Therapists and people-pleasing

[canadagoose]

Just before the New Year, I thought I'd do something "positive" and sign up for online therapy. I thought it'd let me get my thoughts out about everything and try to do something with my ridiculous life. So I did. But here's the problem... I can't be honest to my therapist about how I'm feeling because I can't stop trying to be a nice person. This has happened in the past with other people I've tried to speak to about things, which means I end up trying to be nice for 45 minutes and then blurting a load of stuff out when there's only 5 minutes left. Repeat ad nauseam. Also, I get really nervous talking over the phone and in person. I just can't express myself properly in speech, and I don't think therapists really understand that that's something that will never change, it's just how things are. They seem to spend too long trying to change my nature and then I feel like I have to pretend that it has changed, and that I feel better (when I don't) so I don't disappoint them.

The other problem is that the therapist seems very nice and all, but in a "kindly aunt" way. I can't imagine telling one of my aunts about my most intimate thoughts, so there's a problem there. I can't afford any more sessions and I want to cancel but I feel guilty about it because I feel like she'll feel bad. Can't bloody believe it, I'd just tell anyone else to stop paying and leave.

Er yeah, so that's that. Do any of you have this problem and how did you get around it? There must be a way. What are you supposed to do?

[TrenterPercenter]

Just before the New Year, I thought I'd do something "positive" and sign up for online therapy. I thought it'd let me get my thoughts out about everything and try to do something with my ridiculous life. So I did. But here's the problem... I can't be honest to my therapist about how I'm feeling because I can't stop trying to be a nice person. This has happened in the past with other people I've tried to speak to about things, which means I end up trying to be nice for 45 minutes and then blurting a load of stuff out when there's only 5 minutes left. Repeat ad nauseam. Also, I get really nervous talking over the phone and in person. I just can't express myself properly in speech, and I don't think therapists really understand that that's something that will never change, it's just how things are. They seem to spend too long trying to change my nature and then I feel like I have to pretend that it has changed, and that I feel better (when I don't) so I don't disappoint them.

The other problem is that the therapist seems very nice and all, but in a "kindly aunt" way. I can't imagine telling one of my aunts about my most intimate thoughts, so there's a problem there. I can't afford any more sessions and I want to cancel but I feel guilty about it because I feel like she'll feel bad. Can't bloody believe it, I'd just tell anyone else to stop paying and leave.

Er yeah, so that's that. Do any of you have this problem and how did you get around it? There must be a way. What are you supposed to do?

See all the bits I've highlighted in bold tell your therapist this, it is their job to work with problems exactly like this - there is nothing to be embarrassed about this is very common.

Also tell them you can't afford to continue sessions and if they can't come to arrangement then you'll need to cancel.  You are receiving a service (one that is meant to be useful) and paying for it you have the right to cancel at anytime again any therapist worth their salt is not going to put any pressure on you here.

[TrenterPercenter]

Also lots of places are doing live chat sessions (some for free - I'll have a look for you) or via email where you can type rather than speak.  This is going to be increasingly available in the coming years.

[TrenterPercenter]

Check this out CG - try CABA first

https://www.caba.org.uk/how-we-help/emotional-support

https://www.qwell.io/caba

[canadagoose]

See all the bits I've highlighted in bold tell your therapist this, it is their job to work with problems exactly like this - there is nothing to be embarrassed about this is very common.

Also tell them you can't afford to continue sessions and if they can't come to arrangement then you'll need to cancel.  You are receiving a service (one that is meant to be useful) and paying for it you have the right to cancel at anytime again any therapist worth their salt is not going to put any pressure on you here.

Thanks Trenter, I could really do to do that. The thing is, after the first week, I told her I'd be more comfortable in text chat but the first time her internet broke and the second time she typed really slowly and I felt guilty. She asked if I wanted to do a phone session the week after and I agreed. You can tell I'm shite at this.

Check this out CG

https://www.qwell.io/caba

Thanks, will have a look at this.

[TrenterPercenter]

Thanks Trenter, I could really do to do that. The thing is, after the first week, I told her I'd be more comfortable in text chat but the first time her internet broke and the second time she typed really slowly and I felt guilty. She asked if I wanted to do a phone session the week after and I agreed. You can tell I'm shite at this.

You could explain this to her and go the email route or you could type on the screen and she could talk if her typing isn't up to speed.  Seems to me you would be doing you both favours in being honest with her.

sorry bolded guilty because you don't need to feeling guilty about things like this - this is counterproductive to what you should be getting out of sessions.

[Blinder Data]

I've never done therapy but people I know who are healthcare professionals of all types have told me it's common for clients/patients to save the important stuff until the last possible moment - in many cases, after they've stood up to leave and been asked "was there anything else?". So please don't beat yourself up about that particular aspect of your problem.

I think it sounds like you could benefit from a different approach, though honestly I don't know how to find the right one for you - unless you want to scrawl through this? https://www.bacp.co.uk/about-therapy/types-of-therapy/

Is there a MoneySuperMarket for therapy?

Best of luck with it all. I would love to do some therapy but telephone/Zoom is not for me. I would need physical space between my home and a place to discuss sensitive issues.

[QDRPHNC]

If you feel like you can't be open with your therapist, you need another one. Not in a bad way, you just need to click with someone.

When you find the new therapist, tell them exactly what you say here. That you take up most of the session trying to be nice. That way they'll be on the lookout for it and steer you away from it.

[TheGingerAlien]

Er yeah, so that's that. Do any of you have this problem and how did you get around it? There must be a way. What are you supposed to do?

Sadly I have absolutely no useful advice other than to say - yeah I felt like that during the first lockdown when I managed to bag some CBT on the NHS (after 11 month wait).  Due to the ongoing massive shortcomings in mental health provisioning, I actually ended up with someone in training to be a therapist who was almost half my age and a seemingly a tad disinterested in the whole thing. Despite this, I really wanted them to feel like they'd had some success with me (especially as the sessions were being shared with tutors etc) so ended up playing up how useful / effective it was.  In reality it was just mega depressing as just made me feel even more of a sad old twat; droning on about my head woes to someone far younger and cooler than me.  Think she was just as relieved as I was when we wrapped up the last session, so that's a positive I suppose...

As folks above say I guess you need to click with the right person.  For me personally at the mo, I'm tapped out on all that stuff - the levels of anxiety that such sessions bring out seem to outweigh the benefits of pouring my mind out into the ether.  Anyhoo - good on you for trying something positive, even if it was ultimately shite!  Hope 2022 is a better one.

[Glebe]

I've had a lot if counselling and found a lot if it is getting things off your chest buy not necessarily getting needed advice in return all the time.

[TrenterPercenter]

Depends what you are looking for counsellors and therapists (psychotherapists) are different, you'd struggle to find a psychotherapist that didn't deliver counselling also but lots of counsellors are generally not trained in psychotherapy.

You can get counsellors that you just talk to that will not give you any advice (Rogerian counselling) with people like the Samaritans being the obvious group that uses a proxy for this in their 'active listening' and befriending.

Psychotherapists will generally be delivering much more substantial and directed models - like CBT for instance but there are loads of others it's just CBT drowns everything else out (because it is useful for anxiety and anxiety is the big doorway to MH).  There is CAT for instance which is all about past trauma, DBT which is usually diary based, Interpersonal therapy for when issues are to do with other people. 

Counsellors and psychotherapists train to work with people, they are not there to judge or force you to "pull yourself together", they are not experts on life either, they are largely trained in delivering therapeutic models and communication, which they apply in session.  It's a job, they will likely be out getting pissed and making the same mistakes as most humans do on a regular basis.  Just like any industry there are people that are very good at what they do, others not so good but learning and others that shouldn't be let anywhere near the machinery.  For some reason we hold therapists/counsellors/psychologists to a different standard so we get people going I did x and it didn't work therefore x is crap - when really they had a bad therapist or a model that wasn't suitable for them.

We've still got this tendency to view it all as something mythical, otherworldly and usually dangerous, when in reality it's just someone helping someone else with their mind just a like physiotherapist helps someone with their body - they don't care about your spotty bottom they are professionals and have seen it all before (though if a therapist asks to see your bottom then yes this is a problem).  This is all to do with due to lots of old stereotyping from "real science", the media (mainly rightwing) and individuals (especially in the UK, in the states they love a therapist) that psychology is "woo", aspects with elitist-archaicisms in the psychological training establishment itself (a big problem) and the relatively new science that is psychology (and it's somewhat recent dodgy past).

[Sebastian Cobb]

I've never done therapy but people I know who are healthcare professionals of all types have told me it's common for clients/patients to save the important stuff until the last possible moment - in many cases, after they've stood up to leave and been asked "was there anything else?". So please don't beat yourself up about that particular aspect of your problem.

No joke, some doctors call it the 'Columbo effect'.

[canadagoose]

I've never done therapy but people I know who are healthcare professionals of all types have told me it's common for clients/patients to save the important stuff until the last possible moment - in many cases, after they've stood up to leave and been asked "was there anything else?". So please don't beat yourself up about that particular aspect of your problem.

I think it sounds like you could benefit from a different approach, though honestly I don't know how to find the right one for you - unless you want to scrawl through this? https://www.bacp.co.uk/about-therapy/types-of-therapy/

Is there a MoneySuperMarket for therapy?

Best of luck with it all. I would love to do some therapy but telephone/Zoom is not for me. I would need physical space between my home and a place to discuss sensitive issues.

Thanks, hopefully I'll have some luck. I know what you mean about phone/Zoom stuff - I get particularly anxious on Zoom calls because not only can they hear me panicking, they can see me fidgeting and looking away too.

If you feel like you can't be open with your therapist, you need another one. Not in a bad way, you just need to click with someone.

When you find the new therapist, tell them exactly what you say here. That you take up most of the session trying to be nice. That way they'll be on the lookout for it and steer you away from it.

Yes, I think you're right. I'll make a point of doing this next time!

Sadly I have absolutely no useful advice other than to say - yeah I felt like that during the first lockdown when I managed to bag some CBT on the NHS (after 11 month wait).  Due to the ongoing massive shortcomings in mental health provisioning, I actually ended up with someone in training to be a therapist who was almost half my age and a seemingly a tad disinterested in the whole thing. Despite this, I really wanted them to feel like they'd had some success with me (especially as the sessions were being shared with tutors etc) so ended up playing up how useful / effective it was.  In reality it was just mega depressing as just made me feel even more of a sad old twat; droning on about my head woes to someone far younger and cooler than me.  Think she was just as relieved as I was when we wrapped up the last session, so that's a positive I suppose...

As folks above say I guess you need to click with the right person.  For me personally at the mo, I'm tapped out on all that stuff - the levels of anxiety that such sessions bring out seem to outweigh the benefits of pouring my mind out into the ether.  Anyhoo - good on you for trying something positive, even if it was ultimately shite!  Hope 2022 is a better one.

That sounds familiar. I think that happened the first time I saw a psychotherapist, in around 2006. She just kept saying things and giving me worksheets and I came away feeling frustrated that nothing had really changed. I know what you mean about the anxiety too - I'm always anxious during phone sessions. Thanks for the well-wishes, anyway.

I've had a lot if counselling and found a lot if it is getting things off your chest buy not necessarily getting needed advice in return all the time.

Sorry to hear it's not been so good for you. It's really hard to get the balance right, I find.

(post about psychotherapy, counselling etc)

Thanks for the info. I'm not so sure about CBT or mindfulness these days, I feel like I've gone through it umpteen times before and I know the techniques, and still try to deploy them, but it feels like they don't seem to do very much. I used to have a psychologist through the diabetic clinic but she left three years ago and I've never seen one since, just a psychiatrist for purely medication-related stuff.

No joke, some doctors call it the 'Columbo effect'.

I know I often feel like Columbo when I'm at the doctor's. I'm glad they've noticed!

[flotemysost]

I had this issue with the course of CBT that I was referred for in 2019. The therapist herself was great, but the nature/structure of the sessions meant lots of worksheets and written exercises, and I'm fucking TERRIBLE at doing things to a deadline so obviously I left it til the last minute every week - mostly I just scribbled down some hastily concocted answers that would give a score which made it seem like I was making some progress, five minutes before I had to leave for the session.

(I think also because it was NHS therapy, I had a weird guilt hanging over my head about being a privileged little middle-class idiot sapping vital and highly-stretched resources with my stupid problems - especially because I happened to massively luck out in getting an appointment within days of referring myself, when I know there are scores of people waiting for months and months.)

And with the handful of talking therapy sessions I had back when I was at uni (offered free to students but in high demand, unsurprisingly) I used to downplay things a lot; it makes me cringe now, but I remember being a bit giggly and coy when describing what was basically a (TW)

Spoiler alert

sexual assault

[close]

, because I was embarrassed I think, until the therapist kindly but firmly assured me there was no need to make excuses for this person.

Anyway, not much practical advice to add but it must be a really common problem. The BACP link Blinder shared is a good shout; recently I keep putting my postcode into the site just to see who's near me and what they specialise in. Most profiles of individual therapists on there give a pretty good indication of what their approach is as well as the kind of topics they cover, and from what I've seen, it looks like some offer the first session free so you can both be sure it's a good fit, so that might be worth looking into. Good luck!

[TrenterPercenter]

I think a lot of people struggle with CBT because it is homework focused - don't think there is anyway around this as it is part of the model.  I think what we are really missing are good triage and assessments carried out prior to MH treatment - this is something that is always foolishly scrimped on (and would mean people could get a good idea of what is available and what is suitable for them i.e. personalised care).

(I think also because it was NHS therapy, I had a weird guilt hanging over my head about being a privileged little middle-class idiot sapping vital and highly-stretched resources with my stupid problems - especially because I happened to massively luck out in getting an appointment within days of referring myself, when I know there are scores of people waiting for months and months.)

As someone that used to do this kind of work for NHS it's sad to hear you felt this way.  Treating people regardless of what class they are is what it does.  Much more problematic are people with prejudices & hatred towards the NHS or who think the people that work in it aren't just other humans just like them.  That is what really makes providing treatment harder. 

[bgmnts]

Talking to therapists is hard because obviously it's in their best interest to diagnose you with something to justify their payroll. You can't just be depressed because life is shit, you have to have a problem, and sometimes you don't. So I feel sometimes there is a deal of dishonesty or miscommunication.

And yeah obviously people of a certain class usually have a better access to mental health services and probably dont have that mentality of just get on with it that a lot of lower class people do, so I dont really think anyone going should feel guilty for taking services away from people more needy, as I dont believe they exist anyway.

[Registering to lurk]

You could explain this to her and go the email route or you could type on the screen and she could talk if her typing isn't up to speed.  Seems to me you would be doing you both favours in being honest with her.

sorry bolded guilty because you don't need to feeling guilty about things like this

I agree. You've done a really good job of explaining your situation in section bolded above. Can you just email that to your therapist before the next session?

[TrenterPercenter]

Talking to therapists is hard because obviously it's in their best interest to diagnose you with something to justify their payroll. You can't just be depressed because life is shit, you have to have a problem, and sometimes you don't. So I feel sometimes there is a deal of dishonesty or miscommunication.

Yes views like this.

Why would it be "in their interests to diagnose you with something to justify their payroll" you think therapists get paid by the diagnosis?  There is a whole movement called transdiagnostics which disagrees with the very concept of diagnoses and disorders.

You absolutely can be depressed because life is shit - that is exactly how it works.

[bgmnts]

You absolutely can be depressed because life is shit - that is exactly how it works.

So it's not a disease or condition then? Just a natural reaction? Would be nice if we addressed the root causes like poverty and economic injustice and shit services instead of throwing therapy and pills at it but that's just me.

[Zetetic]

So it's not a disease or condition then? Just a natural reaction?

These things aren't exclusive. Sepsis is a 'natural reaction' to infection that is counterproductive and viciously circular.

Which doesn't really detract from the point that you do need to tackle the underlying cause if there is one - but at the same time, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to undo the unhelpful reaction to that problem (in the case of sepsis, trying to fix things like dangerously low blood pressure).

[markburgle]

So it's not a disease or condition then? Just a natural reaction? Would be nice if we addressed the root causes like poverty and economic injustice and shit services instead of throwing therapy and pills at it but that's just me.

It's case by case. Some people are depressed AF with no external cause. Pointless to generalise about. And yeah I'm currently on my 4th therapist and they're the 1st that has ventured to try and put a diagnostic label on what I'm going through (which I found helpful. It's a nice shorthand and you can use it to sound more interesting at parties)

[bgmnts]

It's case by case. Some people are depressed AF with no external cause. Pointless to generalise about. And yeah I'm currently on my 4th therapist and they're the 1st that has ventured to try and put a diagnostic label on what I'm going through (which I found helpful. It's a nice shorthand and you can use it to sound more interesting at parties)

But life is mostly shit whoever you are, you will be subjected to everything that's shit about life either directly or indirectly regardless of your situation.

To me, being mind numbingly depressed is the natural way to be, it's the natural reaction to a set of conditions. Nothing else makes sense without being either ignoranf or lacking empathy.

That's been my stance for years because I've been depressed for a very long time so I like to think I have a little bit of understanding. Nothing happens in a vacuum. If therapy helps someone personally that's great. But then if crystals or holistics helps someone that's great too.

[Zetetic]

Would a reaction being the 'natural' one imply either that's the right one or a preferable one?

Or that you can't work out a way to react differently in the future?

[Menu]

So it's not a disease or condition then? Just a natural reaction? Would be nice if we addressed the root causes like poverty and economic injustice and shit services instead of throwing therapy and pills at it but that's just me.

In my limited experience, therapy isn't really meant to be about dealing with the cause though. It's more about training yourself in how to react when particular situations arise. Or maybe that's just CBT I dunno.

[bgmnts]

In my limited experience, therapy isn't really meant to be about dealing with the cause though. It's more about training yourself in how to react when particular situations arise. Or maybe that's just CBT I dunno.

Exactly. But it would surely be better to cure the root causes rather than just firefighting no?

Would a reaction being the 'natural' one imply either that's the right one or a preferable one?

Or that you can't work out a way to react differently in the future?

I don't think it's right nor preferable, just the natural way to deal with it. If you see or experience some form of suffering, and possess empathy, you will react to it negatively no?

[Menu]

Exactly. But it would surely be better to cure the root causes rather than just firefighting no?

Of course but in the meantime it's helpful for people to have strategies to cope.

[Glebe]

Sorry to hear it's not been so good for you. It's really hard to get the balance right, I find.

I'm not suggesting it hasn't been beneficial built there have been times when I've come out feeling worse than when I went in though to be fair unravelling tough psychology/emotional stuff will take its toll at times.

[Zetetic]

Exactly. But it would surely be better to cure the root causes rather than just firefighting no?
... I don't think it's right nor preferable, just the natural way to deal with it.

I think 1) it's generally more pleasant, for you and those around you, not to be on fire, and 2) you have more of a chance of 'curing root causes' when you're not on fire. (This is not to pretend that it's ever easy even then, or that there isn't a discussion to be had - but probably not in this thread - about why our governments take the positions they do on this.)

I recognise that 'being on fire' is the 'natural' response to being surrounded by fire, but I'm not sure why this is very interesting if you're on fire.

This thread is broadly, to continue this metaphor, about trying to be not on fire.

[I.D. Smith]

Er yeah, so that's that. Do any of you have this problem and how did you get around it? There must be a way. What are you supposed to do?

I don't have any advice unfortunately, but I am glad you started this thread as this is something I've went through myself to a degree. A number of years ago while going through a bad patch, the doctors referred me to a mental health unit for a CBT course. The woman there was very nice but from the very first session I clammed up, feeling like I didn't want to offload everything too soon. It's the same feeling I get when I want to talk to a friend or family member: like I'm being a pain, or overdramatic, or giving them too much to deal with. Then when the first session ended and I was given homework (as others in the thread have mentioned) I felt like mentally I slipped into some teacher-pupil role, as if I was being tested and therefore I didn't want to let my "teacher" down. And like others have said, and much like I used to do at school, each week I'd leave the homework to the last minute. At the start of the next session she'd get her wee tablet put and ask me how I felt that week, and I'd fudge the answers to make it look like I was improved from the week before in order to "please" my therapist.

I felt quite guilty after each session too, as I felt I was taking the space of someone else who could use the sessions more constructively and that's when the old martyrdom kicked in and I wangled it so I "completed" the course as quick as I could, get discharged sharpish, in order to make room for someone else, despite the fact I still felt pretty horrible. It all feels so stupid written down, and a waste of resources, so apologies in advance!

[canadagoose]

I don't have any advice unfortunately, but I am glad you started this thread as this is something I've went through myself to a degree. A number of years ago while going through a bad patch, the doctors referred me to a mental health unit for a CBT course. The woman there was very nice but from the very first session I clammed up, feeling like I didn't want to offload everything too soon. It's the same feeling I get when I want to talk to a friend or family member: like I'm being a pain, or overdramatic, or giving them too much to deal with. Then when the first session ended and I was given homework (as others in the thread have mentioned) I felt like mentally I slipped into some teacher-pupil role, as if I was being tested and therefore I didn't want to let my "teacher" down. And like others have said, and much like I used to do at school, each week I'd leave the homework to the last minute. At the start of the next session she'd get her wee tablet put and ask me how I felt that week, and I'd fudge the answers to make it look like I was improved from the week before in order to "please" my therapist.

I felt quite guilty after each session too, as I felt I was taking the space of someone else who could use the sessions more constructively and that's when the old martyrdom kicked in and I wangled it so I "completed" the course as quick as I could, get discharged sharpish, in order to make room for someone else, despite the fact I still felt pretty horrible. It all feels so stupid written down, and a waste of resources, so apologies in advance!

That sounds exactly like what I would do. It's rubbish being like this, isn't it?