Frozen (Disney's The Snow Queen)

[CaledonianGonzo]

What is the difference between Disney and Pixar these days?  Are they separate animation studios?  I was under the impression they'd morphed together by now.

Walt Disney Animation Studios and Pixar are separate studios owned by The Walt Disney Company - though both are overseen at the moment by John Lasseter.  They key difference is probably the different creative teams in charge.

[phantom_power]

I may actually see Tangled, which is odd. I read Paul F Tompkins is in it, and remembered the praises it got here from a few of you guys, so I might actually watch it. 

It is on on Christmas Day, can't remember if it is BBC or ITV though, at about 3.20

[Sam]

The songs are strong but occasionally just a little too Broadway for my palate.  Let It Go is a future classic, but you can imagine it being in a show like Wicked or being belted out by Adele or something.

Had a listen to Let It Go and was very impressed. I detest Lloyd Webber and Adele but this was a cut above. Adele really grates with me: hokey delivery, bad vocal technique, bull-in-China-shop lack of nuance and subtlety, just awful on every count. Whilst Let It Go is definitely a 'belt it out' style number, the singing is very straight, without too much vibrato and affectation. Good stuff.

[Sam]

I had occasion to see this in the cinema today with a small
person and I was mightily impressed. This is easily the best Disney in 10-20 years and as good as the very best they've ever done.

Tonally, it's somewhere between the The Lion King (epic scope) and Brave (Arctic Cirle type setting). The design and animation of the kingdom and snowscapes were breathtaking. The songs are some of the best I've ever heard. I may have 'had something in my eye' during 'Do You Want to Build A Snowman'. Yes, the style was very Broadway but the songwriting was so good it worked. Usually in these sorts of films I get a sinking feeling when it lurches into song, but none of that here.

What makes this truly outstanding were the messages and morals:

I loved the fact that there wasn't a villain, that instead negative emotions and repression were the metaphorical enemy. I loved the subversion of the love story resolution. To me, 'Disney-fied' is a negative adjective, symbolising an unrealistically rosy world-view, the kind of the thing Herzog railed against in Grizzly Man. Yet how wonderful that here the message is that perfection is not only deceptive but undesirable. The person you love will have faults too and, further, you don't need to be perfect before you can find love but it's the love itself which can perfect you.

This was also free from a number of clichés rife in animation. For a start it wasn't an all-star cast (I spotted Ciarin Hinds in the cast but that's it). Robin Williams's Genie has a lot to answer for, ushering in an era of loud-mouthed celebrities playing themselves to the detriment of immersion in the story.

There was gentle humour, but it didn't go for big laughs or the 'one for the kids, one for the adults' approach. Nor were there any tedious pop-culture references which immediately date. Even the comedy side-kick avoided being a sassy racial stereotype. The snowman's humour was more complex: yes there was an elemnt of the jester/fool whose naïveté inspires laughter, but there was also a slightly surreal element where the question of his being inanimate or rather, lacking in consciousness/soul was played upon. The uncertain 'I don't have a skull...I don't have bones...' line was unsettlingly funny.

There was a comedy Swedish accent but at least that's less obvious and if anything brings to mind the Muppets. And one of the female trolls had an 'African American' voice which, nitpicking and stretching a point, could be seen as a stereotypical choice due to the trolls having the function of 'primitive/magic/other'. However compared to other subtexts in the past (Scar and Jafar's evilness is signified by being of dark and swarthy complexion as well as by being camp/effeminate males) this was very mild.

Another point is that it was the parents' authoritarian banishing of the powers which lead to all the problems, the message being that balance and control lead to contentment.

So yeah: true love is messy and not what you think; it can be platonic/familial rather than romantic; you can be your own worst enemy;  control of negative emotions leads to happiness...fantastic messages for young children to be exposed to.

It was a joy to watch, a beautifully animated, nuanced, epic, touching story. Definitely a five star film worthy of all its hype.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I want to see this again as - while I share your appreciation of the film turning a lot of the usual Disney tropes on their head - there are just a couple of times where the story and character motivation are a little muddled.

Specifically in the character of Elsa, where I do get the impression that they didn't know quite what to do with her once she has her 'Let It Go' moment.  One minute she's railing against being locked up in a castle all her life, the next she's building a castle and hiding herself away in it.  I could buy that if at any point it was signalled as being ironic or that she was still trapped or what have you, but instead we get this pseudo-sympathetic character who isn't really villainous, but is still creating giant ice monsters to chase people off cliffs.  She ends up being a bit...neutral.

It's a minor moan in the grand scheme of things, but I'm also fairly sure that Prince Hans going up into the mountains in search of Ana doesn't make a jot of sense in light of his later actions.

Just quibbles that a further draft of the script might have ironed out - I gather that production time on this was pretty short - or maybe I just need to see it again.

At any rate, I ended up buying the soundtrack.

[Sam]

Prince Hans going along could be keeping up the charade (it's expected of him to go).

Like you said, Elsa escaping from one castle to the other is the point: running from your problems won't solve them. The ice monster wasn't supposed to be an evil baddie who'd kill them, just a 'guard dog' who chases them away.

So these weren't plot holes to me, and the lack of villain was a plus not minus for me. Maybe on second viewing I'd find more to nitpick but I was properly swept up in it.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I thought this was lovely, the kind of magical escapist entertainment that Disney did so well back in the day. Anna and Olaf were the highlights for me, character-wise. If I had one gripe, it would be that I found the songs a bit "Glee Club", but after a while I just went with it. So much more enjoyable if you put away the cynicism for a couple of hours. It looks amazing, also, in an almost endless number of ways.

[Mister Six]

Yeah, it's a really great little film - I'd just watched Brave again shortly before[nb]Another fine film and one that benefits from a rewatch, or at least forewarning that it's not going to be the usual plot-light Pixar gagfest.[/nb] so I guess I was on a bit of a familial feminist kick, but the subversion of the usual Disney romance stuff was really appreciated.

It did feel very slight, though, probably because the core of the plot takes place over the course of about 48 hours, and the first part really seems to rush to get all the pieces into place (why does the brown-haired sister have to lose all memories of blondie's magic powers? I don't think that was particularly well explained, or made much psychological sense). Or did I miss something there? The characters go on about how 'winter's never going to end' and so on, but they seem to be basing that on half an hour of unseasonal nippiness, and there does seem to be a natural point, between the sea freezing (which would trap everyone there for the duration) and them setting off up the mountain, for a musical montage about how summer's never going to happen and everything sucks, and so on.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Might give Brave a re-watch later on to see if gets better with age - certainly on first watch I didn't feel it was quite up to the standard of either Tangled or Frozen.  Or Enchanted, for that matter.

I do want to see Frozen again, but it is now firmly set in my mind as A CHRISTMAS FILM.

[Mister Six]

Specifically in the character of Elsa, where I do get the impression that they didn't know quite what to do with her once she has her 'Let It Go' moment.  One minute she's railing against being locked up in a castle all her life, the next she's building a castle and hiding herself away in it. 

I might be misremembering here, but she was never railing against being locked up (in fact, she was locking herself up, until it got to the point where her resposibilities as queen made it impossible to do so). Elsa's central conflict - at least on the surface - isn't being trapped in a room, it's having to constantly hold back emotionally and physically, lest her sister or the villagers discover her true nature and brand her a freak.

When her secret is discovered she puts herself into exile; 'Let it Go' is about how, now that she's dropped all of her responsibilities and run from her fears, she can finally find happiness. With no danger of hurting anyone - or being hurt by anyone - she can enjoy blissful solitude.

But of course, people finding out was never ever the problem, even if she doesn't consciously recognise that. Elsa's issue is that her fear has made her distance herself emotionally and physically from everyone around her. She's terrified of being close to anyone, even her sister, and hates herself for that. That's why she reacts so strongly when her sister wants to get married.

But Elsa's in denial about all of this. and her flight into the mountain, rather than being a chance to live untethered by rules, is just her running from herself. The ice castle is symbolic of that. Even with the power to resculpt the world, all she can think to do is imprison herself again.

That's why the film doesn't end with 'Let it Go' - her character arc can't conclude until she's willing to reconnect with those she pushed away, allow people to accept her for who she is, and open herself up emotionally to pain and love. And so the film ends with the ice palace gone, the summer (ie. love) back and the gates of Arendelle's palace open to visitors.

Basically, it's a metaphor for being a big frigid lesbian.




EDIT: Again, the film taking place over a longer period would have helped, as it would've allowed Elsa's retreat to become genuinely melancholic and lonely, and driven the point home. But that would've taken a few months to pull off at least, and I suppose it's difficult to come up with reasons why Prince Thingummy wouldn't have already marched up the mountain, or just buggered off home.

[Mister Six]

EDIT: Shush, me, you're strangling the thread.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Yeah - your explanation above all makes sense, I just felt there were a couple of kinks in how it was presented in the narrative.  Just enough to prevent it being a five star film.  Tangled's a bit more simple, thematically speaking, so can just get on with being fun.

Enchanted is worth watching for the songs and Amy Adams' performance, which is superb.  I dislike some of the more trad romcom elements, but it seems to have been on telly on Boxing Day afternoon every year for the last 4 years or so and I always find myself being suckered into watching it, so I suppose they don't put me off too much.

[Jerzy Bondov]

My only complaint with Enchanted is at the end when the baddie has a constant stream of lines like 'looks like your STORY won't have a HAPPY ENDING' which is just way too much. As if at that point we're meant to say, oh yeah it is like a fairytale isn't it.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I'd heard that Let it Go had been adopted as a 'coming out' anthem, and some people aren't pleased:

You wonder sometimes if maybe there's something very evil happening here ... I wonder if people are thinking: 'You know I think this cute little movie is going to indoctrinate my 5-year-old to be a lesbian or treat homosexuality or bestiality in a light sort of way.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/mar/12/frozen-gay-propaganda-christian-pastor-colorado

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

It felt quite obvious that the story can be read as a parable about a lesbian who's forced by social pressure to remain in the closet, even if it makes her and the people she cares for miserable, until she realizes this power can't stay hidden, then that she can get acceptance, and that her particularity actually doesn't make her a monster. It's assuming that it's a shame that does. Just like the original version of The Haunting was about Julie Harris who's afraid of finding out whether she's into boys or into women. Or many J-horror films are about the embodiment of a personal guilt. Many fairy tales and horror films are anyway basically the representation of a powerful inner conflict.

So, homophobes have this idea that acceptance and legitimation of homosexuality will result in the gays imposing their own agenda to "normal" people, and "seducing" them to forget they're actually straight, as these groups view homosexuality as just a matter of choice and will.
A film such as Frozen is actually their worst fear, as it says implicitly that some people are born different and couldn't fit in the standard representation of gender, while the God these groups believe in makes every creature perfect, and would never deliberately create a few people slightly different from the norm He established Himself in the Bible.

Still, I'm not that fond of "Let It Go." I agree that it seems to be a song out of a Glee episode. And I felt that it played in the movie over outtakes from Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen. But it's definitely a tune you can't get out of your head.

[Oops! Wrong Planet]

I surprised myself by loving this in the cinema, and actually struggling not to blub towards the end.  My testosterone patch can't be too far away now... or maybe I'm just kinda learning how to be, sniff, human again...

Anyway, Snarken: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb5IH57SorQ

[Head Gardener]

saw this last night & s'ok, bit gurly