Cutting a toxic person from your life thread # 7563

[Twit 2]

Last week I cut ties with a "friend" I've known for over 12 years. I just wrote a list of things that disturb me about his behaviour (things he's said and done). Over 40 items. It's only when you truly confront it and join all the dots you realise how stupid you have been and how ignoring the bad shit is so dangerous. I've fallen into lots of traps which I realise are so common and why people a) get into and b) struggle to get out of abusive or controlling relationships.

I think what made me come to my senses was a combination of:

- making other big changes, like leaving a career which was harming my mental health
- spending a lot of time with other, stable friends
- cutting ties indefinitely with my parents (my mum physically and mentally abused me as a child; my dad violently attacked me and my wife in front of our kids; neither are willing or able to discuss the damage they caused)
- watching Succession, where toxic relationships and personalities is a regular feature
- following the Glinner saga
- following the Depp/Heard case

Anyway, feel both relieved at getting the fuck out and slightly apprehensive about the guy turning up at my house with violent intent. Without going into the 40+ alarm bells on the list, I should say this is a person with a particularly horrendous childhood (if they are to be believed) and a combination of bipolar and ASD (diagnosed) and (undiagnosed) as textbook as anyone could possibly be Borderline Personality Disorder/Narcissistic personality.

There has been some discussion with my wife and some friends about whether going to police or social services is a good idea (he has a wife and young kid, and he's mentioned—in the context of a Peter's Mad Thought convo—killing them and himself), or whether that would make things worse. (They may not be able to do anything when it's just hearsay and no crime committed, and my own family could be endangered if they speak to him but don't do anything...don't trust the police with this sort of thing...)

[Glebe]

Fuck, sorry to hear that about your parents Twitters. As to your friend it sounds like he needs help but if he's turning up at your gaff with 'violent intent' then it's obviously time to end your friendship. In any case hugs and best of luck mate.

[The Mollusk]

What's he like with amphetamines? The ASAP variety of course.

[The Mollusk]

Also this sounds mental af, lots of love and support to you pal.

[bgmnts]

Good stuff!

But yeah, unsure how to handle the possibility of violent reprisal, I dont think it will come to that though.

[Twit 2]

Fuck, sorry to hear that about your parents Twitters. As to your friend it sounds like he needs help but if he's turning up at your gaff with 'violent intent' then it's obviously time to end your friendship. In any case hugs and best of luck mate.

He hasn't turned up; I meant I'm apprehensive about the possibility.

[willbo]

I "broke up" with an unhealthy friend a few years ago. He actually saw a thread I wrote about him on Reddit, which was the last straw and broke us up (i forgot he knew my username and must have been checking it regularly). I'm actually glad we split over the thread, pretty grateful for it at times. The funny thing is I don't really ever miss him that much, though i thought I might, and i can't even remember what he did to be horrible. It wasn't even anything huge like he was abusive and manipulative. He was just intense, annoying, selfish, always mildly insulting in a jokey way, always "performing" as in always trying to be cute and funny and upbeat, like life was an eternal youtube video or BBC panel show and he couldn't ever just drop the act and be himself. Always attention seeking and ..you just couldn't relax around him. Plus he was really fragile, like if people were  talking about a subject he liked (such as 80s pop) he'd feel disrespected that he wasn't deferred to as the expert there.

In fact, I've just found my reddit thread from 2016 when I was asking for advice about him...

He has an obsession with how hip and "with it" he is and has huge sulks if someone knows about something which he hasn't heard of. For example he had a strop at the fantasy/sci fi meet we go to because everyone was talking about Brandon Sanderson books and the sitcom Kimmi Schmit and he hadn't heard of either.

He just says strange things to put people down, like I told him I wanted to skateboard and he said "oh people rollerblade now, you just think skateboarding's hip because you're not hip to modern culture like I am",  I told him my uncle was Canadian, And he started saying, oh he's not, Brits who move there are fake canadians"  He just keeps making little smug digs like I was playing guitar and he says,well there's no point you playing that because you're too young to remember rock n roll...I mean they sound silly on their own but he makes too many.

He's obsessed with playing guitar but refuses to practise and sulks for days if anyone shows him what to do because it looks to difficult (even power chords).

And he's..he's always trying to force humor . ..he desperately wants to be funny and get people's attention. He's told me lots of times that the reason he learns guitar and does the podcast is because he needs attention, and he's always angry and bitter and complaining that other people are "in the spotlight"...though he does nothing to deserve fame (won't practise music, won't be nice).


oh... it's' all coming back now... he used to chat up the teenage girls who worked in burger king. He was like 45 then btw.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

Show him the list if he turns up. He'll have a moment of clarity and realise the error of his ways.

[elliszeroed]

Twit 2 - I have no advice, but you are in my thoughts.

Willbo - your friend sounds so unrealistic, but I guess that's reality for you.

[Zero Gravitas]

- spending a lot of time with other, stable friends
- watching Succession, where toxic relationships and personalities is a regular feature
- following the Glinner saga
- following the Depp/Heard case

For a second I thought these were examples from your list!

But yeah, good on yer Twit, consciousness of and acting on what you'll accept can be hard, particularly if it's a long term acquaintance it can be hard to see the shit for the trees.

[willbo]

Willbo - your friend sounds so unrealistic, but I guess that's reality for you.

He's actually even wilder than I made it sound, I watered him down to make him believable...

the scary thing is he'd just been "dumped" by previous friends - a married couple - when I met him, so he was raging about that all the time in a kind of scary way, like he was one step away from stalking them. So obv. I was scared of his reaction. Plus... its difficult when you know someone has issues and mental health problems. He'd also been in trouble with the law for stalking an ex partner years before.

edit - more stuff from the original thread (I'd forgotton so much of this)

every time an attractive woman has attended a meetup in our nerd group, he sits and watches them with an intense stare from the other side of the cafe while other people chat to her, goes home and finds her on facebook through the friends that bought her, adds her with a creepy message, then sulks about what a bitch she is for not adding him and only talking to the cocky guys that "monopolise her attention".

He asked me round to show him stuff on guitar, and he keeps asking me to explain to him what playing in key means, and getting angry when I try , no matter how simple I make it. I started talking about keys and scales, and he just got angry and said "I'm not into that classical crap".

In the end, I was playing him simple riffs on his keyboard and trying to demonstrate how the key note should sound a sense of completion.

I played him "smoke on the water" and said, "listen to that last note, listen to how it sounds so you know the riff has come to an end"

he just shrugged angrily and said "well I know it's the end of the riff because I've heard the song"

and I said "well listen to how it sounds ending on different notes"

and I played him the riff but switching the last notes for wrong ones,

And he just stared at me with a stupefied look on his face and then got angry and shouted "Deep Purple wouldn't care about that crap! They don't think about playing in keys and stuff, they just play whatever sounds cool! They're not one of your crappy folk groups!"

And he thinks it's the height of comedy to see a sexy woman walk past when someone is talking to him and then turn around and say "oh yeah..I didn't hear what you were saying because of the tits" even though he is constantly asked not to do this.

he's obsessed with trash talking anyone who has success in an area he likes...and he's intense. He can't ever just sit back and chat in a relaxed way. He's constantly looking in your eyes, saying everything intensely.

The 3 things I can't stand are the bitterness, the pervyness and the intensity. The rest of the silliness is ok.

[C_Larence]

And he thinks it's the height of comedy to see a sexy woman walk past when someone is talking to him and then turn around and say "oh yeah..I didn't hear what you were saying because of the tits" even though he is constantly asked not to do this.

Alright but this is funny

[Twit 2]

Is it, though?

[Pink Gregory]

I imagine it's funny once.

[willbo]

he was doing it with like every 12/13 year old we walked past

[Pink Gregory]

he was doing it with like every 12/13 year old we walked past

jesus christ mate.  fucking HELL.

[Zero Gravitas]

Once is alarming, twice and you should start questioning the circles you're moving in.

[holyzombiejesus]

Last week I cut ties with a "friend" I've known for over 12 years. I just wrote a list of things that disturb me about his behaviour (things he's said and done).

Please show us the list.

[willbo]

I've just remembered something else. We were once in Tesco, and he was getting a bunch of snacks, and he realised at the till he didn't have his debit card. So we rushed home in his car. Then we get home, and he's like "...so what were we doing now? Were we gonna meet somebody?" And I just gently said "that shopping? remember? you were gonna go back and get it". He wasn't all there (neither am I, but even so.)

And somehow...something always felt empty with him. Like we'd get snacks and watch a movie, but it often didn't really feel like being with a friend. There was something cold and distant. Like you were the audience and he was performing.

Like once we went to Odeon cinema and he parked behind then immediately marched to the back door with the bins and tried to push his way in. He was always doing stuff like that and I could never figure out if it was to "create mayhem" (because his whole life had to be a funny youtube video or episode of "Curb" etc) or if he really was just doing silly things all the time because of his Aspergers etc. I still don't.

[willbo]

Once is alarming, twice and you should start questioning the circles you're moving in.

to be fair, he wasn't part of any circle. He was a guy on the edge of the group who I liked because he was charming and cool seeming. And older like me. (most of the others being like 25 ish and very left wing/social justice, certainly nothing like him)

[markburgle]

Cutting toxic people out is hard. Props to anyone who manages it.
They usually have their charming side, and those of us with a flaky sense of boundaries / weak self-esteem try to cling to that and convince ourselves they're good people who just need a chance. You can waste years on that delusion.

I cut out a couple of mates, one who became a monomaniacal Christian and constantly lectured me about how I was destined for hell, another who was a school friend who slowly revealed a really mean streak, coupled with a refusal to ever apologise/grow/take responsibility.

He would do shit like ordering loads of takeaways to someone's house, then act like we were cramping his style when we told him off. It was like he saw himself as some kind of prankster loose-cannon renegade figure. He ultimately prioritised that over keeping friends. It's like in the Office where Brent has to apologise to Tim and practically chokes on it because it goes against the cool-guy schtick he's trying to project.

Last I heard he was driving a forklift.

[Martin Van Buren Stan]

Haven't spoken to my dad in years because he was abusive to me, my mum, and basically everyone else in my family at various points. I don't think about it that often, but I'm not sure if my issues with him are resolved or if I'm just in denial and will I wish I'd spoken to him about it before he dies (which I'm surprised hasn't already happened - he's been an alcoholic and  heroin addict for over 30). Considering his astonishing selfishness, narcissistic tendencies and lack of self reflection that seems pointless but is it worth a try. Probably not.

Does a cut off continue after death? If the cunt does die before me, I wouldn't want to go to his funeral but should I do so to support my mum / siblings I wonder.

[JaDanketies]

A former friend of mine - in fairness to him - is incredibly mentally ill. I've seen people in supported living who are less ill than him.

He fucked off 18 months ago, abandoning his kids - the 5th, 6th and 7th children he has abandoned. I'd always thought that he actually did want to see his kids, and had given him the benefit of the doubt, but I can't do that any more.

He is also a racist misogynistic homophobe, and not in any kind of politically-correct Tory-voting way. I had some kind of cognitive dissonance about being friends with someone like this, and in the last 18 months these thoughts have disappeared.

All our mutual friends agreed that he was a shithead for abandoning his kids and that they didn't want anything to do with him.

Anyway, he has now turned up in my town again. He knocked on my front door but I wasn't home, and then he knocked on it again but I was working. In the spirit of my dad, who was always giving people a bazillion second-chances and who would've been 69 (lol) yesterday, I went to meet him on Friday in the pub. He wanted to embrace but I gave him a weak handshake.

He has lost a tonne of weight, and is unmedicated, and obviously very unwell. About two mouthfuls of beer later, I'm starting to relax and feel like I should be honest with him, like what friends do.

He's talking about how he's just been to see his eating disorder therapist, and he doesn't have a place to stay, but his plan is to starve himself until he saves up £1k for a deposit and one month for a rental in the area.  He is also telling me that his ex isn't allowing him to see kids 5, 6 and 7, although he is developing a relationship with near-adult kid 1.

I say to him, like you would to a friend, and in the context of repeatedly telling him to engage with his doctors, "I don't blame your ex for not letting you see your kids. You abandon them 18 months ago, saying it's because of your mental health, and then you reappear unmedicated 18 months later? If I was in the same position but it was me, my fiancee and her kid, I wouldn't let her see him either."

He then finishes up his drink and leaves, and he'd only been there for about 10 minutes. Sometimes maybe honesty is always going to come across badly. But perhaps I could've been more tactful. Sitting there listening to some deadbeat crying "woe is me" while he steadfastly avoids step one to developing a relationship with his kids.

I only ever fucking met up with him because he wouldn't stop knocking on my door otherwise.

Spoke to mutuals about it and it seems they had better experiences with their reunions, even though they were talking about what a prick he was.

Really hard to think of any good qualities about him, other than that he is charming.  I am slightly worried that he will die in the immediate future.

Fiancee implored that I text him is there anything I can do to help him get better, fortunately he replied "no."  She is surprised by my lack of warmth towards him but tbh I feel like he fucking hoodwinked me for 10 years by pretending to be a good person who was struggling, and it is remarkably easy to view him as a nazi who is abandons his kids and was probably an unimaginable shithead to his 10-years-younger ex. Maybe I view abandoning your kids as more unforgiveable now I've got one of my own.  But maybe you need to be ultra-understanding when someone is off their meds.

Anyway maybe you can cut toxic people from your life by no longer being nice.

[Cold Meat Platter]

I've found that being in a band with a toxic friend and having to tell them they are no longer in the band does a pretty good job with this, although I have to say less so if you're still sharing a flat with them.

So maybe form a band with them and then sack them.

[Brundle-Fly]

Some of the toxic people discussed here sound like they've stepped out of a Daniel Clowes graphic novel.

[Midas]

i cut someone out of my life for becoming a centrist bore

[Catalogue of ills]

There has been some discussion with my wife and some friends about whether going to police or social services is a good idea (he has a wife and young kid, and he's mentioned—in the context of a Peter's Mad Thought convo—killing them and himself)

@Twit 2 how long ago was this?

[Blue Jam]

I played him "smoke on the water" and said, "listen to that last note, listen to how it sounds so you know the riff has come to an end"

he just shrugged angrily and said "well I know it's the end of the riff because I've heard the song"

and I said "well listen to how it sounds ending on different notes"

and I played him the riff but switching the last notes for wrong ones,

And he just stared at me with a stupefied look on his face and then got angry and shouted "Deep Purple wouldn't care about that crap! They don't think about playing in keys and stuff, they just play whatever sounds cool! They're not one of your crappy folk groups!"

Did you used to have a stash of fake Rolexes and Kennedy half-dollars with Kennedy facing the wrong way?

[Blue Jam]

Cutting toxic people out is hard. Props to anyone who manages it.
They usually have their charming side, and those of us with a flaky sense of boundaries / weak self-esteem try to cling to that and convince ourselves they're good people who just need a chance. You can waste years on that delusion.

I once had a friend like this. She was a raging attention-seeker, thought it was really funny to embarrass people by saying inappropriate things, was incredibly self-centred, and had a knack of steering any conversation to being about her. She was also funny, charming, and a huge amount of fun to be around. Eventually I found her more annoying and exhausting than fun and drifted away, but meh, it was fun while it lasted.

I guess that's how the "superficial charm" you get with some personality disorders works. That said, I get very uncomfortable with the way people are swift to diagnose people with BPD and NPD these days, those things aren't uncommon but I don't think they're anywhere near as common as many would hqve you believe. I don't think my friend was a narcissist, she was just a bit immature, and I later found out she'd been through a majorly traumatic life event which actually went a long way to explaining why she was the way she was. I wouldn't want to hang out with her again but I have no hard feelings.

[Blue Jam]

He would do shit like ordering loads of takeaways to someone's house, then act like we were cramping his style when we told him off. It was like he saw himself as some kind of prankster loose-cannon renegade figure. He ultimately prioritised that over keeping friends. It's like in the Office where Brent has to apologise to Tim and practically chokes on it because it goes against the cool-guy schtick he's trying to project.

Last I heard he was driving a forklift.

HAHA LEDGE