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The big CaB Doctor Who (2005) rewatch thread - starts May 30, 2022

Started by Mister Six, May 24, 2022, 03:30:33 AM

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Mister Six

I thought about that, but watching three shows a week plus tracking down minisodes is a bit too much of a time investment, when there's plenty of new telly to watch and stuff to do. I'll stick with Who, but if others want a crack at a Torchwood/SJA thing at the same time, then they can go for it. Otherwise, maybe this thread (if it's still going) can switch to one of those shows once the last Capaldi episode is done.

Maybe a tiny, tiny side step for when the Doctors 10 and 11 appear in a SJA episode. Mostly because they're an actual delight. Think you could squeeze the first after School Reunion and the other sometime after Matt Smith's first season (he drops them off after their wedding).


Mister Six

Hm, maybe! School Reunion will be up in just over a month, so I'll canvass opinions closer to the time. Probs do both SJA episodes at the same time though (they're all two-parters, right?).

Mister Six

While I'm wondering - do people want to bother with the Pudsey Cutaway scene before The Christmas Invasion? Doubt there'll be much to discuss, so maybe make it optional?

daf

Bit of a shame to throw away SJA - there's plenty more to enjoy than just the two Doctor episodes - and it's not really giving the characters a fair shake if you only dip in a couple of times.

I agree that it's a bit much to do everything all at once, though - but we could have a SJA thread after we wind this one up as a bit of a fun coda.

BritishHobo

I'm up for sticking to the main episodes (with stuff like CiN and the SJA crossovers as supplemental stuff if people want to watch, and then maybe a separate rewatch later as daf says). The Torchwood thing is just a bit of self-inflicted torture that I'll probably give up on by episode 3.

Mister Six

Quote from: daf on August 15, 2022, 04:45:20 PMBit of a shame to throw away SJA - there's plenty more to enjoy than just the two Doctor episodes - and it's not really giving the characters a fair shake if you only dip in a couple of times.

I agree that it's a bit much to do everything all at once, though - but we could have a SJA thread after we wind this one up as a bit of a fun coda.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that. And it'd be nice to have a bit of Tennant/Smith stuff to look forward to once we're done with Who proper.

I do kind of want to do a Torchwood thread too, out of a rubbernecking sense of the macabre if nothing else, but not concurrently with another show.

daf

Quote from: Mister Six on August 15, 2022, 05:23:03 PMI do kind of want to do a Torchwood thread too, out of a rubbernecking sense of the macabre if nothing else, but not concurrently with another show.

I'll be up for that (If it's still on i-player - I haven't got it on DVD) - All the characters seem to be insufferably smug bell-ends, so it should be tremendous fun to kick around!

daf


BritishHobo

I had no idea it was announced so early! It's funny - Rose felt so beloved and iconic at the time, it's bizarre to think she only did two series, and had already bowed out while series 1 was still airing. In a medium where most popular characters end up riding the popularity for far too long, until their character has been bled dry by season 9, it's telling how loved Rose and Nine still remain despite their short run.

I suppose the lasting effect Rose has on Ten makes it feel like she's a companion for much longer than she is. Similarly it's quite funny now to think how explosively exciting it was to see her in Partners in Crime - at which point she'd only been gone for a single series.

Malcy


daf


Daily Star (25 May 2005)  |  Radio Times (11 June 2005)

Replies From View

"Imagine the effect on the ratings when even more lads and their dads tune in!"

Replies From View


I like the idea that RTD would be banging heads with BBC execs to raise the additional budget to secure the star of Hell's Kitchen 2004.

"But she's got really nice tits."

Mister Six

It's interesting how Piper seems to have created a presumption that a new companion would be white and blonde. Although maybe that's just because it was the mid-2000s.

Quote from: Mister Six on August 18, 2022, 05:18:53 PMIt's interesting how Piper seems to have created a presumption that a new companion would be white and blonde. Although maybe that's just because it was the mid-2000s.

I don't think they've given it much thought beyond Billie only having about six sexy pictures in total, making it difficult to illustrate articles without repetition, whereas Ellison did a load of lads mag shoots, so they'd have a never-ending supply of pics of her in her knickers they could could use and a keen agent who was pretending she was on the shortlist.

Of course, we ended up with Freema Agyeman who had that one scene in a bikini in Crossroads. They must have been absolutely furious.

BritishHobo

Quote from: Replies From View on August 18, 2022, 03:19:22 PM"Imagine the effect on the ratings when even more lads and their dads tune in!"

It just gets worse and worse with these! And the sidebar with the reality TV correspondent 'chavving it up' in a chummy Big Brother publicity event, complete with a very poorly-aged gag about the psychological test. Makes this episode - with its empathetic distaste for Big Brother chewing people up and spitting them out - seem even better.

Interesting to see Laila Rouass on the (alleged) shortlist as well - who would go on to appear in series 3 of my childhood/teenage favourite show Primeval, before it got axed.

Malcy

Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on August 18, 2022, 05:27:40 PMI don't think they've given it much thought beyond Billie only having about six sexy pictures in total

She has loads more than six.

So I've been told...

Replies From View

Quote from: Malcy on August 18, 2022, 08:04:42 PMShe has loads more than six.

So I've been told...

How many frames per second in an episode of Doctor Who again

*boggle, gawk*

Replies From View

Quote from: Mister Six on August 18, 2022, 05:18:53 PMIt's interesting how Piper seems to have created a presumption that a new companion would be white and blonde. Although maybe that's just because it was the mid-2000s.

Not terribly woke of the Doctor to not fancy Martha.

daf


BritishHobo

Ha ha! The absolute fucking balls of that Times article! "Stay off the internet if you want to avoid spoilers. In other news, a bloke on the internet's been saying the Bad Wolf is Rose."

Replies From View

Yeah that's nuts.  Stay off the internet if you want to avoid spoilers... it's saying stuff like this!!

Presumably they considered it such a mad theory that nobody would think anything of it, but still.  Makes me glad that solid state paper newspapers are going extinct - they deserve it after that.  Imagine The Times advising people to stay off the internet in 2022!

Mister Six

Another late review! Wayheyyyy!

I think that on a first viewing I was a bit snooty about the game show crossover idea, and thought it seemed like they were just wasting time before the Dalek reveal (not helped by the bloody Daleks being all over the newspapers for a week prior). Watching it again now, even in the knowledge that the croaky metal bastards are going to show up, it's a rollocking little adventure that never lets up.

Actually, something I noticed this time around is how carefully paced it is. One of the screenwriting books I read recently recommended having a major plot point of some kind every 10 minutes or so, and sure enough that's what we get here:

  • Minute 1: The Doctor realises he's on Big Brother
  • Minute 11: Rose learns that if she loses The Weakest Link she'll be killed
  • Minute 21: The Doctor escapes the Big Brother House
  • Minute 31: Rose gets zapped
  • Minute 41: The Doctor declares war on the Daleks and vows to get Rose back

It's like clockwork! Go look for yourself. Obviously there are B-plots and worldbuilding going on around those spikes, but the main thrust of the episode hits those 10-minute marks each time. It's pretty amazing, and I'll see if it happens every week (although if it's a regular feature I suspect the non-RTD episodes won't be quite this precise).

So yeah, the episode itself holds up really well, although the subject matter looks dated already just 12 years on; can't imagine it'll seem on-point 200,000 years from now. I wonder how it plays to newcomers today? I suppose the game show/styling show formats are evergreen enough, but Big Brother isn't even mentioned by name in the cold open, I think. Then again, maybe the twist of The Doctor being on TV will be enough to carry people over the intro sequence.

Certainly Eccleston grumping his way through the Big Brother experience is entertaining. After so many Big Emotional Scenes this season, it's nice to see him just being a bit petty and shitty to a deserving subject rather than poor Mickey. And honestly, I think I could enjoy an episode of him just in regular, non-fatal Big Brother. The opening round of Rose on Weakest Link maybe goes on a bit too long before the danger becomes clear and Jack is utterly charmless in his What Not to Wear appearance, but there's plenty enough going on outside of all that.

Lynda-With-a-Y (a Press Gang reference?) is a very affable character, and it's such a neat way to make Rose's death seem plausible even if she's only "dead" for a couple of minutes. And there are some good laughs throughout - especially the bit about one of the shows being "Stars in Their Eyes - literally". And I love the meta-reveal that "The Long Game" was itself Davies playing a long game with the story. Like that episode, the threat to Earth does feel somewhat abstract, but the game shows and their contestants allow for an extrapolation of what life is like on Earth in a way that the nebulous take on "news" in TLG never really did.

And it looks great, considering the budget (or even ignoring it). Lovely use of exaggerated lighting to turn what is presumably just a soundstage and some warehouses into somewhere that feels properly expansive and weird. It's an aesthetic they kind of dropped into the second season, if I recall correctly, and I really wish they hadn't. The camera also seems more mobile and expressive in this episode than in most of what's come before, which brings the whole thing to life.

Even Murray Gold's music won me over, with some weird futuristic burbles here and there, although the soundbar/subwoofer setup on my telly broke at one point and suddenly the audio experience rocketed me back to 2005, with audio utterly drowned out by the music. Was that the problem all along - they were mixing this stuff for the home cinema setups people would have over a decade later?

Stray observations:
  • Jack feeling up one of the robots' tits was a bit "hiding in plain sight", wasn't it?
  • The focus on Earth felt so silly and restrictive the first time I watched the show, but in retrospect it's necessary; End of the World had to end with The Doctor and Rose looking down on what was the Earth, and The Long Game's connection to the finale meant it had to be in Earth's orbit

8/10

Replies From View

Quote from: Mister Six on August 20, 2022, 11:30:30 PMthe subject matter looks dated already just 12 years on

*checks watch*


It actually felt dated to me in 2005.  I can understand why RTD wanted to hit the zeitgeist rather than focus on anything truly timeless, but even then those shows had been around for long enough (Big Brother and The Weakest Link 5 years apiece; dunno about Trinny and Susannah) to feel tired and a bit of a cliche.

Mister Six

Quote from: Replies From View on August 20, 2022, 11:45:51 PM*checks watch*

My understanding of mathematics is even worse than my grasp on time.

I suppose the point of the shows he picked is that they're telly staples rather than brand new zeitgeisty series. Same reason EastEnders will turn up at the end of season two: the comfortably familiar made strange.

Replies From View

Good point; maybe that's what I meant.  My issue was feeling they weren't as timeless as RTD was projecting anyway.

Mister Six

I don't think he's really suggesting that they're timeless, or has ever thought that. I think it's just - here's a thing that everyone in the audience will recognise right now, let's do it in the future!

Today it'd be, I dunno, Love Island or The Great British Bake-off or something. Whatever is big in the UK right now. Cyber-Noel Fielding.

Mister Six

Quote from: Alberon on August 15, 2022, 10:15:57 AMAgain, the Doctor is confronted with the result of his habit of skipping out as soon as the week's villain is defeated and we learn what the real Long Game was.

This was something that disappointed me, especially coming after the cop-out at the end of Boom Town. The idea of The Doctor throwing things into chaos then skipping off to his next adventure without ensuring that the new situation doesn't end up worse than it was originally is really interesting, as is his surprise that this might actually happen.

So fairly quickly going "Oh, it's just the Daleks wot dun it, they were behind The Long Game too" and then forgetting about it feels like a cheat.

Then again, maybe it's a Pandora's Box that should never fully be opened. How can we ever relax into the credits after a dictator is overthrown suspecting that someone even worse will rise in his place?