Refusing to pay energy bills

[bgmnts]

It's the only thing most people would be behind though really isn't it? Actually doing something takes time and energy when you could be pissed in your garden or whatever, but not paying for something is something most people will accept.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Just pay mad Ron the sparky to bypass the meter.

Actually with smart meters getting rid of meter readers, I wonder how likely breached meter seals are to be detected. I guess if they're smart they could dob you in.

[Vodkafone]

Isn't it National Grid who owns the meter? I've switched providers many, many times, but the meters never change, they just ask for the code that's printed on it.

Oh you might be right actually. Suppliers definitely can force access though and they can make you have a prepay.

[Vodkafone]

Just pay mad Ron the sparky to bypass the meter.

Actually with smart meters getting rid of meter readers, I wonder how likely breached meter seals are to be detected. I guess if they're smart they could dob you in.

The problem with bypassing the meter is that the energy companies look at your usage and think "that ain't right" and then get on your case to let someone in to check it. Plus if it's a DIY bypass and you're in a communal block, it puts neighbours at risk of fire in the building. Can definitely see people doing it more as prices go up though.

[Sebastian Cobb]

The problem with bypassing the meter is that the energy companies look at your usage and think "that ain't right" and then get on your case to let someone in to check it. Plus if it's a DIY bypass and you're in a communal block, it puts neighbours at risk of fire in the building. Can definitely see people doing it more as prices go up though.

I'm in a communal block with points outside for the cleaner to vacuum and that. I wonder if anyone will start running a cable into their flats to run a heater or something come winter. In my case
they're on my neighbour's side.

[touchingcloth]

The problem with bypassing the meter is that the energy companies look at your usage and think "that ain't right" and then get on your case to let someone in to check it. Plus if it's a DIY bypass and you're in a communal block, it puts neighbours at risk of fire in the building. Can definitely see people doing it more as prices go up though.

It could definitely be a good tactic if arranged en masse. Get some friendly (to the cause) sparks on board to do a whole load of houses in short order, and it would cause chaos for the suppliers to try and check everyone's readings.

Possibly related would be organising for everyone who could do it cost-neutrally to switch suppliers and give dodgy final readings within the same month.

[Dr Rock]

How about a team of awesome hackers who give everyone a brilliant credit rating?

(Do me first)

[JaDanketies]

Isn't it funny that Martin Lewis became a multi-millionaire through being Britain's leading miser.

you don't get rich by spending money

[Dr Rock]

Refusing a smart meter

You don't have to accept a smart meter if you don't want one. If your supplier tells you that you must have one installed, contact the Citizens Advice consumer helpline.

[checkoutgirl]

78% of Liverpool residents – nearly 172,000 households – will fall into fuel poverty

That's fucking shocking, even for the tories and Boris. They must be delighted with that result. Foodbanks, protests and strikes are signs to them that it's working.

[Sebastian Cobb]

They'll sheapard people on to them by restricting dumb meter users to the shittest tariffs. Then once that's happened, boom, surge pricing.

[checkoutgirl]

surely have a duty to engage in mass non-payment as an act of 'I'm Spartacus' defence of those who simply will not be able to pay.

Ireland did this a few years ago when the government tried to change water to a pay for it model. We all said fuck that and just didn't pay. They had no choice other than to scrap it for the time being.

It is possible but not sure about the English having the balls to do it. Be good if they did.

[Dr Rock]

They'll sheapard people on to them by restricting dumb meter users to the shittest tariffs. Then once that's happened, boom, surge pricing.

Which we don't pay

[Zetetic]

I'm not saying mass refusal to pay shouldn't be an option on the table, but it does seem like an extremely high risk strategy when virtually no other forms of protest have been (seriously) attempted.

I think it's quite difficult to come up with other ways to affect the people that can control energy bills in ways that matter to them.

To threaten the government, you need a substantial threat to the re-election of many Tory MPs, which means mass mobilisation across huge swathes of very different bits of country, first to force Labour to loudly offer an actual policy on this and secondly to convince the Tories that this will change people's votes.

Difficult to affect the personal lives of energy companies shareholders and directors for all sorts of reasons. Even if there's a small number of them, even if they live in Britain, even if they aren't personally able to keep you at a distance... then the British state is now very well-equipped to prevent you interfering with their enjoyment of life.

As @bgmnts points out, non-payment is practically very easy in many ways for many people, in a way that getting them to a particular place at a particular time is not - and it has a benefit in itself to those who participate.

[touchingcloth]

How are people setup for paying their energy bills? Direct Debits, or standing orders? In either case, might be worth cancelling mandates and automated payments now so that you can switch to paying manually and make it a piece of piss to stop paying at a moment's notice if the word goes out that lots of people are planning to do the same.

[dissolute ocelot]

Just got a letter from Scottish Power (electricity supplier) asking if they have all my up-to-date contact info and date of birth. They don't. My details were transferred by the last person who lived here, so they have my name spelt wrongly and no other info.

And my gas bill is still in the name of the last occupier. I pay the bill when it comes, no direct debits for me. I'm all set for civil disobedience.

[shoulders]

I think it's quite difficult to come up with other ways to affect the people that can control energy bills in ways that matter to them.

To threaten the government, you need a substantial threat to the re-election of many Tory MPs, which means mass mobilisation across huge swathes of very different bits of country, first to force Labour to loudly offer an actual policy on this and secondly to convince the Tories that this will change people's votes.

Difficult to affect the personal lives of energy companies shareholders and directors for all sorts of reasons. Even if there's a small number of them, even if they live in Britain, even if they aren't personally able to keep you at a distance... then the British state is now very well-equipped to prevent you interfering with their enjoyment of life.

As @bgmnts points out, non-payment is practically very easy in many ways for many people, in a way that getting them to a particular place at a particular time is not - and it has a benefit in itself to those who participate.

The problem, as we are reading, as that people who can afford to pay and don't like being naughty will continue to pay, at the expense of people who also don't like being naughty but will be destitute if they pay. Solidarity is as strong as its weakest link.

The way I see it is we need to force energy back into public control by making the amount of administration caused through civil disobedience so onerous that no private company can process the debt retrieval or even the outsourcing of it.

[Icehaven]

We've got prepayment meters so if we don't pay we don't get any energy :(

[Dr Rock]

we need to force energy back into public control by making the amount of administration caused through civil disobedience so onerous that no private company can process the debt retrieval or even the outsourcing of it.

This should be in the Manifesto

[touchingcloth]

The way I see it is we need to force energy back into public control by making the amount of administration caused through civil disobedience so onerous that no private company can process the debt retrieval or even the outsourcing of it.

This is effectively what the student loan system is like if you leave the PAYE system and need to arrange the payments yourself. They can't force you to pay, so they send letters saying "failure to respond to this letter will result in us jolly well sending you another letter and then, you mark our words, sonny, a third letter".

[touchingcloth]

We've got prepayment meters so if we don't pay we don't get any energy :(

Team up with some neighbours and run a community generator powered with bilked diesel. Mad Max that shit.

[Buelligan]

I'd fucking love it if a movement among socially-conscious sparks started up where they were helping people safely divert their supply around their meters.

That guy used to live in our village.  Everyone loved him.  Still do.

[thelittlemango]

When a bunch of energy companies went bust and suddenly you were shunted on to a new provider I wondered what happened if the moment they went bust you moved house or moved to a different company. I spoke to a friend and they said in this situation their bills going forward had moved to a new provider but they had e-mails once a month from their recently defunct company asking to pay the outstanding balance and they were sorely tempted to just fuck them off.

I'm not sure how much they owed but wondered how long a bust company would continue to pursue something like this considering their precarious finances, I'm guessing it would just get to the stage where they sell their debt to someone else and they knock on your door.

[Buelligan]

Remember when the tories told the UK selling off Gas and letting the market rule energy was a great bunch of lads?

I hope some switched on sparks sort out the power supplies of MPs houses. Repeatedly.

[Zero Gravitas]

I'm guessing it would just get to the stage where they sell their debt to someone else and they knock on your door.

I suppose they're already in massive debt to the wholesaler, collections and issuing bills is pretty much their only way of paying that neither of which they can perform, so selling off your debt at reduced rates is pretty much the only thing they have left.

[Goldentony]

I hate this fucking shitstain country and all it's joke fucking hemophiliac tier corruption

[The Mollusk]

I got an email from my provider yesterday that included some changes to terms surrounding non-payment amongst other things

Yeah I got one from Bulb that was very transparently like BY THE WAY WE NOW UPHOLD THE RIGHT TO PERFORM CREDIT OR BACKGROUND CHECKS ON ANY CUSTOMER AND IF YOU STOP PAYING YOUR BILLS FOR SOME REASON WE WILL MAKE YOU PAY THE ACCUMULATED DEBT BACK IN FULL, SO DON'T FUCKING THINK ABOUT IT PAL this morning.

[Rizla]

I once stayed in a flat full of eco conscious peace freaks who had a highly illegal "black box" wired into the leccy meter that was so effective it made it run backwards, so the day before the man came to read the meter they'd have every fire in the place on full 3 bars and all the hairdryers blasting just to nudge the reading into the realms of "vaguely plausible". Fuck you, mother Gaia.

[poodlefaker]

Smart meters are essentially unreliable, and the fact that the govt pushed for them should be another Tory scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/04/why-are-so-many-smart-meters-turning-dumb-great-britain

[Cuellar]

I listened to a podcast once where a house in Wales kept getting huge electric bills and they were insistent it was ghosts doing it, and they got a guy round from the eletric and he couldn't explain the surges either and reluctantly conceded that yeah it was probably ghosts.

Can't remember if they ended up having to pay or not, but it could be worth a try.