Old Doctor Who - Part 4

[Catalogue Trousers]

Nothing to moan about, post-Moffat?

Miles must be deranged.

Be'ave.

[Alternative Carpark]

Nothing to moan about, post-Moffat?

Miles must be deranged.

To the best of my knowledge he largely stopped watching DW around 2011/2012 and has barely watched it since.

[McDead]

If I'd had my work as mercilessly stripmined for the show as is has been, I'd probably be the same. Not only did he receive no recompense or credit - not even a namecheck - fandom largely turned on him, dismissing him as a bitter, forgotten figure, dubbing him "Mad Larry" and the like. He's better off out of it.

[Bad Ambassador]

We were calling him Mad Larry long before that, trust me.

[McDead]

nvm

[Replies From View]

Was the Time War his idea?  I can't remember what else was supposedly his.

[samadriel]

He came up with the Time War but left the identity of the Time Lords' enemy open for other authors in the BBC line to pin down.  From memory, he thought that making the enemy the human race or Daleks would be "boring", and he never intended for the enemy to be Faction Paradox (Peter Anghelides' and Steven Cole's book Ancestor Cell resolves the Time War, but it's shit. I look forward to purlieu's opinion when that one comes around).

I doubt Neil Gaiman meant to rip off Miles,  but sentient TARDISes were one of his as well.

[Bad Ambassador]

Miles seemed to think it was impossible for several people to have the same idea around the same time, based on pre-existing cultural factors. Moffat's done episodes nearly identical to episode ideas that I've had and barely told anyone, and one of the Eccleston books is almost the same as another I thought of. The idea that all these ideas were ripped off from Miles, rather than the product of cultural trends and parallel thinking, is absurd.

[mjwilson]

Was the Time War his idea?  I can't remember what else was supposedly his.

Making a big escape by jumping into the TARDIS (which is on its side) and falling into the swimming pool.

The idea of the future Doctor's death hanging over current events.

[George White]

At that BFI show of the Dalek films, Subotsky's son revealed that the mooted third Dr Who film Subotsky was trying to make post-AMicus in the Eighventies, 'Dr. Who's Greatest Adventure' alias the Lossiemouth Affair, was actually a rewritten version of King Crab, his doomed adaptation of Guy N Smith's Night of the Crabs, with the setting moved from Wales to Scotland.
It also would have had TWO doctors, one older, possibly either Jon or Tom, and a younger, new incarnation.

[McDead]

Miles seemed to think it was impossible for several people to have the same idea around the same time, based on pre-existing cultural factors. Moffat's done episodes nearly identical to episode ideas that I've had and barely told anyone, and one of the Eccleston books is almost the same as another I thought of. The idea that all these ideas were ripped off from Miles, rather than the product of cultural trends and parallel thinking, is absurd.

It pretty clearly isn't absurd. Lawrence Miles actually *did* write these books, they actually *were* published, and there's no chance whatsoever that Moffat didn't read them. And the similarity of tone, of concepts, of, I don't know, let's say "scope", is pretty undeniable. But anyway, I don't want to relitigate 20 year old squabbles, I just feel bad for Miles. And unfortunately, that's the nature of working on tie-in fiction, everything you write is owned by the corporation and can be used or reused as they see fit. Again, he's better off out of it.

[Malcy]

Apparently the 3rd Cushing film was to have 2 Doctors in it. One Old and one young.

A script called 'Night of the Crabs' adapted from an unmade horror film.

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-greatest-adventure-unmade-film-newsupdate/

[Replies From View]

Making a big escape by jumping into the TARDIS (which is on its side) and falling into the swimming pool.

The idea of the future Doctor's death hanging over current events.

Oh okay so generic stuff that everyone comes up with, and he's decided he was first so he must have been ripped off.

[McDead]

Fucks sake

[Bad Ambassador]

Put it this way - Lawrence's agent is a long-time friend of mine, the three of us watching the first transmission of Rose together. She got the job because she loved his work so much, she's convinced he's the English-language's greatest living writer (and has endured the occasional nudge in the ribs from me on the subject) and she isn't even remotely as upset about this as you are.

[George White]

Apparently the 3rd Cushing film was to have 2 Doctors in it. One Old and one young.

A script called 'Night of the Crabs' adapted from an unmade horror film.

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-greatest-adventure-unmade-film-newsupdate/

See above.

Night of the Crabs was extremely loosely adapted, possibly unofficially in 1980 as 'Island Claws'.

[Malcy]

See above.

Night of the Crabs was extremely loosely adapted, possibly unofficially in 1980 as 'Island Claws'.

Ah missed your post!

[JamesTC]

Just started the Season 22 set. Watching the Colin Baker interview with Matthew Sweet. Creasing myself up at Colin suggesting that he avoided a noncing by possibly not being attractive enough.

[frajer]

Just started the Season 22 set. Watching the Colin Baker interview with Matthew Sweet. Creasing myself up at Colin suggesting that he avoided a noncing by possibly not being attractive enough.

Ha!

Mine arrived earlier, cannot wait to get home and dig into it. Especially looking forward to the new Two Doctors documentary and the new commentary for Revelation of the Daleks (Colin Baker, Nicola Bryant and Alexei Sayle!)

[Norton Canes]

The thought of Tom Baker having to publicize anything called 'Night of the Crabs' doesn't bear thinking about

[Ron Maels Moustache]

Making a big escape by jumping into the TARDIS (which is on its side) and falling into the swimming pool.

The idea of the future Doctor's death hanging over current events.

The concept of The War, a future conflict so vast and all-encompassing that it affects the whole of time and space, is a bit similar to RTD's notion of the Time War. It's a broad enough idea that two writers could've thought of it independently, but it is quite a coincidence.

[JamesTC]

The thing about the Time War was RTD never really intended on us seeing any of it. It was just a way of adding backstory and mystery to the show.

The war itself wasn't particularly interesting (until the 50th) and the importance of it was only ever in relation to The Doctor.

Maybe Lawrence Miles did give RTD the idea. I don't think it really matters considering RTD never wanted to analyse it or revisit it in any great way.

[Replies From View]

Fucks sake

Sorry, but both the examples you gave are plainly obvious ideas that anyone would have come up with.

Diving into the TARDIS and landing in the swimming pool:  the TARDIS doors are essentially a portal, and the swimming pool is an obvious soft landing - the only soft landing already established as an internal part of the TARDIS.  With decent timing it's also a comedic opportunity.  It's an absurd stretch for anyone to claim that Moffat must have copied this idea from them.

The Doctor's death hanging over present events:  stolen from Heidegger's Being Towards Death, or what?  I mean it's a time travel show, RTD did the Tenth Doctor anticipating his own death and Moffat did it with the Eleventh Doctor for series 6.  The Fourth Doctor had a version in season 18.  It is quite the definition of an obvious idea.


I CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF PUTTING BREAD IN A TOASTER

[13 schoolyards]

The concept of The War, a future conflict so vast and all-encompassing that it affects the whole of time and space, is a bit similar to RTD's notion of the Time War. It's a broad enough idea that two writers could've thought of it independently, but it is quite a coincidence.

Initially at least, the (Time) War seemed to be a pretty obvious metaphor / stand in / excuse for the years when Who was off the air, involving as it did sinister forces from outside the frame of reference for Who's universe attacking not only the Doctor but everything around them, ending their present and future (and to stretch things a little, erasing chunks of their past). Making the unnamed Enemy either "poor ratings" or "The BBC".

It wasn't so much an unique idea that later writers would be stealing, as it was an idea that worked so well it became central to the series once someone thought it up.

[mjwilson]

Sorry, but both the examples you gave are plainly obvious ideas that anyone would have come up with.

I'm not trying to claim otherwise, just mentioning some things which appear in both Miles books and the new series.

_{(Anyway the Time War dates back to the novelisation of Remembrance of the Daleks.)}

[Deanjam]

Just started the Season 22 set. Watching the Colin Baker interview with Matthew Sweet. Creasing myself up at Colin suggesting that he avoided a noncing by possibly not being attractive enough.

Mine came today. Started, as always, with the behind the sofa reactions. A great line up this time, Peter Davison, Janet Fielding (always great together) & Sarah Sutton, Colin Baker, Nicola Bryant & Terry Molloy, and Sylvester McCoy with Wendy Padbury.

[daf]

Have the chairs got lower? Peter Davison seemed to be sinking into the earth's core by the end!

[Deanjam]

Have the chairs got lower? Peter Davison seemed to be sinking into the earth's core by the end!

I think it's just Peter's chair having a funny one.

[daf]

[Alternative Carpark]

I'm not trying to claim otherwise, just mentioning some things which appear in both Miles books and the new series.

_{(Anyway the Time War dates back to the novelisation of Remembrance of the Daleks.)}

You could argue that the concept goes all the way back to 1980 with the Alan Moore-written back-up comic strips in DWM, where the Time Lords are in a temporal war with the time-travelling Order of the Black Sun. No-one writing for the book ranges first came up with the idea of a time war.