game and pick one of the other skins. Oh you were level 40 with good armour before you found out? Tough shit, back to the start for you pal. Hope you enjoy playing through the same first few hours!

Etc.

Maybe some completists would do that and I can't deny it would add to the realism (though I think that's overrated, because it's already pseudo high fantasy Calvinball), but I doubt many would. You'd also get backlash because you're making the character creation screen limit players in a way that would probably feel unfair the first time you played it.

For that reason, I prefer the big fuck around sandbox, and if the game siloed players hundreds of hours into the game based on largely aesthetic choices they made within 2 minutes of turning on the console I'd be pissed off.

Add to that (with the music and sound design in particular), it still feels plenty immersive and a lived-in to me - @Mister Six's New Vegas example of winning over towns etc happens in the main storyline of skyrim also doesn't it? Genuinely don't remember.
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Just my opinion, others are available.

Ferris

And I suppose to Zet's point
Spoiler alert
that it's fine to take that sandbox approach, but then the game shouldn't be aimed at an ethnic conflict - yes I think that's fair. They missed a trick, but I see why they did it (for the operational reasons in my other post) and I'm glad they did.

I'd rather have that fudge in there and operate as a mercenary type who is above the actual ethnic conflict, than feel like I was being siloed into play styles/missions etc that I didn't want to do. You could argue that would make a point (ahh we're all siloed with limited choices by our ethnicity ahh do you not see) which is fine, but doesn't make the game any more fun to play.
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Mister Six

Quote from: Ferris on May 27, 2022, 03:55:32 PM
Spoiler alert
You picked a dark elf character at the beginning because you liked their pointy ears - bad news mate! You can't join that gang now. Even if you really want to, tough shit - you made a choice that you couldn't have known would limit you from doing specific stuff in the game but it has done. If you really want to join this gang/do this side mission or whatever, you have to start a totally new game and pick one of the other skins. Oh you were level 40 with good armour before you found out? Tough shit, back to the start for you pal. Hope you enjoy playing through the same first few hours!
[close]

Well, I mean the easy answer there is just to tell the player on the character selection screen which groups they might not be able to join (maybe make it optional viewing for those who prefer to be surprised). There's no reason why it has to be a surprise.

You could also just add a couple of extra hoops that a particular class has to jump through in order to join a certain team's side, so there's at least the impression of pushback.

But really, I think they did this not for reasons of accessibility, but because it made it harder for game-breaking bugs to sneak past the playtesters - see also Fallout 4's ultra simplistic world coming after New Vegas's complex one required a ton of patches.

Ferris

Quote from: Mister Six on May 27, 2022, 05:41:35 PMWell, I mean the easy answer there is just to tell the player on the character selection screen which groups they might not be able to join (maybe make it optional viewing for those who prefer to be surprised). There's no reason why it has to be a surprise.


Yeah I could see that working, even an intro cut scene where it's explained "hey, in this part of the world people who are not Nords are treated differently so think about your character" or something.

That said, I still like being able to do everything without the potential hassle of creating a new character and doing 80% of stuff the same just for the difference in side missions etc. Me being lazy doesn't detract from your point though.

Mister Six

It's fine, they're both valid ways to make a game and can both be appreciated for equally valid reasons. I just found it a bit frustrating to have to consciously limit myself in order to play a "role", and eventually just giving up and treating it like a throwaway sandbox for pissing about in. I put 190+ hours into the thing before I gave up, though, so clearly I fucking loved it.

I think maybe it pinged on my radar harder than other games might do because the it's still written like a "proper" RPG with all this intricate lore, all these scrolls and books to be found and all these political groups and races that are at each other's throats, but then the game itself is just like, "Well whatever bruv, it's not real is it? Just have fun."

bgmnts

The simple answer is Bethesda are shit and Obsidian are fucking ace.

What are some of the more fun sandbox/non quest things you guys have done in this game?

Cerys


king_tubby

Quote from: thelittlemango on May 27, 2022, 06:55:39 PMWhat are some of the more fun sandbox/non quest things you guys have done in this game?

Just riding around on a horse looking at the scenery can divert me away from the quests. Especially the Rift at dawn, it looks amazing.

Cuellar

Quote from: thelittlemango on May 27, 2022, 06:55:39 PMWhat are some of the more fun sandbox/non quest things you guys have done in this game?

Buy a nice house and get it all kitted out, then find someone nice to marry, adopt some waifs, then murder my spouse and find a new one, then murder that one, and so on, just generally Bluebearding my way around.

Mister Six

Just look up one of Cerys's threads on her Skyrim schemes.

Poobum

Love a bit of resource gathering, make me some potions, capture some souls, smith some snazzy war threads. Like roleplaying as a trader, shame there's no Elite style market system.

The Hearthfire mod has always disappointed me. I like gathering random pots and pans, or things specific to an area or quest
Spoiler alert
such as the massive roast beef legs from Shor's Hall
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and the houses don't allow you to place things without them madly glitching. I'd love a display table that works like the armour mannequins where I can have all my little trinkets on display. This maybe very specific to me though, as one of the things I always do in Morrowind is try and get a complete dwarven Limeware dinner set.

And a tip for mining whilst I remember, you don't need to do the whole tedious animation thing, just equip a pickaxe and attack the mineral seams, ore goes straight into your inventory.

king_tubby

#163
Quote from: Cuellar on May 27, 2022, 07:35:04 PMBuy a nice house and get it all kitted out, then find someone nice to marry, adopt some waifs, then murder my spouse and find a new one, then murder that one, and so on, just generally Bluebearding my way around.

Oh yeah, I did have fun kitting out the houses on my first time through. Got a bit dull later, especially as the Anniversary Edition added a shitload more houses.

I didn't think you could murder your other half?

Cuellar


king_tubby

Since I found out she's dealing as a side hustle, I think I'll let her live.

Ferris

Quote from: Mister Six on May 27, 2022, 05:41:35 PMYou could also just add a couple of extra hoops that a particular class has to jump through in order to join a certain team's side, so there's at least the impression of pushback.

I think you edited your comment to add this in after, but that's a great idea honestly and would only take an extra side quest or two to "prove your loyalty, elf" or whatever.

I enjoyed getting all the daedric swords - there's one in
Spoiler alert
the basement of the jarl's gaff in whiterun
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! Played it for years and only recently found that out.

Mister Six

Quote from: Ferris on May 27, 2022, 09:13:05 PMI think you edited your comment to add this in after, but that's a great idea honestly and would only take an extra side quest or two to "prove your loyalty, elf" or whatever.

Yeah, and it would allow for a little extra race-specific content here and there that's not so massive/exciting people will feel like they're missing out by not playing as every single race. Bit like Dragon Age: Origins.

I love reading how people approach games differently and use the world to make their own fun, it's also good for inspiration and thinking of things that might not otherwise occur to someone.

Started my first task for The Companions, dead keen to impress them even though what they asked was a bit iffy.

I had to go and intimidate a woman on a farm so she toes the line, didn't feel great about that but set off with Faendal and arrived at her place. She creeped me out by sitting on a chair right by the door but I had a job to do so started throwing bowls and things on the floor, no luck, she didn't even blink. Next I tried firing arrows just over her head, nerves of steal, she sat there motionless. Only one thing for it, I hit her with a big magic axe. Suddenly I was being attacked but she was in a different part of the room so I was confused, turns out it was Faendal, who was perfectly fine with the job when The Companions were telling us about it but when he got there he lost his nerve (I think she may have been a fellow elf person) and started shooting arrows at me.

So now I've gone from trying to impress my new mates to ending up killing my loyal but silent elf friend and then having to kill one of their key people who wouldn't stop attacking me even when I ran away, and I'm too scared to go back and tell them how badly I fucked up :(

bgmnts

My introduction to The Companions on this playthrough was a glitch, the trial fight with Farkas or whoever in the courtyard ended up me being hounded by every Companion member. Loyal Lydia ended up gettint stabbed to fuck until she passes away brutally in her very conscious form.

Poor Lydia.

But life goes on so I took everything I made her carry and finished the trial and started the companion questline. But they're all on my shitlist and my goal is to destroy them from within, in memory of Lydia.

Mister Six

At least she'll no longer sarcastically complain when you ask her to carry something for you over and over again until you snap and send her away, only for her to sit in your house on a chair staring at your bed like a psychopath while you sleep.

I hate Lydia.

Cerys

Lydia exists for one thing, and one thing only: to be sacrificed at the altar of a Daedric lord.  Having said that, filling her torso with an unhealthy quantity of arrows as she sits in your bedroom in Breezehome is also acceptable.

bgmnts

This underappreciation of Lydia is startling. Who else will lug your dragon bones across the mountains of Skyrim? Who else will sarcastically whinge after being forcibly saddled with metric tons of dragon scales?


I'm already in love with this game but one thing I'm struggling with is the fighting, it seems so clunky and basic.

I stumbled across an old jail and went in seeing if I could free any prisoners, they were all dead so I sought vengeance by wiping out the bandits in there, except for one who seemed to be a damage sponge and had a brutal hammer. I got killed a couple of times after trying to pick him off with arrows so decided to go in for a close quarters fight, but unlike Witcher 3 (sorry, I'll stop comparing them) well timed feints and blocks don't seem to work and the best solution seems to be mashing the attack button while trying to strafe them. Unfortunately this guy was too powerful for that and so I had to retreat and leave him in his lonely prison, but I was a bit disappointed you can't use skill to overpower a physically stronger opponent.

Ferris


Cerys

The woman has issues.  She says things like 'I'm glad we're friends' even after you twat her with a pickaxe, sits in your bedroom watching you sleep, and leaves you money when you set her on fire and Fus Ro Dah her off the Throat of the World.  It just isn't healthy.

Ferris

Quote from: Cerys on May 28, 2022, 01:25:16 PMThe woman has issues.  She says things like 'I'm glad we're friends' even after you twat her with a pickaxe, sits in your bedroom watching you sleep, and leaves you money when you set her on fire and Fus Ro Dah her off the Throat of the World.  It just isn't healthy.

Listen - I'm not claiming she's perfect, right?

But she is doing the best she can and when pricks try to bring her down then, sorry, I will fucking say it, alright?

king_tubby

Yes, I am not happy about this disrespect for Lydia. At least she's not a fucking goody twoshoes like Mjoll the so called Lioness, or a snobby cunt like Nazeem. I go to the Cloud District whenever I want mate, I'm the fucking DRAGONBORN.

king_tubby

I have installed Legacy of the Dragonborn and so now as well as a god damn museum all about me, I'm cruising about on a motherfuckin'
Spoiler alert
airship.
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Still obsessed with this and have played enough for me to join the Lydia hate, constantly shouting whenever we've entered a cave about how she doesn't like the look of it while I'm there getting my arse wet crouching in a puddle and trying to sneak around.

Sadly she's now dead as demon thing killed her while we were on a mission to repair that tree and so I had to lug all of my equipment she was carrying at a snails pass across a quarter of the map as you can't fast travel when carrying above your limit. The definition of slow travel, taking in the vistas of the land and hoping there where no enemies along the way with a turning circle quicker than a dump truck or i'd be fucked.