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March 29, 2024, 12:44:38 AM

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Hawkeye (24/11/2021 Disney+)

Started by mothman, September 21, 2021, 12:38:04 AM

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letsgobrian

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on November 25, 2021, 08:10:53 AMThough presumably it's a plot-point as the money woes her parents were arguing over in the first scene all seem to have gone by the time we get to the current day. Mother dearest involved in some shady business, probably.

The moment we saw the mum in modern day I assumed she was a super villain. I can't tell if the show is trying to pull a bait and switch with Swordsman, and we're going to be expected to be shocked when it's revealed mum was pulling the strings.

olliebean

BTW, a couple of things that really took me out of it whilst watching episode 1:

1) The bell tower collapsing. All she did was ring the bell. If that was enough to bring it down, it was clearly on the point of collapsing anyway, probably would have gone down in the next strong wind.

2) The costumes in Rogers the Musical. I get that it was supposed to be shit, but it's a big Broadway show, it ought to at least have big Broadway production values, so why did the costumes look like an am-dram company had had someone's mum run them up in her spare time?

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I'll wait and see how things develop, but it feels a little unfocussed having two main plots running concurrently. That said (and considering the running time) I thought the first two episodes flew by. I've not read any of the Maths Fractions run of the comic (because reading is for nerds), but I'm aware it's supposed to be good, so hopefully the show will follow suit.

I like the Christmas setting, even if it's still a couple of weeks too early. Between that and the comical gangsters, I'm a little surprised Shane Black didn't have a hand in this. He's not had a success since Iron Man 3 anyway.

Renner plays the role as well as he ever did, but he looks knackered. He's older than I thought, at 50, but I assumed the studios made sure the actors kept match fit for these things. The time is clearly right for him to pass the torch and Steinfeld seems like a good candidate. The rich kid thing is a little off putting, but I assume whatever dodgy dealings her mum is up to mean she'll have lost it all by the end of the series.

If they make a another live action Addams Family, Tony Dalton should definitely have first refusal on playing Gomez.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: letsgobrian on November 25, 2021, 08:21:37 AMThe moment we saw the mum in modern day I assumed she was a super villain. I can't tell if the show is trying to pull a bait and switch with Swordsman, and we're going to be expected to be shocked when it's revealed mum was pulling the strings.
I'm working on the assumption both are up to no good, but for different (independent) reasons. Presumably Jack tipped off the tracksuit mafia about the secret auction, though I'm not sure yet what the significance of the watch was.

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on November 25, 2021, 05:31:13 PMRenner plays the role as well as he ever did, but he looks knackered. He's older than I thought, at 50, but I assumed the studios made sure the actors kept match fit for these things. The time is clearly right for him to pass the torch and Steinfeld seems like a good candidate.
I think it works that the character looks beat up from all his SHIELD/Avengers work, plus his hearing fucked from all the explosions. You get the impression he really just wants to get back to his lovely country home and be with his family.

Nice touch that we were shown he'd told his wife how he'd gone off his head after Thanos clicked her and the kids out of existence. Must be nice to have a wife who forgives a bit of mass murder in the way of vigilantism.

Blue Jam

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving RockstarIf they make a another live action Addams Family, Tony Dalton should definitely have first refusal on playing Gomez.

Dalton must be among about, oooh, 15 men in history who have managed to successfully rock a 'tache.

batwings

Liked when the Depeche Mode track kicked in for the ep 2 end credits but that was about it. Pretty mediocre stuff so far.

stonkers

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on November 25, 2021, 05:31:13 PMI'll wait and see how things develop, but it feels a little unfocussed having two main plots running concurrently. That said (and considering the running time) I thought the first two episodes flew by. I've not read any of the Maths Fractions run of the comic (because reading is for nerds), but I'm aware it's supposed to be good, so hopefully the show will follow suit.

I haven't either but Kingpin is a big part of it and the rumour is Vince D'Onofrio is back for this which would be nice.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

He'll have had to mellow out some to fit with this. No more murdering people with car doors.

bakabaka

Hawkeye's younger replacement-to-be is horribly written in this. The poor little rich girl aspect is oddly unfocussed, while her youth, inexperience and naïvité are hugely overplayed, presumably so that her character arc will work. It's all so clunky and by the numbers.

But having gone in with low expectations, I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. Not the bell/clocktower scene or the musical or Hawkeye's kids but, because the fight scenes were supposed to be basic and not superheroic, they felt much more satisfying than usual with no ropework visible. Unlike in Shang Chi, where the second half looked like some kind of weird aerial ballet that destroyed any credibility.


Oh, and kudos to mjwilson for calling it back in September on the previous page(#8).

beanheadmcginty

Just noticed that Hawkeye's daughter is played by an actress named Ava Russo and her only other credit is Avengers Endgame. Hmmmm... Wonder how she managed to get those gigs. I'm sure she won those auditions fair and square, purely on merit.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I was rather surprised when Rhys Thomas popped up in the directors credit. Turns out it's not the one from Down the Line though.

Ant Farm Keyboard

Took me some time and an Internet check to realize it was Tony Dalton and not Paul F. Tompkins.

BritishHobo

I'm probably falling into exactly the same trap as I did with WandaVision and Loki (strong starts that petered out into the same old sludge), but the start of this has appealed to me. I like the little touches of how normalcy would be altered by all the big mad superhero events. Things like
Spoiler alert
seeing the first Avengers film's alien destruction of New York from the perspective of a scared kid in an apartment.
[close]
Or Hawkeye
Spoiler alert
watching a Broadway adaptation of the same events.
[close]

I just like it when they address the ways it would affect public consciousness. The little
Spoiler alert
'Thanos was right'
[close]
grafitti. It feels like real, organic consequences in a way the films rarely bothered with outside of the damp plot squib of the Sokovia Accords.

Doubtless it'll all go to shit, but I like things set at Christmas, in New York, and Jeremy Renner is always affable.

mjwilson

Quote from: bakabaka on November 25, 2021, 09:33:57 PMand kudos to mjwilson for calling it back in September on the previous page(#8).

Aw shucks

colacentral

Quote from: bakabaka on November 25, 2021, 09:33:57 PMHawkeye's younger replacement-to-be is horribly written in this. The poor little rich girl aspect is oddly unfocussed, while her youth, inexperience and naïvité are hugely overplayed, presumably so that her character arc will work. It's all so clunky and by the numbers.

But having gone in with low expectations, I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. Not the bell/clocktower scene or the musical or Hawkeye's kids but, because the fight scenes were supposed to be basic and not superheroic, they felt much more satisfying than usual with no ropework visible. Unlike in Shang Chi, where the second half looked like some kind of weird aerial ballet that destroyed any credibility.


Oh, and kudos to mjwilson for calling it back in September on the previous page(#8).

I thought the big problem with those two episodes was the direction more than anything else; specifically the direction  of the action scenes. It was hard to tell what was going on alot of time, with poor framing and choppy editing, particularly the fight around the wine shelves. As a good example, check out that shot towards the end of the second episode (I think) where it's meant to be Kate's perspective  behind the frosty windshield of the van. What is that? Awful shot, framed poorly with nothing to focus on, and it keeps cutting to it over and over again. There were lots of small, poor choices like that which took me out of it and contributed to the whole thing feeling off.

mjwilson

Interesting glimpse of
Spoiler alert
a new character
[close]
today...

olliebean

Watched episode 2; was bored; won't be watching episode 3.

mothman

Just occurred to me that the Snap hasn't really been mentioned at all. Nobody we've seen (introduced) in this gives the impression of being either Dusted or Left Behind. Kate based on her age and in flashbacks obviously wasn't; I'm guessing her mother neither. Maya and her deceased father wasn't given it was during Clint's Ronin period which was post-Snap. It's just quite striking compared to how much the Snap loomed over the plots of WV and TFatWS.

beanheadmcginty

Thought the car chase with all the different arrows was good fun.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on December 02, 2021, 09:44:02 AMThought the car chase with all the different arrows was good fun.
Very much so. The Pym arrow and the inflatable Father Christmas popping up into frame were particular highlights. It looked really good too, I thought - I'm guessing they must have used that Volume virtual set, because shots that I assume weren't done on location still looked better than green screen I watched Shang Chi the other day and that had some shockingly poor compositing in it.

I assume the two plotlines are going to converge at some point and Dalton and/or Farmiga will be revealed to be behind the Tracksuit Mafia. The murder mystery plot was barely mentioned this week and we're halfway through the series already. Plus, in classic cop show style, Vera Farmiga is too famous to not end up being a villain.

Quote from: mothman on December 01, 2021, 11:58:38 PMJust occurred to me that the Snap hasn't really been mentioned at all. Nobody we've seen (introduced) in this gives the impression of being either Dusted or Left Behind.
There was the "Thanos was right" graffiti in the first episode, but it's probably for best to play it down. I did find myself idly wondering about how it would change the Tracksuits' attitude to Hawkeye. Maya has legitimate grievance with him (although she doesn't know it yet) but, some of them must owe their, or their loved ones', continuing existence in part to him. They don't seem ruthless enough to just execute him without considering that, assuming they're aware of it. I suppose that is one of the flaws of having such monumental events take place within a shared continuity.

Glebe

I wasn't expecting much from this but I'm enjoying it. Light and fun with a little bit of drama and intrigue.

CG goop/flames looked a bit dodgy in the car chase though.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Corporate cud chewing fanboy that I am, I did get a bit excited when I realised who it was under the balaclava in the big punchup. I wonder how that moment played to anyone that hasn't seen them previously.

That aside, I thought episode four was a downgrade from the third one. The revelation that Jack is connected to the Tracksuit Mafia seems like it ought to be momentous but it landed with a muffled thud. Then again, it was such an obvious development that it must surely be a red herring.

Some very obvious Chekhov's Guns (or Chekhov's Bows, if you will) being set up, with the limited supply of arrows, the coin trick and the LARPer cops returning.

Glebe

I'd heard that
Spoiler alert
Yelana Belova
[close]
was gonna appear, going by the rumour mill the mysterious uncle could well be
Spoiler alert
Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin
[close]
.

Jack looks like Matt Berry doing Omar Sharif.

VelourSpirit

It's quite fun and nice, the humour is all well placed, emotional stuff is allowed to breathe. A little bit meandering but I'm enjoying it.

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on December 09, 2021, 04:19:38 PMCorporate cud chewing fanboy that I am, I did get a bit excited when I realised who it was under the balaclava in the big punchup. I wonder how that moment played to anyone that hasn't seen them previously.
Ep 4
Spoiler alert
Yeah thinking about it, it was a pretty well-judged reveal that should work even for people who haven't seen Yelena before. All Clint knows is that a Black Widow has been sent after him, and anyone watching can tell the significance of that. You could even work it out just from her fight moves.
[close]

mothman

A lot of it will be in how it's done, but
Spoiler alert
I rather feel that the "Yelena going after Clint for being 'responsible for' Natasha's death" storyline may be a teensy bit pointless, because it's a misunderstanding that's so easily cleared up.

There was speculation in the Black Widow thread whether Nat would have had time to tell her sister how important and dear Clint was to her (and vice versa). My feeling is she wouldn't have - because then there wouldn't be a plot! It's not a great way of going about it though.

And I'm really not convinced by JLD from her appearances in TFatWS and BW. She's so one-note evil. And to have her just blithely assume she can feed Yelena this bullshit, and not have it questioned... it's lazy writing.

Or maybe they will go down the really bleak route - having Yelena kill Clint to avenge her sister, who sacrificed her life to reunite him with his family. That'd be DARK. Can't see it happening, it's a Christmas show FFS.
[close]

VelourSpirit

Ep 4
Spoiler alert
Loved that a variation of Lorne Balfe's beautiful Yelena theme played when her face was revealed, Marvel have gotten a lot better with recurring motifs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAJaSy3XZl0
https://youtu.be/Z-M-O74eNPI?t=69
[close]

Glebe

Anyone else think that the mention of
Spoiler alert
Imagine Dragons
[close]
seemed like a bit of a clumsy on-the-nose call back to
Spoiler alert
Echo wondering if dragons were real as a kid
[close]
?

Povidone

Yeah there's been a lot of foreshadowing (which in marvel terms could be completely meaningless) in this series so far. I just hope they do something worthwhile with Yelena as she was the best thing about Black Widow by a long way and would rather not see that wasted on a pointless cameo appearance. I really feel like fuck all of any narrative consequence has happened in 4 episodes of a 6 episode limited series.

I get that Kate Bishop needs a bit of characterisation and general set up but if Kingpin is turning up in this I really don't see how they can complete a satisfying story in th next hour they have left.

Generally enjoying this but there's a damp squib prospect hanging over the whole endeavour. Couldn't give a shit about Vera Farmiga, she only appears in shit anyway, not sure what Tony Dalton is attempting, looks like he just doesn't want to be there.

Again, less than 60 minutes of actual screen time to make this not a complete waste of effort.

druss

Might be an hour and a half left, the last episode is usually a longer one and might get 40 minutes in the next one.

I wonder if they'll crowbar Kingpin and maybe Daredevil cameo in as well. I think the Netflix series weren't considered as canon but even so it would be strange to see Kingpin appear and not have Daredevil involved somehow as well.

letsgobrian

I have no idea why you'd think Kingpin is showing up from the text of the show. Seems like Jack is the obvious choice to be Echo's uncle here (and thus she gets some of Hawkeye's comic book origin of Swordsman as a father figure).