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March 28, 2024, 11:38:20 PM

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31 dead as boat sinks in Channel

Started by SpiderChrist, November 24, 2021, 08:27:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Sebastian Cobb

Did they ever manage to fuck up legal aid? At one point they were going to give it to Eddie Stobart, I know that didn't happen but I'm curious if it got dropped or watered down.

Johnny Foreigner

Haven't kept up with Matthew Parris's Times work for the last twenty years; James Delingpole was much worse, though. There's a fine bit of discourse analysis in that Mic Wright piece.

QuoteI believe Parris chooses his words carefully and the ones he opts for are "settlers", "intruders" and "foreigners" arriving "univited". There is a pretence here that he is just reflecting the "illiberalism of the British people" rather than agreeing with it.

In any case: have you never wondered why everybody remembers the Titanic whilst the Princess Alice is completely forgotten? I am convinced it is because, unlike the Titanic, the Princess Alice carried nobody glamorous. That is how the human mind works: alluring people elicit more sympathy than faceless numbers. It has nothing to do with a 'hierarchy' of sympathy, as Parris claims. You are more likely to feel sorry for someone pretty and appealing than for someone ugly and off-putting.

holyzombiejesus

Good article from Kent Online where the journalist contacts people who left laughing emojis when the paper reported the deaths.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/27-people-drowned-and-i-laughed-258352/

Kankurette

I love how they assume ALL asylum seekers are murderers and rapists. Even the little kids. Because we don't have any of those in Britain.

Fambo Number Mive

QuoteThe RNLI have confirmed one of their crews was blocked from going on a call by fishermen who said they did not want any more migrants being rescued after the incident was witnessed by an LBC caller.

A spokesperson for the charity confirmed the incident had been reported to the police, and that the lifeboat was eventually able to launch.

It comes as rescuers fear the "floating death trap" dinghy which capsized in the Channel, leading to the deaths of at least 27 people including children, may have collided with a container ship.

The caller told James O'Brien she witnessed fishermen blocking an RNLI lifeboat from rescuing migrants and shouting "don't bring any more of those home, we're full up"...

Utterly disgusting. Surely if Insulate Britain protestors can be charged for blocking roads the fishermen can be charged for blocking an RNLI lifeboat and putting lives at risk. Can they be charged with attempted murder? To me stopping people from being rescued by the RNLI is attempted murder.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/fishermen-blocked-rnli-boat-rescuing-migrants/

Dusty Substance

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on December 02, 2021, 09:48:01 AMUtterly disgusting. Surely if Insulate Britain protestors can be charged for blocking roads the fishermen can be charged for blocking an RNLI lifeboat and putting lives at risk. Can they be charged with attempted murder? To me stopping people from being rescued by the RNLI is attempted murder.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/fishermen-blocked-rnli-boat-rescuing-migrants/

Looks like this story has been greatly exaggerated and blown out of proportion. According to this video, the "group of fishermen" was actually just one dickhead shouting and not exactly "blocking" but just standing there: https://twitter.com/KavyMan1984/status/1465597778902634501



JaDanketies

I thought that looked like a news story where the sole source was some guy who called into a talk radio show spouting off.

Kankurette

I am definitely donating money to them this Christmas. Partly out of spite because they piss off so many right-wingers by being impartial about who they drag out of the sea, the bastards.

Johnny Yesno


Endicott

Quote from: Dusty Substance on December 02, 2021, 01:01:49 PMLooks like this story has been greatly exaggerated and blown out of proportion. According to this video, the "group of fishermen" was actually just one dickhead shouting and not exactly "blocking" but just standing there: https://twitter.com/KavyMan1984/status/1465597778902634501

Yep. This was the story in the local rag. Basically one arsehole lorry driver mouthing off and the overactive imagination of an idiot talking to LBC.

https://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/people/hastings-fishermen-explain-circumstances-over-rnli-lifeboat-blocking-3476922

Buelligan

Whilst we're thinking about what to do for the human beings willing to risk their lives to cross the Channel, we could read and watch the latest BBC news on drought in East Africa. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-africa-59513118

We could think about how many people need to be made utterly desperate, by famine, drought, war, before the rich nations realise we need to change what's happening.  And then actually change. 

Porky

Quote from: jobotic on November 25, 2021, 04:49:59 PMIs that as classy as Scott Benton MP (corrupt slayer of cultural Marxism and homosexuality) saying these deaths show we need to get rid of (The) Human Rights (Act)?

The issue is that the human rights act was formulated around dealing with the behaviour of the axis powers and to a lesser extent the allies during and before world war two. It was not intended to deal with issues such as the large numbers of migrants entering Europe and elsewhere, rather it was intended to help people to remain in safety in their own historic homelands. The problem is that a festering human rights industry has built up over the last 50 years that has abused and twisted the principles and intentions of the human rights act.

Buelligan

What is this festering human rights industry, built up over the last 50 years that has abused and twisted the principles and intentions of the human rights act?  What are the principles so twisted and abused?

What are historic homelands?  The US?  Palestine?  What if historic homelands are stricken by climate change, brought about in no small part by "our" festering industries, whose desk does that fall upon?

Should countries prosecute war constantly in the historic homelands of other sovereign peoples?  Should they fatten up the war pigs with weapons and then clutch their pearls when some manage to escape the abattoir?

Why does this festering human rights industry need dealing with - ahead of all the other ills, like the festering weapons industry, assailing humanity?

Kankurette

Human rights? Festering? Really?

You should go on and post in the human extinction thread, you'd fit in there.

Quote from: Porky on December 03, 2021, 10:41:33 AMThe issue is that the human rights act was formulated around dealing with the behaviour of the axis powers and to a lesser extent the allies during and before world war two. It was not intended to deal with issues such as the large numbers of migrants entering Europe and elsewhere, rather it was intended to help people to remain in safety in their own historic homelands. The problem is that a festering human rights industry has built up over the last 50 years that has abused and twisted the principles and intentions of the human rights act.

You seem to be confused between the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR), which was created after WWII by the newly formed Council of Europe to avoid any recurrence of the atrocities both before and during the war, and the UK's Human Rights 1998, which formally incorporated these rights into the law of the UK.

Both contain a multitude of rights, which have evolved over the years as societies have changed, with the addition of economic, social and cultural rights, and are nothing to do with 'historic homelands'.

Porky

Quote from: Clatty McCutcheon on December 03, 2021, 11:40:28 AMYou seem to be confused between the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR), which was created after WWII by the newly formed Council of Europe to avoid any recurrence of the atrocities both before and during the war, and the UK's Human Rights 1998, which formally incorporated these rights into the law of the UK.

Both contain a multitude of rights, which have evolved over the years as societies have changed, with the addition of economic, social and cultural rights, and are nothing to do with 'historic homelands'.
By the way I am not confused, it is you are confused regarding what atrocities they were intended to prevent they were also everything to do with encouraging, helping and ensuring that people could and would mostly remain in their historic homelands and all about discouraging mass movement of people across vast distances, the people who formulated that convention would be horrified by what is happening now.

Buelligan

But what constitutes an "historic homeland"?  Please explain which principles have been abused and twisted.

As already asked -

Quote from: Buelligan on December 03, 2021, 11:19:23 AMWhat is this festering human rights industry, built up over the last 50 years that has abused and twisted the principles and intentions of the human rights act?  What are the principles so twisted and abused?

What are historic homelands?  The US?  Palestine?  What if historic homelands are stricken by climate change, brought about in no small part by "our" festering industries, whose desk does that fall upon?

Should countries prosecute war constantly in the historic homelands of other sovereign peoples?  Should they fatten up the war pigs with weapons and then clutch their pearls when some manage to escape the abattoir?

Why does this festering human rights industry need dealing with - ahead of all the other ills, like the festering weapons industry, assailing humanity?

Porky

You keep responding in the same way. Providing a welcome and a home to all these people is a nice option. A couple of numbers get in the way though .. UK population 67 million, landmass is 240 square kilometres. It would be better if these people did not come here as there is simply not enough room. Far better if we stop poking our nose into other countries affairs and allow them to live their lives out in their country of origin.

Buelligan

I'm sorry if it irritates, you brought up the "festering human rights industry, built up over the last 50 years that has abused and twisted the principles and intentions of the human rights act", the "historic homelands", you're the one that asserted that principles had been "twisted and abused", I'm just asking you to explain that.  To clarify and evidence those allegations.

Sure, it'd be great if we stopping poking our noses in (stopped polluting, stopped consuming, stopped selling the weapons and living high on the hog on the profits) but we're not doing that. 

Where are the voices, balancing those railing against the migrants, crying out about that?  Who is platforming that? 

More importantly IMO, who in reality, in sanity, expects to start an avalanche and then stop it when they realise their home is in danger?  Especially when they're continuing to push boulders off the top of the mountain at the same time.


Endicott

Quote from: Porky on December 03, 2021, 02:45:19 PMFar better if we stop poking our nose into other countries affairs and allow them to live their lives out in their country of origin.

There is the matter of the previous few hundred years of poking which still needs to be addressed. Legacy of empire.

chveik


Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: Porky on December 03, 2021, 02:45:19 PMYou keep responding in the same way. Providing a welcome and a home to all these people is a nice option. A couple of numbers get in the way though .. UK population 67 million, landmass is 240 square kilometres. It would be better if these people did not come here as there is simply not enough room. Far better if we stop poking our nose into other countries affairs and allow them to live their lives out in their country of origin.

By that logic, no one from the UK should be allowed to emigrate to a more densly populated country because "there is simply not enough room".

In October 2019, there were found to be over 648,114 empty homes in England alone. This represents a 2.2% increase on the previous year's total. Of the 648,114, 225,845 were classed as long-term empty properties (empty for longer than six months). We've also got a lot of commerical properties lying vacant that could be demolished and turned into housing. Whenever I go down one of the main streets in Oxford I see several large commercial properties that have remained vacant for years. Imagine if those properties were demolished and some affordable housing built in its place.

The population of the Uk and the landmass of the UK doesn't get in the way of Buelligan's argument. We could easily provide home for hundreds of thousands of refugees, if we managed to find billions for Test and Trace, we can find a couple of million for welcoming, housing and supporting refugees each year. And if refugees were allowed to work in the UK (or is it just England that does not allow this?) they would be contributing to the economy. Perhaps we might even be able to find some more lorry drivers or fill other vacancies where there is a skills gap.

bgmnts

Quote from: Porky on December 03, 2021, 02:45:19 PMYou keep responding in the same way. Providing a welcome and a home to all these people is a nice option. A couple of numbers get in the way though .. UK population 67 million, landmass is 240 square kilometres. It would be better if these people did not come here as there is simply not enough room. Far better if we stop poking our nose into other countries affairs and allow them to live their lives out in their country of origin.

Right but we already have done that, and surely our quality of life - and the issues in nations from where a lot of these refugees are fleeing -is a direct result of having done that to an absurd degree and raped the fuck out of other homelands...


Johnny Foreigner

Quote from: Porky on December 03, 2021, 02:45:19 PMIt would be better if these people did not come here as there is simply not enough room. Far better if we stop poking our nose into other countries affairs and allow them to live their lives out in their country of origin.
Few of 'these people' would come here if they had no reason to. Tribes have been migrating since prehistoric times, long before nation-states existed—be it because of famine or attacks from other tribes. You cannot 'allow' these people anything without interfering in foreign countries' affairs. Isolationism per definition means non-interference in foreign countries, which in turn means nothing would change at all.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Porky on December 03, 2021, 02:45:19 PMUK population 67 million, landmass is 240 square kilometres.

I can see why you're freaking out. That is tight. However, the UK land mass is over 240 thousand square kilometres. Phew!

bgmnts

Also how is there not enough room for a few hundred thousand more people when just a few dozen have homes and private land bigger than my entire village? How does that work?

All Surrogate

Quote from: Porky on December 03, 2021, 11:58:36 AMthey were also ... all about discouraging mass movement of people across vast distances

Please supply some evidence for this. I'm genuinely interested.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: bgmnts on December 03, 2021, 05:57:16 PMAlso how is there not enough room for a few hundred thousand more people when just a few dozen have homes and private land bigger than my entire village? How does that work?


They bring their bloody three-tailed cats with, them don't they?