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Forums => Oscillations => Topic started by: TheMonk on April 24, 2021, 04:49:46 AM

Title: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: TheMonk on April 24, 2021, 04:49:46 AM
What popular music might not pass muster in these days of cancellation?
I’m on a Bowie bender and re: China Girl, he puts on a cod Japanese accent in the Live At Glastonbury performance which would raise alarm bells these days I reckon.
Also in the video he does this.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/172/952/f7e.gif)
Over to you.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Glebe on April 24, 2021, 05:29:57 AM
Morrissey leaves thread quickly.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: JohnnyCouncil on April 24, 2021, 05:57:07 AM
What popular music might not pass muster in these days of cancellation?
I’m on a Bowie bender and re: China Girl, he puts on a cod Japanese accent in the Live At Glastonbury performance which would raise alarm bells these days I reckon.
Also in the video he does this.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/172/952/f7e.gif)
Over to you.

On the Glastonbury recording doesn't he also do it as:

My little China girl says
"Mr David, just you shut your mouth"

Could have imagined this though.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: markburgle on April 24, 2021, 06:21:26 AM
Sting's affected rasata-mon accent, and the coloured girls going do do doo (not really racism though, just goalposts have moved since then)
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: SpiderChrist on April 24, 2021, 07:29:33 AM
Does use of the N word in Oliver’s Army and Holiday In Cambodia count?

Also: Dreadlock Holiday is a bit fucking rum, innit?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on April 24, 2021, 07:34:52 AM
Walk Like An Egyptian started to date quite badly once the news stories about street vendors self-immolating emerged in the Arab Spring, yet weirdly remained intact throughout the Mubarak regime. Funny cultural parallel.

Then just when you're thinking they're going to stop they have a pop at the Japanese and Chinese

Quote
All the Japanese with their yen
The party boys call the Kremlin
And the Chinese know (oh whey oh)

You Japanese with your yen n that



Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 24, 2021, 08:06:37 AM
Stolen yen. Japanese have criminals gangs too
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: idunnosomename on April 24, 2021, 09:38:47 AM
I got a doctor! To take a picture! So I can look at you from inside as well!
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: pigamus on April 24, 2021, 09:49:27 AM
Well that’s more medical malpractice isn’t it
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: A Hat Like That on April 24, 2021, 10:02:50 AM
The 1998 world cup official song, Carnival de Paris, uses a different instrument for each competing nation.

Japan?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/AsianRiffSheetMusic.png/450px-AsianRiffSheetMusic.png)

and a gong

ah so
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on April 24, 2021, 10:13:16 AM
On the Glastonbury recording doesn't he also do it as:

My little China girl says
"Mr David, just you shut your mouth"

Could have imagined this though.

The BBC footage cuts to a happy smiling Japanese, or possibly Korean, looking woman when he does that line.

https://youtu.be/lBNBTmlvNio?list=PLkXR7g3EdPC_YlKw7Zm0IzRsu02hvlXxA&t=182

NOT A RACIST.


Bonus racism.

(https://i22.servimg.com/u/f22/19/92/48/87/screen98.png)


Oh, and 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd5ztTz1564

Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: bgmnts on April 24, 2021, 10:15:29 AM
Quote from: Lou Reed
And the colored girls say
"Doo do doo do doo do do doo..."
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Kankurette on April 24, 2021, 11:48:22 AM
Ray Davies' weird accent in Apeman. Actually, whatever the hell the singer's accent is in Look Out There's a Monster Coming as well.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: jobotic on April 24, 2021, 11:53:53 AM
As I've mentioned before, although you're right about Look Out There's A Monster Coming, it will always be one of my favourite ever songs for

Quote
I bought a de-luxe Merseybeat wig.
But It was a size too big
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on April 24, 2021, 12:06:17 PM
Ray Davies' weird accent in Apeman.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1ZkZK71sd8

Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Chicory on April 24, 2021, 01:12:41 PM
I always thought Jamie T was a bit off.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: pupshaw on April 24, 2021, 02:25:33 PM
Does use of the N word in Oliver’s Army and Holiday In Cambodia count?

Also: Dreadlock Holiday is a bit fucking rum, innit?

Ha! Try Oh Effendi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ_tPrJUIaY), or even worse, Hotel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skgx1bjKU9s)
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kngen on April 24, 2021, 02:26:46 PM
Does use of the N word in Oliver’s Army and Holiday In Cambodia count?

I might be on my own here, but the pay off to that line in Holiday in Cambodia - '... and the slums got so much soul' wouldn't have remotely the same impact without the offending line preceding it. Perfectly skewers the dogmatic bullshit of non-intersectional leftist posturing, in my opinion, which was the point of the song.[1]

Elvis Costello using it to draw parallels between British colonialism and the Troubles - blunt and unwieldy, but it's hard to argue that it wasn't coming from a place of good intentions (rather than, you know, drunkenly ranting about Ray Charles in a bar to try and get in a fight with Stephen Stills).

In the same milieu:

The Avengers - White N..... - the sentiments I understand - 'don't be a wage slave'; the delivery method - eh, not so much.

Patti Smith - Rock'n'roll N.... - gave us the lyric 'Outside of society, is where I want to be', which I love BUT ...

Quote
Smith discussed the song with a reporter from Rolling Stone.

Reporter: The other day you said that if anyone was qualified to be a n*****, it was Mick Jagger. How is Mick Jagger qualified to be a n*****?
Smith: On our liner notes I redefined the word n***** as being an artist-mutant that was going beyond gender.
Reporter: I didn't understand how Mick Jagger has suffered like anyone who grew up in Harlem.
Smith: Suffering don't make you a n*****. I mean, I grew up poor too. Stylistically, I believe he qualifies. I think Mick Jagger has suffered plenty. He also has a great heart, and I believe, ya know, even in his most cynical moments, a great love for his children. He's got a lot of soul. I mean, like, I don't understand the question. Ya think black people are better than white people or sumpthin'? I was raised with black people. It's like, I can walk down the street and say to a kid, “Hey n*****.” I don't have any kind of super-respect or fear of that kind of stuff. When I say statements like that, they're not supposed to be analyzed, 'cause they're more like off-the-cuff humorous statements. I do have a sense of humor, ya know, which is sumpthin' that most people completely wash over when they deal with me. I never read anything where anybody talked about my sense of humor. It's like, a lot of the stuff I say is true, but it's supposed to be funny.

Patti Smith is a fucking idiot.
 1. Far worse is the line 'Don't forget to pack your wife' because it's just crap - must try harder, Jello
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: jobotic on April 24, 2021, 02:44:18 PM
I do agree with you about Holiday In Cambodia, but it'd still seem a bit weird hearing him singing it now.

What the fuck is Patti Smith on about? That's painful.

Look I redefined the word n***** to mean it applies to rich white men who grew up in Dartford okay? Jeez.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dusty Substance on April 24, 2021, 02:52:33 PM

No Vaseline by Ice Cube includes the lines "'Cause you let a Jew break up my crew" and "'Cause you can't be the Nigga 4 Life crew, With a white jew telling you what to do".
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on April 24, 2021, 02:59:43 PM
No Vaseline by Ice Cube includes the lines "'Cause you let a Jew break up my crew" and "'Cause you can't be the Nigga 4 Life crew, With a white jew telling you what to do".

That's Jerry Heller innit.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on April 24, 2021, 03:00:58 PM
That Smith stuff never made any sense. Although the stuff she said about Jagger thinking/wanting to be black is very similar to things PP Arnold has said about him, although not in some mental justification of using the N-word obvs.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Natnar on April 24, 2021, 03:14:52 PM
Alison Moyet using the N word on Rise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhmH-xD_nq4
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 03:20:45 PM
Variations of Queen's "No Synths Were Used In The Making Of This Record" boast appearing during times when rocks radio dominance was threatened by trends like funk, disco, hiphop, etc. Taking pride in no drum machines.

Anything to do with "proper" rock and roll in the 1990s. Cast's single meant to sound "like the Kia-Ora advert" while being Noel Rock.


Perfectly skewers the dogmatic bullshit of non-intersectional leftist posturing, in my opinion, which was the point of the song.

From California in the late 70s and aimed at campuses, it was probably intended as the opposite of that.

I guess "Riot" is probably worse these days. A punk rewrite of Zappa's "Trouble Every Day"
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on April 24, 2021, 03:35:14 PM
For all the hagiographizing, it's often forgotten that those NYC scene people from the 60s-70s were the absolute dumbest people in the world.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on April 24, 2021, 03:42:28 PM
Variations of Queen's "No Synths Were Used In The Making Of This Record" boast appearing during times when rocks radio dominance was threatened by trends like funk, disco, hiphop, etc. Taking pride in no drum machines.


Did Queen do that as well? I was aware Collins put "No Fairlight was used in the making of this record" probably as a jibe to Peter Gabriel.

Disco Demolition Night was so depressing in a very stupid way.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: sutin on April 24, 2021, 03:53:09 PM
I was listening to DEVO's Hardcore Vol. 2 earlier, you can add the song Bamboo Bimbo to the list!
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 03:54:43 PM
Queen started it. Very iffy band in a lot of ways whose rep is cleaned up for Gen Z because Freddie turned out to be a gent and isn't around to complain that he can't use his favourite unacceptable words anymore.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: sutin on April 24, 2021, 03:55:35 PM
Here's another good one, Black Messiah by The Kinks. Probably well-intentioned but fucking hell Ray.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 03:57:29 PM
New York Dolls covering "Stranded In The Jungle" and deliberately making it worse than the original
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 04:00:03 PM
Here's another good one, Black Messiah by The Kinks. Probably well-intentioned but fucking hell Ray.

Popular topic of mine to wind up Americans who like to think of the Kinks as the clever or conscious band as compared to the Stones and Beatle and the 'Oo.

They were always hugely fucking racist and their entire gimmick is "weren't things better in the olden days before the [slurs] came over?"

Check out the lyrics to "When I Turn Off the Living Room Light"

Lawrence Fox could have written "20th Century Man"
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Egyptian Feast on April 24, 2021, 04:00:08 PM
Ha! Try Oh Effendi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ_tPrJUIaY), or even worse, Hotel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skgx1bjKU9s)

See also: The Second Sitting For The Last Supper (https://youtu.be/KaGfunej2WY). First time I ever encountered that nasty expression (last time was that thick Tory cunt who got suspended briefly for using it in the Commons). A lot of 10cc lyrics have not aged well at all.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Kankurette on April 24, 2021, 04:00:38 PM
I do agree with you about Holiday In Cambodia, but it'd still seem a bit weird hearing him singing it now.

What the fuck is Patti Smith on about? That's painful.

Look I redefined the word n***** to mean it applies to rich white men who grew up in Dartford okay? Jeez.
I hate that song. I get Elvis Costello singing 'one less white n*****', because he's of Irish descent and Irish people were viewed as pretty low down the food chain, but Patti Smith's idea that 'n*****' = 'marginalised person' makes no sense and hearing a field full of white people singing that word repeatedly at Primavera made me uncomfortable. And I'm white myself.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: BeardFaceMan on April 24, 2021, 04:02:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ng1ovEr46c

This anti-racism (I think?) song by Clawfinger wasn't a good idea at the time, let alone now. Make sure you make it to the chorus that has to be heard to be believed, really. Hard to take an anti-racism song seriously when the chorus is a skinny white Swedish bloke screaming the n-word over and over. Bless.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 04:12:03 PM
I never understand "White Riot" - a song about white complacency and being a middle class londoner during black protests, routinely getting the chop but "Rock The Casbah" - lyrics like a rejected idea for a late 1970s Speight/Milligan joint, is an acceptable '80s rock classic. 

"Rock the Casbah" is 'orrible surely. 
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 04:15:06 PM
Iggy Pop - African Man
Lou Reed - I Wanna Be Black
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: An tSaoi on April 24, 2021, 04:21:35 PM
Take pinch of white man...
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: thecuriousorange on April 24, 2021, 04:27:46 PM
"Screwed-up eyes and screwed-down hair-do, like some cat from Japan "
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on April 24, 2021, 05:32:06 PM
Variations of Queen's "No Synths Were Used In The Making Of This Record" boast appearing during times when rocks radio dominance was threatened by trends like funk, disco, hiphop, etc. Taking pride in no drum machines.


I think that was more Brian May showing off that he made all those noises on a guitar, and not cheated and used a newfangled keyboard thingy.

They also did Dragon Attack and Another One Bites the Dust, they so weren't that non-funk. Even if they did apologise to the crowd on the Hot Space tour for playing 'another disco, black one'.

And, before I forget, they also drop a very well hidden N bomb on March of the Black Queen, Which still rocks. fight me.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on April 24, 2021, 05:34:21 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/JausnKQ5uYxn1D4lUM8JeIDcbjQ=/fit-in/599x594/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2839814-1303417794.jpeg.jpg)

Think about it, yeah?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Chedney Honks on April 24, 2021, 06:27:02 PM
Black Korea off some Ice Cube album is remarkably racist, listened to that recently. On the other hand, it was in response to racism.

Does that cancel it out?

NO!

Two wrongs don't make a right, as Woody Allen said in a racist film.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Peru on April 24, 2021, 06:39:23 PM
Take a journey back in time
Leave the western world behind
Cross the mountains to Peking
Where the paper lanterns gently swing
[...]
The Chinese way
Who knows what they know?
The Chinese legend grows
[...]
Standing at the master's side
There with patience he confides
Secret knowledge, sacred ways
Pearls of wisdom from the dragon days
😬
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Corduroy Castle on April 24, 2021, 06:54:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ng1ovEr46c

This anti-racism (I think?) song by Clawfinger wasn't a good idea at the time, let alone now. Make sure you make it to the chorus that has to be heard to be believed, really. Hard to take an anti-racism song seriously when the chorus is a skinny white Swedish bloke screaming the n-word over and over. Bless.

I'm surprised Mike Patton hasn't covered this.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 06:55:50 PM
Beefheart does alright with all kinds of heavy themes on Trout Mask then shits the bed completely with the chorus of "Hobo Chang Ba"
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 06:56:50 PM
"Sweet Black Angel" can go fuck itself.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on April 24, 2021, 06:58:46 PM
I'm surprised Mike Patton hasn't covered this.


Ironically.


That really does sound like the sort of thing Chris Morris would have done back in the day as a Rage Against the Machine parody.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Mr Banlon on April 24, 2021, 07:04:34 PM
Mott the Hoople's All the Way From Memphis :
"Some spade said rock 'n' rollers, you're all the same
Man that's your instrument, I felt so ashamed"
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on April 24, 2021, 07:05:19 PM
Who would have thought Steve Albini, err..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCeipaA8KCg


Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on April 24, 2021, 07:06:05 PM
Speaking of Jagger...

Gold coast slave ship bound for cotton fields
Sold in a market down in New Orleans
Scarred old slaver knows he's doing alright
Hear him whip the women just around midnight

Brown sugar
How come you taste so good?
Brown sugar
Just like a young girl should

Drums beating, cold English blood runs hot
Lady of the house wonderin' where it's gonna stop
House boy knows that he's doing alright
You shoulda heard him just around midnight

Brown sugar
How come you taste so good, now?
Brown sugar
Just like a young girl should

Ah, get along, brown sugar
How come you taste so good
Ah, got me feelin' now, brown sugar
Just like a black girl should
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 07:08:51 PM
"Passing Complexion" is fine.
The band he had with the Urge Overkill guy, however...
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Mr Banlon on April 24, 2021, 07:17:26 PM
Barbados (Whoa, I'm Going To) by Typically Tropical
'Jim Davidson as Chalkie' singing style, and a reference to Coconut Airways. It was also No1 in South Africa in 1975.

Dreadlock Holiday by 10cc.

Nick Nack Paddy Whack

Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Glebe on April 24, 2021, 07:19:31 PM
Shaddap You Face - Joe Dolce. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs)
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
Shaddap You Face - Joe Dolce. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBAwUTO1fNs
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: The Mollusk on April 24, 2021, 07:50:54 PM
Speaking of dodgy N-word appropriation, Crass did themselves no favours with “White Punks on Hope”:

Quote
They said that we were trash
Well the name is Crass, not Clash
They can stuff their punk credentials
Cause it's them that take the cash
They won't change nothing with their fashionable talk
All their RAR badges and their protest walk
Thousands of white men standing in a park
Objecting to racism's like a candle in the dark
Black man's got his problems and his way to deal with it
So don't fool yourself you're helping with your white liberal shit
If you care to take a closer look at the way things really stand
You'd see we're all just n****** to the rulers of this land

Mmm, not so sure about that, Steve. Kind of grimly amusing that the gender-exclusivity of the line about black people men is the least problematic, messy and poorly considered thing about those lyrics.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
I don't mind having a chance to put the boot into anti-marxist anarchists, but "black man's got his problems" is delivered scathingly, sounds like he's making fun of Strummer.

The sentiment is still shit though. There is a lot of garbage on that record, lyrically despite being some of their most skin-crawlingly effective music. "Heard Too Much About" slags off working class people for caring about "people in the ghetto" and working to change things at their jobs instead of dropping out of the system maaaaaan...  "The Gasman Cometh" and "Fun in the Oven" too. I admire Crass a lot and they recorded a shit load of great stuff, frequently hilarious too, but I think they get buy on how forward Penis Envy seemed overshadowing how awful the message of their other albums could be. "Where Next Columbus?" is so good, lyrics and all.

Then there is the fucking intolerable "Nagasaki Nightmare" single which has cymbal crashes and the "oriental riff" and stupid racist voices - what would it be like if Jim Davidson covered a track from This Heats self titled? This. Reminds me of the yellow face bullshit Godard kept putting in his films.

But at least they're not class crazy Marxists eh.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 08:10:37 PM
Quote
To ashes at Auschwitz it's just a small leap,
From coshes at Southall, life is cheap.
Don't think that they won't do it, 'cause they already do,
But this time 'round the pawns are me and you.

Blergh
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: SullySullivan85 on April 24, 2021, 08:59:07 PM
Dear diary,
Jackpot.

https://youtu.be/YyTruRHZsFQ
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dusty Substance on April 24, 2021, 09:19:00 PM

The Lone Ranger by Quantum Jump is down there with what I consider to be the worst songs ever recorded. It's a fucking appalling, tuneless single but it's made even worse by these rather dated lyrics:

Quote
Taumatawhakatangihangakoayauo-
Tamateaturipukakapikimaungahoro-
Nukypokaiwhenuakitanatahu

Me Tonto Kimosabi
Me go and catchee baddy
Find him by the shady water
Deep within Apache forest
Find him scalp him eat him up for breakfast.....

And it continues from there, obviously with a mention of a peace pipe.

Banned by the Beeb at the time of release, not for racism but for a reference to homosexuality and drugs.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: chveik on April 24, 2021, 09:25:15 PM
Black Korea off some Ice Cube album is remarkably racist, listened to that recently. On the other hand, it was in response to racism.

Does that cancel it out?

NO!

Two wrongs don't make a right, as Woody Allen said in a racist film.

love that album but it's a pure expression of hatred from start to finish
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: lazyhour on April 24, 2021, 09:25:56 PM
Randy Newman gets away with it in songs like Rednecks and Sail Away because they are amazing songs with a crystal clear satirical intent, but I'd still feel very uncomfortable if I was listen to them in my record shop and a BAME person came in Android heard them without knowing about their context or Randy's ouvre.

The punchline at the end of Rednecks is just phenomenal, where he suddenly lays as much blame on metropolitan cities (ie, his self congratulatory listeners) as he does on Deep Southerners for keeping black Americans down.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 09:40:48 PM
Randy Newman gets away with it in songs like Rednecks and Sail Away because they are amazing songs with a crystal clear satirical intent, but I'd still feel very uncomfortable if I was listen to them in my record shop and a BAME person came in Android heard them without knowing about their context or Randy's ouvre.

The punchline at the end of Rednecks is just phenomenal, where he suddenly lays as much blame on metropolitan cities (ie, his self congratulatory listeners) as he does on Deep Southerners for keeping black Americans down.

"Rednecks" is gut wrenching.

Kind of feel the same about the "this poor cracker's land" line in "Louisiana". Like: oh, the land?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Oz Oz Alice on April 24, 2021, 10:03:11 PM
Here's one, a little more recent, relating to Nick Cave: I'm a massive fan as posts I've made elsewhere on the board demonstrate but it can't just be me who thinks several of the Bad Seeds appearing in black face in the Babe I'm On Fire video is, well, quite off. Timestamped one instance for anyone who doesn't want a full 15 minutes of exciting garagey rock'n'roll: https://youtu.be/LsBJ62jSCl0?t=234 . I had initially planned to mention the "bad blind n____ on the piano" in St Huck but somehow, and I don't know if this is wrong of me to think so, that's somewhat diminished by the fact that Barry Adamson plays bass on it and probably would've mentioned if he had a problem with it as he's a guy who doesn't suffer fools.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Rich Uncle Skeleton on April 24, 2021, 10:54:14 PM
Dear diary,
Jackpot.

https://youtu.be/YyTruRHZsFQ

crowd whipped into an absolute frenzy!
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: non capisco on April 24, 2021, 11:05:00 PM
The Lone Ranger by Quantum Jump is down there with what I consider to be the worst songs ever recorded. It's a fucking appalling, tuneless single but it's made even worse by these rather dated lyrics:

And it continues from there, obviously with a mention of a peace pipe.

Banned by the Beeb at the time of release, not for racism but for a reference to homosexuality and drugs.

Was it banned by the Beeb? Having watched every surviving 70s episode on some mad odyssey two years ago I know they were on Top Of The Pops twice, with intact verses about The Lone Ranger getting baked and passing a bifter to his horse and Tonto wondering if his boss was a "poofter" and then deciding if he was to give the nod then he'd be up for it. You could possibly glean a for-the-times progressive stance on homosexuality from the latter if you were being generous, describing some kind of Republic Serial version of Brokeback Mountain, but unfortunately the video makes it quite clear what at least three quarters of Quantum Jump think about  THEM LOT RUBBING IT IN YER FACE (https://youtu.be/hchOYs_d_Bw?t=134), downing tools and walking out of their own song in disgust at the very idea of a bloke fancying a bloke.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on April 24, 2021, 11:12:41 PM
Beefheart does alright with all kinds of heavy themes on Trout Mask then shits the bed completely with the chorus of "Hobo Chang Ba"
Are you joking?
Quote
Strawwood claw rattlin' my jaw
I can't call it usin'
It's just somethin' soothin'
Feather times a feather
Mornin' time to thaw
Hobo chang ba
Hobo chang ba
I don't see racism here. [First verse and chorus quoted]
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 24, 2021, 11:30:07 PM
He sang the song in an 'oriental' accent and exaggerated the chant of the characters name for the chorus, which is disappointing because its a good lyric (apparently about real drifters he knew) and the track really cooks. A shame, real bad choice.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Bently Sheds on April 24, 2021, 11:54:29 PM
Spice Girls - Spice Up Your Life:

Yellow man in Timbuktu
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: TheMonk on April 25, 2021, 12:15:45 AM
I’m not sure Illegal Alien by Genesis has been mentioned but that one.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: bigfatheart on April 25, 2021, 12:20:18 AM
Was it banned by the Beeb? Having watched every surviving 70s episode on some mad odyssey two years ago I know they were on Top Of The Pops twice, with intact verses about The Lone Ranger getting baked and passing a bifter to his horse and Tonto wondering if his boss was a "poofter" and then deciding if he was to give the nod then he'd be up for it. You could possibly glean a for-the-times progressive stance on homosexuality from the latter if you were being generous, describing some kind of Republic Serial version of Brokeback Mountain, but unfortunately the video makes it quite clear what at least three quarters of Quantum Jump think about  THEM LOT RUBBING IT IN YER FACE (https://youtu.be/hchOYs_d_Bw?t=134), downing tools and walking out of their own song in disgust at the very idea of a bloke fancying a bloke.

I believe it was banned on its initial release. When Kenny Everett picked up on it a couple of years later and it made it into the charts, the Beeb were a bit less arsed.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on April 25, 2021, 12:24:52 AM
Randy Newman gets away with it in songs like Rednecks and Sail Away because they are amazing songs with a crystal clear satirical intent, but I'd still feel very uncomfortable if I was listen to them in my record shop and a BAME person came in Android heard them without knowing about their context or Randy's ouvre.

The punchline at the end of Rednecks is just phenomenal, where he suddenly lays as much blame on metropolitan cities (ie, his self congratulatory listeners) as he does on Deep Southerners for keeping black Americans down.

He's got a lot of these ("Yellow Man" also comes to mind, which Harry Nilson inexplicably chose as one of the covers on his Newman album), but Randy Newman might be the only artist who I will defend having racist lyrics, because all of those early albums are incredibly nihilistic caricatures of how hellish American society is. It's not just pompous liberal John Lennon "I'm using a slur to make a point!" nonsense.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: GoblinAhFuckScary on April 25, 2021, 12:32:36 AM
the "obligatory n*****s" line from the first track off hex enduction hour
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: non capisco on April 25, 2021, 12:44:53 AM
I believe it was banned on its initial release. When Kenny Everett picked up on it a couple of years later and it made it into the charts, the Beeb were a bit less arsed.

I thought the singer out of that shower was B.A Robertson at first, couldn't tell them apart. Maybe I am the real racist.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: idunnosomename on April 25, 2021, 01:48:51 AM
bit uneasy seeing OG east coast death metal act Malevolent Creation open for Batushka last year considering this from 1995

Quote
   Born into this world of filth
A plague in every city
The real world is not so real
Filled with scum and lying thieves
Threats of pain, claiming lives
When we owe you nothing
Forced to live in fear forever
Still they breed

Always wanting, always taking
What was never yours
Someday you will feel the hate
That you gave to others

Filled with diseases
Still they breed

Hate towards you and your kind
Bad blood flows forever
My life is not complete
Until you've killed each other

Always wanting, always taking
What was never yours
Someday you will feel the hate
That you gave to others

Always wanting, always taking
What was never yours
Someday you will feel the hate
You fucking n**gers

i mean even without the slur at the end it's pretty fucking awful. but regardless, this was released on a label that was in partnership with Zoo/BMG and widely distributed and I don't think anyone cared until relatively recently. dont think there was a lyric sheet originally but despite retconning that's clearly what he says. yeah theres plenty more racist shit dug up around the members too.

i mean should i also not read Philip Larkin because he was a racist cunt? well uh, maybe
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on April 25, 2021, 07:55:50 AM
He sang the song in an 'oriental' accent and exaggerated the chant of the characters name for the chorus, which is disappointing because its a good lyric (apparently about real drifters he knew) and the track really cooks. A shame, real bad choice.
I'll have to listen to this again. I don't remember any accent.
Edit: I just did.  Feels like a bit of a reach to me to call his accent "oriental".
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Jockice on April 25, 2021, 08:21:46 AM
I actually genuinely think this lot were better than Roxy Music but the lyrics to this are slightly questionable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLE1xKo6dns

Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: earl_sleek on April 25, 2021, 11:22:15 AM
Although it's apparently written in response to racist attacks on a takeaway, Hong Kong Garden by Siouxise and the Banshees has several lines that probably wouldn't fly nowadays, such as "Slanted eyes meet a new sunrise / A race of bodies small in size" as well as using a rather stereotypical "Oriental" riff.

Of course, young Susan said much worse things about Jews back in those days.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Ornlu on April 25, 2021, 11:22:21 AM
Probably pushing the definition of 'popular' here but I used to jam to Country Teasers' Black Change without ever even listening to what the lyrics were saying. Which is a shame, because it's a banger of a song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcDMTb6HLBs&ab_channel=ombremor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcDMTb6HLBs&ab_channel=ombremor)
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Corduroy Castle on April 25, 2021, 11:32:45 AM
Probably pushing the definition of 'popular' here but I used to jam to Country Teasers' Black Change without ever even listening to what the lyrics were saying. Which is a shame, because it's a banger of a song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcDMTb6HLBs&ab_channel=ombremor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcDMTb6HLBs&ab_channel=ombremor)

Yeah, I mean Ben Wallers very clearly writes things like that 'in character' though. Thin line, I suppose. The Sadowitz defence.

See also: The Frogs.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: GoblinAhFuckScary on April 25, 2021, 11:44:16 AM
Probably pushing the definition of 'popular' here but I used to jam to Country Teasers' Black Change without ever even listening to what the lyrics were saying. Which is a shame, because it's a banger of a song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcDMTb6HLBs&ab_channel=ombremor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcDMTb6HLBs&ab_channel=ombremor)

never sure how i feel about wallers' writing. there was a moment where it snapped for me that it might actually be a little indefensible when seeing him live for like the third time and having a chorus of dudes around me cheering along to his like "all swans are faggots". it's the whole evil character schtick that essentially alienates everyone that isn't straight/white/cis etc. very indulgent
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: TheMonk on April 25, 2021, 11:57:28 AM
Tokyo Joe by Bryan Ferry seems to skate along the edge until the final line where he dives right in with “Ah so, that's Tokyo Joe”
https://youtu.be/BauVLD0ldDc
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: El Unicornio, mang on April 25, 2021, 12:24:13 PM
"The Hurricane" by Bob Dylan, not racist but hearing him belt out the line

Quote
And to the black folks he was just a crazy n**ger

made me feel uncomfortable when it was played at least once a week on the classic rock station we had on in the office in Florida, particularly since half the employees were black
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dusty Substance on April 25, 2021, 12:31:56 PM
Was it banned by the Beeb?

Only found that out yesterday when looking at the Wiki for Quantum Jump on the very slight possibility that the singer (who, as pointed out, does have a B.A Cunterson vibe) might claim to have some sort of native American ancestry. He could have been the Elizabeth Warren of awful 70s singles.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: flotemysost on April 25, 2021, 12:52:57 PM
There's nothing specifically racist in the lyrics, but I always found the cod-reggae stylings and dad-joke title of Led Zep's D'yer Mak'er a bit cringe.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: JohnnyCouncil on April 25, 2021, 01:12:55 PM
Am I overreacting or is this Bloodhound Gang song a teensy-weensy bit offensive?


Are those numchucks in your pants or are you just happy to see me?


Let me take you back to the day that I met my China Girl
When I landed a Pam like on the San Fran Real World
I was sweatin' like a vegetable inside of a wok
I'd never been to Asia Minor but I was gonna Bangkok
Like Kristy Yamaguchi I had to break the ice
Should I talk about Mothra M.A.S.H. or shrimp-fried rice?
I was sharp as a Chinese star but it's a line that I threw
Just Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo and this Johnny would Woo
I took a shot like Jeanette Lee put on my moves like Bruce Lee
I told her every Soon Yi needs a little Woody
She said for all the tea in China me vagina no free
But me love will linger longer than the Ming Dynasty
I said I needed her to do and her to do my laundry
I knew she needed a way to legally stay within the country
She was made in Taiwan I said I'm O.K. with that
Just promise me you'll never try to eat my cat

Chinky Chinky bang bang I love you
Chinky Chinky bang bang I know you love me too
Chinky Chinky bang bang I love you
Chinky Chinky bang bang I know you love me too

In Japan the hand is used as a knife
In Japan a man's wife's hand job then can cost him his life
But now this Captain Kirk has his own Sulu
I'll shampoo her Fu Manchu with Lo Hung Wang Goo
'Cause I ride my slant-eyed Slope like a brand new Kawasaki
Oh my Chinky she's so kinky got me hot like Nagasaki
Burnin' up like Napalm burstin' like an A-bomb
I think I got that jungle fever but I caught it in 'Nam
She's like an oriental rug 'cause I lay her where I please
Then I blindfold her with dental floss and get on my knees
I'm a diving Kamikaze eating out Chinese
First I'll have the Poo Poo Platter then some tuna sushi
She'll be screamin' like Godzilla and kickin' like Jackie Chan
I'll get her redder than China wetter than the Sea of Japan
Like the Chinese New Year she's gonna see fireworks
Now be a good Chinky and go press Jimmy's shirts

Chinky Chinky bang bang I love you
Chinky Chinky bang bang I know you love me too
Chinky Chinky bang bang I love you
Chinky Chinky bang bang I know you love me too

Sing Chinky sing
One more time

Chinky Chinky bang bang I love you
Chinky Chinky bang bang I know you love me too
Chinky Chinky bang bang I love you
Chinky Chinky bang bang I know you love me too
Chinky Chinky bang bang Chinky bang
Chinky Chinky bang biddily biddily biddily bang
Chinky Chinky bang bang Chinky bang
Chinky Chinky bang biddily biddily biddily bang
Chinky Chinky bang bang Chinky bang
Chinky Chinky bang biddily biddily biddily bang
Chinky Chinky bang bang Chinky bang
Chinky Chinky bang biddily biddily biddily bang
Chinky Chinky bang bang Chinky bang
Chinky Chinky bang biddily biddily biddily bang
Chinky Chinky bang bang Chinky bang
Chinky Chinky bang biddily biddily biddily bang
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: bigfatheart on April 25, 2021, 01:28:12 PM
By comparison, the Dickies '(I'm Stuck in a Pagoda With) Tricia Toyota' is pretty tasteful, but it's yet another song with a cod-Oriental 'diddle-diddle-dee' riff and the backing vocals on the chorus are 'ah so'.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: iamcoop on April 25, 2021, 01:32:14 PM
As a staunch fan of The Stranglers I always hated I Feel Like A Wog.

Whilst it can be taken as an anti-racism lyric (which has always been Hugh’s explanation) the fact of the matter is the word was shocking and hateful even then and was chosen to be deliberately provocative.

I’ve seen JJ claim it was an insult levelled at him when he was a child due to being the son of French parents but even still, in the wider context of what most people assume that word  to mean and the effect the people that use it intend to have I’m afraid that cuts no dice with me.

I don’t think for a second the band have racist inclinations it’s just a woefully misguided attempt to shock whilst making a point that, at best, can be interpreted as extremely clumsy.

The worst aspect really is they’ve just doubled down in later years and were still playing it right up until I saw them a couple of years ago. It made me physically wince. Hated it.

I wish they’d take a step back and reappraise it and say something along the lines of “Whilst we think the message the lyrics were trying to convey was an anti-racist one we understand that public moods change, the context of words shift over time and sensibilities people in the late seventies had are not the same as they have now in modern society so with that in mind we won’t be playing it anymore.”

But they haven’t, and I assume they won’t.

I’m happy to try and at least defend the various accusations of misogyny levelled at the group over the years (a lot of their more ‘provocative’ lyrics are far more intelligent and cutting than a lot of people give them credit for) but IFLAW is the one thing by them that I find totally indefensible.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: chveik on April 25, 2021, 01:32:31 PM
Feels like a bit of a reach to me to call his accent "oriental".

quite
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Egyptian Feast on April 25, 2021, 01:32:36 PM
I thought the singer out of that shower was B.A Robertson at first, couldn't tell them apart. Maybe I am the real racist.

You're not the only one. We're both BAcists.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 25, 2021, 01:50:52 PM
I'll have to listen to this again. I don't remember any accent.
Edit: I just did.  Feels like a bit of a reach to me to call his accent "oriental".

Not my words, sadly. A couple of the biographies and autobiogs talk about it, I think there was some consternation in the Beefheart camp about the decision

From the Barnes biography--
Quote
Van Vliet sings ...one of his best lyrics... in a ridiculous voice that was apparently his approximation of an Oriental accent

I think John French AKA Drumbo defended it as being an imitation of the free form vocals from free jazz records but I don't buy it. From the middle part of the song onwards he's chanting CHAAANG BAAA CHAAANG BAAA in that voice. Shame because I def agree with people who think the track is otherwise one of his best.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Brundle-Fly on April 25, 2021, 02:30:54 PM
New Dehli by Madness. An appalled Englishman abroad. They've pretty much disowned this plod and I don't believe ever performed it live. The Peter Sellers 'but, but, but wobbly head voices in the outro and Barson browned and turbanned up on the album cover compounded things somewhat. Wonderful production though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dEY783O7A8

And you don't even want to hear Chas Smash's very dodgy 'Chalky White' spoken bit in the demo of Deceives The Eye. Thank god Clive Langer stepped in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGWXfSKJUrw
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kngen on April 25, 2021, 03:03:33 PM
By comparison, the Dickies '(I'm Stuck in a Pagoda With) Tricia Toyota' is pretty tasteful, but it's yet another song with a cod-Oriental 'diddle-diddle-dee' riff and the backing vocals on the chorus are 'ah so'.

I was talking about this the other day with a friend (I was maintaining that Dawn of the Dickies is a better album than Incredible Shrinking ....). He replied that it was a good record, but it's really racist.

What, I replied. The Tricia Toyata song? I mean, yeah, it's not exactly enlightened, but ...

'I'm a Cholo,' he countered.

'Oh ... yeah,' I conceded.

'And have you ever read the lyrics to Shadow Man?' he enquired.

'Erm, no.' So I did.

Quote from:  The Dickies finest White Power anthem aka Shadow Man
He's in the alley he's big and tall
He's got no family he makes me smile
Black man black man black man black man
Black man black man black man black man
Shadow man 'cause he's a shadow man
Black man black man black man black man
Black man black man black man black man
Shadow man yeah shadow man
He's got the rhythm he likes to dance
He likes white women he wants romance
Trash man, junk man, elevator operator
Trash man, junk man, elevator operator
Trash man, junk man, elevator operator
Homminy grits and watermelon
Blackeyed peas and armageddon
Yeah yeah becausa he lova you

'Oh for fuck's sake!'

Probably shouldn't come as a huge surprise that Leonard the singer, when he's not calling women 'fat pigs' on the Vans Warped Tour, is a major anti-masker Trump idiot. Stan Lee is still cool, though. Which is something, I guess ...
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 25, 2021, 03:39:37 PM
"Kabuki Girl" by the Descendents goes:

Quote
your face is white
your hair is black
you will probably stab my back

Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: flotemysost on April 25, 2021, 03:55:21 PM
Girls, Girls, Girls by Jay-Z is pretty dodgy throughout

Quote
I got this Spanish chica, she don't like me to roam
So she call me cabron plus marricon
Said she likes to cook rice so she likes me home
I'm like, "Un momento" mami, slow up your tempo
I got this black chick, she don't know how to act
Always talkin' out her neck, makin' her fingers snap
She like, "Listen Jigga Man, I don't care if you rap
You better R-E-S-P-E-C-T me"
I got this French chick that love to french kiss
She thinks she's Bo Derek, wear her hair in a twist
My, Cherie amour, to a belle
Merci, you fine as fuck but you givin' me hell
I got this Indian squaw the day that I met her
Asked her what tribe she with, red, dot or feather
She said all you need to know is I'm not a ho
And to get with me you better be Chief Lots-a-Dough
Now that's Spanish chick, French chick, Indian and black
That's fried chicken, curry chicken, damn I'm gettin' fat
Arroz con pollo, french fries and crepe
An appetite for destruction but I scrape the plate

Quote
Got a chick from Peru, that sniff Peru
She got a cousin at customs that get shit through
Got this weed-head chick, she always catch me doing shit
Crazy girl want to leave me but she always forgets
Got this Chinese chick, had to leave her quick
Cause she kept bootlegging my shit, man
I got this African chick with Eddie Murphy on her skull
She like, "Jigga Man, why you treat me like animal?"
I'm like excuse me Ms. Fufu, but when I met your ass
You was dead broke and naked, and now you one half
I got this ho that after twelve million sold
Mami's a narcoleptic, always sleeping on Hov'
Gotta tie the back of her head like Deuce Bigalow
I got so many girls across the globe

I mean, it's probably a bit more knowing than plenty of other examples of the "women from other cultures/races are an exotic novelty but they have their weird foreign ways" canon, which is of course absolutely rife in music from white rock artists too - always thought the line about Bo Derek was maybe a comment on white people appropriating Black culture (as she was the original "white person getting praised for wearing Black hairstyles") - but it's still pretty cringe.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: pupshaw on April 25, 2021, 05:38:17 PM
We've not had Island Girl (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M6onFt--iM) yet?

Vile.

Quote
I see your teeth flash, Jamaican honey so sweet
Down where Lexington cross 47th Street
She’s a big girl, she’s standing six foot three
Turning tricks for the dudes in the big city

Island girl
What you wanting with the white man’s world
Island girl
Black boy want you in his island world
He want to take you from the racket boss
He want to save you but the cause is lost
Island girl, island girl, island girl
Tell me what you wanting with the white man’s world

She’s black as coal but she burn like a fire
And she wrap herself around you like a well worn tire
You feel her nail scratch your back just like a rake
He one more gone, he one more John who make the mistake
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: studpuppet on April 25, 2021, 06:26:00 PM
Take pinch of white man...

Of course, but especially when sung by Derek Griffiths on an open-top bus in the middle of Chinatown (https://www.tvark.org/?page=media&mediaid=101047) while doing the slitty-eyes thing with his fingers.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: thecuriousorange on April 25, 2021, 08:24:19 PM
There was that Mike Read calypso record from a few years ago. I hope nobody in the future thinks that was considered OK at the time. Give us some credit.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Glebe on April 25, 2021, 08:46:42 PM
There was that Mike Read calypso record from a few years ago. I hope nobody in the future thinks that was considered OK at the time. Give us some credit.

And doing blackface and all.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: bloom on April 26, 2021, 01:51:25 AM
For sheer variety of casual racism and other offensiveness - that one track from the utterly insane Peter Wyngarde album.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: zomgmouse on April 26, 2021, 02:58:03 AM
Although it's apparently written in response to racist attacks on a takeaway, Hong Kong Garden by Siouxise and the Banshees has several lines that probably wouldn't fly nowadays, such as "Slanted eyes meet a new sunrise / A race of bodies small in size" as well as using a rather stereotypical "Oriental" riff.

Yeah was never too sure about this one to be honest.

Also recently been on a Kate Bush binge and can't quite make up my mind about "The Dreaming".

I notice "Apeman" and in general The Kinks have been mentioned, there's a pretty icky Jewish caricature voice at the end of "Top of the Pops that's never sat right with me".
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 26, 2021, 04:43:46 AM
.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Kankurette on April 26, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
Yeah was never too sure about this one to be honest.

Also recently been on a Kate Bush binge and can't quite make up my mind about "The Dreaming".

I notice "Apeman" and in general The Kinks have been mentioned, there's a pretty icky Jewish caricature voice at the end of "Top of the Pops that's never sat right with me".
I know she does a dodgy Aussie accent but I thought that song was protesting about white Australians’ treatment of Aboriginal Australians, unless you mean her singing about the Dreamtime is appropriation.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on April 26, 2021, 11:51:13 AM
Siouxsie also included some casual antisemitism in the original Love In A Void lyrics but that apparently came from Severin. Burchill attacked her for it but unfortunately accused her of being a "retard" and included the advice that "daddy" should beat Siouxsie up.

http://www.untiedundone.com/nmescr.html
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Thomas on April 26, 2021, 12:03:30 PM
Quote
Also recently been on a Kate Bush binge and can't quite make up my mind about "The Dreaming".

I've just read that 'The Dreaming' was originally titled 'The Abo Song' until 'Bush and EMI were informed that "Abo" is a racial slur in Australia'. The promo copies in circulation were recalled and the track was renamed.

https://www.discogs.com/Kate-Bush-The-Dreaming-Abo-Song/release/6919933

I think it's just Kate trying (perhaps a little clumsily) to empathise creatively with the suffering of a culture far removed from her own. As the recall cited above demonstrates, she wasn't trying to be deliberately insensitive (rather the opposite) - but it also demonstrates the weaknesses in the idea that an artist can write about anything they like, from any perspective.[1]

Kate Bush's biggest sin is cockney armed robber cultural appropriation in 'There Goes a Tenner' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxVcrFTzZMs).
 1. not an idea I'm necessarily opposed to. After all, the (heavily researched) script for the brilliant Four Lions, penned by the distinctly white Chris Morris, Sam Bain, and Jesse Armstrong, features a lot of slurs that you wouldn't want to hear from their own mouths.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Kankurette on April 26, 2021, 12:26:25 PM
Siouxsie also included some casual antisemitism in the original Love In A Void lyrics but that apparently came from Severin. Burchill attacked her for it but unfortunately accused her of being a "retard" and included the advice that "daddy" should beat Siouxsie up.

http://www.untiedundone.com/nmescr.html
Team No-One. And Burchill is an antisemitic piece of shit too so she can fuck right off.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Egyptian Feast on April 26, 2021, 06:01:02 PM
Siouxsie also included some casual antisemitism in the original Love In A Void lyrics but that apparently came from Severin. Burchill attacked her for it but unfortunately accused her of being a "retard" and included the advice that "daddy" should beat Siouxsie up.

http://www.untiedundone.com/nmescr.html

Thanks for this. I was listening to The Scream a lot recently and wanted to reread that review for the laugh. I've been reading out little chunks to my partner and it's properly winding her up. We've only got this far

Quote from: A Fucking Child
Start with an instrumental circa "Warsawza". Instrumentals are pretentious as shit, I don’t care who does them. Chuck Berry never felt the need to, so screw you, Sioux.

but we've had a lot of 'enjoyment' from it already. The highlight so far was describing Adam Ant, Japan and Ultravox as no-hopers (admittedly from the vantage point of 1978, but her work from this era is full of similarly useless predictions). She's always been a terrible writer and The Boy Looked At Johnny is the cuntiest music book I have, or likely will, ever read (and I've done the first 50 pages of Gene Simmons' book).
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Kankurette on April 26, 2021, 06:15:02 PM
Christ that was a shitty review, although I agree that swanning around in a swastika armband is a shitty thing to do.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: chveik on April 26, 2021, 06:21:27 PM
there were lot of edgy unnecessary shite going on in those post-punk days. being obsessed with nazi aesthetics is just pathetic really
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: NoSleep on April 26, 2021, 06:39:36 PM
Quote from: repulsive individual
Instrumentals are pretentious as shit, I don’t care who does them. Chuck Berry never felt the need to, so screw you, Sioux.

Chuck gets all Can-esque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUT1gSV8YTo

Trust a writer to be more concerned with texts than with musical content.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Glebe on April 26, 2021, 07:03:11 PM
There was that Mike Read calypso record from a few years ago. I hope nobody in the future thinks that was considered OK at the time. Give us some credit.

(https://i.imgur.com/bIMkQRZ.jpg)

I mean state of that.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on April 26, 2021, 07:04:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bIMkQRZ.jpg)

I mean state of that.
That was at Kenny Lynch's funeral wasn't it.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on April 26, 2021, 07:16:30 PM
there were lot of edgy unnecessary shite going on in those post-punk days. being obsessed with nazi aesthetics is just pathetic really

That's very true, and Siouxsie carries some blame, but Burchill just substitutes one set of ad hominem abuse for another.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: good times on April 26, 2021, 07:46:32 PM
Already mentioned in the thread, but I heard African Man by Iggy Pop the other day for the first time and felt fairly icky.

Funnily enough I've known The Fall's version, Ibis Afro Man, for ages and had always assumed it was a piss take of gap year students or maybe I'm A Celebrity. Knew it was an Iggy cover but wasn't aware of it being regarded as a fairly dodgy track until more recently.

It probably helped that The Fall version dropped all the lyrics about hating the white man, but I look back at the remaining lyrics now and still wonder how I didn't think it was a sketchy tune.

On the subject of The Fall, what a bloody horrid shame The Classical has that lyric. The live version on In A Hole drops the line which makes me think/hope maybe he realised on some level how ropey it was despite being all cocky about it in interviews (claiming the lyric scuppered a record deal with Motown or something)

Country Teasers also have a lot of rum stuff as mentioned, especially the misogynistic and homophobic stuff. It's clearly all part of his mad cartoon villain persona but some of it is still hard to listen to.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Glebe on April 26, 2021, 08:25:38 PM
That was at Kenny Lynch's funeral wasn't it.

I imagine Kenny Lynch's funeral happened soon after he saw that.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Corduroy Castle on April 26, 2021, 08:31:17 PM
On the subject of The Fall, what a bloody horrid shame The Classical has that lyric.

I like how at that bit in the song the bass plays a bendy wrong note like its making an "oo-er" face in the background.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Kankurette on April 26, 2021, 08:39:10 PM
there were lot of edgy unnecessary shite going on in those post-punk days. being obsessed with nazi aesthetics is just pathetic really
The lads from The Clash did it until Bernie Rhodes got very angry with them and told them to pack it in.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Ignatius_S on April 26, 2021, 08:56:35 PM
Thanks for this. I was listening to The Scream a lot recently and wanted to reread that review for the laugh. I've been reading out little chunks to my partner and it's properly winding her up. We've only got this far...

Interesting, Burchill makes no reference about the inspiration for Metal Postcard being John Heartfield, the famous artists and anti-Nazi propagandist. Presumably, this was due to reasons of space.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: SullySullivan85 on April 26, 2021, 09:00:19 PM
That was at Kenny Lynch's funeral wasn't it.

Pretty sure this is a mocked-up picture from a story on Newsthump:

https://newsthump.com/2014/10/22/mike-read-apologises-for-blacking-up-in-ukip-calypso-video/

But can see how people would think it was real given the concept of that record which just makes you think "sigh" and "UKIP single-handedly proving true all their stereotypes."

Even my incredibly right-wing Tory MP said "Why have they chosen a Jamaican calypso, which really represents a whole section of society they want to close the door to?

"I suppose it is their way of saying 'We are not racist', but it shows how out of touch they are."

Yes, it's this guy.

(https://observer.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/12/evans.png)

Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Ignatius_S on April 26, 2021, 09:08:01 PM
Christ that was a shitty review, although I agree that swanning around in a swastika armband is a shitty thing to do.

Aye and when reading Siouxsie's explanation, the words 'well, as long as you had a good reason' hardly spring to mind.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Ignatius_S on April 26, 2021, 09:12:16 PM
there were lot of edgy unnecessary shite going on in those post-punk days. being obsessed with nazi aesthetics is just pathetic really

More punk, really, which can be seen in a lot of the photos of the period and McLaren/Westwood's clothes. There was a fair bit in 1976, such as Siouxsie wearing the armband (and argument could be made that Burchill's point was a couple of years late) and as Jon Savage points out, this kind of flirtation with fascist imaginary wasn't unique to punk.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Ignatius_S on April 26, 2021, 09:14:03 PM
The lads from The Clash did it until Bernie Rhodes got very angry with them and told them to pack it in.

There's one account of when the Pistols and the Clash were playing (the 1976 punk festival at the 100 Club, IIRC), and Rhodes got into a massive argument with McLaren, who was handing out swastika armbands (one of which was taken by Siouxsie). McLaren backed down after the Clash threatened to up (drum) sticks.

McLaren by various accounts was fascinated/obsessed with Nazi imagery.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on April 26, 2021, 09:26:45 PM
Pretty sure this is a mocked-up picture from a story on Newsthump:

I knew it was fake. I was trying out the famous "kalowski humour".
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: zomgmouse on April 27, 2021, 01:19:12 AM
I've just read that 'The Dreaming' was originally titled 'The Abo Song' until 'Bush and EMI were informed that "Abo" is a racial slur in Australia'. The promo copies in circulation were recalled and the track was renamed.

https://www.discogs.com/Kate-Bush-The-Dreaming-Abo-Song/release/6919933

I think it's just Kate trying (perhaps a little clumsily) to empathise creatively with the suffering of a culture far removed from her own. As the recall cited above demonstrates, she wasn't trying to be deliberately insensitive (rather the opposite) - but it also demonstrates the weaknesses in the idea that an artist can write about anything they like, from any perspective.[1]
 1. not an idea I'm necessarily opposed to. After all, the (heavily researched) script for the brilliant Four Lions, penned by the distinctly white Chris Morris, Sam Bain, and Jesse Armstrong, features a lot of slurs that you wouldn't want to hear from their own mouths.

Yeah that's more or less my own thoughts on the matter. Plus the fact that Rolf Harris plays the didgeridoo.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: SullySullivan85 on April 27, 2021, 05:03:37 PM
I knew it was fake. I was trying out the famous "kalowski humour".

No worries, are there any nice AirBnBs near this famous historical site post lockdown?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on April 27, 2021, 06:40:24 PM
No worries, are there any nice AirBnBs near this famous historical site post lockdown?
Tickets are cheap.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kngen on April 28, 2021, 01:46:28 AM
McLaren was just (as with so many things) pretending to have come up with something that he'd actually seen on his holidays (in this case, Ron Asheton of the Stooges wearing SS uniforms on stage).

I find Siouxsie's posturing hilarious, though, as she would go onto become incandescent about punk (which she whined was about 'art and bondage') being hijacked by oiks from the football terraces (e.g. Sham, the Subs and the Rejects), and singing about living on council estates. Yes, that's much worse than wearing a fucking swastika isn't it, you poncy arsehole.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Kankurette on April 28, 2021, 09:24:34 AM
Gasp! Not council estates!
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Ignatius_S on April 28, 2021, 04:24:52 PM
McLaren was just (as with so many things) pretending to have come up with something that he'd actually seen on his holidays (in this case, Ron Asheton of the Stooges wearing SS uniforms on stage)….

Re: lifting ideas - Matlock commented that if you came up with an idea (e.g for the King’s Road shop), McLaren would be dismissive, but in say a couple of weeks, the idea was realised and no acknowledgement ever given where it had come from. That said, various people have said that McLaren was essentially obsessed with Nazi imagery and symbols, so suspect there was something at play deeper psychologically than nicking an idea he thought was good.

That kind of gear had wider currency - e.g. One of the members of The Sweet indulged in ‘Nazi chic’ and on one Top of the Pops performance wore a Swastika armband - so would be loathe to state a single example as a sole influence.

McLaren and Westwood made costumes for films - one of their creations was the short dress adorned with crucifix and swastika for Ken Russell’s Mahler and which so features so predominantly in stills and posters, which I suspect influenced the clothes later sold at SEX.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: thecuriousorange on April 28, 2021, 04:43:00 PM
One in a Million by Guns n Roses would be a good song, if only we could see about changing some of those lyrics.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: DrGreggles on April 28, 2021, 09:56:22 PM
One in a Million by Guns n Roses would be a good song, if only we could see about changing some of those lyrics.

To be fair to Axl Rose (and I don't like being fair to Axl Rose), isn't that written from the PoV of a kid from a hick town arriving in the big city for the first time?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on April 28, 2021, 10:02:48 PM
To be fair to Axl Rose (and I don't like being fair to Axl Rose), isn't that written from the PoV of a kid from a hick town arriving in the big city for the first time?
Quote
I used words like police and n****rs because you're not allowed to use the word 'n****r.' Why can black people go up to each other and say, 'n****r,' but when a white guy does it all of a sudden it's a big putdown? I don't like boundaries of any kind. I don't like being told what I can and what I can't say. I used the word 'n****r' because it's a word to describe somebody that is basically a pain in your life, a problem. The word 'n****r' doesn't necessarily mean black. Doesn't John Lennon have a song "Woman Is the N****r of the World"? There's a rap group, N.W.A. – N****rs With Attitude. I mean, they're proud of that word. More power to them.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: McChesney Duntz on April 28, 2021, 10:05:48 PM
To be fair, ol' W. Axl appears to be on the side of the righteous these days, and I'm sure would repudiate those lyrics now. (If you had told 1990 me that Axl would be the good one and Morrissey... well, say no more...)
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on April 29, 2021, 12:25:18 AM
Without wishing to rehash the Morrissey thread, 'Bengali In Platforms' and "all reggae is vile" and "you have to be black to get played on daytime Radio 1" were all before 1990.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Brundle-Fly on April 29, 2021, 09:03:19 AM
Without wishing to rehash the Morrissey thread, 'Bengali In Platforms' and "all reggae is vile" and "you have to be black to get played on daytime Radio 1" were all before 1990.

I'll only defend Morrissey on one of those crimes. There is a beloved poster on CaB who thinks all reggae is vile but they're vehemently anti-racist. Some people just really really don't like reggae. I feel sorry for them.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: SteveDave on April 29, 2021, 09:11:56 AM
I'll only defend Morrissey on one of those crimes. There is a beloved poster on CaB who thinks all reggae is vile but they're vehemently anti-racist. Some people just really really don't like reggae. I feel sorry for them.

Am I beloved? Shucks guys.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Brundle-Fly on April 29, 2021, 11:07:07 AM
Sorry, there are two beloved posters who think etc
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Johnboy on April 29, 2021, 12:34:22 PM
Japanese Boy by Aneka

ah, those 1981 chart toppers, eh?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: xxxx xxx x xxx on April 29, 2021, 02:27:23 PM
I'll only defend Morrissey on one of those crimes. There is a beloved poster on CaB who thinks all reggae is vile but they're vehemently anti-racist. Some people just really really don't like reggae. I feel sorry for them.

Also, he didn’t say all reggae is vile - it was one of those end-of-year questionnaire things in the NME, and for ‘favourite reggae record’ he answered ‘reggae is vile’.

There’s sort of a subtle difference, but I’m darned if I can put my finger on it.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Brundle-Fly on April 29, 2021, 03:21:58 PM
He later claimed he was misheard and he'd actually said, 'Reggae is wild'.  You wag, Moz.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: boki on April 29, 2021, 05:31:14 PM
He was saying "Boooooo-yaka"
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on April 29, 2021, 05:43:07 PM
He actually said "all reggae is Kurt Weill".

However, as The Beatles noted about Enoch Powell, he "don't dig no Pakistani." Infact, even pre-Smiths he wrote to a pen-pal that “I don’t hate Pakistanis, but I dislike them immensely.”
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: xxxx xxx x xxx on April 29, 2021, 06:15:45 PM
Speaking of the P-word...I hate to grass The Slits up because they were fantastic, but the Peel Session version of ‘Shoplifting’ had the line “Mr Paki won’t lose much, and we’ll have dinner tonight” (amended to “Babylon won’t lose much” for the album).
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on April 29, 2021, 07:20:45 PM
Actually reggae is fairly dull. That's a sweeping statement because there's some great music that's come out of Jamaica and the surrounding islands, but for me as it gets slower post Blue Beat it gets duller. I love the uptempo Ska stuff of the 60s and the funky rock steady sounds of the early 70s, like Toots, but I always felt that through the 70s the music got slower, duller, and swamped with echoing guitars.

I should point out that I'm a bigger racist than Morrissey.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: xxxx xxx x xxx on April 29, 2021, 09:39:23 PM
There’s a bit of a difference between ‘fairly dull’ and ‘vile’ though.  Anyone who could genuinely call reggae vile is a bit of a wrong ‘un in my book.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: jobotic on April 29, 2021, 09:58:36 PM
Yeah but it's Morrissey innit?

I heard that Nick Griffin reckons Tuvan Throat Singing "sounds awful to these Anglo-Saxon ears". Bit suspect.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on April 29, 2021, 11:12:54 PM
Mozza also said all reggae is black supremacism, which would be a shock to white or mixed reggae acts.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: gib on April 29, 2021, 11:47:19 PM
struggling to think of a single example of black supremacism in reggae
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kngen on April 30, 2021, 03:48:31 AM
struggling to think of a single example of black supremacism in reggae

Well, if you were to interpret 'uhuru' as being 'freedom' but from a specifically black/African perspective (e.g. the liberation of African countries from British colonial rule, such as Kenya in 1963) then Black Uhuru suggests a kind of tautological 'super-double freedom from whitey' that could be interpreted as black supremacist if you're as drunk and bored as I am now, and also not entirely serious. 

Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Travis Leisure on May 02, 2021, 09:54:42 AM
Ryan Cooder, fresh from exploiting the living shit out of the Buena Vista social club - appropriated "Chinito, Chinito" a racist Mexican folk song calling on Chinese to "toca la malaca" and "lava la lopa".

Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 02, 2021, 10:01:46 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/mqm8UbbXS0qALrJIykduoA-ai6o=/fit-in/600x607/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1700928-1283726485.jpeg.jpg)

Err..
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 02, 2021, 10:50:41 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/mqm8UbbXS0qALrJIykduoA-ai6o=/fit-in/600x607/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1700928-1283726485.jpeg.jpg)

Err..
Hence this release by James Brown and the JBs.
https://www.superthrowbackparty.net/2015/01/who-is-above-average-black-band-aabb.html?m=1
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Astronaut Omens on May 02, 2021, 11:55:38 AM
struggling to think of a single example of black supremacism in reggae
The Rasta/'conscious' style of reggae lyrics is hard to pin down to a precise ideology- its a mixture of positions that include black nationalism, Afrocentricism, Garveyism as well as Rastafari.. I think its fair to say that sometimes there is an implicit black supremacist viewpoint there, for example in songs which recast the Israelites in the Old Testament as black, implying, presumably that black people are God's chosen people, e.g. Rod Taylor's Ethiopian Kings.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OoIA3iQUiLU
This song is still a bit equivocal though, because it still name-checks the more mainstream idea of equal rights.
Probably the most widely circulated and unequivocal bit of black supremacism in pop muisic is Wu-Tang Clan's sermon-like Wu-Revolution,  influenced by Nation of Islam beliefs:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rbQ8V1Ul67A
Quote from:  Wu
We are original man, the Asiatic Black man
The maker, the owner, the cream of the planet Earth
Father of civilization and daughter of the universe....

...and then you got the five per cent
Who are the poor righteous teachers
Who do not believe in the teachings of the ten percent
Who is all wise and know who the true and living god is
And teach that the true and living god is a supreme being black man from Asia
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on May 02, 2021, 12:39:26 PM
A literal reading of foundational Rastafarianism could be black supremacist, but to apply that to the whole of reggae is itself racist: 'these particular Jamaicans are racist so all reggae is racist'. It would be like saying all white music is white supremacist because it originated in Jim Crow America and there are still some racist country acts.

But any slack you could cut Morrissey for one particular quote is negated when you compile all his quotes. It's the overall pattern of the rastas, Chinese and Asians being portrayed as 'subspecies', non-British, not belonging, and taking over spaces that should belong to whites. Then the political allegiances he has formed in the last few years make all past statements unable to be interpreted any other way.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Astronaut Omens on May 02, 2021, 02:49:05 PM
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to defend Moz, the 'subspecies' comment in particular shows he's completely gone through the looking-glass, I was just responding to gib's comment.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kngen on May 02, 2021, 03:04:45 PM
But any slack you could cut Morrissey for one particular quote is negated when you compile all his quotes. It's the overall pattern of the rastas, Chinese and Asians being portrayed as 'subspecies', non-British, not belonging, and taking over spaces that should belong to whites. Then the political allegiances he has formed in the last few years make all past statements unable to be interpreted any other way.

I do wonder if the odious sentiments in Bengali in Platforms ('live is hard enough when you belong here') flew under the radar for so long because it's such a shit song[1] (and I can't be the only one that skipped it when listening to Viva Hate). I wish he'd just gone all in with The Last of the Famous International Racists as his big coming out, and I could have dispensed with any continuing engagement there and then.
 1. If I want to make myself sad, I imagine what Vini Reilly's reaction was when he heard his music behind that load of pish
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 02, 2021, 03:16:59 PM
Burning Spear's Marcus Garvey, one of the best things ever done by anyone in any media, is an explicit endorsement of an ideology that has counted as a supremacist movement in many western nations.

The Congos sublime Heart of the Congos in addition to a few anti-gay songs, contains songs like "Ark of the Covenant" which, while not explicitly saying that everyone who is not Black is eternally damned, stress the huge amount of repentence and spiritual reckoning needed by everyone who isn't Black when judgement comes.

The chances of Morrissey having heard either of these records in the mid 80s: 0%

If I want to make myself sad, I imagine what Vini Reilly's reaction was when he heard his music behind that load of pish

Allegedly intended as an angry punk song for The Queen is Dead, then rewritten as a b-side and abandoned by the Smiths.

The fact that this material was floating around for years and various members or producers were veto-ing it suggests Morrissey's worst opinions were already out in the open. I always thought of "Bengali" as being a deeply prejudiced and bigoted person's attempt at an anti-racist sentiment - a yes, life is hard for outsiders everywhere sentiment, Morrissey clearly thinks he's being generous and warmhearted to the song's subject but still can't phrase it in any other way than shit about who belongs where. What would have been "no one belongs anywhere anywhere" becomes "deal with your own problems because we've got our own too" delivered like its coming from a place of profound empathy no one but him could understand.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on May 02, 2021, 04:33:17 PM
Hence this release by James Brown and the JBs.
https://www.superthrowbackparty.net/2015/01/who-is-above-average-black-band-aabb.html?m=1

I'd never seen that sleeve before and don't like it. I always assumed the JB's AABB was tounge-in-cheek acceptance of some white beardy Scotsmen making legitimately good funk.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kngen on May 03, 2021, 12:30:34 AM

Allegedly intended as an angry punk song for The Queen is Dead, then rewritten as a b-side and abandoned by the Smiths.

The fact that this material was floating around for years and various members or producers were veto-ing it suggests Morrissey's worst opinions were already out in the open.

I had no idea. That is shocking/fascinating. Is there any record of this anywhere?

Quote
I always thought of "Bengali" as being a deeply prejudiced and bigoted person's attempt at an anti-racist sentiment - a yes, life is hard for outsiders everywhere sentiment, Morrissey clearly thinks he's being generous and warmhearted to the song's subject but still can't phrase it in any other way than shit about who belongs where.

Absolutely, he betrays so much with his choice of words. It could have easily have been 'life is hard enough when you are from here' - the cadence might be a little laboured (and the sentiment a smidgen less hateful), but we're hardly dealing with top-notching lyricism in the rest of the song. What a cunt.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 03, 2021, 12:50:31 AM
I had no idea. That is shocking/fascinating. Is there any record of this anywhere?

A demo version from after the Strangeways sessions was with one of the big Morrissey leaks, although Marr isn't on it so it barely counts as a Smiths track. Same lyrics but not really the same song, its a shitty girl group thing much like the Cilla cover with Morrissey playing up the "ben-gaaal-iii" accented bit in the chorus and the infamous "life is hard enough when you belong here" line is already present. Its on youtube. No idea if there is evidence of an earlier version but evidence enough that he was proud of the lyric enough that he tried to fit it to several different songs.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on May 03, 2021, 12:51:36 AM
I think it was after The Queen Is Dead. Marr had already left and Ivor Perry did the guitar part.

https://smiths.fandom.com/wiki/Bengali_in_Platforms

The Youtube version has some lovely guitar fills by Vini Reilly but, as kngen says above, Vini must have been fucking mortified by the lyrics.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 03, 2021, 12:54:34 AM
Imagine finding a tape marked RARE UNRELEASED SMITHS SONGS and then you check it and Marr's name appears nowhere and then you check it again "BENGALI IN PLATFORMS" TAKES 1 - 4
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Jockice on May 03, 2021, 09:13:01 AM
Imagine finding a tape marked RARE UNRELEASED SMITHS SONGS and then you check it and Marr's name appears nowhere and then you check it again "BENGALI IN PLATFORMS" TAKES 1 - 4

And it's also marked The National Front Disco. To be played at.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 03, 2021, 04:56:31 PM
Can't find where I read the song was demoed for Queen first. Possibly on the old Morrissey lyrics page? Maybe just Perry saying the song had different arrangement before and extrapolating from there?

The least PC thing to have a Mandela effect about.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: gib on May 05, 2021, 04:23:59 PM
Lovely sunny morning here and i decided to get one of the kids out of bed by asking alexa to play at full volume The Sun Has Got His Hat On.

i won't be doing that again, had no idea it features the n word
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Mr Trumpet on May 05, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There's a bit of racism in this Peter Wyngarde classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY26l5SAxJs

It's not the worst thing about the song.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Famous Mortimer on May 05, 2021, 05:13:00 PM
I do wonder if the odious sentiments in Bengali in Platforms ('live is hard enough when you belong here') flew under the radar for so long because it's such a shit song[1] (and I can't be the only one that skipped it when listening to Viva Hate). I wish he'd just gone all in with The Last of the Famous International Racists as his big coming out, and I could have dispensed with any continuing engagement there and then.
 1. If I want to make myself sad, I imagine what Vini Reilly's reaction was when he heard his music behind that load of pish
I remember an interview with Cornershop, back in the 90s, where they specifically referenced that song as one of the reasons their hardcore Smiths fandom went off the boil somewhat.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 05, 2021, 05:45:10 PM
I remember an interview with Cornershop, back in the 90s, where they specifically referenced that song as one of the reasons their hardcore Smiths fandom went off the boil somewhat.

They used to play a medley of Bengali In Platforms, Asian Rut and The National Front Disco at gigs for a bit. Morrissey's response was to say, When I Was Born For The 7th Time was his favourite album of the year in '97. Just ask his mate, Sonya from Echobelly.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dr Rock on May 05, 2021, 06:33:35 PM
I've thought of a Scott Walker one. 10 points to the first person to get it.


Also he says 'faggot' in one song.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 05, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
I've thought of a Scott Walker one. 10 points to the first person to get it.


Also he says 'faggot' in one song.
I'm not advocating his use of the word (don't know if there's an equivalent in the Jacque Brel song) but that word, and "slapped our asses as if we were fags" are both, in my ears, sung in character.

Wracking my brain for the racist one.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dr Rock on May 05, 2021, 07:22:18 PM
Clue - it's another cover.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 05, 2021, 08:55:06 PM
Was it his cover of Skrewdriver's Hail The New Dawn that was the B side of the Brando (Dwellers On The Bluff) 7"?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Oz Oz Alice on May 05, 2021, 09:04:56 PM
I've thought of a Scott Walker one. 10 points to the first person to get it.


Also he says 'faggot' in one song.

Is it Reuben James from Til The Band Comes in?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 05, 2021, 09:05:53 PM
Clue - it's another cover.
Bloody hell this has me stumped. Reuben James?
Quote
All the folks around Madison County cussed your name
You're just a no-account, sharecropping colored man
Who would steal anything he can
Edit: Oz Oz Alice on the same wavelength.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 05, 2021, 09:10:03 PM
PS. I'd see this one as another song in character, quoting others:

Quote
All the folks around Madison County cussed your name
You're just a "no-account, sharecropping colored man
Who would steal anything he can"
Direct speech.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dr Rock on May 05, 2021, 09:27:19 PM
I wasn't thinking of that one.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 05, 2021, 09:33:15 PM
I wasn't thinking of that one.
Right. I've got it. Where Does Brown Begin?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kngen on May 05, 2021, 09:36:53 PM
They used to play a medley of Bengali In Platforms, Asian Rut and The National Front Disco at gigs for a bit. Morrissey's response was to say, When I Was Born For The 7th Time was his favourite album of the year in '97. Just ask his mate, Sonya from Echobelly.

Asian Rut, forgot about that one. Even though, superficially, it expresses sympathy to the protagonist, it really is just saying 'Oooh, wouldn't it just be better if we all stayed where we're supposed to' as much as Bengali in Platforms, with the brutal consequences of the final verse (and the whole of NF Disco, really) being a kind of 'what did you expect to happen?' fait accompli.

At least Ian Stewart had the courage of his convictions instead of wafting his hands around in a 'isn't this awful?' manner. Also, his songs got catchier the more racist he became.[1]
 1. Shit, what a giveaway!
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 05, 2021, 09:54:51 PM
"Asian Rut" is irredeemable, but without the context of Morrissey's other racist songs (not even counting his racist statements), "National Front Disco" would be great. If it came out of the blue I'd be hard put to say anything bad about it at all.

It seems like he's excoriating the "oh no our sons are being radicalised, how terrible for us" attitude that we see the liberal press now, as seeing radicalisation not as the reduction of individuals into irredeemable thugs and the actual violence visited on minorities, but as a loss to the communities that radicalised youths come from. There's this huge double standard in the American press around right wing radicalism where they condemn any and all attempt to understand why young white males are attracted to right wing groups beyond Twitter-grade "privilege, innit" shrugging yet they dwell and dwell on the impact of radicalisation on communities as if that has any importance whatsoever. Oh booo hooo hooo your cousin only talks in Pepes now, how terrible for you

It's a better version of XTC's "No Thugs In Our House" because it holds that ambiguity right up until the end, but now in context its just an elaborate excuse to have a song with the lyrics "England for the English" and I can't hear it any other way. It doesn't matter whether he thinks radicalisation is good or bad, its just an excuse to associate himself with the song's subject and say the line. Early 90s Morrissey was still capable of being extremely clever but there's not much intelligence on show, emotional or otherwise.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kngen on May 05, 2021, 10:05:43 PM
It's a better version of XTC's "No Thugs In Our House"

Yeah, it's very much of a piece, but I prefer XTC's take.

Quote
its just an excuse to associate himself with the song's subject

Not dissimilar to 'First of the Gang to Die', I suppose. A coquettish wink and nod to his diehards (except the skinheads tended to throw sharpened 50p coins at him, rather than the garlands that his Latino fans hurled - I wonder how reconciled that contradiction.)
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 05, 2021, 10:10:44 PM

It's a better version of XTC's "No Thugs In Our House" because it holds that ambiguity right up until the end, but now in context its just an elaborate excuse to have a song with the lyrics "England for the English" and I can't hear it any other way. It doesn't matter whether he thinks radicalisation is good or bad, its just an excuse to associate himself with the song's subject and say the line.


It isn't the Greeks, it's the Jews he's after.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 05, 2021, 10:17:47 PM
For every outright racist Morrissey song there's about three where he decries white supremacy and wrings his hands about imperial wars and police violence. It would be confounding if the narcissism wasn't so poorly disguised.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Echo Valley 2-6809 on May 05, 2021, 10:46:18 PM
Spice Girls - Spice Up Your Life:

Yellow man in Timbuktu

Shit at Geography as well.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Echo Valley 2-6809 on May 05, 2021, 10:49:11 PM
Speaking of Jagger...

Gold coast slave ship bound for cotton fields
Sold in a market down in New Orleans
Scarred old slaver knows he's doing alright
Hear him whip the women just around midnight

Brown sugar
How come you taste so good?
Brown sugar
Just like a young girl should

Drums beating, cold English blood runs hot
Lady of the house wonderin' where it's gonna stop
House boy knows that he's doing alright
You shoulda heard him just around midnight

Brown sugar
How come you taste so good, now?
Brown sugar
Just like a young girl should

Ah, get along, brown sugar
How come you taste so good
Ah, got me feelin' now, brown sugar
Just like a black girl should


Similarly, Grand Funk Railroad's 'Black Licorice':

Quote
Time, ain't on my side, I'm losin' it more each day.
Licorice, licorice.
She's got evil in her eyes, and catnip is her taste.
Licorice, licorice.
She wraps me up in her slender legs, her hot black skin to mine.
Licorice, licorice.
Ple ... ple ...please, don't touch me, oh, I know I'm dead this time.
Oh, oh, yeah ... licorice, yeah, black licorice.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Echo Valley 2-6809 on May 05, 2021, 11:01:37 PM
Variations of Queen's "No Synths Were Used In The Making Of This Record" boast appearing during times when rocks radio dominance was threatened by trends like funk, disco, hiphop, etc. Taking pride in no drum machines.
Did Queen do that as well? I was aware Collins put "No Fairlight was used in the making of this record" probably as a jibe to Peter Gabriel.
Queen started it.

The "no synthesisers" boast started on their eponymous first album in 1973, recorded in 1972. It was Brian May being precious about the trouble he took over various effects without relying on synths like other bands. Maybe he we snobbish about being lumped in with prog bands too, but anyway, unless he was having a go at Stevie Wonder and TONTO, I don't think there was anything more to it than that at the time.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on May 05, 2021, 11:33:42 PM
Agreed. He was simply annoyed at not being given due credit for how he layered the guitars.
Title: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dr Rock on May 06, 2021, 06:54:10 AM
50 points now on offer for Scott Walker's dated casual racism
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 06, 2021, 09:00:20 AM
50 points now on offer for Scott Walker's dated casual racism
I'm not going to sleep tonight...
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: jobotic on May 06, 2021, 09:19:46 AM
Jackie?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: phantom_power on May 06, 2021, 09:22:41 AM
50 points now on offer for Scott Walker's dated casual racism

Was it his original version of I'm That Type of N****, later covered by The Pharcyde?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 06, 2021, 10:33:46 AM
Yeah, it's very much of a piece, but I prefer XTC's take.

Not dissimilar to 'First of the Gang to Die', I suppose. A coquettish wink and nod to his diehards (except the skinheads tended to throw sharpened 50p coins at him, rather than the garlands that his Latino fans hurled - I wonder how reconciled that contradiction.)

If you're referring to Madstock '92, I was right down the front and didn't see any sharpened 50ps lobbed about by skins or this so-called barrage of bottles thrown at him. There was a bit of booing from the fans (of all different degrees of hair growth) but only because many didn't want to hear fey indie music at a Madness comeback gig, especially after Ian Dury & The Blockheads had just warmed up the crowd stupendously. Morrissey's billing was completely misjudged by Moz management or the organisers there. There was definitely a minority of old far right trouble makers in attendance that I won't deny but to say all these old fascists were riled up because Morrissey draped himself in their precious flag and had a backdrop of two skinhead girls I think is nonsense, They might have felt a bit patronised, perhaps? I felt a morsel of sympathy for all the Morrissey fans who had bought tickets for the Sunday gig after he'd bailed. They must've been fuming.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dr Rock on May 06, 2021, 10:38:04 AM
Jackie?

Go on...
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 06, 2021, 10:50:45 AM
Go on...

Spanish bum?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: SteveDave on May 06, 2021, 10:54:39 AM
"Locked up inside my opium den
Surrounded by some china men"
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dr Rock on May 06, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
"Locked up inside my opium den
Surrounded by some china men"

50 points to SteveDave!


Shame on the rest of you presumably going round saying Chinamen in 2021.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: jobotic on May 06, 2021, 11:25:42 AM
That's the bit I was referring to!

I should get some of those points.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dr Rock on May 06, 2021, 11:44:13 AM
Ok you can have 50 points also. And an ice cream.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: jobotic on May 06, 2021, 02:14:52 PM
Yes!
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 06, 2021, 03:48:37 PM
It's not racist if it's also a cricket delivery.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: phantom_power on May 06, 2021, 10:11:36 PM
50 points to SteveDave!


Shame on the rest of you presumably going round saying Chinamen in 2021.

Maybe it was talking about figurines

Anyway, Jacques Brel should take the blame for most of that as he wrote the original lyrics
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: gib on May 06, 2021, 10:16:36 PM
If you're referring to Madstock '92, I was right down the front and didn't see any sharpened 50ps lobbed about by skins or this so-called barrage of bottles thrown at him. There was a bit of booing from the fans (of all different degrees of hair growth) but only because many didn't want to hear fey indie music at a Madness comeback gig, especially after Ian Dury & The Blockheads had just warmed up the crowd stupendously. Morrissey's billing was completely misjudged by Moz management or the organisers there. There was definitely a minority of old far right trouble makers in attendance that I won't deny but to say all these old fascists were riled up because Morrissey draped himself in their precious flag and had a backdrop of two skinhead girls I think is nonsense, They might have felt a bit patronised, perhaps? I felt a morsel of sympathy for all the Morrissey fans who had bought tickets for the Sunday gig after he'd bailed. They must've been fuming.

i reckon he always wanted to be accepted by your skins but his inability to enjoy reggae got in the way of things
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 07, 2021, 06:30:58 AM
Maybe it was talking about figurines

Anyway, Jacques Brel should take the blame for most of that as he wrote the original lyrics

Tout seul au fond de ma fumerie
Pour un public de vieux Chinois
All alone at the bottom of my den
For an audience of old Chinese

I don't imagine Walker did the translation, Mort Shulman wasn't it? Wonder if it could be improved? (ie made less racist).
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: phantom_power on May 07, 2021, 08:08:51 AM
Is it racist to say there were some Chinese people in an opium den? I mean it is all in character anyway so any racism is on the part of the narrator, not the author
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 07, 2021, 08:19:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKtNawQ3cxM

Still, it's got a good beat.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Dr Rock on May 07, 2021, 08:19:48 AM
No, it's Chinaman or Chinamen that's the offensive term. But at the time of recording I'm not even sure that memo had gone round yet.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: phantom_power on May 07, 2021, 09:56:24 AM
The character narrating the song is a reprobate selling "authentic queers and phony virgins". I don't think it is racism to have a character be racist
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on May 07, 2021, 09:59:42 AM
Doesn't Brel's couplet imply he's the only white man in the den? Like saying everyone else in my crack den was black?
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: daf on May 07, 2021, 10:27:34 AM
No, it's Chinaman or Chinamen that's the offensive term. But at the time of recording I'm not even sure that memo had gone round yet.

On similar line's there's a rather clever bit of wordplay in George Formby's wartime sequel to "Chinese Laundry Blues" that'd probably get chucked out these days : Mr. Wu's An Air Raid Warden Now (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCdPuwyfnZQ)

"So if you've got a chink in your window, (hey), you'll have another one at your door!!"

In his defence, he didn't write it, though I don't think there was any malice involved . . . unlike this one, where he puts Anglo-French relations back 1000 years : I'm a Froggie (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WizaYsKSMY)
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: JesusAndYourBush on May 07, 2021, 12:02:47 PM
Scott Saunders - "Clap Clap", from the 1943 short film Playtime For Workers. (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487730/)
The one IMDB review notes that Scott Saunders song had been edited out of the copy he has. This is why. (https://soundcloud.com/spicy9999/scott-saunders-clap-clap-playtime-for-workers-1943/s-GGC8gXmV5wV)
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on May 07, 2021, 05:50:57 PM
Seems to be Sanders, not Saunders.

https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2ba6f2d743
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Voltan (Man of Steel) on May 07, 2021, 08:58:32 PM
Not in the music itself, more a bit of casual racism of the West Brom stadium announcer before their match against Dinamo Bucharest in 1968: “Well, they’m the same, ay they?”

The Baggies found themselves playing Dinamo Bucharest at home. Unable to locate a copy of the Romanian national anthem, the announcer went for "close enough" and thus it was that the Romanians trotted out to the sound of Kenny Ball and His Jazzmen's rendition of "Midnight In Moscow".
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Satchmo Distel on May 07, 2021, 09:17:49 PM
Scott Saunders - "Clap Clap", from the 1943 short film Playtime For Workers. (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487730/)
The one IMDB review notes that Scott Saunders song had been edited out of the copy he has. This is why. (https://soundcloud.com/spicy9999/scott-saunders-clap-clap-playtime-for-workers-1943/s-GGC8gXmV5wV)

Three songs were omitted so it may not have been for racism:

Quote
The songs omitted from this reissue version are 'The Japanese, the Jerries and the Wops' (Scott Sanders), 'Jealousy' (The Cavendish Three), and 'United We Stand' (Maurice Taylor).

http://collections-search.bfi.org.uk/web/Details/ChoiceFilmWorks/150253905

Same guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg31kTi01Rc

https://www.discogs.com/artist/2542779-Scott-Sanders-2
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Echo Valley 2-6809 on May 08, 2021, 01:09:13 PM
There is a beloved poster on CaB who thinks all reggae is vile but they're vehemently anti-racist.

Burchill posts on here?  https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/reggae-was-sexist-and-homophobic-unesco-safeguarding-it-is-ludicrous-and-conservative
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: xxxx xxx x xxx on May 08, 2021, 01:20:12 PM
Not in the music itself, more a bit of casual racism of the West Brom stadium announcer before their match against Dinamo Bucharest in 1968: “Well, they’m the same, ay they?”

The Baggies found themselves playing Dinamo Bucharest at home. Unable to locate a copy of the Romanian national anthem, the announcer went for "close enough" and thus it was that the Romanians trotted out to the sound of Kenny Ball and His Jazzmen's rendition of "Midnight In Moscow".

Not so sure that's racist, but it's very funny!
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Kankurette on May 08, 2021, 07:06:36 PM
Burchill is also homophobic tbf.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: willbo on May 09, 2021, 11:03:01 PM
not the most PC band anyway but Aerosmith's "taste of India" from their late 90s album "9 lives" probably wouldn't fly today. It's just a sexy song about being with a "tantric princess" who is "spicy as vindaloo"
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: kalowski on May 10, 2021, 06:30:42 AM
not the most PC band anyway but Aerosmith's "taste of India" from their late 90s album "9 lives" probably wouldn't fly today. It's just a sexy song about being with a "tantric princess" who is "spicy as vindaloo"
A hot curry is the one thing guaranteed to put me off any sexual activity.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: Mr Banlon on May 30, 2021, 05:01:57 PM
Not casual racism, but the well-meaning lyrics to 'Upa Neguinho' are a bit dated and patronising today. Especially in the literal translation from Potruguese to English.
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: PlanktonSideburns on May 30, 2021, 11:43:37 PM
Take a journey back in time
Leave the western world behind
Cross the mountains to Peking
Where the paper lanterns gently swing
[...]
The Chinese way
Who knows what they know?
The Chinese legend grows
[...]
Standing at the master's side
There with patience he confides
Secret knowledge, sacred ways
Pearls of wisdom from the dragon days
😬

Is that rush?

I imagined it in geddy Lee's voice
Title: Re: Dated Casual Racism In Popular Music
Post by: sutin on June 26, 2021, 09:06:38 PM
As a staunch fan of The Stranglers I always hated I Feel Like A Wog.

Whilst it can be taken as an anti-racism lyric (which has always been Hugh’s explanation) the fact of the matter is the word was shocking and hateful even then and was chosen to be deliberately provocative.

I’ve seen JJ claim it was an insult levelled at him when he was a child due to being the son of French parents but even still, in the wider context of what most people assume that word  to mean and the effect the people that use it intend to have I’m afraid that cuts no dice with me.

I don’t think for a second the band have racist inclinations it’s just a woefully misguided attempt to shock whilst making a point that, at best, can be interpreted as extremely clumsy.

The worst aspect really is they’ve just doubled down in later years and were still playing it right up until I saw them a couple of years ago. It made me physically wince. Hated it.

I wish they’d take a step back and reappraise it and say something along the lines of “Whilst we think the message the lyrics were trying to convey was an anti-racist one we understand that public moods change, the context of words shift over time and sensibilities people in the late seventies had are not the same as they have now in modern society so with that in mind we won’t be playing it anymore.”

But they haven’t, and I assume they won’t.

I’m happy to try and at least defend the various accusations of misogyny levelled at the group over the years (a lot of their more ‘provocative’ lyrics are far more intelligent and cutting than a lot of people give them credit for) but IFLAW is the one thing by them that I find totally indefensible.

This is quite similar to how DEVO never stopped playing Mongoloid.