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The big CaB Doctor Who (2005) rewatch thread - starts May 30, 2022

Started by Mister Six, May 24, 2022, 03:30:33 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

BritishHobo

Not sure I've ever seen somebody say the Slitheen look like RTD before. Seems harsh!

Replies From View

They missed a trick not having Colin Baker as one of the skin suits.

daf


Radio Times (16 April 2005)  |  Health Service Journal (5 May 2005)

BritishHobo

Speaking of the Royal Infirmary...

There are more local locations this week: the Doctor and Rose's drive to Number 10 was filmed on Lloyd George Avenue and Bute Street, although the tinted windows of their limo mean it's not a particularly exciting location to compare. The Cabinet Office was filmed at Hensol Castle, but this is another location that is now a wedding venue (in fact it had been bought for this intention not very long before filming began, after centuries of ownership by various aristocratic families, and spending the 20th century as a hospital), meaning inaccessibility again. I've had to go for pictures off the website:





It's possible if this continues that I'll have to propose to my partner in order to start gaining access to these locations under the guise of venue-hunting. We'll see this room again in The Sound of Drums, so maybe.

Thank GOD then for the Royal Infirmary, which is both walking distance and was filmed for exterior shots, and according to daf's Health Service Journal article I can just reuse for the week of The Empty Child.





Imagine a little piggy-man running around in there, and then being shot by a soldier. Doesn't bear thinking about.

Replies From View

Imagine it saying ARBEIT MACHT FREI above that gate there.  If it wasn't for the C in CARDIFF you'd start getting your hopes up.

Malcy

'The Wedding Of Sarah Jane Smith' for the first location too?

Mister Six

Time heals all wounds. Or maybe it just allows for even greater injuries that make the old ones look like papercuts. Regardless, the stuff that horrified me about this episode back when it aired - the farting, of course, the cheap-looking animatronic pig, the CBeebies overacting from the Slitheen lot, Mickey's dismal collision with the metal sheeting - barely touched me this time around, and I was able to fully enjoy all the stuff that the story gets right: the way it takes time travel's effects on the companion and their lives seriously and relatively thoughtfully; the development of Mickey and Jackie into properly realised human beings; the Iraq War satire (although that comes more heavily in the next episode); the very RTD approach to mankind's first contact with aliens (people complaining that the army has shut down roads in central London, the pissed up house parties turning to paranoid beatings in the street); that overblown, multi-pronged cliffhanger, which I love despite the complaints on here.

Still, though. The farts. The overacting. The general whiff of cheapness. It's all there, even if it doesn't bother me any more. And the "LOL FATTY" stuff bothers me even more now than it used to, especially considering the impressionable young idiots that are the target audience for this show. That "gay" comment is still a bit off too, as much as it grounded the episode in reality at the time.

(Shout out to the gag about the general having "a wife, a mistress and a young farmer" - I know Moffat had loads of bawdy humour in his series, but the Carry On atmosphere made it oddly asexual. People in RTD-world, on the other hand, are absolutely fucking left, right and centre. Probably at the same time, in some cases. See also Mickey telling Rose to "get in the bedroom" in the first episode. It's a very nice casual acknowledgement that, yes, sex exists, even in the universe of this kids' show. And, weirdly, is a million times more grown up than Torchwood's COR, WE CAN SAY FUCK NOW teenage prurience.)

A few other thoughts:

* I like the bunch of oddballs that turns up in Jackie's flat, not just the angry Asian lady but also the random goth girl at the back in a couple of scenes, who looks a bit out of place among everyone else. I wonder whether he was toying with building up a little cast of characters on the Powell Estate, but ditched it as he went along.

* There are some oddly flat performances here and there, most notably Jackie when she's reacting to (IIRC) being told off for not telling Mickey that Rose was back. Maybe a result of the punishingly tough schedules, and the early shoots ending up running late?

* I love, love, love the very OTT lighting that's all over this first series - most obvious in this episode when Tosh is in the hospital at night, and it's lit like a midbudget 1980s thriller (something I heartily endorse). They're also going apeshit with the lighting gels in the TARDIS scenes. I suppose it might make things look a bit cheap or unrealistic, but I find it charming and moody in its own way. I don't recall the lighting being remotely interesting again after this first series ended until Capaldi's second season. I hope I'm wrong.

OK, so the farts and that didn't bother me that much this time around, but they were there, so I'm going to have to give this a mildly disappointing 6/10.


Mister Six

Just reposting daf's scoring images. I'll put them on the first page if we make it to these 2 (which I hope we will! C'mon, folks!)

The NINTH DOCTOR Ratings

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The TENTH DOCTOR ratings

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Mister Six

Chatter is now open for:

World War Three
First aired April 23, 2005
The Slitheen have infiltrated Parliament and have the Doctor and his friends trapped as the Doctor works to prevent them from starting World War Three.

The new series' first two-parter wraps up - but was it a world war or a world bore?

daf

5 | "World War Three"



It's Super-farty-raxa-cori-expi-fallapatorius
Even though the sound of it
Is something quite atrorius
If you say it loud enough
You'll always sound precorius
Super-farty-raxa-cori-expi-fallapatorius!


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Highlights
• Execution Escape Elevator
• The "Pass The Port to the Left" Sketch
• The "Narrows It Down" Sketch
• Calcium Fart Analysis
• Raxacoricofallapatorius!
• Death By Pickled Onion
• Harriet Jones Future PM for Flydale North
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other Bits :
• Sonic #1 : Doorknobbled
• Bomb-proof Box
• Sonic #2 : Triplicate Booze Bomb
• Mickey's Awkward Jackie Hug
• And Introducing Andrew Marr as "Himself"
• Speculative Grass & Safety-pin Nosh-up
• Back In Ten Seconds
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

3/10

Alberon

More than ever this is a game of two halves. Again RTD is taking the show into areas that it never has before with Rose's relationship with her mother and the latter's very justified worries about safety.

A lot of the rest of the show is as tonally wonky as before. This episode the Slitheen seem to largely replace farting with repeated desires to get naked. The explanation is given that larger humans are needed for the suits to work at all, but it still is a poor misstep from RTD.

It's a nice touch that Slitheen is a family name rather than a species name, though whatever you call them they are still carry on as if they're in a pantomime. The Doctor bullshitting with triplicating the flamabillity of the booze works well, he's done similar often before, but it's nice the Slitheen see through it.

The episode is quite confined in its locations and The Doctor and Rose only leave Number 10 after it's been blown up. I'd forgotten all three cliffhangers just have the one resolution. When Micky and Jackie throw the vinegar concoction at the Slitheen I thought they were initially just going to have the alien look at itself and go "What did you do that for?" but then it explodes.

The whole business with the UK needing UN authorisation to access it's nuclear weapons always felt a bit weak and seems an example of RTD writing himself into a corner when needing to keep the Slitheen away from the atomic bombs when they had already taken over the government.

The Massive Weapons of Destruction bit is, of course, as subtle as a brick in the face, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Mickey accesses a website to fire a cruise missile at Number 10. There was a webpage up at the time you could access with the Buffalo password. There were several such pages around for this series. I wonder if they're still around. Clive's website from episode 1 is still, at least partly, up.

Harriet Jones is again largely there as a joke, though she does rise to the occasion. For me though, that's all tainted by knowing what comes later.

The CGI Slitheen running through the corridors actually stands up quite well. It's just a shame they were written and/or directed as too cartoony, though I did like the final "Oh, boll-" exclamation before being exploded.

So there are some good character moments, but the actual storyline and aliens don't work any better than last week.

5/10

BritishHobo

The first proper stinker of the series for me. I appreciate what they have to do in terms of budget, but it feels like this struggles to build on what the first episode sets up. Despite the dramatic nature of the story - Earth getting ready for war with aliens - you don't really get a sense of the scale. Later on RTD does really well at showing global reactions to these situations, but here we just have an empty London bridge. Too much time instead is given, as above, to the Slitheen repeatedly going in and out of their human suits, which the first episode had established well enough already. I don't think we needed any more shots of them theatrically unzipping the heads. We get it now. And all best to the actors, but it feels very much that they've been directed in a way straight out of a not-so-good kid's TV show. I agree though that the Slitheen actually do look pretty scary in action, ferocious bipedal run raising the threat level a bit. But that's as scary as they get, and everything after that feels a bit listless. Trapping our gang in a separate room means there isn't a lot of tension, just time-filling until the solution is found.

While the developing story of how Rose's adventure affects her family is done well, the Doctor's treatment of Mickey is really becoming bizarre. I know he's meant to be jaded from the Time War, but why is the Doctor the sort of prick that deliberately gets someone's name wrong to put them down, and calls them shitty nicknames like Mickey the Idiot? That's school bully behaviour, very un-Doctor-ish. There is at least some small redemption in the Doctor and Rose finally inviting him along, although his refusal now conveniently gives them the moral high ground, while still positioning him as a coward. And, after a year of being treated as main suspect in Rose's murder, Mickey has now been left behind as the bloke whose computer can be traced as the one which hacked the Royal Navy servers and bombed Number 10. For no justifiable reason, either, as the alien invasion is reportedly a hoax. Best of luck, Mickey.

That said, I do enjoy the family dynamic of it. There is something compelling in the Doctor's coldness at the end; he's very callous in shutting down Rose's desire to have him get to know her mum, and in tempting her away again immediately, despite knowing how torn up this has all made Jackie. I've never quite appreciated before how well RTD digs down into the real effect on your life of travelling with the Doctor. He has a real talent for writing imperfect people who make selfish choices. Maybe it's an odd vehicle for this, but it's great writing. The final shot of Jackie counting ten seconds and walking away is brilliant. Leaving poor Mickey sat on a bin waiting for MI5 to turn up and bundle him into a van.

Harriet Jones the saving grace as always, although I agree again that that final line doesn't have quite so much of a thrill knowing what happens. The Doctor gets some nice momemts, notably his appropriately steely glare at Margaret the Slitheen. But again, they feel too unthreatening for him to really have much to play against. Perhaps that's intentional; he's faced something very silly, so it's going to be even more intense to see him face a Dalek next week. As it's own episode though, and a pay-off to the stakes raised last episode, it just falls a  bit flat.

2/10

Replies From View

I wonder whether they quite knew how rubbery the Slitheen costumes would ultimately look.  There's such a sharp contrast between them and the CGI versions that I can't help feel they thought the practical costumes would hold themselves differently.  Especially as we absolutely know they were fighting strongly against "cardboardy monsters / wobbly sets" preconceptions at this time.

Alberon

It's probably more the limitations of the CGI. They've been animated quite well, but there probably wasn't the time or money to improve the textures or the model.



It does look quite different to the rubber suit. I can't shake the image of a dick with a face in that photo.

Replies From View

Unless I am mistaken the CGI was limited to wide shots of the entire creature running and close-ups of the human suit being shed.

My suspicion is that at the design stage it all seemed to fit together, with a bit of an influence from the HR Giger xenomorph in the long head, but when it came to the practical costume this long heavy head ended up sagging and lolling far more than anticipated by the CGI team, and the latex arms had the same lack of articulation/control as boglins' arms.

I haven't seen all of Torchwood so the penis with a face reference eludes me.  By the time he returned to Doctor Who he was massive and filled a jar.

Thomas

Loving all this in-depth retrospection.

Quote from: Mister Six on June 25, 2022, 11:30:26 PMI don't recall the lighting being remotely interesting again after this first series ended until Capaldi's second season. I hope I'm wrong.

The Toby Haynes-directed episodes during Matt Smith's run look gorgeous in general - I think the lighting is notable there. The Underhenge is wonderfully gloomy, and the outdoor lighting is good without feeling artificial (a problem in series 4, if I remember rightly. Huge massive walls of WHITE LIGHT during outdoor night scenes). Lots of golden atmosphere and shadow.

Similarly, this scene from The Eleventh Hour looks lovely, in part due to the way the TARDIS and its environs are lit (I always liked the glowing phone panel) -




Mister Six

As with Aliens of London, the neurons that were bothered by the fat jokes and farting and all that on transmission have long since burned out, so I was able to watch World War Three a bit more dispassionately than I did 17 years ago. Even then, much of this climax doesn't stand up great, especially in the first half, which bounces from contrivance (the electricity zapping all of the Slitheen right across London) to coincidence (the elevator happening to arrive just when The Doctor needed it) to convenience (the Slitheen completely failing to catch Rose and Harriet even though they're clearly just a split second away from grabbing them - and increasing in speed - at the end of each shot).

Boak's to blame for much of this. The bit screencapped above where Rose and Harriet "run" across the screen away from a rampaging Slitheen is a perfect example - they're both doing a ridiculous, doddery faux-run, like you'd do if you were in a panto on a particularly small stage, when there's no reason for them not to dash right across the screen ahead of the frighteningly swift CGI alien. The lift bit might have worked if Eccles had been directed to fiddle with his sonic screwdriver behind his back before the doors opened, or the lift arrived just a little sooner. Or Eccles was just a bit better at prevaricating; I could see Matt pulling this off a lot more comfortably and naturalistically. Again, that's something the director should have caught.

To be fair, though, RTD can also take the blame for some of this. In The Writer's Tale, he talks about how important it is to think visually when writing, particularly when the camera is forced to hold on a static image for too long. Maybe that's a lesson he learned from this series, because there are too many moments where everything stops for a very awkward, tension-deflating comedy bit. Like the "pass it to the left" scene. Why aren't the Slitheen just jumping in the room and murdering everyone? Why wait for The Doctor to finish his little comedy bit? That should have been cut or more carefully staged before the actors were even on set.

Still, once you're past the naff action scenes and flaccid confronations, things pick up a lot. I loved all of the chattering between the two teams, and particularly the opportunities for Jackie to open up emotionally and Mickey to actually prove himself smart and capable. Harriet's also an amusing character - I loved her "You're a very violent young woman" remark. Wonderful performance, too.

(Are we to assume that Rose has been on more adventures between Unquiet Dead and Aliens of London, by the way? Her comment about getting used to death and... something else, I forget what, make it sound like she's seen more than just Platform 5 and Cardiff, which between them would have taken about eight or nine hours, albeit quite eventful hours.)

Speaking of wonderful performances, there are some woeful turns here: Eccles inanely grinning during the elevator sequence, Camille Coduri having a few more flat lines, like last week (same exhausting week of shooting?), and Noel Clark's on-and-off performance, which alternates between stilted, awkward delivery and some really nice moments (like him pointing to Jackie when he's on the phone to Rose - a really nice bit of comic timing that almost gets lost in the cut). Again, I'm blaming Boak unless they both continue to be wonky, but my memory is that they're both a lot better in future episodes.

So yeah, a bit of a mixed bag, trending towards disappointing. Add to that the unnecessary meanness to Mickey (which really diminishes The Doctor as a character, I think, whether it's just random rudeness or getting defensive over Rose's relationship with him) and it's mostly a swing and a miss for me. 4/10



Mister Six

Quote from: Thomas on June 27, 2022, 12:00:25 PMThe Toby Haynes-directed episodes during Matt Smith's run look gorgeous in general - I think the lighting is notable there. The Underhenge is wonderfully gloomy, and the outdoor lighting is good without feeling artificial (a problem in series 4, if I remember rightly. Huge massive walls of WHITE LIGHT during outdoor night scenes). Lots of golden atmosphere and shadow.

Similarly, this scene from The Eleventh Hour looks lovely, in part due to the way the TARDIS and its environs are lit (I always liked the glowing phone panel) -



Yeah, I remember watching the opening shot of The Eleventh Hour, with the dolly shot across Amelia's darkened garden, and thinking that Doctor Who finally looked like a proper TV show, like what you get in That America.

That said, when I mean when I say "interesting" is actually the artificiality of the lighting, like we saw in the autopsy room scenes in Aliens of London, as captured not terribly well in this screengrab:



I rather like that sort of thing, and there'll be more examples as we go along, but let's not get ahead of ourselves...

Quote from: Replies From View on June 27, 2022, 11:41:53 AMMy suspicion is that at the design stage it all seemed to fit together, with a bit of an influence from the HR Giger xenomorph in the long head, but when it came to the practical costume this long heavy head ended up sagging and lolling far more than anticipated by the CGI team, and the latex arms had the same lack of articulation/control as boglins' arms.

Yeah, I reckon the same. It's a shame, because the idea of a weird, lumpy Gigeresque thing with a cute baby face (that itself has razor-sharp teeth) is a really cool one. Davies has a knack for strange and wonderful (and ambitious!) aliens that I've rather missed over the last few years of no-name actors with pen scribbles on their faces.

daf


The Stage (17 March 2005)  |  Daily Star (20 April 2005)

Thomas

Imagine having a friend who spoke in tabloid language.

'Very humid lately, innit?'
'Yes - boffins blame the soaring summer spell on climate chaos. But it's not quite as hot as the saucy sex scenes in steamy streaming sensation Bridgerton, which set tongues wagging and temperatures rising.'
'Not seen it. More excited about RTD coming back to Doctor Who.'
'Ah yeah - fresh off award-winning AIDS romp It's a Sin, gay telly writer Davies, 59, is set to thrill fans with returning characters like the evil Mox of Balloon. Exterminate!'

Replies From View

"You'll be relieved to know that some latex aliens were not modelled on popular girl band b*witched"

"Oh yeah phew"

daf


Radio Times (23 April 2005)  |  TV Magazine (23 April 2005)

BritishHobo

There is definitely a different feel to the Slitheen in that picture with the outstretched arms, compared to the (perfectly nailed by RfV) boglin-like pose at the bottom left. It's odd that the Slitheen emerge from the cramped human suits, and then still feel like they are squashed and weighed down. I think the scene where they're shot running across the room is so effective because it's the only time they aren't awkwardly shuffling around with their arms swinging like useless appendages.

Always find it slightly odd reading an article like that Noel Clarke one, knowing things will actually go south eventually.

Replies From View

"Actor Noel Clarke is the first to admit that he likes a bit of groping and whatever it was, getting his cock out or was that only Barrowman.  Probably a paedoph."

daf


daf


BritishHobo

I suppose I can't totally blame Jon Ericcson. Three out of five episodes have featured farting/burping monsters. And one of the others was about aliens feeding on gas. It's a more prominent running theme than Bad Wolf!

BritishHobo

The trouble with a two-parter is that, often, part two inevitably uses the same locations as part one. In this case Hensol Castle and some streets and estates in London. No fresh Cardiff locations used, so I went to visit Ianto's Shrine at Cardiff Bay instead and took a photo of a photo of Tosh:



It's the same story, it counts!

Mister Six

The shrine always baffles me, given that Owen was the most boring character in an incredibly shit show, but I appreciate the pics anyway. :)

H-O-W-L

Quote from: Mister Six on June 25, 2022, 11:30:26 PM* I love, love, love the very OTT lighting that's all over this first series - most obvious in this episode when Tosh is in the hospital at night, and it's lit like a midbudget 1980s thriller (something I heartily endorse). They're also going apeshit with the lighting gels in the TARDIS scenes. I suppose it might make things look a bit cheap or unrealistic, but I find it charming and moody in its own way. I don't recall the lighting being remotely interesting again after this first series ended until Capaldi's second season. I hope I'm wrong.

IMO Smith's first series had good lighting.