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Forums => Oscillations => Topic started by: The Mollusk on May 11, 2021, 10:47:32 AM

Title: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 11, 2021, 10:47:32 AM
Let's have a thread on YOUR musical heroes, ones who've had prolific and/or influential careers, and whether or not they are now PAST IT. Either end of the scale is valid here, for example we can also discuss artists/acts who should by all rights be PAST IT but are bafflingly enjoying one or another career high points at present.

On that positive tip, I'd say Sparks are among those acts who have really exceeded expectations, five decades into their career releasing two albums that would easily rank amongst their finest work, if not at least being broadly representative of their exact style of idiosyncratic, sardonic and extremely smart pop craft. Well done Ron and Russ!

On the other end, however, one artist who's very recently come to mind as someone whom I have no longer come to expect or even bother to hope for good new material, is Mike Patton. The Mr. Bungle revival was bizarrely revered by a great deal of their fan base and journalists alike, but I'm glad I wasn't alone on this forum in thinking that it was a tedious, pointless exercise in middle-aged indugence, and the latest Tomahawk album is further testament to his vastly dwindling talents and abilities. Fair enough, he's had a good run! But I refuse to sit back and wave a hand casually across any of his newer output and say that this is still the work of an active and forward-thinking genius. It's fucking pap.

There's another whose work is linked to Patton and who I similarly think is almost at the point of no return, and that's Justin Pearson, frontman of (in my eyes) legendary grindcore/hardcore outfits The Locust and Retox as well as other Three One G staples Head Wound City and Holy Molar. In recent years, he also formed the massively underwhelming hardcore supergroup Dead Cross with Patton (and Dave Lombardo, another whose work is slowly edging towards the pastures), as well as the naff hip hop group Planet B (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSvE1kTUJUM) with once-legendary rapper Kool Keith (yeah, he's very much due a panning) and the frankly fucking shite industrial project Satanic Planet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrktr5TpmlE) alongside Lombardo and ... wait for it ... founder of the Satanic Temple, Lucien Greaves. It's just rubbish! The producer Luke Henshaw is definitely to blame in part, his contributions across those latter two projects being very much middle of the road and uninspired industrial sampling, but overall I find absolutely nothing confrontational, fresh, exciting or even just fun or engaging about any of this stuff.

Kool Keith has of course been past it for years now. I used to casually follow his output in the hopes of finding some rare flickers of his former glories but after the dreadful unnecessary guff of the Dr. Octagon comeback album I completely gave up.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Chicory on May 11, 2021, 01:15:22 PM
Kool Keith has of course been past it for years now. I used to casually follow his output in the hopes of finding some rare flickers of his former glories but after the dreadful unnecessary guff of the Dr. Octagon comeback album I completely gave up.

His pizzas aren't as good as they used to be either.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Oz Oz Alice on May 11, 2021, 02:07:45 PM
Nick Cave - Definitely not past it, having made some of his best records to date in the last ten years after he got the embarassing hand-clappy "woo yeah rock and roll!" Grinderman-isms out of his system and stepped boldly into the late 20th century and started to embrace the use of the kind of electronic textures. Carnage is very much a triumph, and Ghosteen is my joint favourite Cave record with Your Funeral, My Trial; just above Junkyard in my ranking.

Xiu Xiu - THe Xiu Xiu record from this year was disturbingly normal and for the most part could be pretty much any mildly quirkier than usual indie rock band but how on earth do you follow Girl With A Basket of Fruit? That record really shook me up when I first heard it and following releases like the Twin Peaks covers album, Forget and Angel Guts I can forgive Jamie Stewart a blip. As long as he doesn't make a habit of making records that don't frighten me. Verdict - possibly past it but it'd be fool-hardy to think I can guess where he's going next.

Consumer Electronics - To my mind the work Philip Best is currently doing with Sarah Froelich and Russell Haswell is much braver than continuing to yell about how YOU'RE ALL CUNTS over the kind of white noise hiss that sounds cool until you actually sit down with a synthesizer and realise how easy it is to do that. I like that the last few Consumer Electronics records featuring technoid rhythms and Sarah doing a lot of the actual power-electronics type vocalising and leaving Philip Best to mutter menacingly have pissed on the chips of the people who got into Whitehouse because they're craven misogynistic edge-lord arseholes who have no idea of the intent that Bennett, Best and Sotos set out to make this material with. That plus his Amphetamine Sulphate publishing imprint, I'm going to say that Philip Best is very much not past it.

Seconding Mike Patton being utterly past it, would throw Josh Homme in too but he's just low-hanging fruit at this point. The man's an embarrassment.


Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 11, 2021, 02:50:01 PM
Josh Homme is a fucking useless twat!
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: bgmnts on May 11, 2021, 02:52:53 PM
Rush: one is dead and they're retired a few years ago.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: GoblinAhFuckScary on May 11, 2021, 03:01:44 PM
i felt this way about the fall, but i do regret never going to see them
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Norton Canes on May 11, 2021, 03:19:55 PM
Depeche Mode: sadly, yes. Plenty of people say they were never the same once Alan Wilder left but I've always thought the the drop in quality of their subsequent two albums, Ultra and Exciter, could be put down to finding their feet as a trio and an unfortunate case of using a producer they didn't connect with respectively. And their next two albums, with Ben Hillier at the helm, while not being especially consistent were actually their best post-Wilder long players. But they really went off a cliff with their latest efforts, Delta Machine in 2013 and 2017's Spirit, two dirge-ridden slogs where most songs are subsumed by their growing penchant for mid-tempo swampy blues plods and Martin Gore's ear for a tune (not to mention some different rhymes) appear to have all but deserted him. In fact the best songs on both these LPs have been by Dave Gahan and his co-writers.   

Speaking on which have you seen Gahan perform recently? I know his energetic displays have always relied more on enthusiasm than style but these days he minces around the stage like a Dick Emery character. Someone should have a word.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Crumb on May 11, 2021, 03:56:21 PM
Autechre No. It seemed like they had gone a bit shit when elseq was 4 hours of widdling nothing, but they somehow turned it around with NTS sessions, 8 hours of better structured and more interesting widdling. The more condensed albums they released last year were very good (especially Sign). Helps for me that they've embraced the potential of digital music for escaping the contraints of length and release cycles.

Pixies. Yes, so past it they're basically mummified, and cannot become more past it.

Once an artist starts getting in cycle of sequential albums hailed as a 'return to form' they're almost certainly past it.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: badaids on May 11, 2021, 04:18:40 PM
The Cure, who I loved dearly and learned to the play the guitar by listening to them on cassettes bought in Woolworths over and over again, have been an absolute embarrassment for the last 66% of their career. I always say it but it’s hard to think of another band that fell of the very high cliff that was everything before 1994.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 11, 2021, 05:01:43 PM
Autechre No. It seemed like they had gone a bit shit when elseq was 4 hours of widdling nothing, but they somehow turned it around with NTS sessions, 8 hours of better structured and more interesting widdling.
Interesting, I feel exactly the other way: I love elseq (except 2), whereas NTS I find excruciatingly boring for the most part.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 11, 2021, 05:07:40 PM
Saw Autechre at hallowe'en a few years back. Wasn't particularly hyped to go see two baldies look at their computers but I loved every second.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 11, 2021, 05:38:48 PM
I don't think I've like anything Lolina has done since The Smoke.

:(
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: turnstyle on May 11, 2021, 05:42:53 PM
Radiohead - These days Yorke looks like a miserable mollusc, but I can't fault the guys music output, still a great bunch of lads (TM). No embarrassment here.

Morrissey - The thing that really, really pisses me off is that the man can't stop being a total unsavoury bellend, to the extent that I can't even listen to the Smiths any more, which makes me extremely sad, as they were such a linchpin of my teenage years and beyond. And his music is shit now, obvs.

Divine Comedy - Consistently brilliant still. Yer man Hannon is the safest pair of hands in the biz. They're so safe I'd happily let him check my man orbs for lumps. Office Politics was fucking ace. Every Divine Comedy album feels like a best of, but it's all new songs. Thanks Hannon, Thannon.

Gary Glitter - Can't fault him, ledge.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: DolphinFace on May 11, 2021, 05:48:45 PM
We'll I've waited about 12 years for a kings of convenience album and their new single is shit. Not heard the album yet mind.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 11, 2021, 05:50:36 PM

Once an artist starts getting in cycle of sequential albums hailed as a 'return to form' they're almost certainly past it.

Best album since Scary Monstersitus
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 11, 2021, 06:58:11 PM

Once an artist starts getting in cycle of sequential albums hailed as a 'return to form' they're almost certainly past it.

Or 'back-to-basics'? Sometimes translates as 'We can't afford that orchestra again' or 'the progressive rock direction wasn't a hit with the fans'
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: rue the polywhirl on May 11, 2021, 07:34:12 PM
The Who. Their 2019 self-titled is one of the worst things I have heard. The sound of maximum doddering infirmity. I also get the lingering feeling that Paul McCartney might be a little past it. I didn’t mind his very last album too much but he seems to have got a facelift recently that has made him look like the alien from Mac and Me. I suppose I should correct that to even more like Mac and Me. Or Macca and Me.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 11, 2021, 07:40:03 PM
I thought Radiohead's last album was their best. It's the only one that doesn't have at least one track that makes me want to throw a sink out of the window. Plus Thom Yorke's total creepy old fuck phase is great. "what if the singing potato mascot for Smith's Crisps was a sex pervert" is his best look since his band were the bishonen Pixies. Solo records are dross tho.

The Who. Their 2019 self-titled is one of the worst things I have heard. The sound of maximum doddering infirmity.

Amazing they've got worse than Endless Wire. Townsends vocals on that are choice. Sounds buried alive.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 11, 2021, 07:44:45 PM
I haven't enjoyed a Radiohead record since Amnesiac. I think I listened to A Moon Shaped Pool once, the string arrangements were nice, but I'm not convinced they've actually written a new song for a long time. I always enjoyed Thom's versatility as a singer, he has a pretty powerful voice, so I'm baffled by his decision to go into the high pitched whine on every single song these days.

I still like 'Reckoner', mind. God knows where they pulled that one from.

Underworld had a couple of shaky albums, the dreadful Barking and the pleasant but largely Underworld-by-numbers Barbara Barbara, so I was delighted when they managed to release a 6CD boxset of new material and most of it was excellent. Not bad for a couple of guys 40+ years into their careers.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: lankyguy95 on May 11, 2021, 07:51:08 PM
A Moon Shaped Pool had a great opener, a great closer and some broadly pleasant but unexciting stuff in between.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: thecuriousorange on May 11, 2021, 07:57:50 PM
Neil Young was great, then past it, then had a comeback, then drifted back into past it, before settling into the legend status he enjoys today. See also, Bob Dylan.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 11, 2021, 07:59:48 PM
I thought Radiohead's last album was their best. It's the only one that doesn't have at least one track that makes me want to throw a sink out of the window. Plus Thom Yorke's total creepy old fuck phase is great. "what if the singing potato mascot for Smith's Crisps was a sex pervert" is his best look since his band were the bishonen Pixies. Solo records are dross tho.

Amazing they've got worse than Endless Wire. Townsends vocals on that are choice. Sounds buried alive.

At least Endless Wire was an attempt at something new, the last album sounded like The Who by numbers. But not the album, The Who By Numbers.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Goldentony on May 11, 2021, 11:01:19 PM

Consumer Electronics - To my mind the work Philip Best is currently doing with Sarah Froelich and Russell Haswell is much braver than continuing to yell about how YOU'RE ALL CUNTS over the kind of white noise hiss that sounds cool until you actually sit down with a synthesizer and realise how easy it is to do that. I like that the last few Consumer Electronics records featuring technoid rhythms and Sarah doing a lot of the actual power-electronics type vocalising and leaving Philip Best to mutter menacingly have pissed on the chips of the people who got into Whitehouse because they're craven misogynistic edge-lord arseholes who have no idea of the intent that Bennett, Best and Sotos set out to make this material with. That plus his Amphetamine Sulphate publishing imprint, I'm going to say that Philip Best is very much not past it.


We got asked to play with these, I knew we'd never end up doing it because of the shit PB/WB and the rest have been involved in years back (in particular that dodgy old IPHAR comp) but part of me was sort of excited about the possibility of getting to sit in a 12 by 12 foot concrete box backstage with him doing his nut in about throwing chairs at Madonna in the 80s.

Those first few live actions that Susan Lawly used to sell, all up to the first break up, are fascinating to me, still, real just out of the blue fucked up sounds and situations pushed to the limit, so im glad PBs doing well still anyway.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Goldentony on May 11, 2021, 11:02:40 PM
Neil Young was great, then past it, then had a comeback, then drifted back into past it, before settling into the legend status he enjoys today. See also, Bob Dylan.

NY problem is loads of his albums lately have been spectacular unreleased stuff from the 70s so he can trick you into thinking he might still be able to write something of the quality of 'PAC MAN FEVER' and other hit singles
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 11, 2021, 11:24:58 PM
The last great song Ray Davies wrote was Come Dancing in 1982. He's written some decent stuff since then, but the pickings are slim.

His lofty reputation is entirely based upon the work he produced in the '60s and '70s. But I don't begrudge him that, as pretty much everything he wrote during his prolific golden age was fantastic. Genius is finite. 
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: daf on May 12, 2021, 12:09:43 AM
The last great song Ray Davies wrote was Come Dancing in 1982.

I think Scattered (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iUPYCSKUS8) is even better (which would bump it up to 1993 for me)
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 12, 2021, 12:27:10 AM
The Mountain Goats - no, they’re just starting to heat up. Or stay hot I suppose. 4 records in 3 years, and some of my favourite stuff from their 25+ year catalogue is on them.

Stewart Lee is looking like an overripe pear in the fruit bowl (physically and metaphorically). He’s terrific but starting to go.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 12, 2021, 12:29:23 AM
I think Scattered (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iUPYCSKUS8) is even better (which would bump it up to 1993 for me)

That's a lovely song, yes, but as I say - slim pickings post-82.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 12, 2021, 07:17:48 AM
Stewart Lee is looking like an overripe pear in the fruit bowl (physically and metaphorically). He’s terrific but starting to go.

That song with Asian Dub Foundation was quite a low point I thought. Embarrassing dad rock shite which ten years ago could have easily been served up as some sort of parody of itself.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 12, 2021, 08:07:14 AM
That song with Asian Dub Foundation was quite a low point I thought. Embarrassing dad rock shite which ten years ago could have easily been served up as some sort of parody of itself.

"Coming over here, being the wrong side of fifty, taking the piss out of bigots and raising money for a refugee camp."
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 12, 2021, 08:11:03 AM
That's a lovely song, yes, but as I say - slim pickings post-82.

You said you liked Quiet Life too. I thought Working Man's Cafe was pretty good. Christ, that album was released fourteen fucking years ago.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: the science eel on May 12, 2021, 08:34:56 AM
Pixies. Yes, so past it they're basically mummified, and cannot become more past it.


It's especially sad with that lot, because they had a bit of mystery about them back in the day, the little fat bloke screaming about flying saucers and the super cool bassist going 'hey hey' and the shy guitarist. Now they've completely lost all of that magic, putting out unimaginative shit like 'Indie Cindy'.

It's not inevitable that bands lose their magic over time but I think for that to happen they need to be fuck-ups (Mark E). Or not release albums very often (VdGG).
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: amateur on May 12, 2021, 08:43:50 AM
Please, someone, get Weezer to stop.

Tough to imagine a band with further diminishing returns after Blue and Pinkerton, two of the best albums any band has ever released. Patchy from there, but moments of joy, particularly The White Album which was genuinely delightful.

After that, fucking hell. They just won't fucking stop. The Black Album isn't just the worst album Weezer have made, it's the worst album anyone has ever made. I've refused to listen to anything else they've made after that abomination, despite them probably being my favourite band on paper.

I'll see them when they do the inevitable Blue/Pinkerton tour but fuck everything else. Awful.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: phantom_power on May 12, 2021, 08:58:33 AM
That song with Asian Dub Foundation was quite a low point I thought. Embarrassing dad rock shite which ten years ago could have easily been served up as some sort of parody of itself.

Dad rock? I am not sure ADF could be described as that, and they just sampled his routine for the song. It wasn't a collaboration or anything

Guided By Voices are still plugging away at the same quality they have for the last 20 years or so. They never reach the heady heights of Alien Lanes/Bee Thousand but by no means past it
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 12, 2021, 09:16:59 AM
"Coming over here, being the wrong side of fifty, taking the piss out of bigots and raising money for a refugee camp."

Doesn’t change the fact that the song was total shite though.

Dad rock? I am not sure ADF could be described as that, and they just sampled his routine for the song. It wasn't a collaboration or anything

The song became a collaboration when Lee starred in the video mining along to his own routine. And I’m not saying ADF are dad rock, I’m saying the cringe factor of a middle aged bloke authorising what was once an entertaining and sharply written bit of satire to be reconstituted as a relatively context-free bit of “oi oi, bet this winds you up doesn’t it, bigots?” sentiment slapped on top of a tawdry and uninspired alt-dub groove was absolutely the modern equivalent of dad rock.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: buttgammon on May 12, 2021, 09:22:45 AM
Burial As per the recent thread, it's been a case of diminishing returns from him for a while now. I wouldn't write him off yet, but I'm a bit apprehensive about hearing his new EP, and it's not a good sign when that happens; I stood in the pouring rain waiting for HMV to open to get a CD copy of Untrue before going to college on the day it came out, whereas I can't be arsed streaming something now.

New Order have had a few stops and starts since the early nineties, and have had the odd good track, but I sometimes pretend they quit after Republic.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Lungpuddle on May 12, 2021, 09:40:56 AM
Doesn’t change the fact that the song was total shite though.

I hated the thing too, but if it raised money for a good cause I'm not going to slag it off too much. In fact, if I'd have known it was raising money for refugees I'd have bought it and just not listened to it. I've looked up the charity (KRAN) just now but can't find a way to donate. I don't live in Kent, either.

Song was cack, yeah.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sevendaughters on May 12, 2021, 09:48:08 AM
I try not to have heroes but let's play along, alive ones only:

Labradford. Long split but post-band Mark Nelson has declined very gracefully through Pan-American. They've embraced digital so they're not old bores, but part of their magic was in the analogue/ensemble playing. No idea where Carter Brown is. Bobby and Mark formed a new band called Anjou which is reasonably good and goes to some new places, but nothing others on Bandcamp aren't doing with clever modern guitar pedals and a synth.

Thinking Fellers Union Local 282. As far as I know none of them are doing anything since the band split. A true triumph.

Ariel Pink. Talent-wise, if we consider his most new material 'House of Yesterday (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXlSkD4jMY)' and some of the cuts from the bootleg Archevil, then he appears to be blessed with a lifetime talent. Personality-wise he's never been in a bigger hole, with various personal and political problems dogging him.

Slint. The bassist runs a gym. The singer doesn't do music after dropping an immaculate record 21 years ago. The drummer/songwriter can't muster up a project of the same quality. The guitarist jobs around in increasingly lesser bands.

Nation of Ulysses. Ian still an interesting character and currently in Escape-ism and Chain and the Gang. His self-cancelling and then going back on it was weird. Was very surprised he took reunion money for The Make Up. James was a great sideman for Ted Leo. Tim had the Fucking Champs but that name seems so very early 00s to me. No idea what the rest are doing.

ABBA. Being rich and not being able to conjure up anything worth a damn since the last record they managed. A true curse.


Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 12, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Doesn’t change the fact that the song was total shite though.

The song became a collaboration when Lee starred in the video mining along to his own routine. And I’m not saying ADF are dad rock, I’m saying the cringe factor of a middle aged bloke authorising what was once an entertaining and sharply written bit of satire to be reconstituted as a relatively context-free bit of “oi oi, bet this winds you up doesn’t it, bigots?” sentiment slapped on top of a tawdry and uninspired alt-dub groove was absolutely the modern equivalent of dad rock.

Ok, you think the music is dated cak but what does him being middle aged got to do with it? Asian Dub Foundation have been going for nearly thirty years so it's not as if he's trying to be down with the kids.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 12, 2021, 10:19:07 AM

Slint. The bassist runs a gym. The singer doesn't do music after dropping an immaculate record 21 years ago. The drummer/songwriter can't muster up a project of the same quality. The guitarist jobs around in increasingly lesser bands.

.

Surely, we can't include bands that essentially split up years ago as being PAST IT?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: the science eel on May 12, 2021, 10:23:17 AM
ABBA. Being rich and not being able to conjure up anything worth a damn since the last record they managed. A true curse.

Really? Do you think they see it that way, even to a small degree?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sevendaughters on May 12, 2021, 10:24:06 AM
Surely, we can't include bands that essentially split up years ago as being PAST IT?

I'm open-minded that certain people have talent that sees them through other projects, I guess. Plus, they're alive, and the main songwriter is sadly past it.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sevendaughters on May 12, 2021, 10:25:53 AM
Really? Do you think they see it that way, even to a small degree?

Probably not. I dunno. They're not their heroes, are they? In a lot of artists there's a desire to carry on even after the cash is stacked. Barry Gibb could have stuck coke up his arse every day from the early 80s but kept pushing.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sevendaughters on May 12, 2021, 10:26:35 AM
oh, one more

Erasure. Love them. Been past it since the turn of the century.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on May 12, 2021, 10:30:42 AM
New Order have had a few stops and starts since the early nineties, and have had the odd good track, but I sometimes pretend they quit after Republic.
I wish they'd packed in after 'World in Motion'. The odd song aside ('Regret', 'Crystal' was a good enough comeback single) they've not done much since 1990 that I wish to hear again. I had a chance to see them a couple of years back but turned it down because without Hooky, it's not really New Order to me, despite him being a twat of epic proportions that I'm sure I wouldn't want to be in a band with either.

I'm a big fan of Neil Finn's songwriting though Split Enz to the second Finn Brothers album, one of the best creators of catchy guitar pop there has even been - but he's not done much that's made me sing along to since.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: An tSaoi on May 12, 2021, 10:34:48 AM
Kraftwerk. One original member left, no new album since 2003, just live albums and remasters.

Someone described them as "curators of their own back catalogue", which fits.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Angrew Lloyg Wegger on May 12, 2021, 11:35:03 AM
Mark E Smith - dead, so definitely past it
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 12, 2021, 11:37:32 AM
Nation of Ulysses. Ian still an interesting character and currently in Escape-ism and Chain and the Gang. His self-cancelling and then going back on it was weird.

Ooh, got any link or info on that please?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Lungpuddle on May 12, 2021, 11:40:15 AM
If it's true we're allowed the dead, the saddest reply would be Vivian Stanshall. Poor bugger. Although I'm getting my information from that Ginger Geezer book and the ridiculously overpriced and petty book put out by his second wife, so I may be misinformed.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sevendaughters on May 12, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Ooh, got any link or info on that please?

oh he just deleted the post, like, whoops, please don't follow up on this weird thing I wrote with zero specifics at this very timely moment! Merge cut ties with him though, so there must have been something.

This is what he wrote if you didn't see it:

Quote
    BURN BABY BURN : the trash fire burning through underground music is long overdue. It is not happening in other spheres of the music industry. It is unique to the underground rock music scene because this scene is predicated on the concepts of access, participation, respect, and honesty. It rejects the capitalist models of hierarchy and exploitation. For all of the degenerate posturing of the punk progenitors, we exist in a highly moral scene where accountability is paramount. Accountability takes many forms and faces; at one time this manifested in fairness of pricing of records and concerts, or all ages shows where anyone could enter. Record labels that were accountable. This battle is over; the fans are few and most labels and money are gone.

    Now the scene must address personal behavior. The interactions between people. As a lifelong punk i am permeated in the myths of rock. While we loathe the rock prescriptions of misogyny, power imbalance, sexual objectification, et al, we have also lionized the exploits of the greatest public degenerates (outside of politics, industry &military), the top sinners, the scum and the perverts and, at times i too have manifested aspects of their tawdry behavior.

I want to use this forum to say that i support people speaking out for the eradication of abusive predatory modes and also that i am absolutely one of the guilty parties. That, through my narcissism, egotism, and thoughtlessness, i have acted the creep. That i have made people i cared about and respected feel terrible, have been completely inappropriate to women. While this may seem like virtue signaling, its not. We are interested in creating an accountable world where this kind of dialogue isn’t necessary .

To anyone i have made feel bad or uncomfortable, i sincerely apologize and throw myself at your mercy. I always believed that i was a revolutionary and now my revolutionary act is self immolation. If rock ‘n’ roll behaves like its mortal enemy — the imperial war machine and the capitalist consumer cannibal factory, then it must be eradicated, burned, destroyed. So it can be borne again, free of the pollution that has infected it since its inception.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 12, 2021, 11:47:06 AM
Don't really have any 'heroes' as such and I'm not sure that I particularly like most of the people whose music I love, Svenonious and Euros Childs aside.

Most of the Scottish indie stuff I used to love (B&S, TFC, that lot) are generally past it now and I wish they'd stop making records. I think The Pastels continue to improve and, Sittin' Pretty aside, each album has been better than it's preecessor.

Robert Forster is ok I guess although haven't really listened to the last album that much. The highlights of his solo gigs are nearly always Go-Betweens songs. So, yes, past it.

Lawrence hasn't lost it, has he?

Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Jerzy Bondov on May 12, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
Nine Inch Nails - Just did this with HEALTH (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W2E6jNXzBE). Still great.

David Bowie - just keeps releasing old live sets and rare shit 60s recordings, what's going on with him?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 12, 2021, 11:53:23 AM
oh he just deleted the post, like, whoops, please don't follow up on this weird thing I wrote with zero specifics at this very timely moment! Merge cut ties with him though, so there must have been something.

This is what he wrote if you didn't see it:

Ah, cheers. Saw the initial post but hadn't seen anything about his subsequent u-turn. He hasn't released anything for almost a year which seems a bit ominous.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 12, 2021, 12:20:00 PM
That song with Asian Dub Foundation was quite a low point I thought. Embarrassing dad rock shite which ten years ago could have easily been served up as some sort of parody of itself.

Yeah that was what pushed me over the line from blind adoration to “ooh not sure about this”.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Crumb on May 12, 2021, 12:25:55 PM
Nine Inch Nails - Just did this with HEALTH (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W2E6jNXzBE). Still great.

David Bowie - just keeps releasing old live sets and rare shit 60s recordings, what's going on with him?

Trent is a good one, not at his absolute peak anymore, but has actually managed to develop and refine other parts of his sound so he's not trying to retread past glories too much. It's nice to see his progression from angsty lad to mellow elder statesman (even if his lyrics are still the former).
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 12, 2021, 12:28:47 PM
Guided By Voices are still plugging away at the same quality they have for the last 20 years or so. They never reach the heady heights of Alien Lanes/Bee Thousand but by no means past it
Not sure I completely agree, there are some albums I really enjoy - Universal Truths and Cycles, Let's Go Eat the Factory - and some I find a real slog - Isolation Drills, Half Smiles of the Decomposed - but even the worst records have a couple of classics on. Being a GBV fan, post-Mag Earwhig!, has definitely been an exercise in actively seeking out the best material, though. It would be completely un-GBV to do it, but if they did just stick to their best tracks and release an album of them every couple of years, they'd probably be one of the most consistently brilliant bands of all time.

Most of the Scottish indie stuff I used to love (B&S, TFC, that lot) are generally past it now and I wish they'd stop making records.
Write About Love felt like one of those slightly limp but pleasant farewell albums some bands seem to knock out knowing it's going to be their last, and that's how it is in my head. I've tried to listen to the last few things they've done and it all goes in one ear and out of the other. They seem to have lost any remaining aspects of their '90s charm as well.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 12, 2021, 12:32:17 PM
Ok, you think the music is dated cak but what does him being middle aged got to do with it? Asian Dub Foundation have been going for nearly thirty years so it's not as if he's trying to be down with the kids.

Middle aged. Midlife crisis. DAD ROCK
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 12, 2021, 01:14:36 PM
Middle aged. Midlife crisis. DAD ROCK

Hang on, but aren’t you middle aged?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Kankurette on May 12, 2021, 01:28:44 PM
I'm still not sure about Space. Attack of the Mutant 50ft Kebab was great. Give Me Your Future less so, but still a decent album, if managed horribly (and being rude to your fans when they ask when the album's coming out is not a good look, especially when you're crowdfunding it). I'm not sold on the new stuff. It's like they're trying to do Spiders again, but it's not going to be the same without Andy or Jamie, or Yorkie helping out behind the scenes.

Tori Amos had a bit of a wibble with that shitty Christmas album and Abnormally Attracted to Sin, and I'm still not sure how I feel about Night of Hunters (I wish she'd kept it instrumental, though Star Whisperer is good), but got her mojo back with Unrepentant Geraldines and Native Invader. Giant's Rolling Pin is an abortion though. It's worse than Ireland, and that's an achievement.

The Manics, though? Damn straight. I only go for the old stuff and Futurology and maybe Lifeblood and a couple of songs off This Is My Truth.

ETA: ADF have been going for THIRTY YEARS?! Fucking hell, I AM old. I remember them when they first came out and did the Satpal Ram campaign.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 12, 2021, 01:51:02 PM
Bob Dylan

Yes, he is past it.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Kankurette on May 12, 2021, 02:08:26 PM
Still not sure about Radiohead either. Last album I bought was In Rainbows, but I did enjoy them at Primavera even though I couldn't see a fucking thing. I was genuinely surprised to hear Creep too, I thought they never played it.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Huxleys Babkins on May 12, 2021, 03:03:26 PM
I wish they'd packed in after 'World in Motion'. The odd song aside ('Regret', 'Crystal' was a good enough comeback single) they've not done much since 1990 that I wish to hear again. I had a chance to see them a couple of years back but turned it down because without Hooky, it's not really New Order to me, despite him being a twat of epic proportions that I'm sure I wouldn't want to be in a band with either.

If anything the lack of Hooky has reinvigorated the band for me, Clive. Peter Hook is a one-trick pony and, whilst that trick is truly iconic and responsible for some of the greatest songs ever recorded, it had long outstayed its welcome. For a band like New Order who were always pushing boundaries, always playing with new technology, refusing to be pigeonholed by genre, to have a member who was so rigidly set on playing one instrument in one particular style on every single track, I'm amazed they managed to drag on for as long as they did.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: boki on May 12, 2021, 03:22:21 PM
Middle aged. Midlife crisis. DAD ROCK
Can reggae be Dad Rock?  Mother's Lover's Rock, maybe.

While I'm here I ought to mention that Ginger Wildheart's done some of his very best work in the past ten years, not bad for someone I first saw on telly in 1988.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on May 12, 2021, 03:38:13 PM
If anything the lack of Hooky has reinvigorated the band for me, Clive. Peter Hook is a one-trick pony and, whilst that trick is truly iconic and responsible for some of the greatest songs ever recorded, it had long outstayed its welcome. For a band like New Order who were always pushing boundaries, always playing with new technology, refusing to be pigeonholed by genre, to have a member who was so rigidly set on playing one instrument in one particular style on every single track, I'm amazed they managed to drag on for as long as they did.
It's a reasonable point - and I could maybe get past the lack of Peter Hook if I thought the new songs were much cop, but I heard the last album and pretty much nothing stuck. That said, I thought 'Waiting for the Sirens' Call' and large sections of 'Get Ready' were absolute duff too, so my only interest in seeing the band live at this point would have been for nostalgic reasons, which would be diminished by it not being the original line up.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: jamiefairlie on May 12, 2021, 03:53:54 PM
Agree 100%. Technique was the last thing they did that had any warmth or heart. Hate how they gradually dropped their values one by one until they just ended up as just another band. Compare to Wire for how it could have been.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: bigfatheart on May 12, 2021, 04:11:51 PM
John Reis is nowhere near as prolific as he used to be, but what he puts out is still ace. Probably slowing down more than past it. Still great live too.

Roy Wood, on the other hand, has been past it longer than I've been alive.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 12, 2021, 04:15:05 PM
Hang on, but aren’t you middle aged?

Middle age is widely believed to begin at 40-45 and I’m 34, so no! I’ve got nowt against ageing though; my fiancée and several of my friends are around 40+, and I’m very much aware of how daft an argument on the semantics of age is. All I’m saying is that ADF song is very much on the “naff” end of what I’d consider to be fodder for what nowadays constitutes for “dad rock” i.e. inoffensive and unchallenging music for people who grew up in the UK listening to punk and reggae. After all, it is 2021 and the parameters of what constitutes a middle aged dad have changed. I can vouch for this with certainty because I am specifically talking about my own dad.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: shagatha crustie on May 12, 2021, 04:27:44 PM
Bob Dylan

Yes, he is past it.

Aw, I dunno. 'Murder Most Foul' landing when it did last year felt like an event.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 12, 2021, 05:00:10 PM
Aw, I dunno. 'Murder Most Foul' landing when it did last year felt like an event.

Even as an ardent Dylan-defender I’d accede that his best stuff is firmly in the rear-view.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 12, 2021, 05:26:00 PM
Middle age is widely believed to begin at 40-45 and I’m 34, so no! I’ve got nowt against ageing though; my fiancée and several of my friends are around 40+, and I’m very much aware of how daft an argument on the semantics of age is. All I’m saying is that ADF song is very much on the “naff” end of what I’d consider to be fodder for what nowadays constitutes for “dad rock” i.e. inoffensive and unchallenging music for people who grew up in the UK listening to punk and reggae. After all, it is 2021 and the parameters of what constitutes a middle aged dad have changed. I can vouch for this with certainty because I am specifically talking about my own dad.

Fair enough. Musically, it probably wasn't aimed at you. The thing is, they wanted to reach people, sell downloads to raise money and make a strong statement. If it had been too sonically challenging it would have disappeared without trace.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 12, 2021, 05:48:42 PM
That is a fair point which I graciously accept!
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Natnar on May 12, 2021, 07:03:46 PM
Kate Bush

I don't think she's past it yet, although only releasing an album a decade doesn't help things. I know there are people who think everything after The Red Shoes has been shit.

Bjork

Lost me at Biophilia an album so dull that she had to make an App for each song to make it seem more interesting.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: shagatha crustie on May 12, 2021, 07:07:11 PM
Kate Bush

I don't think she's past it yet, although only releasing an album a decade doesn't help things. I know there are people who think everything after The Red Shoes has been shit.

Some bits of 50 Words For Snow set my teeth on edge a bit.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 12, 2021, 07:10:57 PM
Kate Bush

I don't think she's past it yet, although only releasing an album a decade doesn't help things. I know there are people who think everything after The Red Shoes has been shit.

Bjork

Lost me at Biophilia an album so dull that she had to make an App for each song to make it seem more interesting.

I dug out "Aerial" the other night as I can't remember having ever given it my full attention, and I thought it was pretty boring on the whole. I have a shite attention span and it didn't really make me want to give it more time to grow on me.

Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Kankurette on May 12, 2021, 07:19:53 PM
I do prefer her older stuff but Aerial is good to have on when I’m working. It’s quite calming in parts.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Natnar on May 12, 2021, 07:21:01 PM
I think Aerial & 50 Words For Snow aren't as instantly attention grabbing as her earlier albums. The Dreaming, Hounds Of Love and about half of The Sensual World would be my Kate golden era, but i still think she's probably got the potential to come up with something interesting in the future.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: chveik on May 12, 2021, 07:48:33 PM
of Montreal they haven't made a proper garbage tier album (yet) but i think we could safely say now that they're past it.

John Zorn the last decade has shown his compositional bag of tricks is not infinite. maybe if he was more focused and didn't released a dozen projects a year...

The Residents are deffo past it since 'Animal Lover' although their last one had a pretty interesting concept.

them rap singers don't tend to handle middle-age really well. it's embarrassing to hear Ghostface Killah still doing his mafioso schtick for instance (and he's far from being the most has-been of the Wu-Tang gang). nuff said about KRS-One or the memphis rap scene... i guess they really struggle to reinvente their sound. it's far quicker to name successfull comeback albums, like the Tribe Called Quest one.

bands/musicians that are still going strong: Magma, The Legendary Pink Dots, Sparks, Keiji Haino
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Jim_MacLaine on May 12, 2021, 08:01:44 PM
We'll I've waited about 12 years for a kings of convenience album and their new single is shit. Not heard the album yet mind.

I was waiting for Feist to pop up on the single, it sounded that similar to Know How.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

This time.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 12, 2021, 08:03:33 PM
John Zorn the last decade has shown his compositional bag of tricks is not infinite. maybe if he was more focused and didn't released a dozen projects a year...

Was thinking of starting a John Zorn thread recently actually, good to know there’s at least one person who’ll chip into it if I do!
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sevendaughters on May 12, 2021, 08:13:35 PM

Bjork

Lost me at Biophilia an album so dull that she had to make an App for each song to make it seem more interesting.

oh wow I think Vulnicura is probably her best record since Vespertine
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 12, 2021, 08:25:06 PM

The Residents are deffo past it since 'Animal Lover' although their last one had a pretty interesting concept.


I've loved 'em for decades but I've struggled with most of their 21st-century output bar Demons Dance Alone. To be honest, I found a lot of their nineties stuff pretty hard going as well. Too prolific and not enough quality control perhaps?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Goldentony on May 12, 2021, 08:40:49 PM
mate who loves em has the cut off point at post Mole Show when two left and they went wild on shite MIDI sounds
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Catalogue of ills on May 12, 2021, 09:46:04 PM


Underworld had a couple of shaky albums, the dreadful Barking and the pleasant but largely Underworld-by-numbers Barbara Barbara, so I was delighted when they managed to release a 6CD boxset of new material and most of it was excellent. Not bad for a couple of guys 40+ years into their careers.

Being Underworld must be like hitting a double century on your test debut, cap at a rakish angle and smoking a cocktail cigarette; it feels unreasonable to expect anything after that opener to be anything other than a slight disappointment. I seem to be alone in liking Barking, or at least the first five tracks, and I really like Always Loved a Film. Barbara Barbara on the other hand was almost physically disappointing, I remember putting it on and really wanting to like it but it was plain as day that it was dull and tired and a proper water-treader, with the exception of Sun Ra. I saw them live not long after that, and the gulf in quality between that stuff and the crowd pleasers was tangible and a bit upsetting. Some of the Drift stuff is very good, as was that track they did with Iggy Pop, but they probably should call it a day soon.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Famous Mortimer on May 12, 2021, 10:18:37 PM
The Residents are a very good call. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but their DVD has modern re-recordings of all the tracks on it, and almost without exception they sound terrible and a vast gulf worse than the originals. Pretty much everything from the 90s onwards has suffered from what Goldentony mentioned.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 12, 2021, 11:08:23 PM
The Residents are a very good call. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but their DVD has modern re-recordings of all the tracks on it, and almost without exception they sound terrible and a vast gulf worse than the originals.

Haven’t they just done this exact same thing with “Duck Stab” as well?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-residents-duck-stab-alive-night-flight-40th-anniversary-1167624/
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: homesickalien on May 12, 2021, 11:13:52 PM
Eels, not bad on record though a bit forgettable and flat for me.

However saw them in live in 2019 and was very impressed. 

Songs sound great and E is a good frontman.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Lungpuddle on May 12, 2021, 11:18:27 PM
Eels, not bad on record though a bit forgettable and flat for me.

However saw them in live in 2019 and was very impressed. 

Songs sound great and E is a good frontman.

If you make a playlist and put Fresh Feeling near the beginning, add eleven of twelve tracks between then finish up with Selective Memory, that's an experience. Those strings work perfectly as a musical callback to close the album with. Unfortunately the two songs are on different albums and Fresh Feeling comes after.

I liked the Deconstruction but haven't really let the new one sink in yet. So far he's not past it for me.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 12, 2021, 11:19:06 PM
Eels, not bad on record though a bit forgettable and flat for me.

However saw them in live in 2019 and was very impressed. 

Songs sound great and E is a good frontman.

Are they still making records? They’re one of those bands I never think to listen to, but whenever I do I remember how good all their stuff is.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on May 12, 2021, 11:20:05 PM
Gord Downie and Gil Scott-Heron, though they’re both thoroughly dead so I’ll give them a pass.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Goldentony on May 12, 2021, 11:57:50 PM
Haven’t they just done this exact same thing with “Duck Stab” as well?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-residents-duck-stab-alive-night-flight-40th-anniversary-1167624/

yeah the Preserved editions are mostly great but a tendency to have way too many live tracks from the bollocks era, but there's a lot of amazing essential stuff on them too so I dont know what you're gonna do, what are you gonna do I guess
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: fit bird on May 13, 2021, 12:21:37 AM
Jun Togawa pretty much disappeared off the face of the earth in 2005, legacy intact.
Until mounting a comeback, voice completely shot, in 2016. A string of awful albums of reinterpretations of her old songs and a piano covers album before becoming a Youtube agony aunt. Definitely past it.
Bryan Ferry has been shit since 1978 but especially so lately, last few albums are full of reheated songs that appeared in almost identical forms on bootlegs from over 20 years ago. Cunt's voice is gone too. Doubt anybody enjoys him whispering over his naff 90s demos. Definitely past it.

Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: TheMonk on May 13, 2021, 03:24:32 AM
Bryan Ferry has been shit since 1978 but especially so lately, last few albums are full of reheated songs that appeared in almost identical forms on bootlegs from over 20 years ago. Cunt's voice is gone too. Doubt anybody enjoys him whispering over his naff 90s demos. Definitely past it.
Yeah his voice is odd now. Most singers just lose the top of their range but I’ve seen a few videos of Ferry performing recently and he sounds like a slightly off key Bryan Ferry impersonator. There’s a muppet like quality to his voice. Most disconcerting.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 13, 2021, 08:45:18 AM
The Residents are a very good call. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but their DVD has modern re-recordings of all the tracks on it, and almost without exception they sound terrible and a vast gulf worse than the originals. Pretty much everything from the 90s onwards has suffered from what Goldentony mentioned.

It was diminishing returns with occasional flashes of brilliance after the Mole Show Trilogy for that very bank of overworked synthesisers reason. And Hardy Fox babbling his drawl over every record since God In Three Persons (1988). You can get too much of a good thing. Bring back Penn Jillette!

Although, the best Residents product I've bought in years is B.S. on Record Store Day 2018. They say it's unreleased early 1970s material but knowing what tricksters they are and the album title, I'm not sure. It's a very convincing reproduction of their early sound, if it is. Anyway, it's the fucking Residents, they owe me nothing but I owe them a lot.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: An tSaoi on May 13, 2021, 10:13:54 AM
Jean-Michel Jarre. He'll toss off an album and call it Oygene 4 or Equinoxe Reloaded or whatever, even if it doesn't sound anything like the originals. Piggybacking on his own coat tails.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Natnar on May 13, 2021, 10:45:12 AM
Annie Lennox

Hasn't really done anything decent since Diva in 1992.  Seems to knock out covers albums just to fulfill her record contract.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 13, 2021, 10:53:05 AM
Haven't Yes released about 4 albums with none of the original line up?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Pink Gregory on May 13, 2021, 10:53:44 AM
Nick Cave - Definitely not past it, having made some of his best records to date in the last ten years after he got the embarassing hand-clappy "woo yeah rock and roll!" Grinderman-isms out of his system and stepped boldly into the late 20th century and started to embrace the use of the kind of electronic textures. Carnage is very much a triumph, and Ghosteen is my joint favourite Cave record with Your Funeral, My Trial; just above Junkyard in my ranking.

See, I'm sort of the opposite.  When I got into Nick Cave it was through Abbatoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus, Let Love in and Murder Ballads.  I excitedly went out and bought Push the Sky Away when it came out, it's still one of my favourites; same with Skeleton Tree but I don't listen to it much because it *is* a difficult listen.  Not remotely arsed about listening to Ghosteen or the Cave/Ellis records.

I don't know, it's clearly very, very good but it just lacks a certain...vitality?  Which increasingly I find lacking from old faves Murder Ballads and Let Love In (which I find in Abbatoir Blues in particular, oddly, and Grinderman).  There's something now about Cave that I just find a bit too maudlin and 'respectable' so I'm less enthused by it, and I'm more drawn to From Her to Eternity, Your Funeral etc

Also, him writing some columns for the fucking Spectator and other subsequent comments just made me feel a bit less admiration for the man.  But that's my problem.  'Outlaw spirit?' mate it's a hateful slur on the main radio station in the middle of the day, sorry that's hurtful to you?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Pink Gregory on May 13, 2021, 10:58:17 AM
I think I'm always going to love Shellac, putting out 5 records in about 30 years helps though.  They're just such a great unit.

Same with Clutch, making largely the same music since the mid-2000s?  Though Robot Hive/Exodus sounds totally different to e.g.Psychic Warfare.  Pure Rock Fury is my least favourite record with 2 or 3 of my favourite tunes on it.  An institution.

Not particularly enthused by anything the Melvins are putting out since the last record with Big Business, a far more interesting band.  A Walk With Love and Death just sort of washed over me.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: SpiderChrist on May 13, 2021, 10:59:25 AM
Yes. Every last one of them. Fucked and useless. In the bin. No more heroes.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: boki on May 13, 2021, 11:14:41 AM
The Residents are a very good call. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but their DVD has modern re-recordings of all the tracks on it, and almost without exception they sound terrible and a vast gulf worse than the originals.
I never really bothered listening to the re-recordings purely because they mixed them in 5:1 and I haven't had a surround setup.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Oz Oz Alice on May 13, 2021, 11:15:19 AM
Yes. Every last one of them. Fucked and useless. In the bin. No more heroes.

Speaking of which The Stranglers had a great run up to and including Dreamtime but everything since then has been dogshit.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 13, 2021, 11:23:26 AM
Isn't Norfolk Coast supposed to be very good?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 13, 2021, 11:38:03 AM
Sometimes you have to consider whether it is oneself who has PAST IT?  For me, it's Scott Walker, maybe even Tom Waits to a lesser degree. I prefer their old material but some people say that I'm wrongitty wrong and should embrace the later more challenging shit. Does that mean I am no longer relevant?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Chicory on May 13, 2021, 11:38:43 AM
Remember that video of Paul Young sounding like a severely winded swamp monster a few years back?  Well, it seems he's still a known quantity on the touring circuit.  I wonder if he's managed to get his 1980s vintage velvety croon back or if he's just decided to go full-on "That's just how I 'sing' now, motherfuckers! Here's another Gomez cover"
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 13, 2021, 11:40:33 AM
Remember that video of Paul Young sounding like a severely winded swamp monster a few years back?  Well, it seems he's still a known quantity on the touring circuit.  I wonder if he's managed to get his 1980s vintage velvety croon back or if he's just decided to go full-on "That's just how I 'sing' now, motherfuckers! Here's another Gomez cover"

He should go on tour with Finlay Quaye. There might be tear gas involved.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 13, 2021, 11:42:53 AM
I think I'm always going to love Shellac, putting out 5 records in about 30 years helps though.  They're just such a great unit.


I'm putting Shellac in with Mogwai, the new albums are fine, but, a bit AC/DC, ie it's soooo Been There Done that.


Even Status Quo got bored of the formula and made Living on an Island.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Greg Torso on May 13, 2021, 11:45:34 AM
Sometimes you have to consider whether it is oneself who has PAST IT?  For me, it's Scott Walker, maybe even Tom Waits to a lesser degree. I prefer their old material but some people say that I'm wrongitty wrong and should embrace the later more challenging shit. Does that mean I am no longer relevant?

I would say Scott Walker went out on an extremely high peak, or near enough. He had his shit years in the 1970s and came back, big time. The Drift is an amazing record for anyone to have made, never mind a former 60s pop star in his sixties.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Kankurette on May 13, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Speaking of which The Stranglers had a great run up to and including Dreamtime but everything since then has been dogshit.
Dave Greenfield is definitely done.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 13, 2021, 12:56:34 PM
Jean-Michel Jarre. He'll toss off an album and call it Oygene 4 or Equinoxe Reloaded or whatever, even if it doesn't sound anything like the originals. Piggybacking on his own coat tails.
I dunno, his new one, Amazonia, doesn’t sound anything like anything else he’s released. Was pleasantly surprised how contemporary the beats sounded and how it avoided the usual new age cliches associated with that kind of environmental music, especially for someone like Jarre.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: TheMonk on May 13, 2021, 01:23:16 PM
Remember that video of Paul Young sounding like a severely winded swamp monster a few years back?  Well, it seems he's still a known quantity on the touring circuit.  I wonder if he's managed to get his 1980s vintage velvety croon back or if he's just decided to go full-on "That's just how I 'sing' now, motherfuckers! Here's another Gomez cover"
I saw him a few years back on an 80s package show. He walked out and got huge applause then started gargling through Wherever I Lay My Hat. It was so bad it was surreal. Still gives me the willys thinking about it. Genuinely unsettling.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: greenman on May 13, 2021, 01:37:52 PM
Not exactly active but I'd say Michael Head still in pretty good form, The Red Elastic Band maybe not quite up to Shacks level but definitely not phoning it in.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 13, 2021, 01:43:20 PM
I'm putting Shellac in with Mogwai, the new albums are fine, but, a bit AC/DC, ie it's soooo Been There Done that.

When you say "new" do you mean the last two, which were 2007 and 2014 respectively?

I think the Mogwai comparison is a bit unfair, since Mogwai's material is a lot more regular - an album/soundtrack pretty much every year or so - and far more insubstantial and gradually withering. Shellac on the other hand are a well-oiled machine, going through every tight motion with great precision. It's a slow-moving machine but when it goes through another cycle it's like the satisfaction of hearing the chime on your favourite clock. Mmmnnngghhhyeahhh.

I mean it probably doesn't help that I don't think much of Mogwai and I bloody love Shellac, but I do really think Shellac is wholly consummate to the point of pretty much being what I'd consider "perfect" music. I certainly wouldn't mind if they never released any more music or even decided not to tour any more but I'm extremely grateful whenever they do. Deffo not past it.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 13, 2021, 01:46:54 PM
Yes. They were Shellac by numbers.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Mollusk on May 13, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Yes. They were Shellac by numbers.

You could probably apply that phrase to most of their albums to be honest, and they're one of the extremely few bands who excel within those parameters.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: An tSaoi on May 13, 2021, 01:50:27 PM
I dunno, his new one, Amazonia, doesn’t sound anything like anything else he’s released.

Ah, I haven't heard that one.

THAT'S ME TOLD
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 13, 2021, 03:12:04 PM
I would say Scott Walker went out on an extremely high peak, or near enough. He had his shit years in the 1970s and came back, big time. The Drift is an amazing record for anyone to have made, never mind a former 60s pop star in his sixties.

I rest my case, m'lud.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: thecuriousorange on May 13, 2021, 03:23:05 PM
Van Morrison. The Eagles. Fleetwood Mac.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Famous Mortimer on May 13, 2021, 03:24:00 PM
Haven't Yes released about 4 albums with none of the original line up?
It depends how crucial you think the contributions of Steve Howe and Alan White are, who aren't original original, but have been with the band through pretty much everything from the early 70s to now.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Greg Torso on May 13, 2021, 03:27:36 PM
I rest my case, m'lud.

Er, I wasn't implying your opinion is 'wrong' or that you're past it. I like his 60s stuff, too!
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: buzby on May 13, 2021, 03:53:29 PM
Remember that video of Paul Young sounding like a severely winded swamp monster a few years back?  Well, it seems he's still a known quantity on the touring circuit.  I wonder if he's managed to get his 1980s vintage velvety croon back or if he's just decided to go full-on "That's just how I 'sing' now, motherfuckers! Here's another Gomez cover"
October 2019 German TV' 'performance' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKKfztGLqUI) says 'no, M'Lud' (the two backing singers can't hold a candle to Kim & Maz either). For comparison, here's the same song being perfomed on The Tube in 1983 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq4aCHI5Hgg) (though the sound man fucks up Kim & Maz's mic levels)
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Hat FM on May 13, 2021, 04:20:53 PM
Gruff Rhys is 50 now but still making great indie pop music which earns many repeat plays for me. Not sure if he's ever tempted to do another sfa album but i imagine this suits him more as the other members would want an equal share of the creative output and to be blunt they aren't quite as gifted as Gruff. I hope he'll be making albums until he is grey and old.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Chicory on May 13, 2021, 04:30:44 PM
Yes, not to do the other lads a disservice but whenever I hear new stuff by Rhys I just imagine that's roughly what a new SFA record would sound like.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Hat FM on May 13, 2021, 04:33:42 PM
Yes, not to do the other lads a disservice but whenever I hear new stuff by Rhys I just imagine that's roughly what a new SFA record would sound like.

yeah though maybe with a bit more beaty stuff provided by Cian and just a bigger sound generally i think.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: DrGreggles on May 13, 2021, 04:37:34 PM
That Das Koolies single was great though.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Chicory on May 13, 2021, 04:44:38 PM
October 2019 German TV' 'performance' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKKfztGLqUI) says 'no, M'Lud' (the two backing singers can't hold a candle to Kim & Maz either). For comparison, here's the same song being perfomed on The Tube in 1983 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq4aCHI5Hgg) (though the sound man fucks up Kim & Maz's mic levels)

Ach, that's painful to watch. Well done Paul for just about managing to grunt out all your own lines, instead of giving up despondently half way through to let your backing singers do 'the tricky bits'.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: jamiefairlie on May 13, 2021, 04:48:27 PM
Ach, that's painful to watch. Well done Paul for just about managing to grunt out all your own lines, instead of giving up despondently half way through to let your backing singers do 'the tricky bits'.

More than a hint of ‘baby babyyyyy’ about that.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Egyptian Feast on May 13, 2021, 04:48:56 PM
Gruff has a new one out in the next few days, doesn't he? I ordered a 'Dinked' edition of it, whatever the fuck that is. He's never disappointed, though admittedly I haven't heard the Tony Da Gatorra album. I would prefer a new Neon Neon album over a new SFA, tbh.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: jamiefairlie on May 13, 2021, 04:50:47 PM
I’ll need to throw Dead Can Dance under the bus here too. Nothing interesting since the 90s, as they noodled away on their bongoes and bird noises instead of pretending to be medieval monks.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Nowhere Man on May 13, 2021, 05:25:45 PM
Half Man Half Biscuit are still pretty good
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: jamiefairlie on May 13, 2021, 05:31:58 PM
They are 😃
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Nice Relaxing Poo on May 13, 2021, 06:08:38 PM
Mogwai- I think their long slow decline began around about The Hawk is Howling but with little periods of decent stuff following intermingled with averageness.

I'll second the poster who mentioned Clutch for consistency, I still look forward to each release and still enjoy the fuck out of Neil Fallon's lyrics and JP Gaster's groove laden drumming.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Tombola on May 13, 2021, 06:54:15 PM
Please, someone, get Weezer to stop.

Tough to imagine a band with further diminishing returns after Blue and Pinkerton, two of the best albums any band has ever released. Patchy from there, but moments of joy, particularly The White Album which was genuinely delightful.

After that, fucking hell. They just won't fucking stop. The Black Album isn't just the worst album Weezer have made, it's the worst album anyone has ever made. I've refused to listen to anything else they've made after that abomination, despite them probably being my favourite band on paper.

I'll see them when they do the inevitable Blue/Pinkerton tour but fuck everything else. Awful.

They just released 'Van Weezer', and it's more of the same Black Album shite....

Quote from: Wikipedia
In an interview that month with Entertainment Weekly, Cuomo mentioned that an album tentatively titled Van Weezer was in the works, and that it would take the band "back to big guitars". He remarked that when the band would perform "Beverly Hills" live in concert, he would perform a guitar solo that was not present on the recorded version of the song. "We noticed that, recently, the crowd just goes crazy when I do that. So it feels like maybe the audience is ready for some shredding again."

...But with slightly more guitar.

I really don't know who it's supposed to appeal to.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: peanutbutter on May 13, 2021, 07:16:56 PM
Please, someone, get Weezer to stop.

Tough to imagine a band with further diminishing returns after Blue and Pinkerton, two of the best albums any band has ever released. Patchy from there, but moments of joy, particularly The White Album which was genuinely delightful.

After that, fucking hell. They just won't fucking stop. The Black Album isn't just the worst album Weezer have made, it's the worst album anyone has ever made. I've refused to listen to anything else they've made after that abomination, despite them probably being my favourite band on paper.

I'll see them when they do the inevitable Blue/Pinkerton tour but fuck everything else. Awful.
I think Weezer have kinda rehabilitated themselves to be honest. EWBA was pretty good, the White Album was shockingly good and from what I've heard OK Human is pretty solid. Rivers losing his mind and becoming overly bruised by Pinkerton's reception led to a pretty rough 10-15 years of trying to reachieve past glories, but I think it also kinda set Pinkerton a pedestal it doesn't really warrant. the White Album really wasn't that far off Pinkerton for me.

Rivers Cuomo being a dude who seems to knock out an album or two a year, mostly below average but with some odd bursts of greatness seems like all I could have ever realistically expected from him. Erratic as fuck sure but has never truly lost it (beyond the youthful energy and less-creepy innocence of the debut)





Anyways Burial would be my main pick for this, and possibly maybe Kanye although he's proven me wrong before.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Nice Relaxing Poo on May 13, 2021, 07:25:04 PM
Just looked up public ratings from this site for Weezer:

https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/weezer

Fuck me that is a long string of mostly shit, decades of it almost.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Goldentony on May 13, 2021, 07:49:39 PM
Weezer's been saved by them being around for ages and anyone who originally gave them the time of day just fucking them off to get on with it, its the Green Day paradox
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: pupshaw on May 13, 2021, 09:00:04 PM
Roy Wood, on the other hand, has been past it longer than I've been alive.

Roy Wood is such a funny case. He seemed to completely lose interest in the business of writing and recording music in the late 80's, although you could
possibly trace that back to the late 70's. Less successful obviously, than his run from 67-75, but he was quite adaptable and ambitious musically in those
years, then nothing. I wish he'd been more active. Everything he has done has some appeal to me.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: DrGreggles on May 13, 2021, 09:30:40 PM
Roy Wood was ripped off in The Move, learnt his lesson, now makes a fortune from the re-recorded Christmas song he wrote that he owns ALL the rights to (as he only licensed the new version for availability about 40 years ago).

Does he even write songs any more? Or does he just sit around all day in his solid gold house?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Goldentony on May 13, 2021, 09:50:05 PM
did he not make anything off The Move? I haven't seen if he's the writer but writing Do Ya, Brontosaurus and Turkish Tram Conductor Blues should get you a medal
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 13, 2021, 10:11:54 PM
October 2019 German TV' 'performance' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKKfztGLqUI) says 'no, M'Lud' (the two backing singers can't hold a candle to Kim & Maz either). For comparison, here's the same song being perfomed on The Tube in 1983 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq4aCHI5Hgg) (though the sound man fucks up Kim & Maz's mic levels)

God, I remember Young being on The Tube what seemed every other week.




You're going to tell me now that he only ever made one appearance on The Tube, ain'tcha?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 13, 2021, 10:16:50 PM
Er, I wasn't implying your opinion is 'wrong' or that you're past it. I like his 60s stuff, too!

I wasn't implying you were implying, just saying that often Scott Walker fans are divided by which Scott style is superior. I admired him so much for his 'Tilting' and 'Drifting' just didn't want to listen to it.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: buzby on May 13, 2021, 11:08:37 PM
God, I remember Young being on The Tube what seemed every other week.

You're going to tell me now that he only ever made one appearance on The Tube, ain'tcha?
Three times, apparently - I suspect having the backing singers from Mr. Boogie Woogie Stylings' band probably helped. They were all in 1983 (tail end of the first series and start of the second) which makes sense, as he dumped Kim & Maz for the follow up to No Parlez, so Holland would have probably been a bit peeved with him.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Jockice on May 14, 2021, 06:23:22 AM
God, I remember Young being on The Tube what seemed every other week.

And when he wasn't it was Tina Turner. I'll still never forgive Heaven 17 for inflicting the croaky old bat on us again.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: TheMonk on May 14, 2021, 06:37:09 AM
October 2019 German TV' 'performance' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKKfztGLqUI) says 'no, M'Lud' (the two backing singers can't hold a candle to Kim & Maz either). For comparison, here's the same song being perfomed on The Tube in 1983 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq4aCHI5Hgg) (though the sound man fucks up Kim & Maz's mic levels)
That audience is very generous. Not one bottle.
More like F*ck Off and stay home for good this time, Paul.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: pigamus on May 14, 2021, 08:07:52 AM
I remember years ago reading a story about people demanding their money back after seeing him. He’s clearly one of those people immune from embarrassment. Or maybe he just needs the money.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: phantom_power on May 14, 2021, 08:47:22 AM
I remember years ago reading a story about people demanding their money back after seeing him. He’s clearly one of those people immune from embarrassment. Or maybe he just needs the money.

It is really sad seeing something they used to be good at, and probably the only thing they can really do now, and failing so badly. Just locked in this cycle of going on stage to be embarrassed because there is nothing else they know
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: the science eel on May 14, 2021, 09:10:56 AM
At least he's staying in his range and not reaching for those high notes. He knows his limitations!

Nice chap too, apparently.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Bently Sheds on May 14, 2021, 09:23:47 AM
did he not make anything off The Move? I haven't seen if he's the writer but writing Do Ya, Brontosaurus and Turkish Tram Conductor Blues should get you a medal
Roy Wood wrote Brontosaurus, Bev Bevan wrote Turkish Tram Conductor Blues and Jeff Lynne wrote Do Ya (which he subsequently re-recorded for a post-Wood ELO album). Wood should get a medal for Curly, Omnibus and Fire Brigade at least.

Speaking of Mogwai, I suspect you could rustle up one half decent album from selected tracks taken from their releases after The Hawk Is Howling. Most of the new Mogwai stuff I hear just sounds like AI is generating Mogwai music.

Sigur Ros were great up to Takk, then just went to shit. Wasn't that after the keyboard player left?

The Church were great up to Gold Afternoon Fix, but then went extremely dull. I've never dared to listen to anything after that album for fear it will taint the love I have for their jangly, psychedelic early stuff.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 14, 2021, 09:29:58 AM
I remember two girls at my college once got chatting with Paul Young in a pub in Earl's Court in '86. He wanted to play them the new stuff he'd been working on and asked if they'd like to join him for a spin in his open-top sportscar. They agreed and spent the afternoon cruising around West London listening to demos on his car stereo. They even went into the West End to pick out some shirts for him because his wife wasn't in the country, later he bought them lunch. Not once did he make a pass or made them feel uncomfortable but after that, they never saw him again. I always thought that was quite cool. 'Nice chap', as The Science Eel said.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on May 14, 2021, 09:30:36 AM
The Church were great up to Gold Afternoon Fix, but then went extremely dull. I've never dared to listen to anything after that album for fear it will taint the love I have for their jangly, psychedelic early stuff.
I put that down to pressure from the label to come up with another 'Under the Milky Way', as well as the usual rock and roll trappings (drugs). 'Ripple' from the Priest=Aura album was great, but I've not been inclined to investigate further - seems they're still going now, albeit with Kilbey as the only original member.

Shame, as you say. I listened to Starfish a few days ago, and it still holds up. None of the production horrors you'd expect from a late 80s "commercial breakthrough" album.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: phantom_power on May 14, 2021, 09:47:55 AM
I remember two girls at my college once got chatting with Paul Young in a pub in Earl's Court in '86. He wanted to play them the new stuff he'd been working on and asked if they'd like to join him for a spin in his open-top sportscar. They agreed and spent the afternoon cruising around West London listening to demos on his car stereo. They even went into the West End to pick out some shirts for him because his wife wasn't in the country, later he bought them lunch. Not once did he make a pass or made them feel uncomfortable but after that, they never saw him again. I always thought that was quite cool. 'Nice chap', as The Science Eel said.

I believe that is what they call a "no no no no, yes" story
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: PeterCornelius on May 14, 2021, 10:11:22 AM
Paul McCartney His voice has been utterly shot for years. This is what happens when you insist on doing Beatles songs in the same key that you did them in when you were 25. Smoking weed at Olympic level doesn’t help. But Macca is a man in denial and he’ll go on until he carks it.

Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: DrGreggles on May 14, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
His voice is still OK on record, but he's struggled live for a while now.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Nice Relaxing Poo on May 14, 2021, 12:25:31 PM
Been having a look at Roy Wood's wikipedia page. Now there is a man who probably knows what it's like to sit in your pants watching TV day after day, 40 years of doing what amounts to almost fuck all. He's a member of Brexit Party (or whatever they're called now) which is nice.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: non capisco on May 14, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Been having a look at Roy Wood's wikipedia page. Now there is a man who probably knows what it's like to sit in your pants watching TV day after day, 40 years of doing what amounts to almost fuck all. He's a member of Brexit Party (or whatever they're called now) which is nice.

I just looked up what Jonah Lewie makes per year for 'Stop the Cavalry', 120 grand still. A decent income without the need to do a further day's work ever again for going "dubba dubba dum dum" and mentioning Christmas once 40 odd years ago. Hasn't released a note of new music since 1983. What a lucky bastard.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 14, 2021, 01:03:21 PM
Not to cast aspersions on you, non capisco, but I do sometimes wonder about these 'Noddy Holder gets a sack of Fabergé eggs left on his doorstep every time 'Merry Christmas Everybody' gets played in Tesco' type of claims. I bet Jonah Lewie would argue he gets nowhere near that figure.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Famous Mortimer on May 14, 2021, 01:52:54 PM
Been having a look at Roy Wood's wikipedia page. Now there is a man who probably knows what it's like to sit in your pants watching TV day after day, 40 years of doing what amounts to almost fuck all. He's a member of Brexit Party (or whatever they're called now) which is nice.
Wasn't he the cunt who went on Never Mind The Buzzcocks and told a story of how he bought the pub in his village and shut it down because he didn't like the noise they were making? And expected people to think it was a charming story and not an awful prick with too much money and too little empathy?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: thecuriousorange on May 14, 2021, 02:03:34 PM
Meatloaf's voice is gone.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: TheMonk on May 14, 2021, 02:34:27 PM
I remember two girls at my college once got chatting with Paul Young in a pub in Earl's Court in '86. He wanted to play them the new stuff he'd been working on and asked if they'd like to join him for a spin in his open-top sportscar. They agreed and spent the afternoon cruising around West London listening to demos on his car stereo. They even went into the West End to pick out some shirts for him because his wife wasn't in the country, later he bought them lunch. Not once did he make a pass or made them feel uncomfortable but after that, they never saw him again. I always thought that was quite cool. 'Nice chap', as The Science Eel said.
You’d think they’d have been proud of giving Paul Young a handjob in a sportscar.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Kankurette on May 14, 2021, 03:26:02 PM
Wasn't he the cunt who went on Never Mind The Buzzcocks and told a story of how he bought the pub in his village and shut it down because he didn't like the noise they were making? And expected people to think it was a charming story and not an awful prick with too much money and too little empathy?
What a charmer. BXP are Reform UK now btw, one of their policies is 'lockdown bad'.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: pupshaw on May 14, 2021, 04:51:29 PM
Not to cast aspersions on you, non capisco, but I do sometimes wonder about these 'Noddy Holder gets a sack of Fabergé eggs left on his doorstep every time 'Merry Christmas Everybody' gets played in Tesco' type of claims. I bet Jonah Lewie would argue he gets nowhere near that figure.

Greg Lake actually wrote to a newspaper to comment about the plot of some film or TV show where some character had a Christmas hit and never had to work again.
he said that was more than a slight exaggeration.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: pupshaw on May 14, 2021, 04:56:16 PM
Wasn't he the cunt who went on Never Mind The Buzzcocks and told a story of how he bought the pub in his village and shut it down because he didn't like the noise they were making? And expected people to think it was a charming story and not an awful prick with too much money and too little empathy?

My heart sunk when I read that Wikipedia entry. But he's a musician, not a philosopher, and there's nothing that will ever spoil the music for me.
Also, Chinatown, Tonight, and California Man. Pretty much the best contractual obligation material ever written.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on May 14, 2021, 05:13:43 PM
Greg Lake actually wrote to a newspaper to comment about the plot of some film or TV show where some character had a Christmas hit and never had to work again.
he said that was more than a slight exaggeration.
Nick Hornby's 'About a Boy' has a main character able to live of life of workless ease on the back of his old man writing a Christmas hit decades prior.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Lungpuddle on May 14, 2021, 05:25:51 PM
My heart sunk when I read that Wikipedia entry. But he's a musician, not a philosopher, and there's nothing that will ever spoil the music for me.
Also, Chinatown, Tonight, and California Man. Pretty much the best contractual obligation material ever written.

First concert I went to was Roy Wood in Croydon, and I absolutely loved it. It's upsetting that he's a brexiteer who shuts down local pubs, but at the same time I love a lot of Wizzard and other assorted stuff he's done. I also thought John Sessions was the best thing in Rob Grant's (and Andrew Marshall's) Quanderhorn and he was a big Farage supporter. At least it's possible to enjoy their stuff, unlike other people mentioned here where they make their politics and their post-Smiths career impossible to separate.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: the science eel on May 14, 2021, 05:55:05 PM
Roy Wood wrote Brontosaurus, Bev Bevan wrote Turkish Tram Conductor Blues and Jeff Lynne wrote Do Ya (which he subsequently re-recorded for a post-Wood ELO album). Wood should get a medal for Curly, Omnibus and Fire Brigade at least.

He should get his own ISLAND for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPSZJ3xH5sA
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 14, 2021, 05:56:51 PM
Roy Wood always gave fabulous interviews though. A real raconteur!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSpD595QipY
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: mobias on May 14, 2021, 06:07:28 PM
Jean-Michel Jarre. He'll toss off an album and call it Oygene 4 or Equinoxe Reloaded or whatever, even if it doesn't sound anything like the originals. Piggybacking on his own coat tails.

And he openly seems to admit he got the idea off Mike Oldfield doing endless cash ins with Tubular Bells sequels. I was a big Mike Oldfield fan but he's been past it, to varying degrees anyway, since the late 70's.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Goldentony on May 14, 2021, 06:08:28 PM
im disappointed in the Roy Revelations as much as anyone but i'll be dipped in dogshit if i'm not listening to Brontosaurus again, Cheap Trick don't sing it long enough during California Man so I can't stick with that
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Nice Relaxing Poo on May 14, 2021, 06:19:29 PM
Tbf my Dad is a Brexiteer like many boomers and I don't hate him so I can't really hold it against Roy too much. Also, from what I can tell, he bought the pub to live in and it had been abandoned by Marston's for a number of years.

This interview was reasonably enlightening, unless Roy is lying that is:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/wizzard-and-move-pop-legend-roy-239409


As a cross-over from the cunts in music thread, uber cunt Don Arden seems to loom large in his career fortunes.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: pupshaw on May 14, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Tbf my Dad is a Brexiteer like many boomers and I don't hate him so I can't really hold it against Roy too much. Also, from what I can tell, he bought the pub to live in and it had been abandoned by Marston's for a number of years.
Agreed, it's not like he's become active in right-wing politics or made any racist public comments, although I'm not sure I want to look too hard.

In that TOTP clip he's 26, and had been having hits since 1967.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 14, 2021, 09:06:08 PM
And he openly seems to admit he got the idea off Mike Oldfield doing endless cash ins with Tubular Bells sequels. I was a big Mike Oldfield fan but he's been past it, to varying degrees anyway, since the late 70's.
Oldfield's problem is he's always been very good at doing longform instrumental stuff, but has either been pressured into trying out new styles, or given them a go purely out creative curiosity. And he's failed every single time. Albums that vary his style slightly (the low-stakes Platinum and QE2; 1994's Hergest-Ridge-as-made-by-Enigma The Songs of Distant Earth) tend to produce some really good ideas, but his only truly great albums since 1978 have been the two times he's intentionally gone back to his roots, Amarok and Return to Ommadawn. It would have been career suicide at the time, but if he'd just stuck to longform instrumental stuff he would probably have a genuinely enviable back catalogue and a barrel load of critical acclaim.

Roy Wood is a difficult one, some of his social media stuff was genuinely unpleasant reading. Supporting Brexit and being a full-on outspoken campaigner are different things, and it's definitely tarnished my view of him a little. From a musical perspective, he's probably got a much tighter catalogue than his old pal Jeff Lynne, who's not written a genuinely worthwhile batch of songs since 1981.

As for Weezer, they seem to have fully adopted their 'meme band' status, which is really quite pathetic. The '80s covers album felt like they were trying to join in on a joke that was about them, and it seems to be a wider scale problem over the past few years. Yeah, the White Album was a few steps above the other recent albums, but most of them are really cringe-worthy. The outfits on the Red Album's cover were a warning sign, then literally everything about Raditude, Hurley with that fucking cover image, Everything Will Be Alright in the End using an image from a widely shared web story from about ten years prior, an '80s covers album, a straight-up pop album (Black), a poor attempt at chamber pop (OK Human), "hey fans like our brief silly guitar solo live, let's do a hair metal album and call it Van Weezer"... just about every step seems to find them trying one gimmick after another to stay in the spotlight. Rivers has basically turned into Alan Partridge.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Famous Mortimer on May 14, 2021, 09:20:01 PM
Tbf my Dad is a Brexiteer like many boomers and I don't hate him so I can't really hold it against Roy too much. Also, from what I can tell, he bought the pub to live in and it had been abandoned by Marston's for a number of years.

This interview was reasonably enlightening, unless Roy is lying that is:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/wizzard-and-move-pop-legend-roy-239409
There's a bit about celebs buying pubs in this 1999 episode of "Never Mind The Buzzcocks" that he's in - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7k0f4i - at around 7:30, but I can't be bothered to watch the entire episode to find out if he also relates his own tale. It's possible I'm entirely misremembering, but I have a fairly strong memory of hearing him do the anecdote then do like a thumbs up or a triumphant grin at the end of the story.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: the science eel on May 14, 2021, 09:26:32 PM
but 'Fire Brigade'
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: mobias on May 14, 2021, 10:30:18 PM
It would have been career suicide at the time, but if he'd just stuck to longform instrumental stuff he would probably have a genuinely enviable back catalogue and a barrel load of critical acclaim.



Yeah the sad fact that Amarok, possibly his best album, totally sank without trace and sold only a handful of copies only proved to him and his bank manager that long form complex instrumental albums isn't commercially viable. He himself thinks its best album and it does have a bit of a cult following now though.

I often wonder what the trajectory of his career would have been if he hadn't done that quasi new age rebirthing thing at the end of the 70's. His fourth album Incantations gives you a glimpse of a direction on music that sadly was never to be. Then again it all happened when punk came along the commerciality of the early 80's was on the horizon. Maybe he would have always embraced shorter commercially viable music regardless.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 15, 2021, 12:20:36 AM
I think I’ve read an interview in which he said he would probably have done that regardless, but even then I can still imagine it would have been more ‘Woodhenge’ and less ‘Shadow on the Wall’. His rebirthing thing is a point of contention where fan selfishness can come into play. It’s clear that as a result his creativity definitely went down the pan in an “ok yeah let’s do some singles and go on tour and try to be commercial, sounds like a laugh” sort of way, but at the same time it cured him of his debilitating anxiety and shyness and he seems like a much happier person because of it.
Mind you he’s also a brexiteer, despite having lived away from the UK for decades and having spent most of the ‘80s living in Europe to avoid paying tax, so maybe if he’d stayed a vulnerable, shy bloke he might have ended up less of a cunt. Who knows.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: PaulTMA on May 15, 2021, 12:28:41 AM
 .
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: timebug on May 15, 2021, 09:12:05 AM
Agree about McCartney, he should have knocked it on the head years back.Undoubtedly a talented WRITER of catchy toons, his voice has been pants for donkeys. Roy Wood is a weird one; I met him many centuries ago,when he was in The Move and he was a decent little chap, or seemed to be at the time.Then I read all the stuff he has come out with and wonder what/where it went pear-shaped for him?


Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: mobias on May 15, 2021, 09:30:08 AM

Mind you he’s also a brexiteer, despite having lived away from the UK for decades and having spent most of the ‘80s living in Europe to avoid paying tax, so maybe if he’d stayed a vulnerable, shy bloke he might have ended up less of a cunt. Who knows.

That was from a Daily Mail interview in which he very quickly took to his Facebook group after it was published to deny saying 'most' of the things in the interview, including one presumes saying he supported Donald Trump. He has said fairly consistently in interviews that he doesn't regard himself as a politically aware person and doesn't support any political party. All that being said we all know of course that certain ex hippie now rich rock stars of a certain vintage to tend to be at least small c conservative. His kids are certainly fairly actively left wing as far as I can see and he apparently passionately despises Eric Clapton. So there's that at least.

Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: shagatha crustie on May 15, 2021, 01:54:40 PM
Agree about McCartney, he should have knocked it on the head years back.Undoubtedly a talented WRITER of catchy toons, his voice has been pants for donkeys.

By my measure it was still in great nick up to 2007-8 ('House of Wax'!!!), but since then the waveriness has become more difficult to get past. He used to be able to elevate weaker material by conveying it with those wonderful pipes, can't rely on that anymore.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Dusty Substance on May 15, 2021, 02:16:18 PM

Giorgio Moroder recently turned 81. He's been releasing new music, collaborating and doing DJ sets over the last few years. Wouldn't say he's past it but his best days are long behind him.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 15, 2021, 07:04:42 PM
Given up the ghost on Pere Ubu. The last truly great song they did was "414 Seconds" about eight years ago and DT's "ironic" nativism/misogyny is waaaaaay past the point of being too intolerable to let me care about endless 'remixes' of recent boogie rock records.

All I can say is I'm glad he looks happy and like his health is under control these days, since he's been through the wringer.  Kind of like the embers of Fall where you got to hand it to the guy commiting to exhausting work through illnesses that would knock the shit out of anyone, but the music isn't exactly making me bop around the kitchen.

Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: McChesney Duntz on May 15, 2021, 08:02:57 PM
I think Bob Mould's still delivering the goods, once he got past that regrettable "techno" period of his (which is - gawd - a full two decades past already) and especially since he enlisted the rock-solid duo of Jason Narducy and Jon Wurster for his rhythm section.

And what about Wire? I'm not going to pretend I play the most recent stuff as obsessively as I do Chairs Missing (or A Bell is a Cup... for that matter), but they still feel as fully engaged and conceptually febrile as ever.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 15, 2021, 08:08:35 PM
There's a banging version of "The Art of Persistence" on the new record. I don't know how they do it. Seems like every time they seem like they're going to dwindle into interchangeable sugary Colin sing-a-longs, they either re-invigorate a bunch of old chestnuts or whack out a bunch of weird pop songs again. It's like they can tweak their formula just incrementally, and that gives them all the inspiration they need to set them off again on a new trove of material. The most conceptually restless band, even now when they could just be doing the same old stuff over and over, they could get away with "Map Ref" and "Strange" forever, instead they doing shoegazey remakes of deep cuts like "German Shepherds".

Finally got to seem them a few years back and certainly didn't disappoint, lovely that the old song they did was "A Blessed State".

Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: the science eel on May 15, 2021, 08:43:36 PM
Given up the ghost on Pere Ubu. The last truly great song they did was "414 Seconds" about eight years ago and DT's "ironic" nativism/misogyny is waaaaaay past the point of being too intolerable to let me care about endless 'remixes' of recent boogie rock records.


WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?! Their last couple of studio releases have been fantastic - they sound totally reenergised after years of so-so 'difficult' stuff.

Maybe you just like so-so 'difficult' stuff...
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 15, 2021, 08:54:03 PM
And what about Wire? I'm not going to pretend I play the most recent stuff as obsessively as I do Chairs Missing (or A Bell is a Cup... for that matter), but they still feel as fully engaged and conceptually febrile as ever.
What I like about Wire is that very few fans seem to like everything they've done, but also very few fans can agree what their good and bad material is. I remember getting into a Facebook discussion with a friend-of-a-friend who thought Object 47 is one of their best albums and Change Becomes Us is unlistenable, bland shit. Which is almost exactly the polar opposite of my view. Self-titled, Nocturnal Koreans and Silver/Lead all seemed to vie for 'best new album' in their fanbase for a few years - they're all stylistically similar, but the songs themselves seem to rub people up different ways. For me, Silver/Lead is the best thing they've done since the '80s, a gloriously understated mellow indie record, but some people find it really dull. Was worried Mind Hive would be more of the same, but it ended up opening with possibly their heaviest track ever and ending on a run of Eno-esque ambient pop songs. They're one of my favourite bands, despite me only really liking about half of their albums, because of this consistent moving forward, sometimes in tiny increments, then unexpectedly in huge leaps.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 15, 2021, 08:55:31 PM
Todd Rundgren is a mercurial force. Just when I've written him off, he returns with more gems. Same goes for Elvis Costello. And Beck.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 15, 2021, 08:57:59 PM
What I like about Wire is that very few fans seem to like everything they've done, but also very few fans can agree what their good and bad material is. I remember getting into a Facebook discussion with a friend-of-a-friend who thought Object 47 is one of their best albums and Change Becomes Us is unlistenable, bland shit. Which is almost exactly the polar opposite of my view. Self-titled, Nocturnal Koreans and Silver/Lead all seemed to vie for 'best new album' in their fanbase for a few years - they're all stylistically similar, but the songs themselves seem to rub people up different ways. For me, Silver/Lead is the best thing they've done since the '80s, a gloriously understated mellow indie record, but some people find it really dull. Was worried Mind Hive would be more of the same, but it ended up opening with possibly their heaviest track ever and ending on a run of Eno-esque ambient pop songs. They're one of my favourite bands, despite me only really liking about half of their albums, because of this consistent moving forward, sometimes in tiny increments, then unexpectedly in huge leaps.

Very true. I'm with you on Change Becomes Us. Bland shit? Your friend of a friend can do one. It's fantastic and one of the best gigs I've ever attended.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: jamiefairlie on May 15, 2021, 08:59:54 PM
I love Wire  today just as much as I did in 1978 and if anything I value and appreciate them even more for not becoming what all their contemporaries became.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 15, 2021, 09:02:48 PM
I love Wire  today just as much as I did in 1978 and if anything I value and appreciate them even more for not becoming what all their contemporaries became.

They're extraordinary.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: jamiefairlie on May 15, 2021, 09:06:18 PM
Very true. I'm with you on Change Becomes Us. Bland shit? Your friend of a friend can do one. It's fantastic and one of the best gigs I've ever attended.

Yeah strange opinion given that it’s effectively their unreleased fourth album and much closer in style and composition to 154/Chairs Missing that their later material. My favourite of their recent albums.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 15, 2021, 10:12:53 PM
Yes, it's one of the more baffling opinions I've come across over the years. But it gives an idea of the range of opinions Wire fans have.
And yeah, how many bands, 45 years into their career, continue to challenge themselves and still manage to sound contemporary while doing it? Yeah, Manscape, The Drill and a lot of The First Letter was a creative dead end, but otherwise they've been consistently creative otherwise.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 15, 2021, 10:21:35 PM
Loved Change Becomes Us, disliked Object 47. Wire seem to have a precision targetting on some sets of their fanbase - definitely felt like an exploration of the unreleased record was aimed at me, and anyone who dwells on the what-ifs around the Document and Eyewitness era. It could've easily gone wrong and ruined the mystique that material has built up but it ended up deepening in. Definitely made good on their reputation of unpredictability by putting out a studio version of "Eels Sang Lingo" in 2013.

My one major disappointment with post-reunion Wire is that Red Barked Tree was relatively undercooked. It's their best sounding record since 154 by far, but the material isn't quite up to the sound and them doing a 180 from distorted dancefloor pop to meditative material and even acoustic tracks deserved a bit better than it got. Still great but its their closest to equalling their big three and they could've done it! How the fuck does a band cut something like "Bad Worn Thing" after being around for THIRTY FIVE years? Of course Wire being Wire they immediately went from their warmest ever record to putting out a string of their most processed sounding work since the late 80s.

Maybe you just like so-so 'difficult' stuff...

I think I probably do. I like Pennsylvania and the first Pale Boys record a lot.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: pupshaw on May 16, 2021, 09:27:08 AM
Todd Rundgren is a mercurial force. Just when I've written him off, he returns with more gems. Same goes for Elvis Costello. And Beck.

Todd is a good example of how an artist should handle getting older, although I wince a little at his reenactments of yesteryear material. His voice was so incredibly strong at his peak and of course it's rather depleted now.

The very worst example of being past it, although he's no longer with us, is Keith Emerson, the antithesis of Todd Rundgren in many ways. Arm and hand surgery completely ruined his technique and made him sound like a total beginner. That combined with awful choice of instrumentation led to 30 years of hurt. You just should look at what he did with the Nice (there are quite a few vids on Youtube) to see what a bummer it must have been for him.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Famous Mortimer on May 17, 2021, 05:27:24 PM
I just popped on an Adrian Belew album from a few years back, and as much as I loved the magic he sprinkled over the 80s, looks like he's run out of whatever it was.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: phantom_power on May 17, 2021, 11:11:04 PM
Eno's still got it, I think. And David Byrne. His last album was one of his best
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sutin on May 19, 2021, 11:18:41 AM
Can't agree with Beck. I still enjoy his records fine but nothing post-90s holds a candle to the Mellow Gold-Midnite Vultures era. His wordplay became a lot more forced, his singing voice went weird and it doesn't  feel like he was pushing forward anymore.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Johnboy on May 19, 2021, 11:35:34 AM
Richard Thompson
Paul Weller
Joe Jackson
Madness
The Psychedelic Furs
Ride

Still making pretty good records and doing very good gigs.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 19, 2021, 02:32:38 PM
I find Richard Thompson's released the same album for the last 20 years. At least.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Egyptian Feast on May 19, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Can't agree with Beck. I still enjoy his records fine but nothing post-90s holds a candle to the Mellow Gold-Midnite Vultures era. His wordplay became a lot more forced, his singing voice went weird and it doesn't  feel like he was pushing forward anymore.

Whenever I see those stupid worst-to-best rankings of Beck albums and click on them because I am a twat, they always have Mellow Gold almost at the bottom along with Stereopathetic Soul Manure and One Foot In The Grave and fucking Sea Change is near or on top, cunts. Stop getting Beck wrong. I'm talking to you too, Beck.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: kngen on May 19, 2021, 10:16:59 PM
I think Bob Mould's still delivering the goods, once he got past that regrettable "techno" period of his (which is - gawd - a full two decades past already) and especially since he enlisted the rock-solid duo of Jason Narducy and Jon Wurster for his rhythm section.

Yeah, I'd take his most recent stuff over Workbook or (most of) Black Sheets of Rain. My friend told me a lovely story about when he went to pick up Silver Age from the post office and dusted off his CD Walkman to listen to it on the way home. Halfway through the first track, he was so overcome he had to have a wee sitdown on a park bench and compose himself.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: daf on May 19, 2021, 10:32:23 PM
he was so overcome he had to have a wee

Dirty bugger!
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: lankyguy95 on May 19, 2021, 11:09:32 PM
Last year's Bob Mould album is a blast. That reminds me, I haven't put it on in a while.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 19, 2021, 11:47:54 PM
Whenever I see those stupid worst-to-best rankings of Beck albums and click on them because I am a twat, they always have Mellow Gold almost at the bottom along with Stereopathetic Soul Manure and One Foot In The Grave and fucking Sea Change is near or on top, cunts. Stop getting Beck wrong. I'm talking to you too, Beck.
Other than Nigel Godrich's then-usual 'novelty whooshy noises at the end to try and distract from the lack of dynamics in the rest of the song' production, I do like Sea Change a lot, but yes, I'm always a bit baffled by people who rate his later albums over those early lo-fi ones. Stereopathetic Soul Manure is my favourite thing of his.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Egyptian Feast on May 20, 2021, 12:24:44 AM
It's great, these people have no taste. 'Satan Gave Me A Taco' is a masterpiece; still gives me a shiver, still extremely funny.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: H-O-W-L on May 20, 2021, 10:18:53 AM
Devin Townsend still has it, for sure. Roger Waters definitely lost it in the 90s (at the latest). Peter Gabriel has also lost his charm not gonna lie. The piano-and-quiet-whisper-singing stuff is really dull for a man who did some really beautiful and pioneering stuff.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 20, 2021, 10:47:21 AM
Roger Waters definitely lost it in the 90s (at the latest).

I'mma gonna say it, his last studio album was alright.

Live on the other hand, just give up mate, I know you like money, but…
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sutin on May 23, 2021, 06:57:00 PM
Whenever I see those stupid worst-to-best rankings of Beck albums and click on them because I am a twat, they always have Mellow Gold almost at the bottom along with Stereopathetic Soul Manure and One Foot In The Grave and fucking Sea Change is near or on top, cunts. Stop getting Beck wrong. I'm talking to you too, Beck.

I agree 100% with all of this.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sutin on May 23, 2021, 07:04:21 PM
Other than Nigel Godrich's then-usual 'novelty whooshy noises at the end to try and distract from the lack of dynamics in the rest of the song' production, I do like Sea Change a lot, but yes, I'm always a bit baffled by people who rate his later albums over those early lo-fi ones. Stereopathetic Soul Manure is my favourite thing of his.

I've barely revisited Sea Change since 2002, such was my disappointment at the time of release. Everything that made his music interesting to me was absent from that album. A middle of the road bore that does not deserve an aota of the puzzling critical praise it gets.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Key on May 23, 2021, 10:43:04 PM
I've barely revisited Sea Change since 2002, such was my disappointment at the time of release. Everything that made his music interesting to me was absent from that album. A middle of the road bore that does not deserve an aota of the puzzling critical praise it gets.

At the time, I remember sort of thinking, ah what a clever guy. He's ironically affecting this detatched aura to mimic the numb shock of a breakup. But then after the next couple of albums I realised, nope thats just him now, its here to stay. His last couple of albums have been utter gash.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sutin on May 23, 2021, 10:56:56 PM
At the time, I remember sort of thinking, ah what a clever guy. He's ironically affecting this detatched aura to mimic the numb shock of a breakup. But then after the next couple of albums I realised, nope thats just him now, its here to stay. His last couple of albums have been utter gash.

Absolutely! What happened to him between 2000 and 2002?! Scientology?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: DrGreggles on May 23, 2021, 11:07:38 PM
Wasn't he a Scientologist from birth and has now left?

For what it's worth, I don't think he's made a decent album since Midnite Vultures - which, admittedly, was fucking great.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: DJ Bob Hoskins on May 23, 2021, 11:12:29 PM
I’m no Beck aficionado by any stretch, and I hear what y’all are saying (I think Sea Change is definitely overrated compared to earlier works) but I still think he deserves credit for constantly changing things up with each album. I loved The Information and Modern Guilt, partly because they sound very different from each other and yet don’t really sound like they could have been made by anybody else.

Likewise I think Dreams was one of the more inventive and cleverly-produced pop singles of recent years, and part of the reason I like it so much is I can’t quite reconcile  that it’s by the same guy who wrote Loser.

I’ve always thought of him as being similar to Prince (not in the same league, I should add, lest I’m labelled a heretic), in the sense that I couldn’t be arsed with most of their later output but always had respect for the ability to keep on reinventing themselves and following their own path. as well as remaining a kick-ass live act.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sutin on May 23, 2021, 11:16:20 PM
Wasn't he a Scientologist from birth and has now left?

For what it's worth, I don't think he's made a decent album since Midnite Vultures - which, admittedly, was fucking great.

Yeah you're right, I was just trying to make a quip.

Midnite Vultures was definitely the end of the line for Classic Beck. I enjoy some later stuff fine, but maybe only because my expectations are now so low.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: DrGreggles on May 23, 2021, 11:18:59 PM
Still plenty of good stuff on the new* albums, they just feel a bit less consistent to me overall in terms of quality.

*anything this century
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Spiteface on May 24, 2021, 09:44:53 AM
The Manics, though? Damn straight. I only go for the old stuff and Futurology and maybe Lifeblood and a couple of songs off This Is My Truth.
I still bloody love the Manics, and will always be excited when a new album comes out or they tour. Been a constant in my life for almost a quarter of a century.


But while I don't think they're past it, I wonder if they think they are. You cited Futurology, and you're right to do so. It's a good album, well-liked by Manics fans and critics praised it at the time. But the band never really did a proper tour for it, aside from some gigs a few months before.

 Instead, they used the goodwill from that and Rewind the Film the year before to embark on a 20th Anniversary tour for The Holy Bible. Don't get me wrong, that was great, especially seeing just the three of them playing the album in full, no additional musicians. But it was really the start of them drifting into being more of a "legacy act" - I didn't even mind the Everything Must Go anniversary, it's an equally key work in their canon.

But a further anniversary tour for This is My Truth?  Taking the piss. Still went to see them twice on that tour, but when they're still capable of making good albums it's frustrating that their live sets look like they're not that proud of their later works. They're far from Liam Gallagher levels of becoming their own tribute band, but it feels like an admission of defeat, almost.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: purlieu on May 24, 2021, 02:35:05 PM
Yeah, the set lists are pretty static these days, aren't they? It was great to see Solitude Sometimes Is and Sleepflower added for the This is My Truth tour, they do like to throw in a surprise or two, but they're just greatest hits sets for the most part these days. I'd be surprised if the entire Ultra Vivid Lament tour has any 2001-2018 material other than Your Love Alone, Walk Me to the Bridge, International Blue and one surprise track, probably something from Know Your Enemy as they're supposedly doing a 20th anniversary reissue of that this year.
They're obviously aware that a sizeable portion of their fanbase lost a lot if interest around the turn of the century, so '90s-heavy set lists make some sense, but given that, other than Lifeblood, their 21st century albums have charted as well as and often better than their first few, they obviously also have a lot of dedicated fans who keep up with everything they do. It's obvious from reading stuff on Forever Delayed that there are a lot of people who'd rather see them do Peeled Apples or Dead Martyrs or 1985 or 30 Year War or Let's Go to War instead of You Stole the Sun or Motorcycle Emptiness for the 50th time.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Kankurette on May 24, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
I still bloody love the Manics, and will always be excited when a new album comes out or they tour. Been a constant in my life for almost a quarter of a century.


But while I don't think they're past it, I wonder if they think they are. You cited Futurology, and you're right to do so. It's a good album, well-liked by Manics fans and critics praised it at the time. But the band never really did a proper tour for it, aside from some gigs a few months before.

 Instead, they used the goodwill from that and Rewind the Film the year before to embark on a 20th Anniversary tour for The Holy Bible. Don't get me wrong, that was great, especially seeing just the three of them playing the album in full, no additional musicians. But it was really the start of them drifting into being more of a "legacy act" - I didn't even mind the Everything Must Go anniversary, it's an equally key work in their canon.

But a further anniversary tour for This is My Truth?  Taking the piss. Still went to see them twice on that tour, but when they're still capable of making good albums it's frustrating that their live sets look like they're not that proud of their later works. They're far from Liam Gallagher levels of becoming their own tribute band, but it feels like an admission of defeat, almost.
I was going to see them on the This Is My Truth tour but missed the gig due to personal circumstances. Tbh I was only really going cos my mates were.

I got a ticket for their Manchester gig in October and I'm sure my brother will as well, because however much we bitch about the Manics' new stuff, we both know we'll end up going to see them, if only for the first four albums and the odd curveball (and some of the later stuff too). Which is kind of sad, really.

I seem to remember Futurology came out near the time of the Holy Bible tour because in the second half, they did a few songs from it. Maybe that was why they didn't properly tour it.

ETA: I would love it if they did something off JFPL live. I don't think I've ever seen them do anything from it, the bastards.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: sutin on May 24, 2021, 08:35:53 PM
I used to go see Ray Davies a lot in the '00s, in a period when he had released two relatively well-recieved solo LPs. At most he'd play one or two of the new songs and the rest was all Kinks '60s/early '70s chestnuts.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Spiteface on May 25, 2021, 11:31:42 AM
ETA: I would love it if they did something off JFPL live. I don't think I've ever seen them do anything from it, the bastards.
I sadly couldn't make to the initial tour they did where they played the whole album, as the sole Welsh date was in Llandudno, rather than the usual Cardiff/Newport venues, but I saw them at Newport Centre the following year touring PFAYM, and while Peeled Apples was quickly dropped from the set early on (as was Sleepflower), they still did Jackie Collins Existential Question Time. That's the only time.


Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: non capisco on May 25, 2021, 12:47:11 PM
Peeled Apples is such an (I'm guessing unconscious) melodic steal from Heaven 17's 'Temptation' I wonder if they dropped it out of embarrassment after someone told them.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Nice Relaxing Poo on May 29, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
Jimmy Page seemingly gave up seriously making music the day John Bonham died and just became the curator of Led Zeppelin's work. Yes, there have been a few albums, but nothing of the type of career that Plant has built for himself.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 29, 2021, 07:55:21 PM
Sometimes legacy artists pander to their fanbase and make the album they believe those people want to hear. It's often a no-win situation because they are either accused of repeating themselves or not as good as they used to be. Logically, experience and honing one's craft must improve the art but they're forever held to ransom by the past.

 If Elvis Costello's retro-sounding 2018 album, Look Now was released in 1983, I reckon it would be hailed as one of his best, but it's largely dismissed because he's a man in his sixties and not considered relevant. A remark usually made by middle-aged men.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: the science eel on May 29, 2021, 11:27:16 PM
aye?

I might give it a go then
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 30, 2021, 01:36:01 AM
aye?

I might give it a go then

It's proper early 80s old school Costello pop. Hope you enjoy it, eel.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: jamiefairlie on May 30, 2021, 02:16:45 AM
Logically, experience and honing one's craft must improve the art


I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: chveik on May 30, 2021, 03:04:00 AM
his album with the roots was embarrassing and proper shite
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 30, 2021, 02:27:59 PM
When I was first listening to Elvis Costello's back catalogue whenever a song I hadn't noticed before caught my attention, it would proper sink its hook in and I'd be listening to it multiple times a day for a week.

Now I hear his new records sometimes and while I'm listening I'm thinking "old bags still got it, this could be off Imperial Bedroom/Blood and Chocolate!" but as soon as its done its in one ear and out the other. I don't know if its just me. Those records definitely sound good tho.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: daf on May 30, 2021, 02:42:49 PM
I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.

I lost interest as soon as Costello learned how to read music and sing "properly". I think Sting also went completely off the boil due to this.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 30, 2021, 04:54:03 PM
I believe the exact opposite, technical proficiency and experience tends to produce conformity and jaded repetition of successful formulas.

Not in all cases, surely? I think long running artists definitely become more adept musicians on stage even if they don’t leap about as much as they once did and use an autocue. Mind you, sound and vision from a technical aspect has immeasurably improved the live experience.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: jamiefairlie on May 30, 2021, 05:22:06 PM
Sure, in a live context possibly (although even there it adds a veneer of lifelessness), but I was talking about creating new material.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: The Culture Bunker on May 30, 2021, 11:32:02 PM
I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: Brundle-Fly on May 31, 2021, 12:00:00 AM
I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

Or fat-headed or curdled?
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: the science eel on May 31, 2021, 12:25:21 AM
I'd be happy to pour red-hot sand down Billy Bragg's back after I'd thrown him into a freezing-cold lake just after setting fire to his head, just to see if that sharpens his artistic faculties
Title: Re: Your heroes, are they PAST IT?
Post by: pupshaw on May 31, 2021, 02:47:42 PM
I do wonder if songwriters like Costello, Springsteen or (a particular example for me) Billy Bragg become less interesting, in terms of their work, once their personal lives were all lovely and settled.

Billy Joel too