Roe v. Wade is overturned

[Bernice]

But he, and Biden, could've codified Roe v Wade into law stopping this. Obama promised he would on the campaign trail, then got into office and said abortion rights weren't a priority for him. Biden also promised to do it, but didn't. Even when this got leaked weeks ago.

Who needs far right justices?

Well, quite. This has happened in the middle of a Democratic President's term with a Democrat-majority Congress. If you reduce this to a question of 'voting blue', you miss the real meat of what has made this possible and what will continue to fuck over the people of the US for the next decade at least unless the Dems realise what fight they're (nominally?) in. You can say that if the electorate had just consistently returned only Democrats then this wouldn't have happened and, yeah, that's factually correct, but it's also useless as a bit of analysis.

If the accusation is "people saying that they're both as bad as each other is what's bought us here", then you're also massively wide of the mark. They're not as bad as each other, and any argument that they are deserves short shrift. But if you want to understand this on a macro level you're better off leaving your assumptions and biases at the door and asking

a)How did the fundamentalist/originalist/supremacist right get to hold so much power, and

b)Why has the establishment centre/left continually proved itself so incapable of holding back the tide.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Is this a joke? You think life for women in the US is just as bad as in countries that practice Shari'a law?

Lad.

It's getting there.

They won't ban women from working (because that would ruin the myth of the Welfare Queen, popping out kids for delicious money) or forbid them to go out without a man or ban them from drinking alcohol (because they won't be able to blame rape on the victims). It won't get that bad. But making hormonal contraception difficult and then impossible to obtain, at least if you're poor, is next. And then kiss social welfare supports (the few that are left) for single mothers goodbye. See also what passes for maternity leave. Watch insurance companies treat pregnancy like a pre-existing condition. Watch every piece of shit God-botherer refuse to sell or treat anything to do with female reproduction and get away with it because religion. Watch as women who die from botched back-street abortions are blamed for their own deaths and slandered as immoral sluts. Watch as the father of the foetus completely disappears from the conversation, unless he's black or brown.

Just watch. It's happened before. It happened in this country decades ago and we still haven't put it behind us.

[Bernice]

Honestly, the notion that you'd see the biggest blow to come down on human rights within the US since fuck knows when after years of massively telegraphed (and massively successful) far right manoeuvring and immediately pile in on your straw man Bernie Bro is fucking insane to me. People with this exact view of American politics have enabled The Way Things Now Are infinitely more responsable than whatever left shitposter called you a bad name on Twitter.

I'm on the fence about comparisons to Saudi Arabia et al, because a) it smells a bit too much like the gotcha-first politics of international relations that leads to people cheering on Putin and b) it flattens the specific traits of the problem at hand. But, honestly, if you can't see echoes of Sharia bigotry in the misogynistic, homophobic, ethno-nationalist convictions of the faction that currently dominated the Supreme Court of the motherfucking United States then what do you even have eyes for?

[mjwilson]

Something that winds me up about the reaction to this is the "what rights will they take away next?" perspective, which I've already heard twice on the radio in the last hour. Not because that's not a very real concern - it obviously is - but because people almost act like the removal of key women's rights isn't an apocalyptically shit scenario on its own.

Justice Thomas specifically said that the next step should be to go after the right to contraception, and the rights of same-sex couples to have sex and get married.

[shoulders]

Can I shock you? I like foetuses, despite what I said earlier.

[QDRPHNC]

He certainly didn't appoint a bunch of far right justices to the SC, Trump did and Clinton wouldn't have

We have no idea what Clinton would have done, probably fuck all just like Obama and Biden.

What exactly has the American left gained by the last couple of decades of holding their noses and voting for the lesser of two evils?

[kittens]

starting to really love dumb centrists. adorably stupid. like how a bull dog is so ugly it becomes cute

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Ireland is more progressive than the States now. That's wild to me.

[machotrouts]

Abortion laws today... sodomy laws tomorrow... you can't cum in a pussy and you can't cum in a butthole?? The United States Is Systematically Biased Against Men

[Martin Van Buren Stan]

Honestly, the notion that you'd see the biggest blow to come down on human rights within the US since fuck knows when after years of massively telegraphed (and massively successful) far right manoeuvring and immediately pile in on your straw man Bernie Bro is fucking insane to me. People with this exact view of American politics have enabled The Way Things Now Are infinitely more responsable than whatever left shitposter called you a bad name on Twitter.

I'm on the fence about comparisons to Saudi Arabia et al, because a) it smells a bit too much like the gotcha-first politics of international relations that leads to people cheering on Putin and b) it flattens the specific traits of the problem at hand. But, honestly, if you can't see echoes of Sharia bigotry in the misogynistic, homophobic, ethno-nationalist convictions of the faction that currently dominated the Supreme Court of the motherfucking United States then what do you even have eyes for?

You can see *echos* but actually that they're coming from a million miles away and are not close to being the same.

Edit: just to be clear, in most countries with Shari'a law abortion is illegal in virtually all cases. Even with this hideous ruling by the court it's not the case in the USA

[Fabian Thomsett]

Wouldn't have happened if people just VOTED HARDER.

[Kankurette]

Is this a joke? You think life for women in the US is just as bad as in countries that practice Shari'a law?

Not yet, but give it time. I'm serious. There are Americans who looked at the Taliban and thought 'we need some of that'.

[Butchers Blind]

They'll stop you wanking next.

[Buelligan]

Already done mate.  That Stormy Daniels thing about mushrooms has ruined me forever.

[touchingcloth]

Some people have made the point that conservatives in America are obsessed with banning abortion because they are determined to exert control over women and their bodies.

I reckon they just love unborn babies, the dirty bollockses. Brett Kavanaugh is widely known to enjoy boofing them.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Boris Johnson has had the cheek to call this "a huge step backward" while in fucking Rwanda where his government wants to send asylum seekers.

[Noodle Lizard]

It's a horrible decision, and not something I believed would ever actually happen. I've seen some people online talking as if the US has banned abortion entirely, though, and thankfully that's not the case. It just means individual states can now ban (or at least heavily restrict) it in their own state - likely ones with a large anti-abortion majority to begin with. Other states like California, Michigan etc. have already put plans in motion to make abortion an inalienable right in their constitution, and I expect most of the blue states won't really change. So we can expect a lot of "abortion tourism" to the blue states, which is a ridiculous state of affairs, and not necessarily feasible for those who need it the most.

I imagine secession will be a big talking point in the next decade or so - either from individual states or entire pockets of the country. It's probably not a bad idea, in many ways, provided people can jump ship easily enough.

[JaDanketies]

Can I shock you? I like foetuses, despite what I said earlier.

I only like foetuses if the parent wants to take it to term. Otherwise I hate that fuckin foetus so bad

Proper want to go over to America and shout at someone

[Urinal Cake]

Fucking Democrats and Republicans have both used abortion as a lever to fundraise, get votes etc. Now the Republicans have finally pulled the lever and are going for gay marriage, contraception etc next.

Now anti-abortion advocates around the world will be going on overdrive.

[Noodle Lizard]

Some people have made the point that conservatives in America are obsessed with banning abortion because they are determined to exert control over women and their bodies.

I might be being incredibly generous here, but I don't think that's always the case. From my experience with pro-lifers, it's almost always far more to do with Christianity or other religious beliefs, and other ideas descended thereof about societal decline etc. Anti-abortion people really do believe it's a form of murder, and that it encourages careless promiscuity among both men and women because any consequences can just be "aborted", at the expense of a life.

This isn't a view I share, of course - even if it did make us more decadent and careless as a society, I'd rather the solution was available rather than forcing yet more children brought into this world by parents who either didn't want them or couldn't possibly provide for them. But I do believe that they believe it's a moral sin, and that's a conviction that's hard to reason with. That's why it's a complicated issue to negotiate, because it's really two separate issues - one social, one moral; one utilitarian, one idealist. I don't know if there really is a middle-ground between the two, and it's a big, weird nation full of all sorts of micronations with all sorts of beliefs.

States rights is a decent solution to this problem, and technically this decision doesn't really negate that, but still ... still, if you're more pragmatic than emotional, it really fucking sucks knowing the damage it's going to cause.

[Ferris]

It's a horrible decision, and not something I believed would ever actually happen. I've seen some people online talking as if the US has banned abortion entirely, though, and thankfully that's not the case. It just means individual states can now ban (or at least heavily restrict) it in their own state - likely ones with a large anti-abortion majority to begin with. Other states like California, Michigan etc. have already put plans in motion to make abortion an inalienable right in their constitution, and I expect most of the blue states won't really change. So we can expect a lot of "abortion tourism" to the blue states, which is a ridiculous state of affairs, and not necessarily feasible for those who need it the most.

I imagine secession will be a big talking point in the next decade or so - either from individual states or entire pockets of the country. It's probably not a bad idea, in many ways, provided people can jump ship easily enough.

Well abortion tourism is probably a thing if you are middle class enough to take time off and afford to fly to a blue state, or can borrow the funds off someone you know.

(Unless you live in Texas, in which case you are liable for a $10k fine anyway.)

[Urinal Cake]

Anti-abortion people really do believe it's a form of murder, and that it encourages careless promiscuity among both men and women because any consequences can just be "aborted", at the expense of a life.

States rights is a decent solution to this problem, and technically this decision doesn't really negate that, but still ... still, if you're more pragmatic than emotional, it really fucking sucks knowing the damage it's going to cause.

That's true but it's often aimed more at women rather than men otherwise they'd advocate for more duties on men as well. There's also an element of populate the America with Christian Americans otherwise we'll get overrun by immigrants/Muslims/godless Communists etc.

The glimmer of hope is that Kavanaugh has said States can't ban people from crossing State lines to get abortions. Which you hope just then becomes an issue of practicality for people.

[touchingcloth]

That's true but it's often aimed more at women rather than men otherwise they'd advocate for more duties on men as well. There's also an element of populate the America with Christian Americans otherwise we'll get overrun by immigrants/Muslims/godless Communists etc.

Yeah, it's highly convenient that religious laws tend to benefit men more than women, it's almost like it's a tool of the patriarchy.

[Noodle Lizard]

Well abortion tourism is probably a thing if you are middle class enough to take time off and afford to fly to a blue state, or can borrow the funds off someone you know.

(Unless you live in Texas, in which case you are liable for a $10k fine anyway.)

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "not feasible for those who need it the most".

I forgot about the Texas snitching thing too. We can probably expect more treats like that.

[JaDanketies]

My dad was very atheist but was seemingly anti abortion. I think it was a Catholic hangover. Maybe related to a real trauma he felt about the breakdown of his marriage.

In fact, when I first started sharing my ideas on the internet and exploring arguments as a 14 year old, I initially was repulsed by the idea of abortion, but it wasn't long until I learned that it was all some religious bullshit and that was what made me change my mind. Cos I identified more with the anti-religious mindset than the anti-abortion mindset.

So there may well be many irreligious people out there who feel like abortion is sliced up jelly humans with tortured faces because someone years ago was Catholic and nobody really pushed against the views.

_{I didn't actually get a full understanding of dad's views on foetuses while he was alive because I felt I knew the answer, but I know that, for instance, he had a news article about a very young premie pinned up, he at least thought that the dad should have some say in abortion, he was seemingly gutted about an abortion that had happened in his past that he had no right to be gutted about because it almost certainly wasn't his, he was raised Catholic in Catholic Ireland, and his son thinks he was anti abortion.}

[JamesTC]

Can we not make the argument that women are useless to the economy when they're heavily pregnant and raising children or something? Try and keep basic human rights that way by appealing to these fucking ghouls on their own terms?

The solution will be to take employment rights away, so maternity leave is basically non-existent. What scant employment laws that exist will be gone before long.

You'll have your birth whether you like it or not. You'll do it in poverty. And don't even think about taking a day off work.

[Ferris]

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "not feasible for those who need it the most".

I forgot about the Texas snitching thing too. We can probably expect more treats like that.

Yeah I figured, just thought it bears repeating!

[Urinal Cake]

With Kavanaugh's legal opinion there might be a good case to overturn Texas's fines etc.

[Memorex MP3]

I still don't understand how I grew up in a Catholic stronghold, surrounded by extremely Catholic people, was shown extremely disturbing anti-abortion propaganda videos in school by one cunt of a failed priest (not a priest, he dropped out of priest college iirc) and my perspective on abortion has consistently been very pro abortion.

The only thing I can think of is that I'm not sure my mam never really believed any of the catholic stuff (despite following it very strictly) and I picked up on that enough to just view the whole thing as just some bullshit set of rules.

[bgmnts]

Well id this thing has taught me anything it's that it's not cringeworthy to be atheist and hate religion, considering this is what it leads to.

So yeah we can roll our eyes at Ricky Gervais doing his anti religion standup but fucking hell it still has a place doesn't it?