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Halifax introduces name badges with pronouns

Started by Stigdu, July 02, 2022, 08:30:19 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Martin Van Buren Stan

Does anyone think they're doing this because they care about trans people? It's obviously for money. Banks don't care about your human rights, stop deluding yourselves

Dr Rock

One of my best friends is called Stacy (he's a he). I've never met a female Stac(e)y.

Dr Rock

Quote from: Martin Van Buren Stan on July 03, 2022, 08:25:30 AMDoes anyone think they're doing this because they care about trans people?

No, but it's still good.

DrGreggles

Quote from: Martin Van Buren Stan on July 03, 2022, 08:25:30 AMDoes anyone think they're doing this because they care about trans people? It's obviously for money. Banks don't care about your human rights, stop deluding yourselves

1. Pronouns on badges
2. ???
3. Profit

jonbob

1. Pronouns on badges
2. Free advertising in every media outlet and a massive distraction from the massive executive bonuses and increasing bank fees
3. Profit

If they want to do it fine, but they  won't stop giving their advertising budget to News limited and political donations to the worst sort of political scum

TrenterPercenter

I'm going to stick my neck out here on CaB and say.

"This is a good thing and people complaining are dickheads"


I have a question though.  Loads of people I work with, especially younger and forward facing staff have pronouns on their email profile etc...  (though the vast majority are cis people). 

I don't put pronouns on any of my contacts, because I couldn't give a shit what gender someone referred to me as (I'm not saying I don't give shit about what other people call themselves but I'm not in that situation), sometimes however it feels like I should do (put a pronoun on) because other people are, but I don't want to as I don't really want to draw attention to something I don't see as important (for me) what is the etiquette around this?

Secondly this got me thinking, as far as I've seen, this seems to always be a conversation around non-binary folk highlighting their preferred pronoun, when it could also be useful for people that cis but just have names that are gender fluid i.e. Sam.

Martin Van Buren Stan

Nobody said it's bad but it's a good thing done by an evil corporation for pr reasons.

Martin Van Buren Stan

Amazon donated 10 million to BLM. Now I'm sure all the people who benefited from that money were grateful but do we have to celebrate Amazon now?

@trentercenter I think some trans people like it when cis people wear pronouns badges as it normalises the whole thing and makes them feel less weird doing it. Though if pronouns badges are ubiquitous it could be putting pressure on trans people to "come out" when they're not ready, as they don't want to be the only ones not wearing them

Dr Rock

Yes they all do it, Lockheed Martin have done pro LGBTQ tweets, etc. So no extra respect for Halifax, but it's still a positive thing for trans acceptance/visibility, especially if other companies follow suit. Plus it's making terfs heads explode.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Martin Van Buren Stan on July 03, 2022, 09:37:03 AMNobody said it's bad but it's a good thing done by an evil corporation for pr reasons.

I've not read the thread MVBS I'm just talking about the typical rightwing response outside of CaB.


Zetetic

It's fine to
Quote from: Martin Van Buren Stan on July 03, 2022, 09:42:03 AM@trentercenter I think some trans people like it when cis people wear pronouns badges as it normalises the whole thing and makes them feel less weird doing it. Though if pronouns badges are ubiquitous it could be putting pressure on trans people to "come out" when they're not ready, as they don't want to be the only ones not wearing them
There are obvious horrible consequences for norming any requirement to endorse a preferred gender identity.

It's fine to leave it off and fine to add it to signatures and so on. Same if you're including "pronouns" in introductions - try to make it clear that people don't have to do that bit.

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on July 03, 2022, 09:34:54 AMI'm going to stick my neck out here on CaB and say.

"This is a good thing and people complaining are dickheads"


I have a question though.  Loads of people I work with, especially younger and forward facing staff have pronouns on their email profile etc...  (though the vast majority are cis people). 

I don't put pronouns on any of my contacts, because I couldn't give a shit what gender someone referred to me as (I'm not saying I don't give shit about what other people call themselves but I'm not in that situation), sometimes however it feels like I should do (put a pronoun on) because other people are, but I don't want to as I don't really want to draw attention to something I don't see as important (for me) what is the etiquette around this?

Secondly this got me thinking, as far as I've seen, this seems to always be a conversation around non-binary folk highlighting their preferred pronoun, when it could also be useful for people that cis but just have names that are gender fluid i.e. Sam.

I think it's a good thing to do even if you're not bothered about it, because it normalises it and tells other people you aren't going to assume their gender/deliberately misgender them. It's a good and inclusive thing to do even if you're not really arsed

Edit: other people got there first while I was typing this

Dr Rock

Just had a quick look at the right-wing fury, it's 'compelled speech' apparently.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Martin Van Buren Stan on July 03, 2022, 09:42:03 AMAmazon donated 10 million to BLM. Now I'm sure all the people who benefited from that money were grateful but do we have to celebrate Amazon now?

Yes I have views on this, I wouldn't celebrate Halifax but the an employee being able to edit their name badge (which is all this is really) is a good thing.

Money to BLM is more problematic because BLM claims to be a Marxist organisation, not that taking money from Amazon would be a bad thing if it was used to promote Marxists ideals.

This is different though.

Zetetic

@dontpaintyourteeth

If you're in a place where it's not already widespread, then you might be able to argue that it's exclusively "good".

Otherwise you're likely contributing towards forcing people who don't really want to endorse a particular gender identity as something that they're comfortable with, to do so.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on July 03, 2022, 09:51:50 AMThere are obvious horrible consequences for norming any requirement to endorse a preferred gender identity.

It's fine leave it off and fine to add it to signatures and so on. Same if you're including "pronouns" in introductions - try to make it clear that people don't have to do that bit.

This is what I was thinking. Ta.

Quote from: Zetetic on July 03, 2022, 09:55:19 AM@dontpaintyourteeth

If you're in a place where it's not already widespread, then you might be able to argue that it's exclusively "good".

Otherwise you're likely contributing towards forcing people who don't really want to endorse a particular gender identity as something that they're comfortable with, to do so.

doing it voluntarily?

Shaxberd

#77
It's occurred to me that people do a very similar thing with titles, ie. indicating gender and maybe other roles with something other than your name.

If it's 'compelled speech' to use someone's preferred pronouns, does the same apply to referring to a married woman as "Mrs"?


Also yeah others got to it first but if you don't want to put pronouns on stuff, don't, it's ok. A lot of people at my workplace do but I don't - I'm trans, my colleagues don't know because I transitioned ages ago and it's none of their business, I'd rather not stick my neck out because it's nice being able to take it for granted now.

shoulders

If you're approaching and speaking directly to someone (especially something transactional like going to a bank or building society) you would refer to them directly because you'd be speaking to them directly.

I don't see a situation during that conversation where you would even need to use they/them/their etc or why their gender would need referring to.

Granted, I haven't scoped this out to its maximum extent, just recalling that I don't refer to people in the third person when we're talking to each other directly.

If you enter a bank to ask for someone specific then the reply will presumably confirm he/she/they and you go from there.

Dr Rock

I was trying to imagine a bank scenario also. Maybe if you spoke to a second person (doesn't happen often) and you wanted to say 'he/she told me to join this line' or something. But you could easily avoid that, say 'the person I was just talking to told me'

#80
this is going to sound like shite observational humour, but I never see any banks that are open anymore anyway. garlic bread? etc

poodlefaker

People used to get pissy about women using Ms, I can remember; well into the late 80s. Imagine giving a shit in ten years' time.

TrenterPercenter

But seriously guys whatever next? They'll be asking for their fivers to have the Queen sporting a regular mo and Wilma Churchill on the back?

Martin Van Buren Stan

Quote from: Dr Rock on July 03, 2022, 10:14:42 AMI was trying to imagine a bank scenario also. Maybe if you spoke to a second person (doesn't happen often) and you wanted to say 'he/she told me to join this line' or something. But you could easily avoid that, say 'the person I was just talking to told me'

Or "your colleague" if you're normal

Dr Rock


Zero Gravitas

You could be referring to them in a situation some time afterwards, like describing to a friend how your mortgage adviser had an arse like two pufferfish fighting under a fallen tapestry?

I'd personally use his full job title in that context, but it's possible.

Buelligan

Quote from: Shaxberd on July 03, 2022, 10:09:22 AMIt's occurred to me that people do a very similar thing with titles, ie. indicating gender and maybe other roles with something other than your name.

If it's 'compelled speech' to use someone's preferred pronouns, does the same apply to referring to a married woman as "Mrs"?


Also yeah others got to it first but if you don't want to put pronouns on stuff, don't, it's ok. A lot of people at my workplace do but I don't - I'm trans, my colleagues don't know because I transitioned ages ago and it's none of their business, I'd rather not stick my neck out because it's nice being able to take it for granted now.

Agreed.  And the Mrs/Miss thing needs offing now

What it's doing is imposing a Vacancies/No Vacancies sign on someone's cunt, either through age or because it's been legally contracted to another user.  Belongs in the dustbin of history and wrongs sometime many centuries ago.

Dr Rock

There is/was 'Ms'. I don't remember any nutjobs crying about 'compelled speech' then.

Butchers Blind


Buelligan

Quote from: Dr Rock on July 03, 2022, 11:14:45 AMThere is/was 'Ms'. I don't remember any nutjobs crying about 'compelled speech' then.

You try telling a gammon boss you prefer Ms.  Jesusfuck, there's crying, I promise you.