Starmer's Labour: Ghouls and Tools on the Ship of Fools

[pancreas]

This sort of gravity? I'll drink to that.

I see you edited your post. I'll reply to the new one.

[idunnosomename]

Nice.

[the Fallen]

This is Labour according to you is it.

I'll get my account deleted. Least I can go to bed feeling honest

[pancreas]

I don't know. Why does anyone go on a forum? You and some other poster had a fight about something I said and I feel terribly guilty about it, most of that was poppycock

She'd have a fight with some air if she was in the mood. I wouldn't worry about it.

Here I am in the Labour thread being hauled over the coals for a post treating this like its H.S Art

You're not being hauled over the coals. It's just difficult to understand you. And I honestly thought you were treating it like an HS Art post.

Because I told someone no, leaving a fucking political WhatsApp group is fucking worthless in anything I see as real.

I wasn't asking for anyone's approval. I joined all these WhatsApp groups because I was trying to help to organise a political alternative to this government and all its predecessors—including some of Labour—that have caused all your problems. I was in a whole load of them because I was driving down carfuls of people to door-knock for Labour in all those red wall seats we keep hearing about which went Tory. But since there is now zero point in my being involved in the Labour Party whatsoever, I have left these groups. And I believe that the people still in them I believe are wasting their time.

If you think your life would be better under Starmer, who welcomes Tories with open arms and proscribes the socialists who would want to help you, then I'm afraid I don't agree. Under Starmer, you would see a change of passengers on the gravy train. That is all.

.... At that point of realization I'd like to note my idea of society involves people working together for the greater good of all

Well, quite.

Sorry things are hard right now.

[Quote]

I'm really sorry about the circumstances you find yourself in Fallen, we all know this government is fucking revolting and probably all have our own tales of how they've negatively impacted our lives and those of our loved ones. But still, investing too heavily in this shitshow of a party turning things around seems a recipe for further disappointment. They had five years to back their last leader and help the downtrodden of this country but largely spent it sabotaging their own side and helping the Tories, over largely petty concerns and for selfish, careerist reasons. Not all of Labour obviously, and definitely not a lower levels where there's lots of nice folk who clearly mean well. When your Shadow Chancellor openly laughs at ambitious projects and policies the party previously unveiled to make life in Britain less hellish just a few short years ago, & Labour openly welcomes no-name Tory backbenchers into the fold after years of finding ever more petty ways of excluding long serving decent Labour people it doesn't feel like a good sign to me personally. And that's just today, there's a mountainous collection of warning signs accumulated already in the relatively short Starmer-era.

Labour might be marginally better should they get in, god knows you couldn't be much worse, but I wouldn't expect anything very radical or transformative. It just feels like realism to accept that, imo.

[idunnosomename]

I am sorry it is just genuinely horrible when a Labour chancellor openly laughs at people leaving party membership because she laughs them off as all antisemites.

utterly not true, shows how politics is just a game to this Oxbridge class of careerist Westminster idiot. people like that are no better in power than the idiots we have now

[Buelligan]

I don't know. Why does anyone go on a forum? You and some other poster had a fight about something I said and I feel terribly guilty about it, most of that was poppycock

Well don't feel guilty, it wasn't about you.  Nothing to do with you.  It was about Johnny getting fucked off with me getting fucked off with the shit-show that is the Labour Party at the moment. That irritation has been boiling between us for a long old time.  If you'd been here longer you'd know that. 

If you'd been here longer you'd probably also know how much time and love and work and solidarity and everything people like pancreas have given to the Party.  You'd understand the context of what he wrote.  You'd know who he is.

It's fine that you don't.  How could you?  But it's not his fault.

I'm sorry for your trouble.

[Johnny Yesno]

Not all of Labour obviously, and definitely not a lower levels where there's lots of nice folk who clearly mean well.

I feel this significant difference from the tories doesn't get enough attention.

[Buelligan]

Be fair Johnny, how many people in this thread talk about how shit all the members of the Labour Party are?  Maybe Walnuts or someone trollish but that's your lot.

We all know the vast majority of the membership are great eggs, why else would we have joined them? 

Problem is, Starmer and his cunt pals are working hard to remove every bit of influence the members have.  Until they're gone, one way or another, Labour is fucked.

[Paul Calf]

lol. lmao.

[Twit 2]

Really sorry to hear how you're feeling, the Fallen. I spent years destroying my mental health trying to help fucked over kids and families in a broken system, until I couldn't take anymore and my friends and family were pleading with me to walk away. When I stopped investing/caring/hoping so much, my life immmediately improved. Do your stint and then walk away from it, head held high. Do nice things with the people that matter to you, while you still can. This government is evil; this life is misery and suffering. But there are good things/people too, so crack on with them.

[SpiderChrist]

Really sorry to hear how you're feeling, the Fallen. I spent years destroying my mental health trying to help fucked over kids and families in a broken system, until I couldn't take anymore and my friends and family were pleading with me to walk away. When I stopped investing/caring/hoping so much, my life immmediately improved. Do your stint and then walk away from it, head held high. Do nice things with the people that matter to you, while you still can. This government is evil; this life is misery and suffering. But there are good things/people too, so crack on with them.

Sounds like the Fallen is caring for a relative. From experience, I know that walking away from that is a fuck sight harder than it appears.

[Johnny Yesno]

Be fair Johnny, how many people in this thread talk about how shit all the members of the Labour Party are?

That's not what I meant. I was referring to whether putting a cross in one box or the other has any meaningful difference. It clearly still does with regard to what kind of people make up the lion's share of the membership.

[Buelligan]

I'm really sorry, I do not understand what that means.

[Johnny Yesno]

In response to the Fallen's posts, there's been talk about not holding your nose and voting for Kieth's Labour because it's no different from the tories. I'm arguing that it is different because of the significant difference in the politics of the membership (granted that the now smaller membership has had its influence diminished recently).

[idunnosomename]

Good fucking grief Rachel Reeves here (bbc video)

https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1484088933474521092

At least Kier Starmer is kinda funny how fucking crap he is. Reeves is probably the blandest person imaginable. Put her next to a host like that who acts like a real person and she comes across like a bad replicant of Sir Kier

He's a Labour MP now!

We've changed! Vote for... us.

[Buelligan]

In response to the Fallen's posts, there's been talk about not holding your nose and voting for Kieth's Labour because it's no different from the tories. I'm arguing that it is different because of the significant difference in the politics of the membership (granted that the now smaller membership has had its influence diminished recently).

I don't think it's simply about them being no different from the tories, it's also (for me, more so) about them actively soaking up and neutralising any left energy. 

As long as they exist, they will continue to do this, something the tories cannot do, something that is far more damaging to any prospect of change for the better.  That's why people shouldn't hold their noses.  Because, by empowering them, they're enabling the very people who are blocking worthwhile change.

People like Rachel Fucking Reeves.

[Old Nehamkin]

Can't wait for the next 2-3 years of the Labour leadership making increasingly desperate, grovelling apologies for the unfortunate period where their party endorsed spending money on public welfare.

Hope they succeed in shaving away the last vestiges of policy difference between them and the Tories in time for the next election, because you need to win over Tory voters, don't you, and the only way to do that is to offer the same things that the Tories do. You may not like it, but that's the sensible, pragmatic path to electoral success. I mean, you do want to get the Tories out, don't you?

[Old Nehamkin]

Really though I do remain quite morbidly fascinated to see the actual form the next Labour GE campaign takes. It's going to be like a black hole. Just sub-nothing. Antimatter. I thought I'd already seen that with Milliband in 2015, but this is going to be so much worse that I can't comfortably picture it in my brain. It's like thinking about infinity.

[Buelligan]

If you can imagine infinity that's narrow, mean and small.

[greencalx]

I do hope there's an EdStone.

[Buelligan]

And a crane.

[idunnosomename]

I do hope there's an EdStone.

more like a Keir Bier

[Buelligan]

I'll drink to that!

[pigamus]

If you can imagine infinity that's narrow, mean and small.

The Apprentice: Series 15

[Pink Gregory]

more like a Keir Bier

That'd be a great thing to do if he wasn't a quisling weasel cunt.

A Kieth Bieth

[king_tubby]

Breakthrough, NIP, TUSC and LeftUnity have announced some kind of mutual support thing. I've not read the details yet.

[idunnosomename]

they're going in hard on this most sensible and boring person in the world just saying absolutely nothing at all arent they

also the change between A / An looks really shit, visually. why not at least do a right align

[Fambo Number Mive]

As you say, just meaningless buzzwords. No party is going to say "We're against innovation, trade, learning and industry"

[idunnosomename]

That'd be a great thing to do if he wasn't a quisling weasel cunt.

just to clarify by a bier I do not mean German for beer, but a movable frame, typically wheeled, on which a coffin or a corpse is placed to carry it to grave.