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Rail strike next month?

Started by Fambo Number Mive, May 11, 2022, 10:46:41 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

TrenterPercenter

Not sure if already posted but here's a link to the RMT strike fund, if anyone is in a position to make a donation:

https://www.rmt.org.uk/about/national-dispute-fund

Buelligan

It's a great cause, worth donating to.

Quote from: jobotic on June 23, 2022, 11:20:12 AMDo you think that this is perhaps, just perhaps, alerting people to who is really to blame for the shit we are.

You know, not refugees and trans women?

Yeah, interesting, isn't it.  I'm guessing the MSM, having seen how incredible Mick Lynch is at getting stuff across, will try to cut back on letting him have the mike, still it feels like there's a movement in the Force alright.  Excited.

Old Nehamkin

Quote from: phantom_power on June 23, 2022, 10:45:52 AMThere was one insightful comment on the Tweet that Walker put out to show the interview. People on the left are always being labelled "socialists" or "leftists" or "marxists" in the media while people on the right are seen as somehow ideologically neutral. That really skews how lots of people see the two sides. One is seen as rational and impartial, the other factional and biased. It is as subtle cunts trick

Remember during the 2019 election when that man confronted Boris Johnson in a hospital about the decimation of the NHS and about 5 seconds later Laura Kuenssberg was breathlessly sharing the guy's twitter account and outing him as a "Labour activist". As if it was some damning trump card that someone who was advocating for an issue had also campaigned for a political party that had pledged to address said issue. As if valid criticism of the Tories' handling of the NHS could only possibly come from some mythical member of the public who feels strongly about the subject without having ever attached themselves or voiced support for any movement that might conceivably be defined as left-wing.

Of course, people who explicitly support the Tories or any given right-wing political project are always portrayed as the default representatives of the true national zeitgeist who have to be appeased and pandered to at any cost. But if someone who thinks that public services should get more money or that it should be easier for normal people to afford to live somehow gains a public platform, the media will treat it as an alarming aberration in the natural order of things and will immediately shit themselves until that person is safely discredited or otherwise neutralised.

Bently Sheds

Saw this on another forum:

QuoteTune into Question Time tonight to see Terfina McPlant ask Mick Lynch what he thinks a woman is

bgmnts


TrenterPercenter

#155
Quote from: Bently Sheds on June 23, 2022, 12:30:14 PMTune into Question Time tonight to see Terfina McPlant ask Mick Lynch what he thinks a woman is

Mick Lynch is doing a great job but it is good to remember that he is just the forward facing element of the movement, within that movement there will be a variety of views and ideas about various socio-political issues.  The point is people "unify" around a common cause and don't allow it to be diluted by "but what about...." that culture war stuff lends itself too.

That post is taking taking the piss out of Terfina McPlant but it could quite easily be Mick Lynch failing to qualify trans-rights in a way some members of the trans community might take offence to (I doubt it as he looks like he's got his head screwed on and understands the foundations of his Marxism).  Indeed his biggest risk at the moment is probably from groups on the left accusing him of not accounting enough for identities, diluting his message and making him fight on multiple fronts rather than the focus on his relatable broad appeal.

This is the problem with the Idpol approaches of the last decade, it's focusing on the differences between people and not the unifying aspects of them, it frankly doesn't seem interested in them.  People have chosen to read that over the last 4-5 years as "throwing minorities under the bus" or some other needlessly emotive insincere rhetoric, and of course it works because it degrades the moral position and appeal of the left.  It is absolutely the same way that some people, not all, have weaponised other aspects of racism against lefties, the right-wing literally stole it from very short-term minded leftwing tactics - largely churned out by Neo-libs in the Guardian but some reason still hold truck with lefties that whilst have rejected the commentators still inhabit their ideologies. 

In fact it is attempting to do the exact opposite of hurting minorities, you unify people to show them they have more in common with each other than differences, its the basis of class consciousness and the reason why they come together fight for each others rights (visions of LOTR "you'll have my bow" and "you'll have my axe"), this is very different from an individualistic approach that really just ends up being divisive, reductionist (i.e. discriminatory itself) and playing into the rightwing hands (hence why they are happy to pick it up and run with it).

EDIT: Just catching up with Novara and great to see this very point being covered by Moya Lothian-Mclean hopefully this can gain some traction and momentum now, a very positive step.


Blumf

Now look what you've all done, the bleeding airport workers are getting bolshie too!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61906236
QuoteHundreds of British Airways workers at Heathrow Airport have voted to go on strike over pay.

Unite and GMB union members who are mostly check-in staff and ground crew backed industrial action.

A total of 700 workers are set to walkout during the summer holidays, when demand from travellers is expected to return to pre-pandemic levels.

Pretty soon we'll all be getting the pay and conditions we need, complete mess! Won't anybody think of the poor shareholders?

TrenterPercenter

Also worth pointing out that Lynch's performances really highlight what the problem was with some of Corbyn's media appearances, there were some awful ones in there (and some excellent ones).  There is no point saying "yes but the media" here, JOB was correct here when he said any labour leader knows this is nailed on (he was however completely and infuriatingly wrong when he then tried to pretend that Corbyn didn't get it as bad as Ed Milliband). 

He needed to operate and win these battles, Corbyn was at times quick to temper and really quite rambley or unclear on occasion, coming across sometimes as some kind of ageing rockstar getting prissy when not presented with his fans - he knew this and fair play to him as it was of course a massive slog for any individual but it still goes down as mistakes and failures to manage the media (and that does not excuse the media, they are shocking but you need to take them on and beat them at their own game - there are several ways that someone can go around this). 

This was even known at the time comparing him to Sanders who understood the need to communicate clearly and efficiently, I mean Corbyn refused to go on several shows and disappeared for times which just highlighted these problems further.

jobotic

Now look, inconveniencing the sort of losers that have to travel by rail in this country is one thing - but good hard working people who can afford to holiday abroad six times a year? That's just wrong.

What about all the CaB posts that start "I'm currently in Dubrovnik?". What will happen to them?


kittens

how much it cost to join unite. wanna make sure i get that sweet time off in case of general strike.

greencalx

Edinburgh tram drivers seem to be throwing their hat in the ring too, although they'd probably need the bus drivers to join in as well to have a big impact.

Buelligan

Quote from: jobotic on June 23, 2022, 03:16:11 PMNow look, inconveniencing the sort of losers that have to travel by rail in this country is one thing - but good hard working people who can afford to holiday abroad six times a year? That's just wrong.

What about all the CaB posts that start "I'm currently in Dubrovnik?". What will happen to them?



They will have to remain in Dubrovnik or pay top dollar to unsavoury logisticians and make their way back to the Land of Milk and Honey (and onward to Rwanda), crossing the Channel in a giant inflatable baby.


bgmnts

Fuck me this should be the time, every one strike and say listen rich cunts give up some of your billions to us so we dont struggle or get to fuck.

jamiefairlie

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on June 23, 2022, 01:49:00 PMMick Lynch is doing a great job but it is good to remember that he is just the forward facing element of the movement, within that movement there will be a variety of views and ideas about various socio-political issues.  The point is people "unify" around a common cause and don't allow it to be diluted by "but what about...." that culture war stuff lends itself too.

That post is taking taking the piss out of Terfina McPlant but it could quite easily be Mick Lynch failing to qualify trans-rights in a way some members of the trans community might take offence to (I doubt it as he looks like he's got his head screwed on and understands the foundations of his Marxism).  Indeed his biggest risk at the moment is probably from groups on the left accusing him of not accounting enough for identities, diluting his message and making him fight on multiple fronts rather than the focus on his relatable broad appeal.

This is the problem with the Idpol approaches of the last decade, it's focusing on the differences between people and not the unifying aspects of them, it frankly doesn't seem interested in them.  People have chosen to read that over the last 4-5 years as "throwing minorities under the bus" or some other needlessly emotive insincere rhetoric, and of course it works because it degrades the moral position and appeal of the left.  It is absolutely the same way that some people, not all, have weaponised other aspects of racism against lefties, the right-wing literally stole it from very short-term minded leftwing tactics - largely churned out by Neo-libs in the Guardian but some reason still hold truck with lefties that whilst have rejected the commentators still inhabit their ideologies. 

In fact it is attempting to do the exact opposite of hurting minorities, you unify people to show them they have more in common with each other than differences, its the basis of class consciousness and the reason why they come together fight for each others rights (visions of LOTR "you'll have my bow" and "you'll have my axe"), this is very different from an individualistic approach that really just ends up being divisive, reductionist (i.e. discriminatory itself) and playing into the rightwing hands (hence why they are happy to pick it up and run with it).

EDIT: Just catching up with Novara and great to see this very point being covered by Moya Lothian-Mclean hopefully this can gain some traction and momentum now, a very positive step.

Yes.

The power of single focus solidarity has been deliberately obscured for years now to such an extent that when a union leader does his fucking job well, everyone on the right shits themselves and the left all swoon at his super powers. It's not hard it's what you're meant to do every day as a left wing leader.

TrenterPercenter

Also the powerful people in the country and their influence on the media understand all this, Lynch might have usurped a few broadcasters for the moment but they'll take a love in around his performances as a distraction to fact that the news media in the UK is biased towards unions and leftwing causes whilst they see it they can find the PR key to unlocking Lynch.  In a lot of ways having idol representative figure is useful as you manage to discredit them you can discredit the whole movement.  I very much doubt Murdoch or any of the other rich and powerful people will be losing much sleep over this at this point.  They'll also much prefer to celebrities Lynch rather than cut him out he's too linked in at the grass roots for this to work.  They'll want him publicly bought to task and then capitalise on it.

Zetetic

#166
If you want to start doing unifying and practical stuff - and understandably don't know where to start or are worried about it being difficult to navigate - join something like ACORN (or a renters' union or the like) and start going to actions. It will get easier.

(And then start taking on organising roles if you feel up to it.)

(This is not meant to put you off joining a workplace union, but - for various reasons - a lot of these won't offer an easy and immediate way to start doing something. )

TrenterPercenter

I'm not sure why ACORN would be better to join if you want to do something? I know they have broader reach than their original tenants focus but they are locally focused so if you are not living in an area of concern for them you are likely to not really get much benefit from them.  They are also quite unclear on actual tangible benefits of membership and it seems more like give us some money so we can campaign.

There are of other unions that will be more suitable for people to join and ACORN has no unique claim on being "active" you can be active any union just speak to your rep they will 99% bite your hand off.  Unions are born out of guilds and interests so if you are concerned about poor housing in your area and want to be involved in local community groups to raise those concerns with local councils then sure go for ACORN, but if you are looking for representation at work then you going to be much better served by UNITE obviously (you also get much better tangible benefits like free legal representation and financial relief for a range of social issue (like getting injured at work or having a bereavement, there is even support for people on benefits you don't have to be in work).

I'm just going by website there Z, they appear to be more of campaigning group and I'm not poo-pooing that just rather pointing out that it is unclear whether they have reps and what they would do for people, it appears to be give us some money so we can campaign on your behalf (our you can be involved) on this list of pretty typical leftwing concerns - appreciate they might be a union in waiting here and you will likely know more.

honestly i think the age of "difference" as the absolute and all transcending intellectual concern (and a way for bourgeois to present themselves as more sophisticated than they are) is dead and thoroughly buried

we're living in a two decade aftershock of those ideas filtering through big institutions and into real life, and that too is drawing to a close. it can't be 1976 forever.

jamiefairlie

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 23, 2022, 05:34:46 PMhonestly i think the age of "difference" as the absolute and all transcending intellectual concern (and a way for bourgeois to present themselves as more sophisticated than they are) is dead and thoroughly buried

we're living in a two decade aftershock of those ideas filtering through big institutions and into real life, and that too is drawing to a close. it can't be 1976 forever.

What do you mean here?

Zetetic

#170
ACORN didn't have "a original tenants focus". The focus on housing for most ACORN branches in the UK reflects the needs of those communities.

My post was very clear that 1) it was about " if you want to start doing unifying and practical stuff" and 2) "not meant to put you off joining a workplace union". I suppose I could have said "as well" to try to head off the deliberately hard-of-understanding, but for obvious reasons that still wouldn't have done me any good.

If my post was about "If you want to go on holiday in Eastbourne" then, yes, Unite would clearly be a better, exclusive, choice.

Quoteif you are not living in an area of concern for them
This makes no sense. Branches in an area work in that area.

Quotethey appear to be more of campaigning group
ACORN is a direct action group, and branches will spend most of their time and energy on member defence.

This will not generally involve "raising concerns with local councils" (?!?!).

Quote from: jamiefairlie on June 23, 2022, 05:38:57 PMWhat do you mean here?

"difference" (and identity, same thing in practice) has had a huge hold over intellectual life for the past half century. its guided a lot of things like the way institutions have decided to focus on language and discourse instead of practice and organisation, and the way that a so-called cultural turn has dominated the way that left wing activism and politics interacts with the intellectual traditions behind it. in leftist politics this is centered on the idea that universality and solidarity were, in themselves, oppressive or dominating ideas and the crediting of them with the failures of Marxism and the Soviet project, etc. so we must elevate difference over unity whether possible, fracture over cohesion and categories over commonalities. the truly oppressed are not the unequal but the different. its a much broader trend than this, of course, but I don't want to risk driving the thread off topic

ultimately this is a highly institutional (and aristocratic in the abstract sense) view and it can't hold forever. Focusing on "difference" can and has easily become part of the liberal "end of history" thesis: the one long march of a self-identical history to which all events belong fractures into the play of forces of social or cultural difference. In many parts of life where intellectual trends overlap with political or cultural life, we've seen historicism and genealogy take over from reason and logic, perspectives and positions take over from debate and argument. This is all the practical effects of old hat arguments from the 1970s as far as I'm concerned, and political reality is moving a lot faster than ideas do as usual.

its a back to the drawing board moment.


TrenterPercenter

#172
Quote from: Zetetic on June 23, 2022, 05:39:05 PMACORN didn't have "a original tenants focus". The focus on housing for most ACORN branches in the UK reflects the needs of those communities.

Well their branding is off then if they are looking to work more broadly, I don't think I'm anything unusual here but I've always considered them having a housing focus (and hence their name ACORN which has connotations of housing because it is used for lots of different housing services and organisations to do with housing).  That being said how they came to that is really neither here nor there.

Quoteif you are not living in an area of concern for them [/quote
This makes no sense.

Ok so you live in an area that does not have a housing concern, you work and you want representation for a work dispute, who is going to be better placed to represent you an organisation with a massive history of handling workplace disputes that has provided support for millions and millions of cases or a "union" which says it will "champion" the working class and campaign on a load of leftwing ideals?

I've never seen any action from Acorn by me, but I do know about them regarding some of the housing issues around opposing evictions.  They've got 2 campaigns at the moment illegal bus charges and the writing some stuff and sending it to the government about the renters reform bill.

If you can point out to me some practical doing stuff that they are involved in outside of housing that is more accessible and developed than other Unions like UNITE then I'd be keen to hear about them.

Zetetic

#173
"If you want an easy way into getting used to doing stuff, then you should join X."
"POINT OF ORDER! If you want something else, then you should do Y."

"We work mostly on stuff that relates to housing because that's one of the biggest concerns to the vast majority of people without wealth in Britain."
"I don't care, why aren't you working on something else?"

This must be why the bloody trans people and their idpol are killing unity on the left :(

Zetetic

This week we've dealt with letting agents and landlords to 1) prevent an eviction, 2) forgive £1000 of rent arrears, 3) get £100 back in "holding fees" and put an end to a specific set of rent-in-advance and guarantor policies.

But, boringly, this is to do with issues that are actually affecting people and - worse - the last of these is probably idpol because of the discriminatory impact of those policies.

TrenterPercenter

#175
What is their niche? What do they provide that other Unions don't, you cite "direct action" but that just implies activism i.e. like Momentum which is suppose in the broad sense of use of term "union" could be described as such.

Looking through there achievements there is (as expected) a heavy focus on housing, I'm not knocking this I think in fact they would be much better suited to pursing that sense of "Union" it's an important area, then they could think beyond direct action (campaigning and preventing evictions - again housing based) to what benefits would be useful to members here.

Also in reference to your what is it "hard-of-understand" aspect about local branches this is from their website.

QuoteWhat if there isn't a local group in my area?
The local group is the main way members can be active in ACORN. If there isn't a local group in your area then get in touch with us and we'll support you to get one set up. If you're not ready to do that yet then you can still play a vital role by supporting our work financially through dues payments and joining in our online campaign activities.

So yeah if you are looking for a easy way to get involved then just set up a branch for them in your local area (if not just send them money).  I appreciate what ACORN do they are good I'm pointing out on the terms of practically doing something they are not unique - better to flog them as if housing and evictions are pressing concerns for you and you want to get involved then ACORN is a good shout.

And look this idea that you qualified it with workplace blah blah, I get that I'm not actually saying ACORN are bad in anyway I just more pointing out your post seemed to be slanted towards suggesting being active in other unions wasn't as easy as ACORN, which I can't see being particularly true - my local Labour group on WhatApp is carrying out direct action weekly.

Anyway ACORN are good people should look then up and decide what is right for them.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on June 23, 2022, 05:59:17 PM"If you want an easy way into getting used to doing stuff, then you should join X."
"POINT OF ORDER! If you want something else, then you should do Y."

"We work mostly on stuffs that's relating housing because that's one of the biggest concerns to the vast majority of people without wealth in Britain."
"I don't care, why aren't you working on something else?"

This must be why the bloody trans people and their idpol are killing unity on the left :(

Jesus. You might be having a bad day so I won't bite.  You know that isn't a fair representation of what has been said and also a pretty astonishing smear considering the whole point about using minorities and vulnerable groups as a rhetoric (case in point really isn't it).

You should retract it but I won't hold my breath.

The point was why was ACORN anymore accessible to "pratically doing stuff" than a whole range of other organisations or unions - really no reason for you then indulge in this behaviour.

Go well Zetetic.

Zetetic

I will concede that the brevity of my precis has necessarily sacrificed one of the most prominent stylistic features of the original, but I think it's up to the reader to decide whether that really constitutes a loss.


Buelligan

The soul of wit, they say.