Refusing to pay energy bills

[Bernice]

As we know, the country's fucked and the useless shites at the top seems too busy squabbling about who should go in what toilet and how best to feed a gypsy into a woodchipper to do a fucking thing about it. With energy prices set to rise again this autumn, there's going to be a huge number of people who will have to choose between eating and staying warm. According to this guardian article "78% of Liverpool residents – nearly 172,000 households – will fall into fuel poverty if the energy price cap rises to £3,000 as forecast in October."

Human 15% off voucher Martin Lewis, not exactly noted for his radicalism, has been raising the spectre of mass refusal to pay and, frankly, I'm beginning to think it's the only moral position. Even those of us who will be able to afford to survive this – and I'm just about in that category myself – surely have a duty to engage in mass non-payment as an act of 'I'm Spartacus' defence of those who simply will not be able to pay.

I don't want to romanticise this as the coming of revolutionary proletarian class-consciousness. I just don't see how this winter can possibly go ahead without huge civil disobedience and probably unrest.

Am I wrong?

EDIT: There is already a campaign afoot called Don't Pay UK which is aiming to get a million people signed up to a pledge to cancel their direct debits from October

[Sebastian Cobb]

It doesn't sound like a bad idea. I got an email from my provider yesterday that included some changes to terms surrounding non-payment amongst other things, that made me wonder if they're worried about this sort of thing gaining traction.

I've wrapped this in spoiler tags as it's a bit long and boring and I want to save people scrolling through it more than once.

Spoiler alert

Important changes

We may work with a credit reference agency or ask you for identification
It's important we know who our members are. This is to make sure we're offering the right support, and charging the right person for the energy they're using. If we think there's a problem, or we suspect fraud, we may ask for proof of identification (like a passport or tenancy agreement), to make sure we've got things right.

If your account is in debt and you move out without letting us know, we may also work with a credit reference agency. They will help us understand who has moved in, so we can close your account and recover the debt. We may charge you for the cost of recovering your debt.

More information:

Get help if you're struggling to pay
Let us know if you're moving home
We'll give you at least 5 working days' notice of any changes to your Direct Debit
If you pay for your energy by Direct Debit and we need to change your payments to cover the cost of your energy, we'll give you at least 5 working days' notice. Previously, this was 10 working days' notice.

If you stop paying for your energy, we may charge you for the cost of recovering your debt
If you stop making payments for your energy, we'll try to get in touch with you to understand how we can support you. If we don't hear back from you or receive a payment, we may need to install a prepayment (top up) meter, or take legal action to recover the debt. If that happens, we may ask you to pay the cost.

We can help if you're finding your payments hard to manage. It can feel overwhelming to fall behind on your payments, but there are ways we can help.

We may refuse to refund credit if your account is not up to date
We take payments in advance, and ask you to keep at least 1 month's worth of credit in your Bulb account. If you have more credit than this and ask us to refund it, your account must have an active payment method (like a Direct Debit) and a recent meter reading. If our calculations show you will have credit in your account at the end of the next month, we will refund the remaining credit from your Bulb account, unless we believe it's fair and reasonable not to refund it or we have the legal right to refuse.

If you ask us to work on your meter, we may charge you
If you ask us to work on your meter, for example, to move or change it, we may charge you for the cost of this work. Find out more about getting your meter changed, removed or tested.

If you're a Bulb Business member
If your business account has more than 1 month's worth of energy debt, we may stop your switch to a new supplier until this debt is paid.

We'll always give you reasonable notice if we change our T&Cs or our prices
Previously, we were more specific, and our terms said '30 days' notice'. Now, if we make any changes to our terms and conditions or our prices, we'll always give you reasonable notice. You can always see our latest terms and conditions online, along with details of our tariffs.

Your prices aren't changing, only the Terms and Conditions
If you don't agree to the new T&Cs, you can start a switch away by 20 September 2022 to avoid them. If your account is in debt when you start the switch, we'll give you another 30 working days to repay the debt, and we'll honour your old T&Cs until you leave us. You will not be able to switch away until the debt on your account is paid.

We always try to make sure our terms are written in a clear and straight-forward way. If there's anything that is difficult to understand, please let us know.

[close]

[bgmnts]

No I think this would be an amazing idea. Would they arrest everyone who didnt pay?

[JamesTC]

It'll be the Poll Tax of 2023.

[robhug]

I've been saying this for a few months, the next energy price rise will double what your paying now and will coincide with energy firms posting their half yearly profits. Get some bets down on serious civil unrest.

Have you seen the profit Shell are posting on the back of these record fuel prices? 3x last year and that's despite Putin costing them 4 billion.

[JaDanketies]

No I think this would be an amazing idea. Would they arrest everyone who didnt pay?

No cos it's a civil thing. I don't see any reason why the energy companies won't do what they normally do with non-payers - send threatening letters, and then transfer the debt to bailiffs - just because there's 10 million people to do it to.

And frankly expecting private multinationals involved in the distribution of essential utilities to be interested in anything other than squeezing as much cash from you as they're allowed to is foolhardy. Nobody's going to inspire ethics in the CEO. Don't see how this will do owt other than maybe some EON TV adverts with smiling faces on them. Nationalise it

[touchingcloth]

Does anyone know what the socioeconomic distribution of prepayment meters is? My gut feeling is that they are more common in lower income households, and that there's a correlation between the people who are more able to pay and those who are literally able to refuse payment.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Does anyone know what the socioeconomic distribution of prepayment meters is? My gut feeling is that they are more common in lower income households, and that there's a correlation between the people who are more able to pay and those who are literally able to refuse payment.

Poorest people pay the most in energy per unit and prepay meters are one of the reasons for that.

However landlords like them as it reduces chances of someone running up a debt at the property and scarpering, however legally they can't force you to have one - you can swap it out but you might have to pay for the installation of a normal meter and reinstallation of the old one, plus any 'damage' to the fixings if any. Looking at the pricelist of my supplier that would be a few hundred quid.

[Uncle TechTip]

No I think this would be an amazing idea. Would they arrest everyone who didnt pay?

Unlikely but the threat of damaged credit rating could be a tough one. And fuck it if I'm having a top-up meter installed. Again it would need literally everyone to join in to avoid singling you out.

The mass consumption strike that was organised a while back is probably a safer idea.

[Dr Rock]

I'm not paying mine. Viva the revolution.

[shiftwork2]

I'm not paying mine. Viva the revolution.

Still got that torch.

[The Mollusk]

I've been fucking bang up for this for a while now.

[touchingcloth]

So refusing payment in the case of those households really becomes rigging up systems that can bypass their meters.

I'd fucking love it if a movement among socially-conscious sparks started up where they were helping people safely divert their supply around their meters. It'd massively inconvenience the energy companies to have to correct all of that, and people could run a few token units through their meters somehow to be able to pay a few pennies each month and avoid full no payment provisions being made.

I guess instead of refusing payment, people who don't have smart or prepayment meters could submit readings of 1 unit each month, and stick the money they would otherwise use to pay the bills in savings. It would take them ages to get round to sending people out to correct the readings, at which point you could claim an honest mistake in submitting your readings due to the dials being hard to read - oh, curse these metal eyeballs of mine - and use your savings to pay the adjusted bill.

[robhug]

Does anyone know what the socioeconomic distribution of prepayment meters is? My gut feeling is that they are more common in lower income households, and that there's a correlation between the people who are more able to pay and those who are literally able to refuse payment.

There was a caller on LBC a few months back when the cap last went up, who said he rang up his provider as he was in a perilous financial position to see what assistance they could offer - they couldn't and within 10 days an engineer had popped over and installed a pre-payment meter which not only is a pain in the arse but is also about 5% more expensive to run. Don't go letting them know you might not be able to afford your bill!

[Uncle TechTip]

The standing charge is a lot more than the unit cost, you'll still be on the hook for that.

[Dr Rock]

Still got that torch.

No, I lost it. But I have a new one. They won't be able to cut my electricity off because the massed ranks of revolutionaries will surround my house when they try to do it.

[Bernice]

So I'm a lazy bastard and didn't bother to do a proper Google before I made this. There is already a campaign afoot called Don't Pay UK which is aiming to get a million people signed up to a pledge to cancel their direct debits from October. I'll edit this into my first post now.

[touchingcloth]

There was a caller on LBC a few months back when the cap last went up, who said he rang up his provider as he was in a perilous financial position to see what assistance they could offer - they couldn't and within 10 days an engineer had popped over and installed a pre-payment meter which not only is a pain in the arse but is also about 5% more expensive to run. Don't go letting them know you might not be able to afford your bill!

Can they do that unilaterally?

When I lived in the UK they were constantly trying to arrange access to install a smart meter, but I weirdly and unfortunately had other commitments during every single time they proposed to send an engineer round during. Except for that one time they sent an engineer round and I weirdly and unfortunately was on the toilet having a significant bowel movement that meant I couldn't leave to go and answer the door until weirdly and unfortunately my defecations finished mere seconds after they had driven away.

[shoulders]

As we know, the country's fucked and the useless shites at the top seems too busy squabbling about who should go in what toilet and how best to feed a gypsy into a woodchipper to do a fucking thing about it. With energy prices set to rise again this autumn, there's going to be a huge number of people who will have to choose between eating and staying warm. According to this guardian article "78% of Liverpool residents – nearly 172,000 households – will fall into fuel poverty if the energy price cap rises to £3,000 as forecast in October."

Human 15% off voucher Martin Lewis, not exactly noted for his radicalism, has been raising the spectre of mass refusal to pay and, frankly, I'm beginning to think it's the only moral position. Even those of us who will be able to afford to survive this – and I'm just about in that category myself – surely have a duty to engage in mass non-payment as an act of 'I'm Spartacus' defence of those who simply will not be able to pay.

I don't want to romanticise this as the coming of revolutionary proletarian class-consciousness. I just don't see how this winter can possibly go ahead without huge civil disobedience and probably unrest.

Am I wrong?

Hate the small mindedness of Lewis but I would fully back mass refusal to pay.

[touchingcloth]

Tell you what else people should be refusing to pay wherever possible: student loans.

[Kankurette]

I can't repay mine anyway. I don't earn enough. Freelancing is not the most reliable of jobs. I don't know if I'll die in debt or what.

[Vodkafone]

Can they do that unilaterally?

Basically yes, because your power provider owns the meter. It's a cunt's trick really, because it gives them the right to enter your home to access their property, albeit if you refuse they will have to get an injunction, but ultimately they can force their way in (as can you landlord to do gas and electric safety checks, but again only after getting an injunction).

Neither do you have a right to a 'standard' meter where you pay quarterly in arrears, because this is credit and a power provider can refuse to install one if you fail a credit check (they are sometimes known as credit meters). Which means you pay more per unit, which makes you worse off and therefore less likely to repair your credit rating.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I thought Cameron era tories did something to make credit meters more accessible to people with poor credit.

[touchingcloth]

Basically yes, because your power provider owns the meter. It's a cunt's trick really, because it gives them the right to enter your home to access their property, albeit if you refuse they will have to get an injunction, but ultimately they can force their way in (as can you landlord to do gas and electric safety checks, but again only after getting an injunction).

Isn't it National Grid who owns the meter? I've switched providers many, many times, but the meters never change, they just ask for the code that's printed on it.

[Dr Rock]

They won't be able to force their way in anywhere when the people's army have strung 'em up from a lamppost.

[madhair60]

I've been fucking bang up for this for a while now.

Yeah, we've been fucking bang up for this for a while now.

[Dr Rock]

Smart-Reader Installers want to decide which side of history they want to be on. Also if they like having dog-poo shoved through their letter boxes.

[Kelvin]

I'm not saying mass refusal to pay shouldn't be an option on the table, but it does seem like an extremely high risk strategy when virtually no other forms of protest have been (seriously) attempted. It's all good and well telling people not to pay, but the companies will inevitably come down hard on many individuals in order to prevent it happening again; fines, credit fucked, legal action, whatever options they have available to them. 

Again, that's not to say it shouldn't be an option, but it really feels like no other alternatives have been attempted or co-ordinated first - and frankly, in the absence of a principled opposition party or media, I again find myself frustrated that the leading lights/leadership of the Left have proven themselves unable to organise a pissup in a brewery over a matter so mainstream and so widely accepted by the public. Are there truly no better ways to take action than this? 

[The Mollusk]

Yeah, we've been fucking bang up for this for a while now.

YEAH! WE ... oh, you bloody got me! You bloody rascal!

[shiftwork2]

Isn't it funny that Martin Lewis became a multi-millionaire through being Britain's leading miser.