Saints Row

[Famous Mortimer]

My favourite ever game series is getting a "reboot", with a whole new city and new characters to play alongside your "Boss". Pre-orders are now available for a February 2022 release.

Given how they crowbarred Johnny Gat into that "Agents Of Mayhem" game, I presume the characters I know and love - Kinzie, Shaundi, Zimos, Oleg and the rest - will make an appearance or two. No sniff of gameplay footage yet, but Wikipedia says the tone of the games is going to be less wacky. While the wacky was what I enjoyed, I understand that with GTA making billions and their last couple of games not exactly being successes, that some changes would have to come. Fingers crossed they're good ones.

Any other interested people?

[bgmnts]

My favourite GTA clone. The first game was SO fun. It had Michael Rappaport and Keith David in it. So cool.

The insurance fraud mini game is one of my favourite things to do in a game ever as well. Hope the cars still control like remote control ones though.

[Rev+]

A reboot is probably the only way they could have gone after SR4, and although the trailer is a little more straight-faced, it's still daft as a brush so the silliness seems to be somewhat intact.  Wouldn't be too surprised if they went the Ghostbusters reboot route and had the characters from previous games crop up in completely unrelated capacities.  Seems like the sort of thing they'd have a giggle with.

Very much looking forward to this, and completely agree with insurance fraud being ridiculously fun once you get a proper chain going.  I get the feeling that there won't be anything quite as over-the-top as that in this one, but then again, I'm pretty sure they know that crackers stuff like that is why the series didn't sink like so many other GTA imitators.

[madhair60]

Can't wait. I loved Agents of Mayhem too - it wasn't good to play so much but I enormously respect the work they put into the character stuff.

[evilcommiedictator]

Every Saints Row game is better than GTA 4 and GTA 5. Fun, silly story with great weapons and driving against tedious side missions, underdeveloped dull characters and minigames

[samadriel]

I've only played SRIV, which was great fun, but let down a little by the very shitty urban planning -- every part of the city was blocky and square. Combining SRIV's superpowers with GTAV's nice map would be quite a combo; a map big enough that you can't glide all the way across it with your flight power might make vehicles more desirable than in SRIV too.

[Egyptian Feast]

I loved creating the most ridiculous looking character possible and watching them posturing in the cut scenes & other characters reacting to them as if they were the coolest motherfucker alive. There were so many customisation options for creating the silliest cunt imaginable, it never got old. Helped to dilute the nihilism a little. My character might be the type of evil bastard who'd leave a guy's girlfriend in the boot of a car he was about to crush with a monster truck, but no matter how much respect and cash he earns from acting the prick, he still has to look at that ludicrous face in the mirror every morning and if he ever goes to a plastic surgeon to sort it out, he's going to come out looking much worse.

[oustropique]

I know the trailer is just a cinematic, but this looks like good fun. I don't know about less wacky - the big image on the website for the game has a cinema sign that reads 'NOW SHOWING / SHOTGUN CHIMP 2', and the weapons they steal in the trailer looked pretty funky to me, so if it's just 'no superpowers', that's fair enough.

Hopefully, unlike 3 and 4, a chunk of the missions aren't just introducing you to the side content. 2 gated off missions behind the respect system, which annoyed me on console at the time, but they haven't done that for a while.

It'll be interesting to know if they bring back any characters, but it's not looking likely from this. Good on them, even if I have a real fondness for the 3/4 crew.

Day one purchase for me, probably. Hope I can still be a cockney geezer.

As a post-script, Mike Watson, the lead community developer on the official patch to make 2 tolerable on modern PCs has died of cancer. It'll be interesting to know if the patch ever surfaces now. The internet used Volition's memorial tweet to complain about the reboot trailer, obviously.

[Jock Macabre]

They've also papped the remastered version of Saints Row: The Third on the Epic store for free as well.

[thelittlemango]

Never played any of these but they look really fun. Thinking of getting one of them on the Switch, they've released SR3 and IV, what's the best one to buy?

[Egyptian Feast]

If they're the only entries available to you, I'd definitely start with SR3.

[thelittlemango]

Yep sadly they are, I'll give 3 a bash, cheers!

[Mister Six]

Never played them as they looked a bit like edgelordy GTA clones back in the day, and by the time I realised they were really stupid and OTT, it felt a bit late to be jumping on.

So yeah, I'm interested, although I found GTAs IV and V tedious in the extreme, so I hope they hold on to the daftness.

[Egyptian Feast]

Never played them as they looked a bit like edgelordy GTA clones back in the day, and by the time I realised they were really stupid and OTT, it felt a bit late to be jumping on.

So yeah, I'm interested, although I found GTAs IV and V tedious in the extreme, so I hope they hold on to the daftness.

They are kinda edgelordy tbh (no more so than GTA though), which is why I always have to play as the most ridiculous looking twat the character customisation feature will allow.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Saints Row 2 tried to make you get upset when one of your crew got murdered but since I was running about as a monstrously deformed freak and routinely murdering strangers it didn't really affect me

[Famous Mortimer]

I always had a guy with the palest skin possible and bright green hair (usually in one of the "women's" styles), and the London accent (slowed down by 10% in part 4 to make it sound even better). I identified with my Boss so much that when I watched videos of bits on Youtube with different bosses in, I always had an initial moment of confusion as to who it was.

[Famous Mortimer]

Looks like it's been put back a few months to late 2022 now. I'm happy with that, hopefully there's no crunch and it'll be nice and bug-free (relatively) when it comes out.

[Egyptian Feast]

I played Gat Out Of Hell recently and had a blast, but was hugely disappointed there was no option to load your customised lead character for the cutscenes involving them. He looked like generic Shepherd from Mass Effect, not the ridiculous misshapen freak with the sassy Latina voice that I'm used to. I refuse to accept that's what this utter cunt is supposed to look like.

[Famous Mortimer]

I played Gat Out Of Hell recently and had a blast, but was hugely disappointed there was no option to load your customised lead character for the cutscenes involving them. He looked like generic Shepherd from Mass Effect, not the ridiculous misshapen freak with the sassy Latina voice that I'm used to. I refuse to accept that's what this utter cunt is supposed to look like.

I sympathise and entirely agree.

[H-O-W-L]

The reason they delayed it is because they got pilloried for the gameplay previews, which showed that the gameplay has absolutely not changed since Saints Row 3.

Which, itself, was a makeup-and-lipstick version of Saints Row 2, which was itself a glow-up of SR1, which was a wallpapering over the foundation of the Punisher game that Volition did in 2005. There's even animations from that bloody Punisher game in this new SR's gameplay previews!

[Famous Mortimer]

The reason they delayed it is because they got pilloried for the gameplay previews, which showed that the gameplay has absolutely not changed since Saints Row 3.

Got any links for this? My go-to websites, if anything, seem to think it's being rejiggered to make it more like SR3, not less.

There's even animations from that bloody Punisher game in this new SR's gameplay previews!

Reminds me of Michael Bay reusing special effects from "The Island" in one of the Transformers movies. Odd, but not that big a deal.

[H-O-W-L]

Got any links for this? My go-to websites, if anything, seem to think it's being rejiggered to make it more like SR3, not less.

It's more of a fan-reaction thing. If you go through their twitter or a bit of YT comments (yuck) you can see them getting brickbatted for it. They were responding at first with "sorry but this is the new direction" but now they've gone a lot more quiet and have changed their tune.

Reminds me of Michael Bay reusing special effects from "The Island" in one of the Transformers movies. Odd, but not that big a deal.

It's sort of a deal because the gameplay didn't change much between SR2, SR3, 4, or GOOH, and now it looks like they're repeating that continuation of the same basic gameplay, while also touting that it's a whole new direction, and, borderline insulting fans who say they're not interested in the new direction.[nb]Seriously, they were calling them "haters" on twitter just because a few twats did the usual BDUH GIMME SHAUNDI stuff.[/nb]

I love Saints Row but the way they're handling the marketing and the looks of the previews have turned me spark off.

You can see the on-foot gameplay here. It is completely unchanged from SR4. Even the camera moves the same.

SR4 was the most interesting to me because the gameplay was made way more fun with the superpowers and stronger enemies (some of whom even used superpowers), whereas I think SR3's gunplay (and by extension SR4's) was horribly dated and very unsatisfying. Even in this you can see the same flaws -- stiff aiming and animation, enemies that barely react then explode into floaty, weightless ragdolls, instakill anims for every enemy, melee combat which snaps you to the target with no sense of timing or weight... It's just all so tiresome to see they've not refined the format at all in a decade.

[Famous Mortimer]

Never going to read a games argument (or any argument, really) on Twitter, but I'm sure the people on there had very reasoned takes.

Perhaps we're talking at slightly cross purposes, but I'm not sure Saints Row needs any alterations to the basic gameplay (which I assume means camera angles, what the controller buttons do, etc.) Racing games have been largely the same since...Out Run?...and that's older than half the people on this forum. Grand Theft Auto hasn't changed its basic mechanics in 20 years. Perhaps you're talking about the actual content of the games, and it's a legit point to say there's not a ton you can do in a mainstream crime-gang simulator that's not already been done. I never had a problem with the animations and controls, though, so perhaps you did.

Not a criticism because I loved it, but perhaps they never messed with the driving mechanics of SR3 and 4 because as soon as you got super-speed and jumps, going into a car was sort of pointless. I assume that'll get fixed.

[The Culture Bunker]

There's even animations from that bloody Punisher game in this new SR's gameplay previews!

Given they 'censored' the interrogation death scenes by making them black and white, it wasn't bloody enough! Entertaining enough game all the same.

[bgmnts]

Won't have a bad word said against the Punisher game.

A game desperately in need of a remake.

[H-O-W-L]

Won't have a bad word said against the Punisher game.

A game desperately in need of a remake.

Agreed. I just think it's farcical to use elements from it over 16 years later in an unrelated game! I still play it on PC sometimes, even if the PC port is... woeful at best.

[H-O-W-L]

Never going to read a games argument (or any argument, really) on Twitter, but I'm sure the people on there had very reasoned takes.

Perhaps we're talking at slightly cross purposes, but I'm not sure Saints Row needs any alterations to the basic gameplay (which I assume means camera angles, what the controller buttons do, etc.) Racing games have been largely the same since...Out Run?...and that's older than half the people on this forum. Grand Theft Auto hasn't changed its basic mechanics in 20 years. Perhaps you're talking about the actual content of the games, and it's a legit point to say there's not a ton you can do in a mainstream crime-gang simulator that's not already been done. I never had a problem with the animations and controls, though, so perhaps you did.

Not a criticism because I loved it, but perhaps they never messed with the driving mechanics of SR3 and 4 because as soon as you got super-speed and jumps, going into a car was sort of pointless. I assume that'll get fixed.

Did you update this after I read it the first time? Anyway-- my issue was mostly that SR3 and SR4's open world and gunplay stuff was merely "just serviceable". SR2 was a genuinely different thing to the GTAs being released at the time, you know? It was purposefully floatier and faster and sillier. Every car you got in was a relative tank on purpose because GTA4 had you driving slow iced bathtubs with papier mache windshields and no fucking seatbelt. But by SR3 it wasn't unique anymore, because SR2 had already done it. And no new things were added to change this, except maybe the shit jet bikes and planes and even then I think SR2 had a couple planes?

Aside from the plot, which is kind of shitty anyway because of dev time cuts, there's no reason, IMO, to ever play 3 over 2 or 4.

SR4 threw on the super powers which made that game eminently more playable and interesting to me, and it has a genuinely blindingly funny script and legitimately interesting plot with believable, realistic characters and a genuine sense of cameraderie and enjoyment. That game knows when to play stupid and when to play serious, instead of walking around with a big purple willy hat on at all times and thinking it's the height of comedy. Nevermind how surprisingly dark it gets -- almost as dark as SR2 at times.

But this new Saints game has none of these things. The only new element we've been shown so far is the new plot and characters -- the gunplay looks the same, just with flashier particles. The camera moves the same. The vehicles drive the same, visibly. It all looks so samey, and after nearly a decade since SR3 introduced this specific tuning, and 14 years (!) since SR2 introduced the basemetal, you'd really expect them to change things up just a bit.

Even between GTA4 and 5 they fundamentally changed the way the game played, ignorant of the giant fuckoff worlds Rockstar create that Volition definitely can't -- I don't expect that of a Saints game -- the team can manage to at least make the gameplay fresh, surely? Or at least look fresh in short previews? The mere fact that such short gameplay previews can look exactly the same, while SR2 and 4 can be such absolute poles apart, says to me that the game definitely needs the extra time in the oven, if not a serious gameplay overhaul. Reusing animations and all would be fine if it seemed to service something fresh, but it doesn't seem to.

And frankly speaking I am not interested in this new cast. I was interested in the old cast because I'd been shown enough to get interested in them, but these new ones seem like WATCH_DOGS dotcom twats who wouldn't be half out of place in a poor man's Nathan Barley. The devs are calling folk that say this sort of thing "haters" and telling them not to play the game if they're not interested -- which is a fucking dumb move, frankly.

You're already asking me to buy your product -- a whole new game -- while offering me a huge brick wall buy-in of new characters, investment wise, a complete reface of the plot, and not changing much about the gameplay we've seen so far? It just looks like Saints Row 3 and 4 -- games that worked for me -- with the chance that it might not work for me, plot-side? Where's my end, here? Instead of reassuring players that the plot opens up more familiar angles later, they're basically sticking the Vs at people disappointed we won't get more.

So with that in mind I hope they make the gameplay worth jumping in for, so that their promised plot can bloom over time like they're trying to say it will. Not that I think it will, but I'm a cynic.

I want more Saints Row but they've shown me fuck all reasons this is going to be worth my money or time so far, honestly. I don't even fundamentally dislike the characters -- they just are clearly not Saints Row characters. I liked playing a believable psychopath -- Claude from GTA3 with a voice -- in the other games. I want my psychopath back. I don't want to play a self-justifying street kid.

[bgmnts]

Remember when Saints Row was about being part of a local gang and trying to eliminate the other gangs? Now it's about super powers and self referential silliness? What a directional change.

[H-O-W-L]

Remember when Saints Row was about being part of a local gang and trying to eliminate the other gangs? Now it's about super powers and self referential silliness? What a directional change.

I think it was a good change because the original direction was very much East Coast San Andreas in many ways. SR2 was proto-cyberpunk in a lot of other ways (almost even full blown soft cyberpunk in the DLC and with some of the ULTOR tech on show, especially when you consider that Red Faction was originally intended to be canon in the Saints Row universe until SR4 retconned it.) which gave it a fresh twist, and the gang angle became much broader than merely a generic "video game gang" deal where the whole deal seems to be sticking in your local city and not much else. The Saints feel like a genuine Mafia style organization that actually produces profit in SR2 IMO, one that's expanding exponentially. This holds especially when you start taking territories. Which makes Julius's speech all the more powerful really.

[Famous Mortimer]

Remember when Saints Row was about being part of a local gang and trying to eliminate the other gangs? Now it's about super powers and self referential silliness? What a directional change.

But being a bunch of movie star former gangsters who steal bank vaults in a helicopter, get superpowers, then get elected as President and fight aliens, is a bit more fun than taking over gang territory. Well, I thought so anyway.