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The big CaB Doctor Who (2005) rewatch thread - starts May 30, 2022

Started by Mister Six, May 24, 2022, 03:30:33 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mister Six

With Chris Chibnall's era almost completely flushed away, let's waft away the stink and try to get excited for the incoming RTD2 epoch with a great big Doctor Who rewatch!

Every week we'll watch an episode of the 2005 Who run, starting with Rose and continuing chronologically, to remind us of all the joy and sadness and burping bins and unnecessary fart jokes that may lie ahead. The 60 RTD episodes (not including any of the spin-offs or minisodes) should take us more or less to November next year, and possibly beyond if there's enough interest to make it into the Moffat years.

I'll be doing it anyway, so it would be nice if you could all join in and stop me from looking like a complete nutter, just sat here typing to myself.

We'll start the discussion next week, on Monday May 30, so people have a bit of time to watch the episode, and each subsequent Monday we'll move on to the next episode, with The End of the World coming on Monday May 30.

So grab your knackered old DVD box sets and watch season one, episode one: Rose
"When ordinary shop-worker Rose Tyler meets a mysterious stranger called the Doctor she is drawn into his strange and dangerous world; her life will never be the same again."

See you next week for the discussion - and in the meantime, feel free to talk about RTD's Who in general. Are your memories of it good or bad? Are you expecting the rewatch to cast his show in a new light? And will all those pop culture references make it all feel realllly old-hat?

Endicott

What I remember about RTD's Who is that when it was good it was really good, but that quality was a bit up and down (though not down to Chibnal levels of awfulness). It started out very well though, and I really liked Eccleston as The Doctor. It was a disappointment when he left. Top 3 from S1 for me, Rose, Dalek, The Empty Child 2 parter.

Replies From View

My retrospective views are different, but I do remember at the time being quite ambivalent about RTD's tenure from the start.  I felt it was too fast-paced and bombastic, and despite being a big fan of Pertwee's first three Earth-bound seasons, I was getting quite restless in RTD's first series for episodes less close to Earth.

Replies From View

This thread will probably make me feel sad about my crapness keeping my Laurel and Hardy watchalong going.  If anyone cares I do intend to recommence that at some point - I just find it hard sometimes to actually say things about short films that have so much in common with each other.

BritishHobo

I'm excited for this. I said this in the other thread but I've never watched series 1-3 in order, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it flows.

My biggest memory and the thing I'm going to be keeping in mind is I always felt there was a real nasty streak in his Who. The contempt with which Mickey was treated was the big thing. Ending episode 1 with him lying in trash while his girlfriend runs off without him and the Doctor sneers that he can't come? And then Boom Town where he comes running only to be treated as a spare part to Rose's fun travels with the Doctor and Jack. I felt similar about the contempt which Ten seemed to hold towards anyone who didn't fit his high morals. But I watched RTD's Queer as Folk, Cucumber and It's A Sin earlier this year, and I have a newfound appreciation for the way he writes people. Most of his characters are very flawed and capable of doing selfish things and acting terribly, and I can now see it's deliberate that he avoids the easy catharsis of having his characters always learn their lesson and express that they've been acting terribly. Most people aren't as flawless and self-aware as you hope from fictional protagonists. It's a realistic depiction of normal people, and I'm hoping to see if that improves my view of those moments in his era.

Replies From View

Yes, all of that was horrible.  I remember now how I felt about it at the time - the Doctor was being characterised as this desirable cool figure rather than an outsider, which I can understand but it also ran against how I'd identified with the Doctor in the past.  Suddenly the Doctor and his companion were these smug travellers:  goodbye boyfriend, you are not cool enough to be in our gang.

The way Rose left Mickey for the Doctor was unkind but it also made it quite clear - the Doctor was being characterised as a boyfriend, and I absolutely hated that.  An ideal boyfriend rather than a mad but comforting Doc Brown type.

Why was he so mean to Mickey but then allowed Adam to travel for one adventure in the middle of the series, with hints that Rose and Adam might find a romantic connection?

And the fact Rose had to be given a clone of the Doctor in the end, rather than reconnect with the also-growing Mickey sat incredibly badly with me.  As an allegory for childhood, it works really well for companions to outgrow the Doctor after a time, and find their own lives again away from him.  Leaving her with a Doctor clone made her out to be stunted by her travels, dependent on the Doctor.

Every Tennant companion showed a reaction to his Doctor as a potential boyfriend.  In Martha's case, it was unrequited.  In Donna's case, a big deal had to be made about her not fancying him, no siree, yuckity yuck.  It was still there as a theme and it was only with Moffat and the Doctor as childhood imaginary friend that a spin away from boyfriend could emerge.

BritishHobo

Yeah, I always found it interesting that he felt he had to over-emphasise it so much with Donna. Especially after reading The Writer's Tale and realising that his original idea for his series 4 companion Penny was... an ordinary woman from contemporary Britain who falls in love with the Doctor - and the Doctor reciprocates! Glad he didn't do that.

M-CORP

Quote from: BritishHobo on May 24, 2022, 10:39:52 AMI'm excited for this. I said this in the other thread but I've never watched series 1-3 in order, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it flows.

I watched series 1 for its 15th anniversary a couple of years back. First time I watched it from start to finish - missed it first time around as I didn't start watching till series 3, back then I got my synopsises from Doctor Who Adventures magazines, and first watched the stories around about 2010 I think?
Watching it as a whole series in 2020 really made me appreciate the overall plotting and arc, and now the two-part finale is one of my favourite ever stories as a result. And that's just series 1 - series 2 feels less cohesive, but series 3 builds up nicely to its finale. You'll be pleasantly surprised how things flow. Also interesting to see how different series 1 is to even the later RTD series - much darker compared to the more balanced romp of series 4, plus certain differences in the production (especially the music).

Thomas

Quote from: BritishHobo on May 24, 2022, 12:21:05 PMYeah, I always found it interesting that he felt he had to over-emphasise it so much with Donna. Especially after reading The Writer's Tale and realising that his original idea for his series 4 companion Penny was... an ordinary woman from contemporary Britain who falls in love with the Doctor - and the Doctor reciprocates! Glad he didn't do that.

I recall in The Writer's Tale that RTD (agreeably) characterises Moffat as quite a sexually motivated writer. Everyone's flirting and snogging and making allusions to erections and Watson is texting other women and Clara is there. But RTD himself isn't dissimilar - perhaps he just embraces an extra, dignifying layer of 'romance'.1

I also remember Russell talking about how he always fantasised about being the companion rather than the Doctor - we might read into Rose getting to take home a copy at the end of her journey as a bit of wish fulfilment.

2. that said, the most earnest and touching romantic moment in all of New Who must surely be the night on Darillium at the end of Husbands. That or the paving slab.

Mister Six

RTD also describes himself as being an incredibly horny, sexually motivated writer, and I think he expresses some kinship with Moffat in that regard.

I think Moffat is quite romantic too - Darilium, Bill going off with her space girlfriend (and Clara going off with HER space girlfriend), the Ponds dying to be with one another etc. He's just also steeped in bawdy 1970s comedies, and spent most of the 1990s writing their descendants, so that's where his mind tends to wander when he's searching for jokes.

daf

I've knocked up some ratings that could be used (based on similar ones used on Lemming's Star Trek TNG re-watch thread) :

1/10

- - - - - -
2/10

- - - - - -
3/10

- - - - - -
4/10

- - - - - -
5/10

- - - - - -
6/10

- - - - - -
7/10

- - - - - -
8/10

- - - - - -
9/10

- - - - - -
10/10


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And a few alternatives :

6/10

- - - - - -
8/10

- - - - - -
9/10

- - - - - -
10/10

Mister Six


daf

Glad you like them - had a hard time trying to work out what to use and their score. If anyone has any favourites I've missed (and the rating), let me know and I'll sort them out!

I did consider using both Tennant and Eccleston, but their placing was a problem - maybe I should do a 10/10 for both?

Kelvin

Quote from: daf on May 24, 2022, 07:22:59 PMI did consider using both Tennant and Eccleston, but their placing was a problem - maybe I should do a 10/10 for both?

Have you forgotten which Doctors they played :)

daf

Ha! no - that was my first thought, but it seemed a bit disrespectful to Eccleston.

Think I will knock up a 10/10 option for both - the Eccleston one can be used for season 1, and Tennant for the rest.

BritishHobo

Quote from: Thomas on May 24, 2022, 01:21:40 PMI recall in The Writer's Tale that RTD (agreeably) characterises Moffat as quite a sexually motivated writer. Everyone's flirting and snogging and making allusions to erections and Watson is texting other women and Clara is there. But RTD himself isn't dissimilar - perhaps he just embraces an extra, dignifying layer of 'romance'.1

I also remember Russell talking about how he always fantasised about being the companion rather than the Doctor - we might read into Rose getting to take home a copy at the end of her journey as a bit of wish fulfilment.

2. that said, the most earnest and touching romantic moment in all of New Who must surely be the night on Darillium at the end of Husbands. That or the paving slab.


Extra interesting that he then did the same thing in Torchwood, with Jack (and, to a lesser extent, Rapey Owen) as an exciting sexual figure to Gwen's companion character, with Rhys as the Mickey. Also that Moffat essentially replicated the exact same thing with Amy and Rory (making the subtext text by having Amy try to fuck Eleven the night before her wedding). I felt he also emulated the Martha/Donna situation a bit by having Clara fancy Eleven but then very explicitly establish she doesn't fancy Twelve and he isn't her boyfriend.

Midas

Quote from: BritishHobo on May 24, 2022, 10:39:52 AMMy biggest memory and the thing I'm going to be keeping in mind is I always felt there was a real nasty streak in his Who

On this point, recently I reinterpreted a particularly mean-spirited moment in the revived series - the "Don't you think she looks tired" scene in The Christmas Invasion - when the Doctor triumphantly gloats to Harriet Jones about how he "could bring down her government in just six words".

QuoteEccleston explained the circumstances surrounding his exit, saying: "I agreed with Russell that I would go, quietly and respectfully, and I would look after the show publicity-wise, in terms of publicising it.

"And then, without saying anything to me, they announced that I was leaving. They didn't tell me they were going to do that. I was walking down the street and suddenly I got quite a lot of aggression. And more importantly... they created a quote, and they attributed it to me, which said I was tired.

"Now the thing is about that, 'Oh I found it too tiring', I didn't find it too tiring. I found it too tiring working with Russell, and Phil and Julia. I didn't find it physically too tiring.

"When they said that, any other producer reading that would go 'Oh, we're not going to employ Christopher Eccleston because he gets tired'. So it was a lie, and it was in quotation marks, and I'm from Salford, you don't do that to me."

Mister Six

That's specifically referring to remarks made about Blair towards the end of his tenure, though.

And given that it ruins Britain's Golden Age and how sympathetically Jones was presented later on, I think it's supposed to be an early example of Ten's megalomania/arrogance.

Quote from: Midas on May 24, 2022, 10:31:13 PMOn this point, recently I reinterpreted a particularly mean-spirited moment in the revived series - the "Don't you think she looks tired" scene in The Christmas Invasion - when the Doctor triumphantly gloats to Harriet Jones about how he "could bring down her government in just six words".


That's most likely a reference to a comment supposedly made by one of Thatcher's aides prior to her finally getting ousted, not a dig at Eccleston.

Mister Six



Mister Six


Alberon

I've never had the energy to do a rewatch for anything else, but I will for this.

There's quite a few episodes after Eccleston's I've only seen in their entirety once so this should be interesting.

I've got the DVDs, of course, but is it all still on the iPlayer?

Malcy

Count me in. But can't guarantee consistency. I've been on a Pertwee rewatch for about a year with 90% of it consisting with a weeks binge. I'm close and should just finish but also have the Evil Of The Daleks animation since day of release and my brain doesn't allow one thing to be started without another. Off work next few days so will do my best.

Am I right in thinking it has stated as of yesterday? I loved the Eccleston era and have a lot to say that I've probably said before. Still would love to do it though.

JamesTC

I might rewatch the episodes that aren't shit.

Quote from: Malcy on May 25, 2022, 10:28:01 PMI've been on a Pertwee rewatch for about a year with 90% of it consisting with a weeks binge. I'm close and should just finish but also have the Evil Of The Daleks animation since day of release and my brain doesn't allow one thing to be started without another. Off work next few days so will do my best.

You're in for a treat when you get round to Evil. In my opinion, the second best animation behind The Moonbase.

Mister Six

Quote from: Malcy on May 25, 2022, 10:28:01 PMAm I right in thinking it has stated as of yesterday? I loved the Eccleston era and have a lot to say that I've probably said before. Still would love to do it though.

Basically conversation on each new episode begins Mondays, starting May 31 with Rose. That way everyone has a week to watch the next episode.

I'm in the US, five hours behind the UK, so I guess we'll say it's Monday morning *your time*, whoever *you* are, so I don't feel compelled to get up in the middle of the night and officially open up discussion.

If people turn up late and want to talk about an episode that's already been discussed, then I reckon that's fair enough, but try not to talk about episodes that the group hasn't yet reached. And obviously any conversations that are going when a new episode is opened up for discussion are welcome to continue as long as they need to.

GoblinAhFuckScary


Malcy

Quote from: JamesTC on May 25, 2022, 10:30:04 PMI might rewatch the episodes that aren't shit.

You're in for a treat when you get round to Evil. In my opinion, the second best animation behind The Moonbase.

Yeah been looking forward to it. I've only ever heard it on the cd release from a long, long time ago and really enjoyed it. It's an odd one as I can still picture it in my mind near 20 years later so will be interesting to see how it matches up with my imagination.

Attila

Looking forward to this thread!

I've been enjoying the ST TNG thread, and I like that this one will have the ratings system, too.

daf

Funny you should mention that - See over page - - - - - - - - - - - - - ->