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March 29, 2024, 04:00:59 PM

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Peter, we've lost the NHS

Started by Johnny Yesno, December 08, 2021, 07:15:41 PM

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Buelligan

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on January 04, 2022, 02:58:49 PMReminds me of Kinnock's speech in 1983 about Thatcher. I warn you not to be young, I warn you not to be ordinary, I warn you not to fall ill and I warn you not to grow old.

Probably one of the best political speeches, as rubbish as Kinnock was once he became leader you'd never get the current turd we have as Labour leader saying anything like that.

I'm sure he'd say it - he gave us the ten pledges, after all.  And remember, all those times he praised St Jeromety of Crobbitch.  That's why I hate him so much, he'll say anything, even something deeply, deeply, serious and important and not care about it or believe in it or feel bound by it, whatsoever. 

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Zetetic on January 04, 2022, 02:23:51 PMWorth noting this sort of thing:
https://www.boots-uk.com/newsroom/news/you-can-now-access-an-online-doctor-with-boots/

QuotePatients will pay for each service as and when they need it on a pay as you go model, with prices starting from £15 inclusive of the prescription costs, with the opportunity to earn Boots Advantage Card points on purchases.

Every cloud...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/sajid-javid-plans-academy-school-style-nhs-revolution/ar-AASSEhl?li=AAwnS0s

QuoteThe Health Secretary is planning to set up academy style hospitals to tackle post-pandemic waiting lists.

Under the re-organisation, Sajid Javid will give more freedom to well-run hospitals that manage to treat patients quickly.

But he will come down hard on failing NHS trusts in an attempt to deal with the 'huge' variation in performance across the health service.

Poorly-run hospitals would face being turned into 'reform trusts', The Times reports, similar to the Blairite reforms that saw schools rated as inadequate taken over.

And leading NHS managers, or outside sponsors, could be put in charge of chains of hospitals.

Zetetic

Fingers-crossed this will involve chucking a tonne of cash at any outside cunts to make it worth their while, which will then translate into lovely Barnett consequentials.

Johnny Yesno


olliebean

QuoteUnder the re-organisation, Sajid Javid will give more freedom to well-run hospitals that manage to treat patients quickly.

I guess that's it for treatment of chronic conditions, then.

Zetetic

Quote from: Zetetic on December 09, 2021, 02:18:53 PMBut what the decade-long chronic and couple-of-years-long acute collapse has done is begin to seriously boost demand for privately-funded healthcare.
Here we go!

https://twitter.com/cthomasippr/status/1509071059865251840

TrenterPercenter

QuoteImportantly, that does not mean they no longer believe in its founding mission. People almost universally back an NHS that is free, comprehensive, universal and tax funded.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Zetetic on March 30, 2022, 09:05:08 AMHere we go!

https://twitter.com/cthomasippr/status/1509071059865251840

That's how they always do it, isn't it? Underfund for so long that the system becomes unworkable, and then present their solution...

Zetetic

No, not always.

There are at least two distinct approaches:

1. Handover taxpayer-funded services to private contractors to skim from. This is what they did do with the trains, and they tried with bits of the English NHS.

This mostly doesn't work with the health service because the funding is so bad that you cannot skim a decent amount and even pretend to be running a service. (Long-stay mental health and learning disabilities hospitals arean exception for various reasons.)

2. You run the public service into the ground and let a two-tier - public for dolescum, private for the rest - arrangement emerge.

There are many reasons why "Save our NHS from privatisation!" campaigners have been so ineffective, but one is that they've been overly focused on the first approach which - while not non-existent - has largely been irrelevant thanks to how fucked all healthcare funding is.



Zetetic

I believe we've now reached a critical point with the second approach.

The combination of a shift towards technology-enabled telecare and the complete failure of NHS-funded primary and unscheduled care means that a lot more people are going to try private care in the next few months. If you can't get an appointment at your practice and your local A&E is begging you to stay the fuck away then you might well consider paying £20 for an online call with a GP, if it's the difference between going into work tomorrow or not.


We might see some of the existing wedges - e.g. physiotherapy, psychotherapy - gain much more prominence as well. (And, not that every thread on CaB has to come back to this, but - the way that the two tier approach is already embedded in medical gender transition stuff in the UK is fascinating.)

TrenterPercenter

#41
Quote from: Zetetic on March 31, 2022, 08:17:11 AM2. You run the public service into the ground and let a two-tier - public for dolescum, private for the rest - arrangement emerge.

There are many reasons why "Save our NHS from privatisation!" campaigners have been so ineffective, but one is that they've been overly focused on the first approach which - while not non-existent - has largely been irrelevant thanks to how fucked all healthcare funding is.

This is on the money, however it ignores the fact that it is also because of leftwing preoccupations with identity and culture.

The concept of universal healthcare emerged itself from a collective vision for shared public infrastructure. When you are channelling arguments always through the prism that people are different and more or less deserving (even if you don't realise that is what you are doing) you are working against this (and for the millionth time no this doesn't mean throwing groups under the bus it means start talking about collective approaches to problems that are not based on othering large sections of the voting public - and of course ignoring the "controversial" people in the media that are paid try and distract you from this).

TrenterPercenter

Added to this and just to make this starker for people that still can't get there head around this is what do you think happens in the emerging two-tier system Zetetic describes?

People resent others for the tiering they find themselves in; this won't be presented as a problem of collective funding, it will be a problem of too many people (as it already has been, and of course ignoring the fact that no insurance company worries about having too many customers).


Kankurette

We're also dealing with a population who live longer compared to Nye Bevan's time.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Kankurette on March 31, 2022, 01:52:14 PMWe're also dealing with a population who live longer compared to Nye Bevan's time.

Yes and this is an interesting element politically that the news never really explains.

So you are old, you've paid taxes into the pot and now you expect the state to look after you in your diminishing health without you having to pay for it with your house that you intend to leave to your children. 

This should be of course a massive advert for a national care service; we could say tomorrow we are all paying an extra NI contributions to cover this but the desire is for less taxes.  There is actually lots of support for progressive taxation it's just the right-wingers in the media that love tapping into the 25% lost in the Tory mindset of wanting better services and the state to care for them but not paying for it....and of course there is a whole alliance of wealthy and petit-bougies of which low taxes benefit so always want the conversation on immigrant-based scarcities of care.

Zetetic

Following healthy growth which bucked the economic trends of 2020-21, the self-pay market continued its trajectory of market-beating growth throughout 2021-22. Key underlying drivers for this have been NHS waiting lists and NHS demand management. Statistics are now showing people increasingly turning to private healthcare providers to access care. This has been supported by growing awareness of private GPs, consultants and diagnostic services. Furthermore, patients can access services via technology platforms, bringing people into contact with private healthcare for the first time.

https://www.laingbuisson.com/shop/private-healthcare-self-pay-uk-market-report-4ed/

olliebean

The absolute desolation of that report being optimistic about the sustained declining availability of NHS services.