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Nintendo Switch: Thread 2: The Drift

Started by madhair60, September 05, 2019, 11:28:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

are you a Switch Bitch

Yes
37 (60.7%)
No
5 (8.2%)
Raoul Moat
19 (31.1%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Haha, I was expecting to be mocked for that post. I did mean it though, when I get immersed in a game the environment and little things like that really appeal to me, which is why I prattle on about lovely scenery and the cosiness of pubs in Witcher 3 and Skyrim too.

Also, as a caveat, it was lockdown when I played BOTW and I hadn't been outside for an age, the satisfaction of building a fire and sheltering from the elements in a world bigger than my living room heightened things.

Dickie_Anders

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on July 01, 2022, 11:20:00 PMThat's fair enough. I think I was probably sick to death of open world stuff ten years earlier, and I'd played all the games that it was inspired by, so it just felt like a very loose magpies nest of pilfered mechanics, done badly, held together with masking tape to me.

What games are you referring to? I think the game it's closest to is Shadow of the Colossus, and I think BOTW is a better game in practically every way.

BOTW is pretty much an antidote to most games, for me. As Mr Vegetables said, of any game I've played it comes the closest to mirroring what it's like to explore IRL. It isn't desperate to excite you every 10 seconds, the game at its best is you slowly moving through a serene landscape of immense scale, and a lot of the mechanics (like climbing) impress upon the player this scale. I absolutely love it, but I can understand why that wouldn't be for everyone.

That being said: if you don't enjoy messing around with the physics puzzles then you are dead inside.

Crenners

Quote from: thelittlemango on July 02, 2022, 11:06:38 AMHaha, I was expecting to be mocked for that post.

Not at all. I totally agree with you, amazing game and something intangible about it which really connected with me. There's something similar to Skyrim.

I actually do think it's a mirror of sorts but, mostly, I was referencing a previous post I made about the game which unintentionally wound a few people up.


Quote from: Crenners on July 02, 2022, 05:55:21 AMThere's a theory that BotW is a mirror to the soul of the player.

You've done that one already, dear.
Nothing wrong with my delicious soul.
I heard that if you're high enough up the samsara ladder and squint, you can just about make me out dancing suggestively in my clear heels and leopard print mankini at the zenith

Quote from: McDead on July 02, 2022, 02:42:06 AMCrysis on the switch is an absolute joy. Perfect Predator sim

Wait, what!?
Wow, that puts the whole "yes, but can it run crysis" meme to bed.
Just looked at some footage and it looks great. That's way better than it looked on my compooper back in the day :D

I know the remastered version was a lot more optimised and running on a much more efficient engine, but fair fucks. I never thought I'd see leaves that sumptuous in a switch game.

Quote from: Crenners on July 02, 2022, 01:00:10 PMThere's something similar to Skyrim.

I think this says it all. Most people will have found that in a previous version of the elder scrolls and thought skyrim was a huge step down.
If it's your first rodeo, then aye, have fun. Knock yourself out, kid. Gaze longingly at your reflection in that shallow puddle for as long as it holds your attention.

Quote from: Dickie_Anders on July 02, 2022, 11:40:12 AMWhat games are you referring to?

Well, minecraft is the big one, innit? I think most people see that. Games like starbound and terraria, don't starve, the ubisoft muck, a pinch of dark souls, rockstar games, a myriad of pc only open world survival games, though I suppose they were channelled through minecraft. I don't think the people who made zelda were sitting around playing those.

Aw man, don't starve was great, I got that in early access, and though it didn't turn into the game it could have been by the end. It was a fabulous journey. I didn't like how they changed the combat, but being plonked into that strange new world and discovering things for yourself was so much fun. Such a fantastic artstyle. The spiders snored when they were asleep, fucking adorable!

Quote from: Dickie_Anders on July 02, 2022, 11:40:12 AMThat being said: if you don't enjoy messing around with the physics puzzles then you are dead inside.

Oh, you mean that thing where you had to roll the marble about and recalibrate your controller every 5 seconds? Yeah, smashing.

oggyraiding

BOTW could have done with more stuff beyond what you get given on Hyrule Plateau. I would have liked to see the return of magnetic gloves, the spinning top you can ride on, and the grappling hook. Spinning tops are way cooler than stasis and ice blocks.

Dickie_Anders

I'm sorry but there are rarely joys in games that equal messing around in a BOTW shrine and completing puzzles in absolutely unintended ways

Haven't played Minecraft so you might be right. I was under the impression that it was primarily a multiplayer game about building things? I recognise that it has an open-world aspect that might be comparable in tone. I don't really see the similarities to Don't Starve or other survival games beyond the superficial. It's similar to Dark Souls and Elder Scrolls in that it's a fantasy game where you swing a sword but I don't think any of them have the same appeal really, all are out to do very different things.

Ubisoft open-world games seem to take the exact opposite approach to BOTW (e.g. guiding the player relentlessly with a bunch of waypoints to do countless 'exciting' (actually boring) things, BOTW places you in a big fuck-off world and lets you satisfy your own curiosity without much guidance)

It's it's own thing, but it can feel like a grab bag of pilfered mechanics and systems if you've played all those other games that came before it.
I'm not saying it copied those games and is exactly the same.

Minecraft was a very different beast when it started. The original crafting system on pc was way more interesting, you had to experiment and discover things for yourself. You were just plonked in the world and expected to figure things out for yourself.

When it came to console, they simplified all that and filled the world with a load of tutorials which totally removed the joy of wonder of feeling like a kid again in a brand new world, experimenting and figuring things out for yourself.

Making your first pickaxe in that game was an achievement. Now they just hand it to you on a plate.

edit: fucking hell, alright mate.

Pink Gregory

I know what you mean about Minecraft.  I could never return to it now because I know I'm just going to be told to do stuff.

oggyraiding

I see why they gave more guidance, especially as they want the child audience. If I was a 5 year old kid playing it, I'd probably never stumble upon how to make tools without the in game tutorial. Though they probably learn how from the YouTubes Men they all watch on their parents' tablets nowadays.

Crenners

Yeah you have to say that the people behind Minecraft really should be listening to the feedback. 😂😂😂


Kelvin

Bizarre that PUBG is so high on that list when it's basically held up as a joke nowadays and a temporary stepping stone to Fortnight. Why isn't Fortnight on there, because it's free to play?

Quote from: Crenners on July 02, 2022, 06:54:19 PMYeah you have to say that the people behind Minecraft really should be listening to the feedback. 😂😂😂

Haha. Yea, can't blame them, you don't catch lightning in a bottle like that twice. If you're gonna dumb everything down so you can shift units to babbas, go for it.

Gaming nowadays, outside of indie passion projects, is just a cynical money making industry.

You can't take your money with you, but you can't take your integrity either.
Get paid and live out the rest of your life on a beech.
We'd probably all do the same, and leave the artform of gaming coughing on our dust. Three emoji's in a row.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Kelvin on July 02, 2022, 07:02:56 PMBizarre that PUBG is so high on that list when it's basically held up as a joke nowadays and a temporary stepping stone to Fortnight. Why isn't Fortnight on there, because it's free to play?

Yeah, I expect it's because the base game doesn't have "sales figures" as such. If they took free-to-play games into account, I'm sure Angry Birds or Candy Crush would be on there too.

falafel

Quote from: Kelvin on July 01, 2022, 10:56:36 PMHeh, I was just browsing the original BotW thread, and I really enjoyed re-reading your posts and our discussion. You played the game in such an unconventional way. I don't think you even realised you could sell stuff or upgrade until really late game. Its great that you still enjoyed it.

The game really does inspire a sort of zeal among those who connect with it, there's just something really magical about the experience if it hits you right. Everyone always says its the sense of exploration, but I've always put it down to the super chilled-out vibe the game has, that really tranquil zen "feel" to it all. My over-riding memory isn't of some big set piece or mad discovery, its of walking through quiet glades while deers spring away.

You prompted me to have a look back. Good thread, that. So, according to the record:
1. My two favourite games are BOTW and Mad Max
2. My two least favourite games are Silent Hill 2 and Bayonetta
3. I like to mention Tolstoy though have never knowingly read him
4. I still don't know what a bully negging is

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Kelvin on July 02, 2022, 07:02:56 PMBizarre that PUBG is so high on that list when it's basically held up as a joke nowadays and a temporary stepping stone to Fortnight. Why isn't Fortnight on there, because it's free to play?
But Wii Sports was given away with the Wii, wasn't it? Or was that just an introductory offer?

Consignia

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on July 02, 2022, 11:49:55 PMBut Wii Sports was given away with the Wii, wasn't it? Or was that just an introductory offer?

It was included for most regions for the most of it's lifetime. However, I bet it's counted as unit sale as a bundle rather than free to play download like Fortnite where nothing is bought to obtain it.

Crenners

That's correct, yeah.

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on July 02, 2022, 08:07:00 PMGaming nowadays, outside of indie passion projects, is just a cynical money making industry.

I do largely agree. I don't have any interest in playing most games because I feel like I know what I'm getting. Advances in dev tools and streamlined design principles means games feel extremely modular and familiar.

I totally understand why you don't like BotW or Skyrim for that reason among others, albeit both hit a sweet spot for me where some indefinable tangibility and evocative sense of place shine through the cut and shut design. I don't think anyone ought to agree with me on that, but that's what appeals to me.

I also think that BotW intersected the physics and elemental systems surprisingly, delightfully well. It may only have been refinement rather than true innovation but it made me approach the game with a sense of curiosity, creativity and imagination, rather than efficiency. I wasn't interested in completing it or whatever, but I really loved the moment to moment. I have very little confidence that BotW2 will be anything other than 'same but more' and I think they've now kind of fucked Zelda as a thing.

As for the wider whole, yep. Gaming feels like an industry far more than an artform, though it arguably always was. The arcade stuff we both love was often just as cynically motivated. Of course you know this, I'm just drawing a reasonably fair parallel. That said, both AAA and indie circles feel creatively pretty barren to me. It may well be just getting older and having played so many games, but I don't feel this way about music or films. Games are in a uniquely stagnant position.

That said, I will get the PS5 Remake of The Last Of Us made in the PS5 TLOU2 engine, upgraded from the PS4 release engine, having first got it on the PS3 before getting the Remaster on the PS4. Same reason I'll be getting the M2 Rayforce collection. I also enjoyed Sifu this year, that was a good game.

Pink Gregory

Thing is, old games don't necessarily go away as much as they used to.  Even when the code has been lost, there are usually dumped ROMs or ISOs at the very least, and even though some digital stores are going down there's been a long while to pick stuff up and have it sitting on a hard drive on an old console in perpetuity (until the hard drives fail I guess)

My gaming diet is by no means up to date, I've got very little desire to keep up with new or cutting edge releases, and what I'm playing at any one time can span the last 20-30 years.

On my Switch I'm currently doing a rotation of Moonlighter (2018), Kirby and the Forgotten Land (2022) and Metal Slug (1996).  Other recents include Enter the Gungeon (2016), Danganronpa (2010), Doom 64 (1997),  Quake (1996) and Super Metroid (1994). 

Hell the next game I'm probably going to get is the Switch version of Nier Automata, which is already five years old, and that feels like a lifetime ago in games.

oggyraiding

We definitely seem to be in a time where companies are looking at their back catalogues and remaking/porting games that may have not been readily available in certain regions, or which may have been less successful at the time. The Mana series, Chrono Cross, SaGa series, moon, Dragon Quest, Live-A-Live, Klonoa, all those Arcade Archives games. Mega Man has been brought back from the dead, with all the legacy ports, even getting a Battle Network collection. I think now is actually a great time to easily experience older games.

Pink Gregory

Where's my fucking Chrono Trigger on the Switch you stingy bastards.

I started playing it on an emulator a while but it got to a bit where I had to press two buttons at once to progress and my computer keyboard can't do that, so I had to drop it.

Quote from: Crenners on July 03, 2022, 08:54:44 AMI think they've now kind of fucked Zelda as a thing.

That's interesting to hear you say that. I so wish they'd just started a new IP, because I think you're 100% right and probably the thing that breaks my heart so much when I see people overly praising the game.

When the shitmunchers ask for zelda now, they'll be expecting more breath of the wild and they'll kick up a stink if it's not what they get.
I think they tried too hard to appeal to western audiences which is never, ever a good idea when it comes to gaming.
It's paid off for them hugely. I see it's the only zelda on the list that you posted, and skyrim is the only elder scrolls.
As usual, if you want to make money in gaming, don't listen to your hardcore fans :D

I get what you're saying about the sense of place and stuff. I get that, weirdly in some shmups like black bird and deathsmiles 2 that I'm playing again at the minute. I get that with a lot of stuff. A Valley Without Wind was a big one for me. A very weird mouse and keyboard open world platformer where you went down underground and fought loads of monsters.
Very weird, ugly beautiful, mixed up aesthetic and there was a real comforting sense of melancholic isolation.

Was really looking forward to the sequel but they fucked it royally, they decided one of it's main strength, the control scheme where you could be placing platforms with your mouse and precise aiming your spells and stuff wasn't good and that they wanted to make it like every other platformer and really zoom the camera in.
Fuck knows what they were thinking.
Don't Starve as well, I lost days in that world. I really got sucked into that.

I suppose it was always an industry, but I loved that the business side was a bit more separate and hands off back in the day.
In the speccy days you'd get these crazy gaming auteur guys sitting in their bedrooms throwing things together and they could take it to a publisher and it be on the shelves within the week.

Yes it was still like a conveyor belt at times, they'd buy a licence for an arcade game or a film and commission someone to throw something together in a couple of months, but I always liked going through those little weird games and the public domain scene on the amiga way more than the big releases.

Arcade games were totally different, as you say. For every genius dev like cave who would pride themselves on making games hard but fair, there were a hundred games that were hansel and gretel style witches houses made out of cake and sweets but when you got in there some big bully would just turn you upside down and shake out your dinner money.

That sort of bedroom coder thing still exists in indie gaming, and yes, I know what you mean. When I say indie games, I'm pretty much just talking about indie shmups really at the minute. That's all I play, the roguelite boom seems to have dried up and they're all making soulslikes at the minute so I'm steering well clear of all that! :D

Indie shmups are true passion projects, they know like 5 people are gonna buy that shit, but those five people are gonna adore it.

I just love shmups and all the ways they go, all the little iterations and mixing of mechanics and score systems and stuff.
I can totally see how people could think it's a creatively barren genre. It's all just space invaders.

I really like films too. I don't listen to as much music as I should nowadays. There was a time when it really lifted me up and a day felt lost if I didn't get an hour to enjoy some.
I should definitely make time for it. It's one of those things that just tends to get pushed out when you've got other shit to do.

Speaking of older games. I saw this yesterday! - https://twitter.com/CPL_Games/status/1528653912848334849

Manic Miner was always the much better game for me, but I'd to see how this pans out. I think it'd be a really good modern take if you gave the guy infinite lives, but your deaths are counted at the end and they subtract from your score.

Crenners

Great post and I will reply properly in the next couple of days. Just got unexpectedly shuntered with work for about 48h but should be free to have an independent thought by Weds.

Haha. No rush. You've probably heard it all before.

Dickie_Anders

It's interesting that you perceive BOTW as "not hardcore". One of the things that I liked about it was that it felt like a return to the early days of the series, where there was real challenge (only early on really, when you don't have much health or stamina) and you were much freer to approach the game in the order you wanted. I think I read an interview where the devs said they had consciously tried to emulate the original Legend of Zelda. The series was also much freer to experiment early on (Zelda 2).

I was never a massive fan of Ocarina of Time or the successive 3D Zeldas, which stuck pretty strongly to its formula. I suppose to many that became "true Zelda"

Kelvin

Quote from: Dickie_Anders on July 03, 2022, 05:06:41 PMIt's interesting that you perceive BOTW as "not hardcore". One of the things that I liked about it was that it felt like a return to the early days of the series, where there was real challenge (only early on really, when you don't have much health or stamina) and you were much freer to approach the game in the order you wanted. I think I read an interview where the devs said they had consciously tried to emulate the original Legend of Zelda. The series was also much freer to experiment early on (Zelda 2).

I was never a massive fan of Ocarina of Time or the successive 3D Zeldas, which stuck pretty strongly to its formula. I suppose to many that became "true Zelda"

Yes, I think this is a big part of it, people have different ideas of what Zelda is and should be. Hence all the people who say the game isn't a Zelda game because it doesn't have big, expansive dungeons, for example. But then, the series didn't have those huge sprawling dungeons until Ocarina, really - and by Twilight Princess they were really becoming a slog. Early games had much shorter dungeons, and maybe only one or two that were a bit more maze-like.

BotW very clearly harks back to the very first NES Zelda game in it's design ethos; open-world, go anywhere, miss important stuff, stumble over secrets, generally do levels in any order. Obviously it builds on ideas from other open-world games too, but those all built on Zelda (and other early "open" games) so its all part of the same incestuous lineage, no-one can be upset when one game pilfers from another.

As for Crenners' point about them "fucking Zelda as a thing", I honestly think it's too early to say at this point. You could easily say the same about Ocarina leading to increasingly formulaic 3D Zeldas - by Skyward Sword they were clearly trying to shake things up again, and the same will probably happen with the big open-world ones in a few games times. The Link's Awakening remake suggest they'll probably be putting out smaller, more traditional Zeldas between their bigger tentpole 3D titles, so there's room for different types of game, clearly. Let them experiment with open-world Zelda for a bit.     

Oh, I did think it was pretty hardcore, yeah. Some of the fights really tested me. Sorry, daft choice of words, I suppose I meant diehard fans of certain franchises, you probably don't want to listen to their feedback if your main goal is to do gangbusters in the sales department.

Yeah, I'm the same, really liked the top down 2d zeldas the best. Although I really enjoyed some of the 3d ones. Wind Waker was really good. I liked that sad kid who sat next to the windmill and I think there was another terminally depressed dude that lived under a house with a load of chickens or something?
Wind waker at night time felt really atmospheric.
I bought a second hand gamecube and that game and it used to fall over during some of the sailing bits. I don't know if it was the disc or if it was a problem with the game in general.

The first nes zelda and some of the gameboy ones and snes one were all top banana.

Pink Gregory

Link's Awakening > Wind Waker > BOTW > Ages/Seasons > Twilight Princess > Ocarina for me Clive of the ones I've played.

It does have lot to do with the ones I had when I was in short trousers.  Link's Awakening was an unusual one to start with because it deviates a bit from the usual Zelda formula (Zelda isn't in it for a start) so I didn't have any expectations going in to the others; so I've never really given much of a shit about Zelda/Gorons/Zora/Gerudo/Sheikah business, which is probably why I still like Wind Waker so much, because the Rito and the Koroks haven't been shopped around so much.

Ocarina is obviously great but I never played it at the time and it just didn't appeal to me in the same way that Wind Waker did, with it's deep blue skies and expressive, childlike (and actual child) Link.  *And* Wind Waker still has the scariest ReDeads.  Shame it's essentially unfinished but I never noticed.

jobotic

God I would love to play Wind Waker again

Kelvin

I assume it and Twilight Princess will be released on Switch a year or so after BotW 2. Nintendo have put out a Zelda title every year on Switch (BotW, Link's Awakening, 2 x Hyrule Warriors, Skyward Sword HD), and it seems inevitable that the HD remasters of Windwaker and Twilight Princess are ready to go when they have another gap. If you haven't played it before, the HD remaster of Windwaker is a big improvement over the original, with a number of game changing tweaks like a fast sail and cut down Triforce Quest.   

Kelvin

I've just remembered another really fun addition to the Wii U version of Windwaker; you could draw pictures and write messages on the gamepad and then send them off to other players via bottles in the ocean! Shame that probably won't make it into a Switch version.