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The RedLetterMedia thread

Started by AliasTheCat, October 24, 2019, 10:21:51 AM

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Mister Six

Quote from: beanheadmcginty on May 07, 2022, 10:16:17 AMI think the main thing that Star Trek fans find depressing is the idea that the concept of a utopian future is so alien to these writers that they are unable to create stories within it and instead they have to make the future shitty and nasty for dramatic purposes. It's lazy and bleak. I'm not sure whether that is a warning about where we're headed within society as a whole or it's just that Hollywood has lower standards these days.

Off the top of my head - this might be bollocks, but...

Utopian visions were probably easier to come by for those who'd fought their way through WWII and were looking at a bold new future of safe atomic-powered flying cars and robots. Late '40s/early '50s sci-fi has a lot of sparkly glimpses of the future.

Then the Cold War comes and introduces paranoia and fear of a new evil empire taking over the world, and those who had utopian visions of a communist flavour (which is, surely, the core of all utopian visions?) find their voices squashed (there used to be communists in MI6 until they were all booted out as the UK realised they had to keep Stalin out of West Europe!).

By the 1970s, the toll of the Vietnam war, the threat of nuclear conflict and now far too obvious US governmental corruption has pushed sci-fi towards cynicism (Silent Running, Soylen Green) or escapish (Star Wars). That continues into the 1980s (RoboCop vs Batteries Not Included, say).

Then the Berlin wall falls! It's the end of history, everyone! Communists defeated, capitalism won, therefore capitalism probably the goodies, but just in need of some reform as we head towards a potential utopia. Sure, there are concerns about the greenhouse effect, but we can get that licked if we sort out CFCs.

Now there's s space for hopeful, playful science fiction again (yeah, TNG predates the fall of the Berlin wall, but started a couple of years after Perestroika), and thankfully Gene Roddenberry is still alive to keep the post-war idealism alive. Sure, trouble in the Middle East colours things a bit (hi, DS9!), but there's still a core hopefulness that things might turn out okay.

And then for America (and the West) it's the start of a generation of catastrophes that rattle its self-certainty and stability to the core: 9/11; the tea party leading exacerbating the extreme polarisation of politics; revelations once more that the US intelligence services are behaving appallingly; the failing of the liberal consensus as people realise that the social institutions have been hollowed out but no longer have leftism as part of their political vocabulary to suggest an alternative way; a resulting rise in crypto- and not-so-crypto-fascism; China's rise displacing the US and its allies as the sole global political leaders; billionaires becoming celebrities (and vice versa) increasing the awareness and extremity of the wealth gap; Trump & Brexit; more high-profile black murders by police; the coronavirus pandemic...

All of this happening is bad enough to colour the views of people in the West such that a chummy Star Trek future seems impossible, but making it worse is that the people in charge of media are no longer post-war dreamers, but Boomers and Gen-Xers, for whom cynicism is ingrained.

It's a shame, because these dark times are when a utopic vision is most needed - even when, in fact especially when, it seems so impossible.

bgmnts

One could conversely argue a lot of the best dystopian fiction comes from the mid to late 19th century/turn of the century and maybe the 1950s? Both considerable golden ages in Britain, and Europe, and the US respectively, to my knowledge. But then that sort of supports and contradicts your theory right?


Mister Six

Which dystopian fiction? Honest question. And are those books reflective of then-prevalent trends? People can still write against the dominant cultural flow. Iain M Banks was dreaming up The Culture in the 1980s...

(And I did preface my thoughts with "this might be bollocks"...)

bgmnts

Well of course it's all subjective but to me you have Wells (Time Machine, Sleeper Wakes etc), Orwell (Animal Farm, 1984), Vonnegut (Player Piano),, Trollope (Fixed Period), Verne (Begum's Fortune Assimov (Caves of Steel) Dick (Minority Report). Even Shelley was writing Frankenstein at the back end of the Enlightenment, another golden age of humanity culturally, politically and technologically.

And what a lot of these have in common, to me at least, is the fear of technological progression outpacing - I don't know - spiritual or cultural progression in society. Obviously basic as fuck interpretation and I mostly read for fun but even in the 50s and late 19th century it seems that this sparkling new technology that was to enrich people's lives was not a source of Utopian dreams but Dystopian nightmares for these authors.

Obviously these works are motivated by other genuine fears like totalitarian oppression and McCarthyism and the cold war etc as well.

somersetchris

Quote from: bgmnts on May 08, 2022, 09:31:23 PMOne could conversely argue a lot of the best dystopian fiction comes from the mid to late 19th century/turn of the century and maybe the 1950s? Both considerable golden ages in Britain, and Europe, and the US respectively, to my knowledge.


Was the 1950's a golden age?! Beginning of the atomic era, post-war poverty in Britain, the Cold War, McCarthyism, paranoia about communism, was anyone having a good time in the 50's?! A lot of science fiction (in film at least) was about nuclear annihilation, was there any post-apocalytpic fiction before that, given that it was the atomic bomb that gave us a good idea of what the apocalypse could really be like.

Deanjam

New review of the new Dr Strange film.


Mister Six

Quote from: somersetchris on May 09, 2022, 09:37:42 PMWas the 1950's a golden age?! Beginning of the atomic era, post-war poverty in Britain, the Cold War, McCarthyism, paranoia about communism, was anyone having a good time in the 50's?! A lot of science fiction (in film at least) was about nuclear annihilation, was there any post-apocalytpic fiction before that, given that it was the atomic bomb that gave us a good idea of what the apocalypse could really be like.

I was thinking late 40s/early 50s space race era, before the Communist fearmongering got really ramped up. A lot of pre-Cold War atomic era visions were of atom-powered space trains to the moon, not bombs. But like I said, it might be bollocks.

bgmnts

Quote from: somersetchris on May 09, 2022, 09:37:42 PMWas the 1950's a golden age?! Beginning of the atomic era, post-war poverty in Britain, the Cold War, McCarthyism, paranoia about communism, was anyone having a good time in the 50's?! A lot of science fiction (in film at least) was about nuclear annihilation, was there any post-apocalytpic fiction before that, given that it was the atomic bomb that gave us a good idea of what the apocalypse could really be like.

Absolutely huge economic growth in the states in the 50s wasnt there? Isn't the vision of 50s Americana still pined over today? The suburban house with a picket fence, the music, the fashions, the trends etc. And of course you have all technological innovations like atomic energy and microwaves and clingfilm and polio cures and all that shit.

Obviously all over the world is a different story and every era has it's good and bad sides that is true.

For the record I was specifically referring to the American experience of the 50s as most of the science fiction dystopias I'm aware of were American or famously coming from America.

I agree its not an airtight theory or anything just my musings.

evilcommiedictator

I mean, you have Rise of Skywalker, imagine if Picard S3 starts off with "The dead speak! Shinzon is alive! Picard now needs to go to a water planet with a tal-shiiar knife where the Enterprise-C crashed to find the secret path to Shinzon's lair".

Oh, Picard does that every season with no continuity.


bgmnts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsaTdqhd6eg&ab_channel=RedLetterMedia

Picard finale. I love Mike's pedantry towards the correct usage of hung and hanged and i'm in full agreement.

Mobbd

Quote from: Deanjam on May 09, 2022, 10:42:29 PMNew review of the new Dr Strange film.



Nobody has yet mentioned the wonderful savouring of Mike being WRONG about Easter Eggs and the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

"Look it up bitch!"

Glorious.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: bgmnts on May 09, 2022, 11:26:28 PMAbsolutely huge economic growth in the states in the 50s wasnt there? Isn't the vision of 50s Americana still pined over today? The suburban house with a picket fence, the music, the fashions, the trends etc. And of course you have all technological innovations like atomic energy and microwaves and clingfilm and polio cures and all that shit.

Yeah I think the 50s in America was a boom period for innovation, invention, music, labour saving devices, vehicles, houses and disposable cash for a quickly expanding middle class who had more free time for recreation than ever before (and ever since).

People around then often look it as the perfect time. But you had stuff like cigarette advertising and women probably had their arses pinched more than they'd like so there were problems.


Blumf

Already on 42k likes for their watch The Batman pledge, after just 2 hours.

Deanjam

Quote from: Blumf on May 23, 2022, 09:42:52 PMAlready on 42k likes for their watch The Batman pledge, after just 2 hours.

* watching The Batman not guaranteed. I hope when they get 100,000 they still don't watch it.


Bad Ambassador


Blumf

Quote from: Deanjam on May 24, 2022, 06:42:55 AMI hope when they get 100,000 they still don't watch it.

They watch it, but make no other comment on the film.

It's there, 100k

QDRPHNC

I don't know if someone pointed it out here or elsewhere, but the ratio of engagement RLM gets from their audience is insane.

Deanjam

Quote from: QDRPHNC on May 24, 2022, 03:19:58 PMI don't know if someone pointed it out here or elsewhere, but the ratio of engagement RLM gets from their audience is insane.

They produce a lot of quality for sure. It's probably the only channel on youtube that produces every week and I watch every video. But I wonder how much is down to how they don't pander to their audience, and are often openly irritated by them. Like you more crave the attention of people who don't seem to care than those who do.

Goldentony

Yeah I dont think ive ever seen RLM engage directly with any fans ever and every time they address it on camera it's to let you know they aren't arsed.

I think not just doing shite that's popular to get views has kept the quality way way way the fuck up. Like maybe they were in danger of Half In The Bag becoming a grind because of the amount of horseshit coming out and their low enthusiasm for it but the shit they coverr on BOTW and everything else anchors it all a bit. They've got nil risk of turning into the Wil Wheaton clips they use in the Picard reviews like but take into account something like the AVGN jab they made a while back and they clearly know what they could always easily turn in to at the cost of the content being of any worth.

evilcommiedictator

Bit annoyed at the last Picard review, didn't talk about Wheaton, didn't talk about Rios, didn't talk about swordboy
But sure, it was very inane and not worth it

bgmnts


Lord Mandrake

They made Secular Blasphemy merch!

Apparently the director of Clash In The College is now an MD, and got fined for medical malpractice in 2019 as he was letting untrained staff operate X-Ray machines. Sounds like a bit of a "character".

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2019/08/doctor-cant-dodge-hefty-fine-for-having-unlicensed-assistant-x-ray-patients.html

Fambo Number Mive

#1045
Clash in the College is one of my favourite BOTW. Wonder how they got the money to make Clash in the College and how much it cost to make.

The film is on YT by the way.

QDRPHNC

This might be the first BOTW I've ever had to switch off due to the cringe factor being so high.

Fambo Number Mive

About 50 mins into the actual Clash in the College film. Fascinatingly bad. I've tried not to fast forward too much but some parts are just too cringeworthy. You wonder how the director thought this was a good film when he watched it back.

Fambo Number Mive

The director also directed a film called Hitler's Girl but the IMDb page for that has very little info.

Mobbd

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on May 30, 2022, 11:04:52 AMClash in the College is one of my favourite BOTW. Wonder how they got the money to make Clash in the College and how much it cost to make.

The film is on YT by the way.

Yeah, it was a goodie. I expect it was self-financed. Just like Neil Breen and Geteven but smaller budget. Can't have cost more than three grand even if he was paying the actors a hundred a day. Looks like a digital handheld camcorder job. If he's a doctor now, he was probably in medicine back then too and this was a hobby or vanity project.

I think he partly wanted to get close to hot young chicks but he wasn't bold enough to pull a Geteven or even a Kabisinski by roping porn stars or models into it.

My read on the political content is that he was trying to sound smart. Not even trying to sound politically-engaged particularly but smart. From the names he's dropping, I think he probably reads Time or Newsweek and associates that editorial voice with intelligence.

I think he probably conflates "making a movie" with success.

A lot of long-distance armchair profiling from me this time, but it kinda lent itself to that! The "why" more than than the "how".