PC gaming

[Shit Good Nose]

After a LONG lay-off (over 10 years) I'm seriously considering getting back into PC gaming, but reading around it would appear the gaming world has changed significantly since I was killing nazis in Company Of Heroes and levelling my well established county in Sim City 4. 

I'm mainly into strategy and city/world building games and it seems that most, if not all PC games in those categories since then cannot be played "off-line".  Am I understanding that right?  I have zero interest in playing with multiple strangers (fnarr) and don't really like the idea of having to play the game on-line even if I'm just playing against the PC.

Please educate an out-of-time dumbass.

[brat-sampson]

Pick up Crusader Kings 3 (or play it via PC Game Pass)

Done.

[Shit Good Nose]

Okay thanks, and I'm a big fan of the first Crusader Kings, but that doesn't really answer my question...

[Zetetic]

I'm mainly into strategy and city/world building games and it seems that most, if not all PC games in those categories since then cannot be played "off-line".  Am I understanding that right?

Off the top of my head, from more city-build-y to strategy-y, a smattering of vaguely recent (well, last 5 years) games that scratch some sort of itch, that can all be played offline:

Cities: Skylines
Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic
Tropico 6

Kingdoms and Castles
Civilization 6
Crusader Kings 3

RimWorld

Shadow Empire

Highfleet

XCOM2: WotC

(Bold games are more interesting, if not necessarily more fun. I think all of the above are fairly accessible though - for playing if not winning...)

(I'll admit there's one or two there which might have a couple of issues with starting-up offline for stupid reasons, but you're still not playing online.)

[Shit Good Nose]

Thanks Z.  I didn't realise Civ was up to 6 now! 

I'd probs leave Tropico - always thought that series was a bit toilet.

So is my understanding correct then that most games generally can only be played online/whilst online now?

[Zetetic]

No - like I say, those can all be played offline.

A few of them have "features" that integrate into online stuff, and they've sometimes (mostly out laziness I suspect, and the reasonable assumption these days that anyone installing a game will have decent internet access) had issues launching when offline - but they're then not dependent on internet traffic to play. I think most of those launching issues have been solved.

I'd probs leave Tropico - always thought that series was a bit toilet.

3 onwards are all bad works of art, alas, and very shallow games, I must admit.

[Zetetic]

Thanks Z.  I didn't realise Civ was up to 6 now!

Probably worth noting that different people have very different feelings about the attempts to refresh some of the mechanics of Civ in different versions (as opposed to just remaking the same game over and over again), and the usual difficulty of getting the AI to play interestingly with mechanics of any complexity.

[brat-sampson]

Thanks Z.  I didn't realise Civ was up to 6 now! 

I'd probs leave Tropico - always thought that series was a bit toilet.

So is my understanding correct then that most games generally can only be played online/whilst online now?

I think it's a complete mixture. There are plenty of multiplayer-focused games, or single-player ones, both that do/don't require an online connection. I wouldn't say 'most' do, and when they do it's usually just some kind of authentication/anti-cheat kind of thing. They're not constantly using bandwidth or hosting your game on a server.

[Shit Good Nose]

No - like I say, those can all be played offline.

But that's a very small amount of what is actually available.  There are LOADS of games I really like the look of, but (again, IF I'm understanding it correctly) most of them you can only play if you're logged on to Steam or similar.  There are also one or two (I forget exactly which ones now, but I liked the look of them) that you can only play as online multiplayer versions.  Appreciate that's the fashion these days, but it's really not my bag at all.

Probably worth noting that different people have very different feelings about the attempts to refresh some of the mechanics of Civ in different versions (as opposed to just remaking the same game over and over again), and the usual difficulty of getting the AI to play interestingly with mechanics of any complexity.

I've got them (and loved them) all up to 4, although I never bothered getting versions of 1 and 2 that would work on on newer versions of Windows.  Mind you, after playing 3 and 4 I never even considered going back to 1 and 2.

[Zetetic]

But that's a very small amount of what is actually available.  There are LOADS of games I really like the look of, but (again, IF I'm understanding it correctly) most of them you can only play if you're logged on to Steam or similar.

You can put Steam into offline mode, once you've installed a game. (I cannot remember the last time I tried, of course. I think Aden might have been in office?)

[Shit Good Nose]

They're not constantly using bandwidth or hosting your game on a server.

You can put Steam into offline mode, once you've installed a game. (I cannot remember the last time I tried, of course. I think Aden might have been in office?)

Thanks.  That's where I might be misunderstanding, bearing in mind the last time I was gaming you still put a physical disc in an optical drive...


Which has got me thinking about something else - so let's say you can now ONLY buy a game from Steam and can only play it if you're logged in.  What if Steam goes down the shitter (unlikely I know, but stranger things have happened) or they lose the license to host the game?  Presumably you don't actually own the game in those circumstances?

[Zetetic]

A lot of games won't bother implementing the Steamworks stuff to check if you're logged in - if you've got a copy of the game downloaded, it will often work whether or not you're logged in (or in Steam's offline mode).

Some of this probably depends on what sort of games you're looking to buy - bigger companies tend to be arbitrarily cuntier. Practically I'd be worried about all sorts of other issues ahead Steam going under - other phone-home things breaking, other dogshit anti-cracking or anti-cheating mechanisms breaking because they're built around brittle low-level undocumented bits of Windows.

or they lose the license to host the game

Don't think this is generally possible, given the terms they require - they can lose the licence to sell new copies of course.

The discussions around all this since 2004 have mostly come down to:
- Hopefully Valve will have enough time and incentive to ensure that everyone is able to make offline-useable copies of their games.
- You'll be able to torrent cracked versions anyway (which, depending on the timescales we're talking about, will probably also have to include unofficial patches so the games work on Windows [20]98 European-Superstate-Antitrust-Compliant-Version anyway)

[Zetetic]

One option is - only buy games from GoG or - better yet, although you'll generally be limited to games from smaller producers - Itch.io .

[Shit Good Nose]

Thanks Z. 

So my concerns aren't totally unfounded, albeit perhaps concerned about the wrong things.

I did wonder if cracked games were (generally) still an option, but I remember a couple of the last games that had come out around the time I stopped (I think whichever versions of Settlers, Anno and Total War were out at the time) were "impossible" to crack.  Appreciate something is always impossible to crack until someone actually does it and that has always been the case (I can remember right back to Monkey Island 2 on the Amiga being so-say uncrackable, but once someone managed it all you needed to do was photocopy both layers of the code wheel and it was piss easy after that).

Completely forgot about GoG, but having looked I now remember that loads of my favourites simply aren't available on there.

[Pink Gregory]

Have a look at Big Pharma and Megaquarium (same developer) for something a little different yet familiar.

Prison Architect

Banished

Before We Leave

Endless Space/Legend

Quite a lot out there with a bit more of a settlers-y vibe, which I can't give you examples of but a lot of the are Kickstarter projects

[Zetetic]

So my concerns aren't totally unfounded

No, not at all really.

It is a slightly weird feeling to be having these discussions again, because it's something that I've just ... fully accepted after 18 years, for all sorts of reasons. Part of that acceptance is not being a teenager for whom £20 was an huge amount of money to possibly maybe 'lose', part of it is the disappearance Steam becoming unimaginable, part of it is piracy becoming so accessible, part of it is the games that I'd worry most about 'losing' these days being entirely DRM-free.

It's interesting to be made to take these things more seriously again.

[Pink Gregory]

I've taken a much less hardline stance on it since. 

I try to buy off Steam if I can, but I've accepted it for £10 and under games that I'll probably one-and-done (Doom 2016) and for games from - especially Japanese - publishers that I know aren't doing DRM free anytime soon (Square Enix, Sega, Capcom etc).

Bethesda were fairly good at making stuff available on GoG; Doom/Quake, Arkane games (no Deathloop yet), Tango Gameworks (Evil Within series), not sure about Machine Games - but this could be up in thr air now that they're under Microsoft

[beanheadmcginty]

It's worth signing up for an Epic Games account immediately, even if you haven't got your gaming PC yet. They give you a free game every Thursday and you don't need to download it, just add it to your account's library for later. I've got dozens of the fuckers now, some really good ones (e.g. GTA V, Hitman, Control, Alien Isolation).

[Pink Gregory]

I would really love to see the entire new Hitman trilogy tidied up as a complete package (because the individual games are actually quite hard to buy), DRM free.  Would happily wait a few more years for it even.  But I don't think it'll happen.

[Shit Good Nose]

It's worth signing up for an Epic Games account immediately, even if you haven't got your gaming PC yet. They give you a free game every Thursday and you don't need to download it, just add it to your account's library for later. I've got dozens of the fuckers now, some really good ones (e.g. GTA V, Hitman, Control, Alien Isolation).

Thanks for the tip.  There's a few favourites on there.  Is the free game whatever they offer on the day, or can you pick and choose?

The funny thing is I already have a half-decent gaming laptop, which I originally bought for working from home.  They contributed 25% AND I could get it tax free through salary sacrifice, so I thought I may as well push for something in the higher-price bracket and, at the time, the fact that it was a gaming laptop wasn't really a consideration as I wasn't looking to get back into it right then.  It's not a top-end pure gaming laptop and it's now a couple of years old, but it's still more than sufficient for every single newer game I've looked at.

[beanheadmcginty]

Thanks for the tip.  There's a few favourites on there.  Is the free game whatever they offer on the day, or can you pick and choose?

It's whatever they offer. It goes up on Thursday evening and then you have the whole week to claim it. A lot of weeks it'll be some indie thing that I will never even look at, but I still claim it anyway.

[JamesTC]

If you want to quickly built up a collection with highly rated games for cheap (and give some money to charity for Ukraine) then Humble Bundle have an amazing bundle running for the next week. Loads of strategy games in there.

The way Humble works is you create an account and buy the bundle and the keys are then on your account. You can then redeem them on whichever store they are for. Most of the keys are for Steam with the odd exception (which are clearly highlighted on the redemption page).

[touchingcloth]

Don't think this is generally possible, given the terms they require - they can lose the licence to sell new copies of course.

Obsolescence is a bigger problem than licence issues in my experience. I've bought games for iOS that no longer work because they were never updated to work with newer versions of iOS (which has its own issues with obsolescence anyway), or because they were pulled from the App Store (I think this might have been clamped down on since, but some games had v1 pulled when v2 was released, with no rights of upgrade given to v1 purchasers).

[Zetetic]

Yeah, that's what I was gesturing at with

(which, depending on the timescales we're talking about, will probably also have to include unofficial patches so the games work on Windows [20]98 European-Superstate-Antitrust-Compliant-Version anyway)

Noting Gran Turismo 7 and all that; hilarious.

[Zetetic]

Increasingly hilarious:
https://www.pastemagazine.com/games/gran-turismo-7-microtransactions/

[Neomod]

Might as well stick this query in here. Mrs Neomod is away for the weekend and so I've installed a new graphics card and bought a steering wheel in order to spend Saturday night playing Euro Truck Simulator 2.

Now I've joined steam but looking at the various prices online, the relatively cheap price of £14.99 seems to be pricey compared to game/steam key prices.

How come they are so different in price and what's a bona fide site I could buy one from? 

The only games I played previously on PC was Ace of Spades and the CAB Minecraft server so I am a newcomer.

[JamesTC]

Publishers can produce Steam keys for free and sell them to various websites. There are verified sellers and then the grey market key sellers. I've never had a problem buying from the grey market other than a key not working which gets refunded. The only other thing to be aware of with the grey market is some sites have purchase protection which is automatically switched on but that is useless and you should always switch it off. It is called the grey market because the source of the key is unknown.

I track games using GG.deals. It seems for Euro Truck Simulator 2, the best option is Kinguin (Instant Gaming doesn't include VAT). It says £4.56 for Kinguin on there but I tend to find they estimate a few pence too low. Remember to add the coupon at the checkout too. Also the Gold edition is only 50p more on Kinguin which includes a DLC.

Once you get the key, you add it here on Steam:



For years, I just listened to people online to stay away from the grey market but I'm sad I did as I have gotten some absolute bargains on there.

[Neomod]

Cheers JamesTC. Just bought it from Instant Gaming and downloading it off Steam now.

Cost £6 but was playing safe as IG had the least 'risks' against it.

Oh and got American Truck simulator for £3.77 for good measure.

edit. Is there a way to save games in steam not on the desktop?

[JamesTC]

edit. Is there a way to save games in steam not on the desktop?

Do you mean the save file or the game itself in order to start it? I assume you mean the game itself.

The game itself is not actually on the desktop, that is just a shortcut link to the actual game, which will likely be saved on your C drive. If you go to the Library on Steam, you should see your games show up on the left as either grey or white. The grey are not installed on the PC, the white are installed. Click on the white and the game page will come up which will allow you to launch the game by clicking the Play button. You can delete the shortcut on the desktop as you can just launch through Steam.

Screenshot of an installed game on Steam:


The actual game files themselves are saved here:


EDIT: The save games are held within these game files. Though with Steam, they are also synced with the cloud as a backup. I don't think every game has cloud saves but most should, I would think.

[Neomod]

Thanks. Apparently they are rungameid files. Will I have problems if I move them to a folder?