Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 12:15:52 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Joss Whedon

Started by Custard, February 11, 2021, 01:14:46 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

El Unicornio, mang

I think you're getting mixed up with the 1992 film (which she wasn't in). She was born in 1977, Buffy started in 1997.

Edit: sorry, I thought that was a Sarah Michelle Gellar quote, misread it.

Dayraven

QuoteShe was born in 1977, Buffy started in 1997
That's Sarah Michelle Gellar, the quote is from Michelle Trachtenberg, who joined the show later at 15.

Also, neither Trachtenberg or Benson appeared on Buffy at the same time as Carpenter (she'd moved over to Angel by then), so they seem to be seem to be talking about a larger pattern of bad behaviour and not only how Carpenter was treated.

Jumblegraws

Quote from: Zetetic on February 11, 2021, 05:10:14 PM
Because wasn't appropriate in the ways described by Carpenter, for example, and at the time Trachtenberg was a teenager (and therefore likely to find it harder to know how to push back against it). For example.
15-18.
I'm not sure I've understood your point, but Trachtenberg is referring to how Whedon acted towards her as a teenager, is she not?

Phil_A

Quote from: MojoJojo on February 11, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
This feels a bit weird. I don't want to defend him for being a cunt, but this is being presented like a "me too" thing but there's no actually claims of sexual abuse. It feels like there are rumours of sexual abuse but no one is willing to come forward so everything is skirting round it.

Psychological abuse is still abuse and definitely shouldn't be dismissed because it's not as bad as sex abuse. It can be just as mentally damaging in many cases.

All I know is there were rumours he was into field hockey players for years about his alleged affairs with women that worked on his shows, which were easy to dismiss as malicious fan gossip until he came clean about it in that ridiculously self-serving letter to his wife, which pretty much confirmed it was all true. So I'm not so sure there aren't darker things waiting to come out still.


Zetetic

Quote from: Jumblegraws on February 11, 2021, 05:17:34 PM
I'm not sure I've understood your point, but Trachtenberg is referring to how Whedon acted towards her as a teenager, is she not?
Yes, but I don't think that strongly implies sexual abuse.

His behaviour was clearly "not appropriate" towards people at times (without being sexual abuse).

Trachtenberg emphasises her current age (and bravery) as relevant to now being able to endorse/support accounts of that behaviour.

Zetetic

A fairly empty post, just to echo Bondov's sentiments:
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on February 11, 2021, 03:20:59 PMLet some people who aren't abusers make some TV shows and films instead, thanks.

Selfishly, I'm dismayed at the git for having done this producing something that I like and to other people who produced something I like.




I do hope Carpenter and others feel some relief at bringing this stuff out yet more clearly.

lipsink

Joss Whe-done.

EDIT: Dammit. It's been done.

Jumblegraws

Quote from: Zetetic on February 11, 2021, 05:23:43 PM
Yes, but I don't think that strongly implies sexual abuse.

His behaviour was clearly "not appropriate" towards people at times (without being sexual abuse).

Trachtenberg emphasises her current age (and bravery) as relevant to now being able to endorse/support accounts of that behaviour.
But why the "As a teenager. Not appropriate" etc? That seems quite pointed to me, I'm not really sure why she would emphasise it after already asserting her present age-enabled confidence. Am I the only one inferring from that that she experienced some sort of sexual harassment? I suppose it doesn't help that she's using very weird syntax there. 

Zetetic

I don't think it's ridiculous for you to wonder, particularly with other context, but I don't think the implication is very strong. (But I also know I'd rather things prove to be no worse for all sorts of reasons, so my intuitions are not be trusted.)

Pranet

Quote from: Zetetic on February 11, 2021, 05:26:49 PM
A fairly empty post, just to echo Bondov's sentiments:
Selfishly, I'm dismayed at the git for having done this producing something that I like and to other people who produced something I like.




Same here. Obviously been bits and pieces floating around- not sure how much of the latest statement from CC is actually new? But enough doubt you could, if you wanted and I suppose I did ignore it or think well, it's only one side of the story. But feels like this is going to get worse.

If it turns out Vic Marks is an arsehole that'll be the last of my faith in humanity gone.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

As someone who was in the Buffy fandom and adjacent to the Angel fandom (god my first online fandom. Remember Yahoo Groups?), I'm not sure if it was known that Whedon treated Carpenter shittily because of her pregnancy or if it was just believed that was the reason for her exit from Angel and her character's treatment on the show. It was certainly in the air. Whedon's feminist credentials were called into question back in 2002 and 2003 when his "feminist hero" spent a season in an abusive relationship with her stalker, culminating in him attempting to rape her. There were also Many Words about the lesbian couple on the show fulfilling the "Dead/Evil" trope.

Whedon is one of these creators who thinks that because he did something that was lauded as groundbreaking and inspirational and progressive twenty-five years ago, he never has to improve and anybody who questions him is wrong.

Custard

There's been rumours for years that he absolutely worked Sarah Michelle Gellar into the ground on Buffy. Ridiculously long hours and pressure, and she ended up blaming him for a lot of it. Of course that's just rumour at this point, but it's telling that she's not spoken to or wanted to discuss him for many years, and has now come out in public support of his accusers

I wonder if Eliza Dushku will comment in any way? She of course did a few different shows with him, and she's always spoken very highly of him. Who knows. Maybe he's just been a cunt to a select few. Doesn't excuse it in any way, of course

Quote from: Shameless Custard on February 11, 2021, 03:14:18 PM
The little phone symbol is automatic when you post a thread on your phone. But also because it looks like we're calling Batman to go and kick Joss Whedon's head in
Ta, thought it was a secret sex-pest symbol I wasn't understanding.


Never liked this cunt cause he looks like a bloated version of Emil from Robocop and his style of "witty bants" humour is insufferable and has infected most modern blockbusters. Fuck off forever please.

chveik

the fact that others have copied his style is hardly the problem here

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Something to bear in mind is that it's rarely a smart career move for an actor to badmouth a showrunner/director, especially one who's being feted by the press, industry and fans. This is why a lot of these allegations are only coming out now.

Chedney Honks

I remember my wife telling me she'd read that Buffy is consistently the most popular TV show among paedos. I'll never forget it because my mate fucking loved it. He married an older woman but that

Custard

I dunno about that, as everyone in it looks at least 35

Kelvin


JamesTC

Turns out Whedon was the big bad of every season.

Kelvin


Chedney Honks

Quote from: Shameless Custard on February 11, 2021, 06:56:38 PM
I dunno about that, as everyone in it looks at least 35

Sounds like paedo talk

Alberon

Quote from: Chedney Honks on February 11, 2021, 06:55:32 PM
I remember my wife telling me she'd read that Buffy is consistently the most popular TV show among paedos. I'll never forget it because my mate fucking loved it. He married an older woman but that

Exactly the sort of disguise a paedo would use!

pigamus

They're not prepubescent in Buffy though are they?

Custard

I think they wear school uniforms. Not that I was watching that closely. With a magnifying glass

Joking aside, I bought the first three seasons of Buffy a few years back, as I'd heard those were the good years. But I only lasted a couple episodes. Just not for me, I guess

But I still took screen grabs, etc etc!

Lord Mandrake

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on February 11, 2021, 06:42:10 PM
Something to bear in mind is that it's rarely a smart career move for an actor to badmouth a showrunner/director, especially one who's being feted by the press, industry and fans. This is why a lot of these allegations are only coming out now.

I don't have much sympathy for people who put career before dignity.

Custard

Maybe this isn't the time to discuss his work, but I thought he did a great job with the first Avengers film. I really liked Firefly. Dollhouse was alright. The Cabin In The Woods was fun, if overrated. And his run on the Astonishing X Men comic was superb

Pity he's a cunt

chveik


Custard

Maybe I was dressing them with my eyes :(

willbo

to be honest, I can't stand Whedon sassy dialogue where all the teenagers have the banter style and pop culture knowledge of 40 year old male comedians...

Magnum Valentino

Quote from: chveik on February 11, 2021, 07:51:46 PM
no they don't

One early memorable vampire who appears a few times in the first season does.