Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 09:47:10 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Has Anyone Been Successfully Cancelled?

Started by lazyhour, August 07, 2022, 10:54:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Zetetic


lazyhour

Just to be crystal clear, I'm looking for cancelled (ie career-ended) people who have not been accused of illegal or borderline illegal stuff. This rules out sexual abuse allegations or getting your willy out.

The Ombudsman

That UKIP guy got cancelled because of something his then girlfriend said if I recall. Bolton something I think his name was.

JaDanketies

#33
Wiley (musician) got cancelled for being antisemetic on Twitter, has not recovered, and looks incapable of doing so since he's making a right mess of his personal life. Seems like Wiley is Grime's answer to Glinner; he's even making sockpuppet accounts to circumvent bans so he can continue being antisemetic on Twitter.

his current whereabouts are unknown after he broke into someone's house, assaulted them, sought legal aid cos he's not got any money any more, and then didn't appear for the court case. There's a warrant out for his arrest.  But that's not why he got cancelled, he got cancelled for being antisemetic on Twitter; this whole mess is post-cancellation.

However in this crazy woke age even being antisemetic on social media is borderline illegal and the police were slightly interested in it, and then a private prosecution was taken out against him for hate speech. But I believe it's close to what OP is looking for

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: lazyhour on August 08, 2022, 11:03:10 AMJust to be crystal clear, I'm looking for cancelled (ie career-ended) people who have not been accused of illegal or borderline illegal stuff. This rules out sexual abuse allegations or getting your willy out.


Corbyn, Marc Wandsworth, Lyndsey Ellis, Contrapoints, Alegra Stratton, Rachel Dolezal.....

John McWhorter had a list of people sacked from their employment for questioning elements of BLM (he is also seems to have some issues though in identifying people like Douglas Murray as a racist so some questions on his judgement). 

lazyhour

I don't recognize some of the names in your list, Trenter, so I'll have to Google...

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on August 08, 2022, 11:20:01 AMCorbyn

I know this one! But what do you mean?

QuoteMarc Wandsworth

Being kicked out of a political party doesn't feel synonymous with cancellation to me.

QuoteLyndsey Ellis

Don't know her. Online harassment by dickheads leading to her choosing to retire her online presence? Really shit for her, but isn't cancellation supposed to be done *to* you by other people?

QuoteContrapoints

Got some heat for pronouns statements and for featuring Buck Angel in a video, apologised and talked openly about her experience, is still a super-successful and beloved YouTuber. I'm gonna say... not cancelled.

QuoteAlegra Stratton

Political scapegoat/fall guy. Nothing remotely new about that.

"After a six-month hiatus, in June 2022, Stratton joined Bloomberg News as UK contributing editor, writing an afternoon newsletter called "Readout".[22]"

Not cancelled.

QuoteRachel Dolezal

The white woman who claimed she was black? This feels closer to the spirit of being 'cancelled', I guess. She seems to have mental heath problems and nearly went to prison for fraud so I think hers is a more complicated story.

As already mentioned upthread, there's clealy a big issue with people not really knowing (or agreeing on) what it means to be cancelled - if it even exists in the form we tend to understand.

lazyhour

Wiley is a pretty good example. It feels like he lost his career/status over stated opinions, which is I suppose what I'm mostly looking for.

JesusAndYourBush

Dapper Laughs.

Got crucified over a bad taste joke. After a few years away he appeared on Celebrity Big Brother in an attempt to rehabilitate himself but it failed and he hasn't been seen since.

Mr_Simnock

Quote from: lazyhour on August 08, 2022, 12:20:42 PMI don't recognize some of the names in your list, Trenter, so I'll have to Google...

I know this one! But what do you mean?

Being kicked out of a political party doesn't feel synonymous with cancellation to me.

Don't know her. Online harassment by dickheads leading to her choosing to retire her online presence? Really shit for her, but isn't cancellation supposed to be done *to* you by other people?

Got some heat for pronouns statements and for featuring Buck Angel in a video, apologised and talked openly about her experience, is still a super-successful and beloved YouTuber. I'm gonna say... not cancelled.

Political scapegoat/fall guy. Nothing remotely new about that.

"After a six-month hiatus, in June 2022, Stratton joined Bloomberg News as UK contributing editor, writing an afternoon newsletter called "Readout".[22]"

Not cancelled.

The white woman who claimed she was black? This feels closer to the spirit of being 'cancelled', I guess. She seems to have mental heath problems and nearly went to prison for fraud so I think hers is a more complicated story.

As already mentioned upthread, there's clealy a big issue with people not really knowing (or agreeing on) what it means to be cancelled - if it even exists in the form we tend to understand.

How can something 'exists in the form we tend to understand' if 'people not really knowing (or agreeing on) what it means'?


TrenterPercenter

Quote from: lazyhour on August 08, 2022, 12:20:42 PMAs already mentioned upthread, there's clealy a big issue with people not really knowing (or agreeing on) what it means to be cancelled - if it even exists in the form we tend to understand.

Exactly.  Cancelled doesn't actually mean anything, it has clear links with public shaming, stigmatism and group acceptance & rejection. To account for this you need a more flexible assessment of what it might mean which is why I mentioned the people that I did.

You've just applied your definition of what cancelled means which raises some interesting questions.

Is cancelling separate from political elements? Marc Wandsworth was accused on being anti-semitic this held consequences for his public image and access to political groups. 

Likewise why is cancelling having to have "something done" to you? What does done *to* you even mean? If a group of people cause someone so much distress that they quit their job then why would this not be part of cancel culture? Are only people that have direct control over someones access the only people that can ever truly cancel someone - this seems to ignore the absolute main feature of being cancelled i.e. the loss of public identity

What does it matter if some gets another job? or is still successful, is cancelling permanent?  Contrapoints has written about her attempted cancelling and like Ellis self censored herself for a time.  Why does this not count as being cancelled? (I'm just asking questions here because to me these are the actual interesting elements of all of this).  Is cancelling dependent on wellbeing? Something I am very concerned with as lots of people with mental health conditions suffer from group discrimination.

I think it is impossible to answer unless clarity and consistency is formed around what is meant by cancelling.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: lazyhour on August 08, 2022, 12:23:53 PMWiley is a pretty good example. It feels like he lost his career/status over stated opinions, which is I suppose what I'm mostly looking for.

'stated opinions' is one way of describing 'mad coke-fuelled antisemitic rant' I suppose.

But if that's the benchmark, I guess we could say Ron Atkinson had a few years of cancellation after using the n-word to describe Marcel Desailly on a hot mic.

Video Game Fan 2000

But multimillionaires like Chapelle and Louis CK are still successful despite cancelling! This must surely mean public shaming and the privatisation of the public sphere aren't things we should worry about. I read lots of articles about it in the Backbiting American Times. The evidence was overwhelming.

Because "cancelling" is a nebullous term, nothing counts as it therefore insidious ideologies can run rampant via social media and because no slamdunk definition can be given, it doesn't ever really happen.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Zetetic on August 08, 2022, 09:48:36 AMAlec Holowka?

The reactions around this were legitimately terrifying. Especially people preemptively posting "I better not read any bad takes" (takes, ffs) about it to their online friends like they were pruning a hedge.


Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on August 08, 2022, 12:35:44 PMDapper Laughs.

Got crucified over a bad taste joke. After a few years away he appeared on Celebrity Big Brother in an attempt to rehabilitate himself but it failed and he hasn't been seen since.

Seems he and another guy bought a nightclub and refurbished it (with it possibly also being a live venue) which opened in January 2020 - https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/social-media-personality-dapper-laughs-17572039 - I've no idea if it survived the pandemic but sheesh, that's some unfortunately timing and then some.

He also has an instagram account with 3/4 million followers, and posted this live date in June 2022 here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CeQI9qqjInh/?hl=en - when he was at Indigo at o2 doing a show, though in the post he moans that such shows are few and far between because he has to pay for it all, and bookers and promoters don't want to go near him.

Edit: Seemingly made a pilot in 2021, but I've no idea if it's one funded by his own money on shot on a digital camera, or if a proper media company funded it. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15599900/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_2
and he's supposedly done a week on a film with John Hannah - https://twitter.com/dapperlaughs?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

For the record I met Daniel a couple of times when he ran an open mic night near North Clapham tube in 2012(ish), and he was nice to me, and my female friend only has positive things to say about him, but everything he did under the Dapper Laughs name I sadly find abhorrent.

Edit: This makes me look like I'm obsessed with the man, but I just found it interesting that he's still trying to make a go of it all these years on.

Video Game Fan 2000


Proactive

Andy Grey and Richard Keys? I'm sure they're doing just fine in Qatar or wherever it is they ply their trade now, but they're permanently black balled from working here on any credible outlets. See also: Ron Atkinson.

All three are probably pretty early examples of being cancelled as we know it today, I guess?

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on August 08, 2022, 01:06:02 PM'stated opinions' is one way of describing 'mad coke-fuelled antisemitic rant' I suppose.

But if that's the benchmark, I guess we could say Ron Atkinson had a few years of cancellation after using the n-word to describe Marcel Desailly on a hot mic.

Richard Keys and Andy Gray also in this case.

oggyraiding

Professional wrestler Joey Ryan was big in the indies, outed as a wrong 'un, basically blacklisted from the pro wrestling community, got a job as an actor at Disneyland Jungle Cruise, got spotted by a wrestling fan while performing one of the Jungle Cruise shows, this spread on the internet, Disneyland fired him for being a wrong 'un because you can't have a sexual assault man performing for kids.

I feel a bit bad for him, is he going to get hounded out of every job now? Are there jobs where it's fine to be a sex pervert? Will he end up working on a supermarket deli counter like in that The Wrestler documentary?

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on August 08, 2022, 01:30:19 PMThe reactions around this were legitimately terrifying. Especially people preemptively posting "I better not read any bad takes" (takes, ffs) about it to their online friends like they were pruning a hedge.

Not familiar with this story but it resonates with my concerns.

People seem to have absolutely zero interest, care or empathy for the accuracy or wellbeing of the accused.  This is very different from disagreeing or having an argument with someone, this is about wanting lasting damage and disfigurement of a persons life and in many cases gaining personal gratification from it.

there is a lot of stuff going on here in regards to group think and facets of online communication (there is largely no consequence or inhibitory aspects of an individuals behaviour online) it is a highly toxic combination.

Video Game Fan 2000

What unsettles me about that is that a lot of reactions were understandable, due to the rage and horror of find out a beloved community member was an abuser, and so its very hard to unpick or make exactingly plain what it is about the reactions other than that that is so unsettling. The notoriety of the personalities involved made it worse, twitter made it worse, but it wasn't just about either of those things.

There are very many "soft" cancellations in academia where a career is quietly ended due to someone having unpopular views, that are unpopular in the blandest and least gossipable way possible, but they'll never come up in this context because naming names to prove a point on the internet would be pretty bastardly when attention is the thing everyone involved is trying to avoid and the person who lost a publication or position over a trivial disagreement usually just wants to move on.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on August 08, 2022, 01:50:51 PMRichard Keys and Andy Gray also in this case.


It feels like they found work a lot quicker than Ron (I think they were snapped up to give commentary on an Arabic sports channel fairly quickly I saw them knocking about on sports channels some pubs had with hooky subscriptions). My memory of how long Ron was away could be distorted by time though.

Memorex MP3

I think it's generally hypocrisy that winds up being the most cancellable stuff? Can't think of anyone who was more thoroughly canceled than the pwr bttm guy (it's like they've been erased from existence) and that seemed to be far more down to how they had positioned themselves as bastions of wokeness than anything around the particular allegations. Iirc since some stuff has come out that makes it seem like it was a bit of a coordinated hit job but it doesn't actually change anything if they weren't living up to the image they presented.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Memorex MP3 on August 08, 2022, 02:09:30 PMthe pwr bttm guy


i remember how thoroughly people enjoyed this. shudder.

felt bad from the other one, who everyone apparently liked?

Video Game Fan 2000

the other pattern is how often the ring leader of a righteous cancellation turns out to be the child of very weathly people but with a shit career themselves

Isabel Fall is the latest example of this turning out to be true.

FalknerHinton

Quote from: imitationleather on August 08, 2022, 08:42:32 AMI don't get why Rory McGrath was tolerated for so long.

A really horrific blister of a man.

My brother used to see him around Cambridge years ago. He was a right cunt apparently. McGrath that is, my brother's not that bad.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on August 08, 2022, 02:04:22 PMWhat unsettles me about that is that a lot of reactions were understandable, due to the rage and horror of find out a beloved community member was an abuser, and so its very hard to unpick or make exactingly plain what it is about the reactions other than that that is so unsettling. The notoriety of the personalities involved made it worse, twitter made it worse, but it wasn't just about either of those things.

So what is the deal with the Holowka.  Can you be quite precise about this case "that" is quite vague for someone not familiar with it all.

Video Game Fan 2000

A person who was known as former a target of harassment accused him of being abusive during a relationship and he killed himself. Some of the reactions afterwards weren't what you'd call tasteful and there was a lot of paranoia around people who might have the "wrong" opinion about it, often people who hadn't said a word on the topic other than RIP. Grisly business and not a community I'm a part of so I don't want to go further. But the "that" is how much of it negativity revolved around things that were entirely preemptive, about what could or should be said and related tea leaf reading.

Video Game Fan 2000

#58
Of course you'd say that, because when such and such happened you said ...

lazyhour

Quote from: Mr_Simnock on August 08, 2022, 01:00:17 PMHow can something 'exists in the form we tend to understand' if 'people not really knowing (or agreeing on) what it means'?



Well, quite! It's very confusing. I think there is a very vague, wooly understanding of what it means to be cancelled.

I might do a poll - have you been 'cancelled' if you lose your career and your public voice because you raped someone or called someone the n-word, for example? Because if that's cancelling then the term "cancel culture" means absolutely fuck-all. As if people have never fucked up and lost their careers or had the public turn against them before!

Is it just that we've not had a satisfying term before for people losing their career/platform? Like, "woke" is now just used in place of "political correctness". Did we have a comparable term before 'cancelled'? 'Disgraced'?