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What was The Best Decade?

Started by Noodle Lizard, December 27, 2021, 07:34:34 PM

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Johnny Textface

The idea of representing a culture or scene within the boundaries of ten years is gone thankfully. Strange idea tbh

easytarget

CaB consensus: The decade immediately before this fucking website started.

greenman

Honestly though the 90's suffers from almost everything viewed as "good" in the mainstream during it turning out to be shite...

End of History capitalist liberalism
Britpop
Blair and Clinton
E Business
Bland Tom Hanks style dramas targeting middle america

At least the 60's a lot of the good stuff is still viewed as good, more a decade that sold out afterwards rather than a decade that was already sold out and just did a decent job of covering it up at the time like the 90's. Maybe 90's comedy would have more of a case of being a long those lines, having some bite at the time before selling out massively.

shagatha crustie

Surprised not more people have picked somewhere between 50s-70s, certainly in Britain. I wasn't around to be fair, but that post-war pre-neolib period of generous state funding and social democracy seemed to produce a lot of good. Very little UK war involvement. People must have been sick of it though to go for Thatcher as hard as they eventually did.

Buelligan

It's just my opinion but that period was the adjustment (in the UK) between War & Empire Building to Peace and Building for the People or Somebody.  Nightmare fucking times for the Establishment.  Dangerous times.  All those decades they'd spent polishing the minds of the masses into directable cannon fodder for the Great British Project, suddenly a bit redundant.

That wartime solidarity of purpose, love of place, country, people, could so easily have been repurposed by some bastard into a unified and positive movement creating decent humane lives for ordinary people.  Had to be stamped on.  Repurposed by pushing sectarianism, racism, any ism that could cause a schism.

shoulders

#35
Nineties mate. As a British person aged between the years 30-50 this was an easy answer.

- More periods of peace/absence of conflict globally than most, possibly all of the century before it
- End of Thatcher and even with Major a sense of culturally turning a page
- Confident vibrant music scene which briefly genuinely became diverse and democratic, extraordinary when compared to how the mainstream music industry operated from the late 00s onwards essentially crushing the chance of the majority being exposed to different music and new concepts through new music
- Success of liberal values and the progressive diminishing of social conservativism which hasn't recovered since, even if economic liberalism hasn't brought about the same benefits, that's something positive
- Sense of national optimism, however misplaced, which hasn't been tangible since outside of sporting successes.
- Conservation movements evolve to mainstream recognition. A lot of the hard work to set off the scaling up of wind, solar etc happens.
- Hollywood cinema reaches a nice balance of traditional and modern special effects which briefly, up until The Fellowship of The Ring finds a nice balance.
- The 90s also briefly enjoys the Internet's early Wild West and CaB itself. Yes, it is slow to load and full of dodgy shit but it works fine by '98 and the weird and wonderful is present without the level of spying, data gathering and corralling down the same limited routes.
- Computer hardware and software develops beyond recognition in the space of a decade. By comparison, it takes around 20 years between 2000-2020 to achieve the same progression.
- The CD, and the DVD transform home music, cinema and TV habits
- Late 90s investment and economic growth seems to noticably improve services and surroundings.
- A sense of outward looking internationalism and federalism as opposed to the flag shagging nationalism that Blair created in another of his awful unintended consequences of using patriotism as a smokescreen for the horrors unleashed by his wars.
- Phones don't have a camera pointing at your face as you use them but do have a battery you can take out and replace

All the same, this happened when I was young. I missed out on the utopianism of the early 90s and wasn't genuinely part of any of the music scenes I love up to 96 as I was simply too young.

I wasn't 20 until 2006 and the period of 2006-2016 was some of the worst shit, turning me from a generally happy go lucky individual to the damaged bitter malcontent and misanthrope I am today.

There is no way anyone could conceivably say the 80s, while the 70s were too chaotic economically and the level of dysfunction ultimately paved the way for Thatcher.

flotemysost

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on December 28, 2021, 12:56:30 AMHmmm not damaged in the same way perhaps, they seem pretty disinterested in sexism or heteronormativity but in an "arsed cigs" kind of way.

I dunno, a lot of Gen Z seem far more clued up about things like gender identity and racist microaggressions (to use a couple of examples off the top of my head) in a way that many people of my generation simply wouldn't have thought to question at that age, even if we were directly affected by it.

This is a generation for many of whom the #metoo movement was established before they themselves would be starting to date/have relationships; meanwhile (to use another randomly chosen example), Section 28 was still a thing when I was at school, I can remember a teacher specifically saying she wasn't allowed to talk to us about gay relationships in one of our Year Six sex education classes, which is just really sad.

Also, with platforms like TikTok and Instagram it seems like it's far easier for young people to connect with others in a virtual "safe space" and share ideas about these things; I suppose my generation had stuff like Tumblr and LiveJournal, but that still always felt a bit more "fringe" than mainstream. Also not necessarily easy to engage with in quite the same way, if it was being accessed via a shared family PC on a dial-up connection (for those who had that privilege, even) rather than a personal smart device.

Plus there's far more visibility and positive representation of LGBTQ+ people and people of colour in popular culture than when I was growing up.

I know I'm definitely still in the process of identifying and unpicking the damage that's been done by the ideas about gender and relationships and race that I absorbed growing up, as are most of my friends, and it's not even like I grew up in an especially strict/conservative/hostile environment - so I'd say there's been a definite shift since then. Not to say those problems have gone away of course, but it does feel like there are more resources available for younger people to discuss, educate themselves and question things these days, at least.

holyzombiejesus

I guess it depends what age you are in that decade. I've said on here before that the late 70s and 80s were a brilliant time to be a kid. Wouldn't have liked to have been an adult then though.
Think the 90s we're quite vile, myself. Laddism, dancey shite, cocaine. Not suited to some miserabilist who hated leaving his bedsit. Despite having a 'Labour' government in charge, I've always felt it to be quite a Thatcherite decade.

Quote from: shoulders on December 28, 2021, 10:24:52 AMThere is no way anyone could conceivably say the 80s

I thought that the 80s were great, but then it was my childhood decade, so I didn't have to worry about the Bad AIDS, the Nicaraguan Civil War, or the European butter mountain.

For me, it was mostly just arsing around in the woods getting covered in mud, riding my bike and playing football. There was enough technology for a kid to have a bit of fun, but it was still just something in the background. The music seemed good at the time - in hindsight a lot of it was absolute shite, but quite a bit of it was great. You could still buy quite a lot for a paltry amount of money. Honestly, I'm on the verge of writing some bad boomer-style poetry about the yummy milk on the cream just thinking about it.

holyzombiejesus

The 80s had ace kids TV, pop was good fun and an era of classic TOTPs, alternative comedy coming to the fore, classic indie stuff, Channel 4, relatively cheap home computer boom and videos! Politically it was shitty but there was a strong counter-culture that I don't see any more. Even stuff like vegetarianism and foreign cinema felt like it was starting to become more mainstream as the decade progressed. It was a really great time to move through your teens.

Jasha

Take off your rose tinted specs and you'll realise the 90's were really quite shit

Quote from: ZoyzaSorris on December 27, 2021, 11:47:57 PMWow - that's some proper complacent centrist dad shite right there. No wonder you come out with some of the bobbins you do in the politics threads.

Christ, all you seem to do is look for my comments and call me a 'centrist dad', despite the fact that there's sod all wrong with what I wrote.  Poverty has come down worldwide decade by decade - but as it doesn't relate to how shit your life is, you don't care about it.

Just ignore my posts in future, for fuck's sake. It's easy to do.

touchingcloth

I quite enjoyed the sixties as the decade where Kennedy chose to go to the moon and do the other things, which was quite an understated way of describing having his nut blown off.

TrenterPercenter

#43
Quote from: flotemysost on December 28, 2021, 10:32:40 AMI dunno, a lot of Gen Z seem far more clued up about things like gender identity and racist microaggressions (to use a couple of examples off the top of my head) in a way that many people of my generation simply wouldn't have thought to question at that age, even if we were directly affected by it.

Again I'm not sure, this is complicated and very interesting, Gen Z have arrived in a world that is less racist and sexist; this isn't something have they created but have experienced due to the efforts of generations before.  I don't want to be bleak because as someone who works with YP a lot I can say there are some incredible YP out there and they are the future but that doesn't necessarily mean that in the main YP are less damaged for example YP diagnosable MH conditions have increased and are increasing still, we've recently gone from 1 in 8, to 1 in 6 with a diagnosable MH condition (caveats abound on this for a number of reasons but the trend is clear).

I guess your mileage may vary but things like race relations and sexism were hot topics in the 80s and 90s with a clear rejection AND inroads into popular culture.  Post towers we experienced a spike in racism towards the south asian community which then leads us into an increasing of hostility towards immigrants and inwards nationalistic view which leads us up to today.  I would be cautious in talking about Gen Z as a homogenous group because they aren't and there are open themes of apathy and rejection of things like "political correctness" in some elements of the culture.  If you look at the cohort studies Gen Z are more unhappy with life, relationships, their appearance and generally more lonely than even millennials. 

bgmnts

Have mental health problems increased or has the scope for what is considered a diagnosable mental health conditon widened?

Presumably if you were depressed or anxious up until about 30 years ago you just got on with it. Unless you were eating your own faeces or stabbing randoms in the park.

Jittlebags

Any decade when Ron Mael still had his Hitler tash.

flotemysost

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on December 28, 2021, 01:52:40 PMAgain I'm not sure, this is complicated and very interesting, Gen Z have arrived in a world that is less racist and sexist; this isn't something have they created but have experienced due to the efforts of generations before.

Oh definitely - I wasn't suggesting that younger generations have necessarily created this all by themselves (not to take credit away from the many brave, creative and pioneering young spokespeople for these issues); more that they're (to an extent) reaping the benefits of the work of previous generations, as you say (hence my slight jealousy - but at the same time I can't begrudge them their future happiness and security, obviously).

And I'm definitely not disagreeing that there are many, many reasons for the younger generation (who of course aren't a homogeneous mass, as you say) to be unhappy, even taking into account the increased likelihood of existing MH issues being diagnosed, as bgmnts points out. For many people the economic future is incredibly bleak; even for lots of relatively comfortably-off younger people, the lifestyle their parents would have enjoyed is likely out of their grasp (though that goes for Millennials as well); for everyone, the future of the planet is basically fucked; and even having greater awareness and understanding of the social issues mentioned before - although not a bad thing - can come with its own psychological toll.

And of course there are still abusive parents/carers, abject poverty, oppressively restrictive upbringings etc., those things haven't gone away.

I'm definitely not suggesting everyone under the age of 25 lives in some sort of inclusive utopia free from rigid societal norms and prejudice these days, but it does seem there's been some tangible positive change - it's very complex though as you say.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: flotemysost on December 28, 2021, 03:07:06 PMI'm definitely not suggesting everyone under the age of 25 lives in some sort of inclusive utopia free from rigid societal norms and prejudice these days, but it does seem there's been some tangible positive change - it's very complex though as you say.

I think what I'm suggesting is that these positive tangible changes fought for by previous generations might not be viewed in quite the same way as Gen Z if economic improvements don't materialise.  They will be seen as superficial socio-political replacements for economic change and will become devalued (we are already seeing some of this happen).

We can find ourselves in a situation of "constant cultural war" with things being simultaneously better and worse in the past but always worse in the present.

greenman

When your talking about sexism, racism, trans-phobia, etc though what often seems to stand out for me is that the group of people who have fallen increasingly into these things arent the young or the old but rather the middle aged, men in their 30's and 40's really seem like they are the backbone of these movements on the net to me.

I do wonder whether part of that isnt down to growing up in the 90's, an era I think you could argue aggressive masculinity was culturally more prominent than the years either side of it. Movements like grunge and britpop partly reactions to perceived over effeminacy of precious movements and a good deal of cinema like Guy Ritchie or Tarantino along the same lines.

shoulders

It may seem that way to you online (personally I find they are more in the 55-70 category, in fact life increasingly seems to revolve around people from that age category being loud, obnoxious and intolerant then complaining about intolerance whenever they are challenged)


You have to bear in mind just how disproportionately visible more activist elements are on any platform and how having the entire world interacting throws out your centre in terms of what represents a middle ground opinion.

shoulders

Quote from: TheBrownBottle on December 28, 2021, 01:25:42 PMChrist, all you seem to do is look for my comments and call me a 'centrist dad', despite the fact that there's sod all wrong with what I wrote.  Poverty has come down worldwide decade by decade - but as it doesn't relate to how shit your life is, you don't care about it.

Just ignore my posts in future, for fuck's sake. It's easy to do.

Slow improvements in absolute poverty amount to absolute jack shit when you consider the mind blowingly abhorrent starting point which is criminal total shitting in a bucket destitution, when you consider that this could be alleviated worldwide this year purely at the whim of some tyrannical tech billionaires (but won't be) and that developed countries choose to operate a system where a percentage of their own citizens starve to serve as a visible warning to the others to keep showing up in their shitty minimum wage job or their exhausting demoralising middle income one.

The fact you thought any of Zoyza's post was about his own life, or disregards the 'improvements' because of that is telling.

chveik

Quote from: TheBrownBottle on December 28, 2021, 01:25:42 PMChrist, all you seem to do is look for my comments and call me a 'centrist dad', despite the fact that there's sod all wrong with what I wrote.  Poverty has come down worldwide decade by decade - but as it doesn't relate to how shit your life is, you don't care about it.

Just ignore my posts in future, for fuck's sake. It's easy to do.

"centrist dad" was a pretty nice qualifier for your bullshit

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: greenman on December 28, 2021, 03:34:40 PMWhen your talking about sexism, racism, trans-phobia, etc though what often seems to stand out for me is that the group of people who have fallen increasingly into these things arent the young or the old but rather the middle aged, men in their 30's and 40's really seem like they are the backbone of these movements on the net to me.

I think you are right.  That is why I would advise caution in overly stating the liberal attitudes of Gen Z.  They are expected to be liberal because generations before have made being illiberal around isms unacceptable.  I'm not saying this is bad but it is important that YP understand why the isms are unacceptable not just that they aren't and you will be cancelled if you repeat them.  You can see spark points occurring for non-inclusive forms of socio-political discourse, which is what VGF2K and myself have been trying to point out.  A corporatised approach to problems centralises them and actually disempowers communities, whilst perversely creating a worldview on reductionist approaches to race, sex and gender.  It is really important that solutions, proposed to the public stack up, that there is an empathetic, humanistic and shared reasoning that can be presented and explained; otherwise you are just creating groups to shout at each other on Twitter (something that is actual business as usually for capitalists).

Agree with your stuff in the 90s.  It was alright but it was the rebirth of lad and then later the ladettes which to my mind always looked like a very white privileged middle class rebellion against nothing (fuck you mum and dad for this financially secure future you've given me!!).  I went to school with a load of trusties that suddenly started talking like "dey is from da streets yeh", dressing themselves boho and trying to get themselves arrested for smoking weed; whilst actual kids from the estate were wearing (admittably knock-off) premium brands and trying to dress themselves up so they didn't look poor.

It's pretty mad when you think about it.

gib

suggest a better one or it's the 90s

bgmnts

Quote from: shoulders on December 28, 2021, 03:55:41 PMSlow improvements in absolute poverty amount to absolute jack shit when you consider the mind blowingly abhorrent starting point which is criminal total shitting in a bucket destitution, when you consider that this could be alleviated worldwide this year purely at the whim of some tyrannical tech billionaires (but won't be) and that developed countries choose to operate a system where a percentage of their own citizens starve to serve as a visible warning to the others to keep showing up in their shitty minimum wage job or their exhausting demoralising middle income one.

The fact you thought any of Zoyza's post was about his own life, or disregards the 'improvements' because of that is telling.

True. But doesnt this apply to every decade before it and it is sliiiiiightly better by a few degrees?

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: gib on December 28, 2021, 04:58:03 PMsuggest a better one or it's the 90s

Oh you want to actually entertain this shit for cunts idea about best decades then.  Well of course it is obviously the 80s because comedy reached it pinnacle when Del Boy fell through the bar.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: bgmnts on December 28, 2021, 01:55:55 PMHave mental health problems increased or has the scope for what is considered a diagnosable mental health conditon widened?

Presumably if you were depressed or anxious up until about 30 years ago you just got on with it. Unless you were eating your own faeces or stabbing randoms in the park.

This is a very very VERY very VERY very VERY common question (and a good one but one that gets asked all the time whilst other areas just get accepted as worse).

The answer is very unlikely.  We do not just compare cohorts for 30 years ago to now we look at contemporary trends, admissions, diagnostic surveys and use validated measures to track this stuff.  For example the 1 in 8 increased to 1 in 6 in the last 2 years.  Data was poor prior to the last 20 years but since then we have been looking at lots of different ways of measuring and triangulating the data from lots of different source and it all suggests to a decline in MH for young people.

That might not just be feature of culture however it could be a feature of loss of infrastructure that promoted better MH for young people (youth centres, less demanding working conditions for parents). 

I hate break it to people but I work for a hospital that has been seeing increasing levels of serious tooth decay (i.e. adolescents losing adult teeth at ages they should not be losing them) and malnutrition in youth admissions over the last decade.  I haven't done the maths but I think we can assume some correlation between this and poor mental health. 

Perhaps they just need to pull their teeth together.

Custard

#57
Quote from: Paul Calf on December 27, 2021, 07:41:17 PMThe 90s were fucking brilliant. The Wall had fallen and the towers were yet to fall, the drugs were good and happy and everyone got to dive in if they wanted to.

I was in my 20s for most of the 90s, which probably helped colour my opinion of it.

Yeah, I'd go with the 90s too. The world still seemed fun, jumpers for goalposts, etc

Some of my favourite comedy ever - The Fast Show, Royle Family, Shooting Stars, Partridge, The Day Today, Bottom, Fist Of Fun, Harry Enfield, Game On, etc

The music was great. The last great decade, for me.

Was bought a Gameboy by my parents, and it's still one of the best days of my life. Tetris on the toilet, gorgeous

SNES multiplayer fun with friends. Maybe have five minutes of fresh air each day.

Pity there were so many shellsuits, but small gripes

Crenners

Can't beat the 2000s for animal collective and hot dry noodles all day every day 😂😂😂

Pinball

Well, the roaring 1920s were fun for some, the 1960s were cool, but overall I'd go with 1990s first place, and 1960s second place. 911 ensured that the 2000s onwards were awful, for obvious surveillance, war & neocon reasons, so it has to be 1990s or earlier, and for all the reasons stated it's 1990s for me.