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Forums => Oscillations => Topic started by: holyzombiejesus on May 17, 2021, 04:21:35 PM

Title: Different versions of same album
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 17, 2021, 04:21:35 PM
I guess this usually happens when bands are rumbled for using unauthorised samples. I really like Wild Nothing's Gemini album and have only just learned that my favourite track on it - Chinatown - has been changed on later pressings, presumably to remove the Chantal Goya sample. Similarly, The Go! Team's debut is now different to when initially released (or had a different release somewhere down the line) due to uncleared samples being removed.

I used to have a promo of Spiritualized's LAGWAFIS which had a bit of an Elvis song playing through it and that was removed from the actual release.

Any other examples, especially for other reasons?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 17, 2021, 04:38:36 PM
The Avalanches
Some SST records but most obv Double Nickles which lacks songs and has a bad new mix on CD.
ZZ Tops first few albums were changed for CD.
Zappa destroyed his back catalogue.
The Fall's Perverted by Language is a different album than it used to be - some copies start with 4 tracks that were never on the original album and a few songs are, bizarrely, shortened to have Mark's spoken word rants editted out. Real New Fall LP/Country On The Click counts too, not only different mixes but different takes.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: markburgle on May 17, 2021, 05:07:46 PM
The Fall's ImperialWax Solvent was also remixed and changed around by MES prior to release. The producer talked up the original as a lost classic and said a lot of the best vox and the best song were missing from the released version, but the original mix is out now and it ain't all that.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 17, 2021, 06:07:36 PM
The Fall's ImperialWax Solvent was also remixed and changed around by MES prior to release. The producer talked up the original as a lost classic and said a lot of the best vox and the best song were missing from the released version, but the original mix is out now and it ain't all that.

Didn't like either of them aside from "50 Year Old Man" (obv) but its clear it could have been something great had the stars aligned. I think the next record was as good as any Fall record. The last good one.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Egyptian Feast on May 17, 2021, 06:26:32 PM
I used to have a promo of Spiritualized's LAGWAFIS which had a bit of an Elvis song playing through it and that was removed from the actual release.

I had that promo too. That version was finally cleared for a recentish reissue (with the black sleeve) and replaced the old title track. I'm not sure if that will be the case for the upcoming re-release, but I much prefer it to the compromised version.

I first heard this version (https://www.discogs.com/X-Ray-Spex-Germfree-Adolescents/release/9768072) of Germfree Adolescents and the proper version has never made as much sense to me. 'The Day The World Turned Day-Glo' is an incredible opening track. Great closing track too, but it has more impact at the beginning.

I have the original Mo Wax edition of the first Dr Octagon (https://www.discogs.com/Dr-Octagon-Dr-Octagon/release/1232492) album and was confused when a mate played me the more common later version. Not only was it rejigged and had a live track added ('1977') but it was missing two of my favourite tracks, 'On Production' (https://youtu.be/lzAl_5m5DPo) and 'Biology 101' (https://youtu.be/tS64Mz-Z_7I). I'm sure there was a reason these were dropped and not the nasty skit 'A Trip To The Gynecologyst', but it wouldn't be good enough to satisfy me.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: An tSaoi on May 17, 2021, 06:40:56 PM
How many Tubular Bells has yer man done at this stage?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: chveik on May 17, 2021, 08:40:00 PM
We Can't Be Stopped/The Geto Boys (the cleaner Rick Rubin version is superior)
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: The Culture Bunker on May 17, 2021, 08:44:55 PM
The first Psychedelic Furs album had a different cover and tracklisting for the US market - they ditched 'Blacks/Radio' (considered a tad lyrically problematic) and threw in a couple of songs they'd recorded with Martin Hannet.

Their third album, 'Forever Now', got a horrendous alternate cover for the US market that apparently made Richard Butler weep, and the tracklisting was switched around a bit. I have the original UK vinyl version and the CD reissue with uses the US order - prefer the latter.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: purlieu on May 17, 2021, 09:18:05 PM
How many Tubular Bells has yer man done at this stage?
There are three versions of Tubular Bells: the original 1973 version, the obnoxious 2003 re-recording, and the 2008 remix (which, as with the following two albums, is now the only version you can buy from a record shop. He’s an arse)
Then there are various related albums: The Orchestral Tubular Bells, arranged by David Bedford and disliked by Mike; Tubular Bells II, a truly horrible cash-in album which follows the structure of the original and moves a few of the notes around; Tubular Bells III, which has a couple of tracks based on sections of the first, but is otherwise an original album in its own right; Tubular Bells IV, which he announced a few years ago, and is set to be fully remixable by listeners, and will be premiered in a live performance from space[1]. Nothing’s  been heard since.
Then there are two more which aren’t actually Tubular Bells, but just use the name and bell logo to cash in: The Millennium Bell, and Tubular Beats, a terrible eurotrance remix album he recorded with York.
Then there are numerous compilations with the bell logo on the cover, as well as all the singles from TBII that also feature it.

In short: too many.
 1. No, really
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: An tSaoi on May 17, 2021, 09:23:31 PM
Jesus Christ. Is the "obnoxious 2003 re-recording" the one with John Cleese as the MC? That made me do a proper Lyndhurstian double take when I first heard it.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: jobotic on May 17, 2021, 09:23:39 PM
ZZ Tops first few albums were changed for CD.

Oh. Didn't know that, how?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: purlieu on May 17, 2021, 09:30:06 PM
Jesus Christ. Is the "obnoxious 2003 re-recording" the one with John Cleese as the MC? That made me do a proper Lyndhurstian double take when I first heard it.
That's the one. He redid the whole thing from scratch because he was unhappy with the original album, and in the process made it sound dull, digital, lifeless and just totally lacking the feel of the original. He didn't even try to replicate some of the original effects, which is most obvious on the "basses" section near the start, which is utterly horrible. John Cleese hamming it up is a really unpleasant replacement for Vivian Stanshall's wonderful off-the-cuff original.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: An tSaoi on May 17, 2021, 09:36:12 PM
Yes, dreadful. I've heard that Oldfield has some perfect version of Tubular Bells in his head, and he's never been able to get it out properly, and nearly went mad doing loads of takes and overdubs and messing around with it.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: purlieu on May 17, 2021, 09:58:08 PM
The Amorphous Androgynous - The Isness. By far the most confusing release I've ever come across. I'm currently working on a blog (that might become a book) covering the entire FSOL back catalogue, and they've always been a bit of a nightmare for making unnecessarily complicated decisions when it comes to releases, contradictory titling, etc., but this one takes the cake.

Version 1. Announced in late 2001 under the title Galaxial Pharmaceutical. 14 tracks.
Version 2. Name changed to The Isness, some promo versions circulate, although to whom remains a mystery, as no published review has ever referred to this tracklist. Mastered at Abbey Road and informally known as the Abbey Road Version. 13 tracks.
Version 3. A very different version: missing two tracks from Version 2, adding another (an edit of a song which had been released under the FSOL name the previous year), and half of the remaining tracks present as alternate mixes, including two as radically different versions. Sent out as promos, albeit in the same sleeve as Version 2, thus most reviews (and the leak) got all the titles wrong. The major changes were due to Gaz Cobain believing Version 2 to be "too masculine". The tracklist actually runs closer to Version 1. 12 tracks.
Version 4. The general retail CD release, the same as Version 3, only with an added title track, and a very slightly edited version of one track. Limited edition burgopak (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO_aKzXeMFU) sleeve, standard edition in jewel case, US edition in jewel case. Released as Amorphous Androgynous, except in America where the label decided to put The Future Sound of London on the front to boost sales (their press release also made no reference to the change in style to psychedelic rock). The US label also put out the 2,500 copies of Version 2 they'd made because they didn't want to scrap them, later claiming it was an accident. It's become a bit of a collector's item. 13 tracks.
Version 5. The 2LP edition (UK only, the US label being as lazy as possible again) is the same as Version 4, only with a totally different running order to fit it onto the format's limitations, and with an added track not on the CD version. This bonus track was never mentioned anywhere. 14 tracks.
Version 6. A 2CD edition with a bonus disc called The Otherness. The Otherness brings together two alternate mixes and an exclusive track from Version 2, as well as the bonus track from Version 5, as well as some remixes and otherwise unreleased tracks. Released as another burgopak, later re-released in a jewel case without the band's knowledge. In the US, the bonus disc was licensed to a different label from the original album as a standalone release. 27 tracks.
Version 7. Gaz later acknowledged that his main problem with Version 2 was the mastering being too loud, and that it was musically far superior (a belief backed up by general fan opinion). And so a newly mastered Version 2 was released for Record Store Day, under the name Abbey Road Cut, despite the new mastering meaning it wasn't actually mastered at Abbey Road. And, of course, it turned out to be a different mix. One track is missing, two more are subtly different, two more are very noticeably different, some of the bloody track titles are different. 12 tracks.

I'm just glad I became a FSOL megafan rather than, say, a MBV one. I would have been so bored as a teenager without this sort of stuff going on.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: studpuppet on May 17, 2021, 10:30:32 PM
Does a substantial re-record of most of the tracks on an unreleased album count?

(https://www.sputnikmusic.com/images/albums/158502.jpg)   (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41akuWaiTCL.jpg)
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: studpuppet on May 17, 2021, 11:00:22 PM
Rubber Soul: the Fab Four's early albums were all mutilated by Capitol, usually to cut the song count and cobble the unused songs together with singles on later cut'n'shut albums. But on this one they ditched four songs ("Drive My Car", "Nowhere Man", "What Goes On" and "If I Needed Someone") and replaced them with two songs from the UK version of Help! ("I've Just Seen a Face" and "It's Only Love"). It gives the record a much folkier, acoustic sound, and it's this US version that Pet Sounds was trying to surpass.

UK:

A-side
1.   "Drive My Car"
2.   "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)"
3.   "You Won't See Me"
4.   "Nowhere Man"
5.   "Think for Yourself"
6.   "The Word"
7.   "Michelle"

B-side
1.   "What Goes On"
2.   "Girl"
3.   "I'm Looking Through You"
4.   "In My Life"
5.   "Wait"
6.   "If I Needed Someone"
7.   "Run for Your Life"

US:

A-side
1.   "I've Just Seen a Face"
2.   "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)"
3.   "You Won't See Me"
4.   "Think for Yourself"
5.   "The Word"
6.   "Michelle"

B-side
1.   "It's Only Love"
2.   "Girl"
3.   "I'm Looking Through You"
4.   "In My Life"
5.   "Wait"
6.   "Run for Your Life"
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 17, 2021, 11:01:54 PM
There are loads of Guided By Voices albums that were altered a bit or completely reworked during production. Lots of the working versions are available on bootlegs and documented on gbvdb.com

I had a weird one. I have Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde on vinyl and Passing My By is very slightly different between that and the CD version. The line "she can be my broad, and I can be her n****" is changed so the last word is replaced by a repeat of "I can be her". Also the line "she was a flake like corn and I was born not to understand" has a slight pause between "like" and "corn".

Then there is The KLF...
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Magnum Valentino on May 17, 2021, 11:02:51 PM
Oh. Didn't know that, how?

There's reverb added to the guitar and the drums sound like they've been mapped to (and replaced by) a drum machine, like on later albums.

Suffocation didn't like the production on their second album, so from their third album onwards they included one song per album (usually reserved for Japanese editions) that had been re-recorded from said release, reassembling the album over the course of about 15 years and several different drummers.

The initial pressings of HIStory by Michael Jackson had racial slurs on They Don't Care About Us that Jackson had to remove and repress at cost. Apparently the original CD issue of Bad has different versions of a few tracks.

Orbital's first album is different on each of the three formats it was pressed on.

My Dying Bride's second has different art for each format.

The Fragile by NIN has extra tracks on vinyl.

And Taylor Swift's recent re-record campaign springs to mind.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: studpuppet on May 17, 2021, 11:08:28 PM
Oh, and early verions of Squirrel and G-Man Twenty Four Hour Party People Plastic Face Carnt Smile (White Out) originally had Desmond (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucX-hpeRoCc) on it until it was replaced with Twenty Four Hour Party People, after Apple's[1] legal people got in touch.
 1. Or whoever owned the rights to Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da at the time.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 17, 2021, 11:52:26 PM
Oh. Didn't know that, how?

Drum were sweetened with electronics and reverb. I think some of the bass was re-recorded too. The shitty electronic drum versions of "Waitin' For the Bus" and "La Grange" you sometimes hear on dadrock and supermarket radio are from this. Yuck.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Magnum Valentino on May 18, 2021, 12:23:30 AM
Slipknot's first album was reissued with a track removed because it had a sample they thought was from a documentary (and thus free to use) that was actually from a hoax website full of sort of torture porn stories supported by audio snippets which, as works of fiction, were protected by copyright.

Jazz albums sometimes get conflated for reissues. The two LPs Buddy Rich and Harry Edison did together were reordered and lumped together on one CD with a generic title like 'The Complete 1955 Sessions' but there's no new material, and no original artwork. This probably happens a lot with very old stuff that's not popular enough to be properly re-released.

The Smiths and Meat is Murder have arguably each album's biggest song (This Charming Man and How Soon is Now respectively) on the CD versions, but both are absent on the original and reissued LPs.

Carnivore's first album was completely remixed and the original removed from sale. Not sure if I've ever heard that version.

Vapor Trails by Rush was brickwalled and a remixed album was eventually released but cost the album a lot of its energy despite the improved clarity of the playing.

Most of AC/DC's earliest albums exist in different formats inside and outside Australia with different tracks and covers, and their first two albums were combined to create their international 'first' album, leaving about an album's worth of tracks not released outside Australia.

Type O Negative's second album was re-released to replace the cover photograph of their singer's splayed asshole. I also suspect this photograph was designed to annoy Glen Danzig who might have made a bit of noise and got his way. Also, their THIRD album was reissued a year later with a few tracks removed, the rest reordered, a different closer and an alternate shot from the same cover shoot. I'd quite like a copy of that.

That Miles Davis album they reissued with a different title and a photo of him playing to replace the glamour shot of his wife because they didn't think people wanted an LP cover with a black woman on it.

The Sugababes, Atomic Kitten and Divine Heresy albums that were reissued with re-recorded vocals to accommodate new singers mid-tour.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Pabst on May 18, 2021, 03:45:35 AM
Deathchants, breakdowns and military waltzes by John Fahey is one of the only albums I have never paused at any point once it's hit what could be technically counted as bonus trscks, both versions recorded 10 years apart, only the first having the incredibly raucous flute tune. (Tried to find a playlist of both together but there was nothing in the right order or not including separate versions of the same songs., But 1963 and 1974 and they are available elsewhere).
On another note, just read this
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/national-recording-preservation-board/documents/OKEH%2520LAUGHING%2520RECORD.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjOosCymNLwAhXkCGMBHT3BCuAQFjAAegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0grkLTY4CSFkyWMQ7Uiaf_ (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.loc.gov/static/programs/national-recording-preservation-board/documents/OKEH%2520LAUGHING%2520RECORD.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjOosCymNLwAhXkCGMBHT3BCuAQFjAAegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0grkLTY4CSFkyWMQ7Uiaf_)
About
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BavE2cFUT54 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BavE2cFUT54)



But the reason I've been thinking about it for the last 8 years is because in a Mississippi records talk I went to he (he? Yeah, him) claimed  they were forced to record that over and over again for about 24 hours and after it at least half of each of them committed suicide.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: sutin on May 18, 2021, 08:22:04 AM
Bobby Conn's first album is completely different on vinyl than it is on CD.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 18, 2021, 09:01:13 AM
There is an extra 30 second track at the end of the vinyl version of REMs Reckoning that isn't on any other format (though it might have been reinstated on the re-issues)

What about tracks with locked grooves on the vinyl versions, like Taking Tiger Mountain by Eno? I think some CD/tape versions have an amount of the repeated sound before ending and some miss it off completely
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: buzby on May 18, 2021, 09:01:32 AM
Then there is The KLF...
The White Room OST, scrapped in 1989
Reworked into The White Room (UK & Europe) in 1991
Edited for the  US release for sample clearance, and also to replace LTTT and Justified & Ancient with the later single versions
2021 'Directors Cut' streaming version, a hodge podge of tracks from the previous releases with some further edits, most likely due to clearance issues.

Most of New Order's Factory albums differed for their US cassette and CD releases, and sometimes for the UK cassette releases too.
Movement's US release used different colours on the sleeve artwork (burgundy on white rather than dark blue on light blue)
PC&L had Blue Monday and The Beach added for the US cassette and CD releases.
Low Life is unusual as the UK cassette version was different to the LP and CD releases - it used the full length single version of The Perfect Kiss instead of the album edit, and also included the B-sides The Kiss Of Death and Perfect Pit. The US cassette release used the normal LP/CD version of the album.
Brotherhood had State Of The Nation added for the UK CD release, and the Canadian CD release also added the Shep Pettibone mix of Bizarre Love Triangle. Qwest didn't release the album on CD in the US for two years, and then they used the LP/cassette master without State Of The Nation.
Substance is different for each of the formats it was released on. The double LP only collects the A-sides of the singles (but omits Murder). The double cassette includes Murder and all the B-sides (minus Perfect Pit, which wasn't included on any version). The double CD was limited by running time of a disc, and so the A-sides disc doesn't include Murder and The Perfect Kiss is edited by 45 seconds. The B-side disc includes Murder but omits Shellcock and True Dub. Basically the cassette version was the one to go for if you wanted everything, but not in the US where it was cut down to a single cassette with just the A-sides (minus Murder again - it was basically the LP master used for the cassette release). All versions also replaced the original 12" versions of Temptation and Confusion with 1987 re-recordings as Bernard didn't like his vocals on the originals (this was after John Robie had taught him about singing in his natural key).
All this madness ended with Technique, which was the same everywhere.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Egyptian Feast on May 18, 2021, 09:08:37 AM
Most of AC/DC's earliest albums exist in different formats inside and outside Australia with different tracks and covers, and their first two albums were combined to create their international 'first' album, leaving about an album's worth of tracks not released outside Australia.

I prefer the international version of High Voltage, but dropping 'Jailbreak' from Dirty Deeds... was scandalous. I'd love an Aussie pressing just for that (and the weird cover).

Bobby Conn's first album is completely different on vinyl than it is on CD.

I didn't know about this. Is it an improvement?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 18, 2021, 09:11:59 AM
The White Room OST, scrapped in 1989
Reworked into The White Room (UK & Europe) in 1991
Edited for the  US release for sample clearance, and also to replace LTTT and Justified & Ancient with the later single versions
2021 'Directors Cut' streaming version, a hodge podge of tracks from the previous releases with some further edits, most likely due to clearance issues.


And wasn't 1987: What The Fuck Is Going On? edited to remove all the samples with instructions on how to add them in yourself?


Then there is Chill Out/Come Down Dawn which is different versions of the same album

Then there is Space, which is all the Cauty bits from his collaboration with Alex Patterson, the latter bits becoming the first Orb album, though that is a bit different I suppose. I would love to hear what the original tracks with both their input were like

Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: buzby on May 18, 2021, 09:25:04 AM
And wasn't 1987: What The Fuck Is Going On? edited to remove all the samples with instructions on how to add them in yourself?
1987 - The Jams 45 Edits was released as a 12" single (JAMS 25T) rather than an album (1987 was JAMS LP1) as the edited out samples reduced the running time enough that it qualified as a single. Also they didn't want people paying album prices for a record that was silent for a large part of it's runtime.
Quote
Then there is Chill Out/Come Down Dawn which is different versions of the same album
Like the White Room Director's Cut, there's that much that's been changed or replaced between Chill Out & Come Down Dawn that I don't really consider them to be different versions of the same album. They are more like what Capitol used to do with the early Beatles stuff, compiling singles and album tracks together to make up their own albums for the US market.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 18, 2021, 09:41:27 AM
I see them as different versions of the same album, the latter being the former with all the uncleared samples removed. I know there is a bit more to the changes but I think ultimately it is all in the service of making the album releasable
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Darles Chickens on May 18, 2021, 10:52:48 AM
We talked about a couple of these on the Musical F*** my Hat (https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,65433.msg3447827.html#msg3447827) thread.

Seal's debut album was silently replaced by a different version, with no outwardly visible way to distinguish the two.  The replacement was replete with even more Trevor Horn beige production than the original, with reduced dynamic range, and a completely new MOR recording of the song "Wild" which did away with all the guitars and added that ubiquitous tinny 90s synth percussion.  In the other thread, buzby theorised that bad blood between Horn and the session guitarist on that album might have led to them re-recording it, which is a nice idea.  Here (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/seal-1991-vs-seal-1991-premix.682935/)'s the folks from the Steve Hoffman forums talking about it.

And, as per that other thread, Jacko's Bad was another album which was updated without ceremony, removing all the binaural effects (basically a big flounce because the owner of the tech wouldn't sell it to Jackson), including the removal of the creepy "I just wanna lay next to you for a while" intro from I Just Can't Stop Loving You.

In each case I prefer the original versions of the albums, but they're pretty hard to find these days.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: studpuppet on May 18, 2021, 10:55:54 AM
Most of New Order's Factory albums differed for their US cassette and CD releases, and sometimes for the UK cassette releases too.

I bought Transformer on cassette, and then when I was rich enough to own a CD player I bought it again, and realised they completely changed the running order for the cassette to even out the length of the sides and minimise the amount of tape used.

Substance is different for each of the formats it was released on. The double LP only collects the A-sides of the singles (but omits Murder). The double cassette includes Murder and all the B-sides (minus Perfect Pit, which wasn't included on any version). The double CD was limited by running time of a disc, and so the A-sides disc doesn't include Murder and The Perfect Kiss is edited by 45 seconds. The B-side disc includes Murder but omits Shellcock and True Dub. Basically the cassette version was the one to go for if you wanted everything, but not in the US where it was cut down to a single cassette with just the A-sides (minus Murder again - it was basically the LP master used for the cassette release). All versions also replaced the original 12" versions of Temptation and Confusion with 1987 re-recordings as Bernard didn't like his vocals on the originals (this was after John Robie had taught him about singing in his natural key).

And this explains why I seem to own this in all three formats (and has nothing to do with my adolescent FAC(T) obsession).
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: SpiderChrist on May 18, 2021, 10:58:22 AM
Low Life is unusual as the UK cassette version was different to the LP and CD releases - it used the full length single version of The Perfect Kiss instead of the album edit, and also included the B-sides The Kiss Of Death and Perfect Pit. The US cassette release used the normal LP/CD version of the album.

This prompted me to see if I still had this on cassette (and I do). My favourite New Order album. A quick check on Discogs tells me it's worth about £70 too (not that I have any plans to sell it).
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: buzby on May 18, 2021, 11:41:15 AM
And this explains why I seem to own this in all three formats (and has nothing to do with my adolescent FAC(T) obsession).
And in all that I missed out the most notorious difference between the versions of Substance - the B-sides to the Factory Benelux 12" release of Everything's Gone Green. On the B-side label of the 12" single the titles of Mesh (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ogB2_pHkc) and Cries And Whispers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgB0Nt8RBcc) are the correct way round, but on the rear of the sleeve they were transposed. When Substance was being put together they used the sleeve as the title reference, so on the cassette inlay (which is the only version to feature both tracks) the mistake was continued (Disc 2 of the CD release only got Cries And Whispers, incorrectly titled as Mesh).

It it wasn't until the 2002 release of the Retro box set that Cries And Whispers was released under it's correct title, and for the bonus disc of the 2008 Collector's Edition of Movement for Mesh to get it's correct title.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Wayman C. McCreery on May 18, 2021, 11:47:22 AM
The Manics have form for this for all sorts of different reasons. The US version of Generation Terrorists didn't include five (!) of the tracks on the UK release, but they also swapped some of the big hitters for remixes that sounded a bit more Guns N' Roses and featured a session musician on drums (rather than the drum machine Sean Moore used on the original). Here's the remixed You Love Us, which sounds really different if you're familiar with the original: https://youtu.be/-Ae_j2evUEY

The whole of The Holy Bible was remixed for the USA too, but the changes are a bit more subtle than the Generation Terrorists remixes. Here's the mix of Faster, which sounds a little less aggressive than the original: https://youtu.be/Na0ZcY28XkQ

I suppose that sort of thing doesn't happen any more now that everything's available at the same time to everyone online. Though you still see bonus tracks tagged on the end of Japanese releases.

But the weirdest thing they've done is change the tracklists on the re-released versions of This Is My Truth, Tell Me Yours and Send Away The Tigers. On This Is My Truth... they removed Nobody Loved You and swapped it for b-side Prologue To History, and on Send Away The Tigers they removed Underdogs and added Welcome To The Dead Zone. Adding a bonus track or two at the end is fine. Whacking a hit non-album single in the middle is acceptable. But swapping some songs completely really changes the trajectory of an album and just seems like a really odd thing to do.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: BJBMK2 on May 18, 2021, 12:34:04 PM
The recent re-issue of Fin De Siècle by The Divine Comedy contains new samples, the Jerry Springer-esque intro from Generation Sex is gone, replaced by a sample of an Italian man talking which I'm sure is from some very well revered Italian neo-realist film that I can't look up at the moment.

Same thing with The Certainty Of Chance. The ending with Neil reading a speech from La Dolce Vita, has now been replaced with the actual clip from said film. I imagine clearance issues may have prevented them from being included on the original 1998 pressing? Neil alludes to this in the sleeve notes, stating that the samples were his original intention for the songs.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: SteveDave on May 18, 2021, 02:39:51 PM
There is an extra 30 second track at the end of the vinyl version of REMs Reckoning that isn't on any other format (though it might have been reinstated on the re-issues)

"Foggy Notion" on the vinyl version of "VU" has a 4 note guitar thing before the song starts that's not on the CD or any subsequent issue of the song (I think...).
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 18, 2021, 02:55:22 PM
Frank Zappa spent his last days replacing the bass and drums on his 60s albums and making other 'improvements' to his old records.

I can't remember if I mentioned my theory that this was an attempt to gib them of their preforming royalties, and that the tapes had all gone funny was a bare face lie.


Mind you, I don't know what the bass player would do with all that money waiting for him when he got out at the age of 132 or whatever it was.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: SteveDave on May 18, 2021, 03:08:00 PM
Frank Zappa spent his last days replacing the bass and drums on his 60s albums and making other 'improvements' to his old records.

I can't remember if I mentioned my theory that this was an attempt to gib them of their preforming royalties, and that the tapes had all gone funny was a bare face lie.


Mind you, I don't know what the bass player would do with all that money waiting for him when he got out at the age of 132 or whatever it was.

SteveDave likes this post
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: kngen on May 18, 2021, 03:27:09 PM
The 8-track version of Never Mind the Bollocks has a slightly different mix (louder guitars) and is sped up (by a semitone, apparently). Could be just a mastering thing, but it sounds fucking great, nonetheless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP6LrjpoI6Q&t=239s
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 18, 2021, 04:08:48 PM
I have the original Mo Wax edition of the first Dr Octagon (https://www.discogs.com/Dr-Octagon-Dr-Octagon/release/1232492) album and was confused when a mate played me the more common later version. Not only was it rejigged and had a live track added ('1977') but it was missing two of my favourite tracks, 'On Production' (https://youtu.be/lzAl_5m5DPo) and 'Biology 101' (https://youtu.be/tS64Mz-Z_7I). I'm sure there was a reason these were dropped and not the nasty skit 'A Trip To The Gynecologyst', but it wouldn't be good enough to satisfy me.

Woah. The version I have ends on "halfsharkalligatorhalfman" and "Elective Surgery", then has "Waiting List", "1977" and "Blue Flowers Remix" as bonus tracks.

This is cool. Never even heard "Biology 101" before! Great track.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: PaulTMA on May 18, 2021, 04:12:01 PM
Shania Twain's Up! album from 2002 was released in pop, country and Bollywood versions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up!_(album) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up!_(album))
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: drummersaredeaf on May 18, 2021, 04:25:24 PM
Frank Zappa spent his last days replacing the bass and drums on his 60s albums and making other 'improvements' to his old records.

I can't remember if I mentioned my theory that this was an attempt to gib them of their preforming royalties, and that the tapes had all gone funny was a bare face lie.


Mind you, I don't know what the bass player would do with all that money waiting for him when he got out at the age of 132 or whatever it was.

Ozzy did the same with drums and bass from his early solo records too.

SHARON! presumably decided to do it after the original musos sued for royalties. Think it's Diary of a Madman and Blizzard of Oz. Both with a new rhythm section of Bordin and Trujilo.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: niat on May 18, 2021, 04:32:56 PM
N.E.R.D.'s debut album In Search Of... was released in an electronic version in Europe, then re-recorded as a "rock" version for release in the US.

I think it's only the latter that's available on Spotify etc. I way prefer the original version.

Living Colour released some versions of Stain with completely different guitar solos on three tracks: Leave It Alone, Ignorance is Bliss and Bi. 25,000 copies of the alternative version were pressed, and it seems to have been randomly distributed so some people got the normal version and others got the alternative. I only found out about this a couple of years ago and hearing the alternative versions is very strange when you know the originals well.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Egyptian Feast on May 18, 2021, 05:42:35 PM
N.E.R.D.'s debut album In Search Of... was released in an electronic version in Europe, then re-recorded as a "rock" version for release in the US.

I think it's only the latter that's available on Spotify etc. I way prefer the original version.

Both versions were included in a recent reissue. I way prefer the original version too. They were right to drop the skits and I thought some of the weaker tracks were slightly improved, but they ruined all my favourite tracks, especially 'Stay Together' and 'Bobby James'.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: purlieu on May 18, 2021, 07:45:55 PM
But the weirdest thing they've done is change the tracklists on the re-released versions of This Is My Truth, Tell Me Yours and Send Away The Tigers. On This Is My Truth... they removed Nobody Loved You and swapped it for b-side Prologue To History, and on Send Away The Tigers they removed Underdogs and added Welcome To The Dead Zone. Adding a bonus track or two at the end is fine. Whacking a hit non-album single in the middle is acceptable. But swapping some songs completely really changes the trajectory of an album and just seems like a really odd thing to do.
Underdogs was largely down to nobody liking it, especially the really shit editing where you hear the start of a word before it's cut. Nobody Loved You, I think Nicky's uncomfortable with some of the lyrics, and they've always regretted Prologue to History being a b-side, what with it being one of their best songs. These replacements don't bother me too much, because they're on the deluxe editions only, they haven't replaced the original versions which are still easily available, physically and digitally. There's still the chance that when they do the Know Your Enemy deluxe edition (probably late this year), Nicky will have arranged it as two separate albums as originally planned.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: DJ Bob Hoskins on May 18, 2021, 07:58:05 PM
There is an extra 30 second track at the end of the vinyl version of REMs Reckoning that isn't on any other format (though it might have been reinstated on the re-issues)

I'm 99% sure it was present on the cassette as well as vinyl, but not on the (original) CD version.

I bought Transformer on cassette, and then when I was rich enough to own a CD player I bought it again, and realised they completely changed the running order for the cassette to even out the length of the sides and minimise the amount of tape used.

Ha, me too. My hat was fucked when I realised I'd been listening to it in the 'wrong' order all those years. I think I actually prefer the cassette running order, even though they really just switched the sides around and then swapped the final song on each side.

Not really on topic but for years I thought side B of Zooropa was actually side A, thanks to the way a buddy had mistakenly labelled a taped copy. It actually works better this way around, beginning with the static and soviet march of Daddy's Gonna Pay For Your Crashed Car, and closing with the triangle 'ding' from Stay (Faraway, So Close!). The title track kinda becomes the centrepiece of the album rather than the overlong introduction that it is.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: willbo on May 18, 2021, 08:04:38 PM
Ozzy Osbourne re-released his first two solo albums (the classic Randy Rhoads ones) with new bass/drum tracks done by his current band because the original bassist and drummer were wanting more credit for their large song-writing contributions.

if we're talking changed covers there's also this classic soul album which was changed to a plain shot of the singer for the 90s cd

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/Jean_Knight_Mr._Big_Stuff_album.jpg)
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: SteveDave on May 18, 2021, 09:36:30 PM
Apparently there's a Quad mix of "Pussy Cats" by Nilsson that has different ("better") vocals done during mixing. I would like to hear this.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: jobotic on May 18, 2021, 11:21:10 PM
Drum were sweetened with electronics and reverb. I think some of the bass was re-recorded too. The shitty electronic drum versions of "Waitin' For the Bus" and "La Grange" you sometimes hear on dadrock and supermarket radio are from this. Yuck.

Thanks (magnum too). I only have the early albums on vinyl that I bought over thirty years ago, but i do remember now listening to them on youtube and having to look for "original versions" as the first ones I found were fucking awful.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: sutin on May 19, 2021, 01:15:11 AM
I didn't know about this. Is it an improvement?

RE: Bobby Conn's first album. The only track that's the same on the CD and vinyl is Never Get Ahead, the rest is either different mixes, different recordings or different songs. The only thing the vinyl trumps the CD version on is that it contains Who's The Paul at regular speed.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: famethrowa on May 19, 2021, 03:52:03 AM

Brothers In Arms, I had the vinyl (or cassette?) and the songs are short versions, on the CD there's a big trumpet solo, and a long long rambling end to side 1. Or is it the other way around?


Frank Zappa spent his last days replacing the bass and drums on his 60s albums and making other 'improvements' to his old records.

I was fooled by this, I had In It For The Money on a 90s CD which I listened to for years and years. Then in the youtube era I decided to have a listen, and it was a whole new world... all the 80s deadness and compression was gone, and it sounded like a bunch of 60s freaks actually playing it together. Not sure which one is best now.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: buzby on May 19, 2021, 08:27:26 AM
Brothers In Arms, I had the vinyl (or cassette?) and the songs are short versions, on the CD there's a big trumpet solo, and a long long rambling end to side 1. Or is it the other way around?
The CD and cassette version is about 4:30 longer than the LP version, which had to be cut down due to running time limitations. All the edits were done on the tracks on Side A of the LP, with only Walk Of Life being the same length as on the CD and cassette version. The issue was finally rectified in 2006 when it was released as a double LP in the US, which took until 2014 to be released in Europe.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Ant Farm Keyboard on May 19, 2021, 11:17:46 AM
Bob Dylan’s Street-Legal was remixed something like twenty years ago. It was recorded in 1978 in a warehouse turned studio which had poor acoustics. The original version was muddy and lacked energy. The remix doesn’t make it great, but it’s an improvement. The first version is still available on the complete albums box set.
There are three or four different mixes of Blonde on Blonde in circulation. Stick with the mono or with the stereo mix from the remasters, which is much more balanced than previous versions.

The first Crosby, Stills and Nash album had an unlisted interlude with Crosby singing a few bars from a Robert Johnson blues. It was removed from the latest remaster because it was originally considered as public domain then they didn’t want to pay rights to his estate.

A few late fifties Sinatra albums were recorded simultaneously in mono and stereo by two different crews using different sets of mics and different control rooms. The stereo versions, which were originally regarded as an experiment, became standard for decades, but the mono version of Only the Lonely, which is superior to the stereo recording, has been lately more commonly available. The mono versions of Where Are You? and Come Fly with Me are harder to track, but they’re also superior to the stereo versions.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: purlieu on May 19, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Speaking of remixes, Mike Oldfield's Hergest Ridge was remixed for quadrophonic sound in 1978, for the next 31 years, a stereo mixdown of that version was the only version in print. Then he did a new (horrible) mix in 2009, with the original 1974 mix on the bonus disc, and the quad mix has been out of print since.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Pancake on May 19, 2021, 04:42:17 PM
I guess this usually happens when bands are rumbled for using unauthorised samples. I really like Wild Nothing's Gemini album and have only just learned that my favourite track on it - Chinatown - has been changed on later pressings, presumably to remove the Chantal Goya sample. Similarly, The Go! Team's debut is now different to when initially released (or had a different release somewhere down the line) due to uncleared samples being removed.

I used to have a promo of Spiritualized's LAGWAFIS which had a bit of an Elvis song playing through it and that was removed from the actual release.

Any other examples, especially for other reasons?

AH THANK GOD, I wondered what the fuck was going on with Chinatown, love that song, just wasn't the same after they messed around with it
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Pancake on May 19, 2021, 04:47:37 PM
Not quite the same thing but the original version of Jimmy James by the Beastie Boys used a Hendrix sample, they couldn't clear it or whatever so they used something else for the final album version and blow me if it didn't turn out to be superior!

Original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw5i7TPkYfI

This next one is the first song on their new album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NMb4CkoZys
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 19, 2021, 06:55:12 PM
The original "Jimmy James" sounds so corny after Pauls Boutique singles. They lucked out.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: non capisco on May 19, 2021, 07:09:03 PM
Not quite the same thing but the original version of Jimmy James by the Beastie Boys used a Hendrix sample, they couldn't clear it or whatever so they used something else for the final album version and blow me if it didn't turn out to be superior!

Original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw5i7TPkYfI

This next one is the first song on their new album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NMb4CkoZys

Ooh, you're not wrong, the released version is tons better. They still sneaked in a tiny bit of Hendrix at the end on that one as well.

Oh man I get such a Proustian rush off Check Your Head and Paul's Boutique. Those lads and Prince were such obsessions for me at various stages in my adolescence, the Beasties especially were a gateway to a lot of other amazing music as well. Yauch dying was one of the few times I've cried at a celebrity shuffling off.
 
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: McChesney Duntz on May 19, 2021, 08:00:22 PM
I bought Transformer on cassette, and then when I was rich enough to own a CD player I bought it again, and realised they completely changed the running order for the cassette to even out the length of the sides and minimise the amount of tape used.

Definitely a common issue, especially, it would seem, with RCA releases. I'll actually go so far as to say that the US cassette running order of Ziggy Stardust (which puts "Lady Stardust" after "Moonage Daydream" and shifts "Starman" to the top of side two) is the definitive version to my ears.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Egyptian Feast on May 19, 2021, 09:28:07 PM
Definitely a common issue, especially, it would seem, with RCA releases. I'll actually go so far as to say that the US cassette running order of Ziggy Stardust (which puts "Lady Stardust" after "Moonage Daydream" and shifts "Starman" to the top of side two) is the definitive version to my ears.

That must be the version I first heard. Got it out from the library at Brunel and Bowie finally clicked with me. Liked the odd song before that, but I wasn't that arsed entirely until I popped that in my walkman on my way to the shops. It was rewound to the start of side 2 and fuck. That explody bit before the chorus properly went off in my ears and that was it for me. Loved him from that second. When I got it on CD that bit was shit. From an explosion to a fizz, a wet fart. It's just not on. It doesn't sound so bad on that backwards hits comp, but it's never sounded as good as that tape did. I prefer that running order too. 'Lady Stardust' is a very good fourth song on an album.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: the science eel on May 19, 2021, 09:47:42 PM
The Fall's Perverted by Language is a different album than it used to be - some copies start with 4 tracks that were never on the original album and a few songs are, bizarrely, shortened to have Mark's spoken word rants editted out.

The best bit of 'Garden', too! ('this entails explosive devices being wired up under every window sill...'). I was so fucked off my CD version didn't have it. I'm not even sure the track is shorter without - the band just play on without any vocal.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Egyptian Feast on May 19, 2021, 09:52:20 PM
Oh man I get such a Proustian rush off Check Your Head and Paul's Boutique. Those lads and Prince were such obsessions for me at various stages in my adolescence, the Beasties especially were a gateway to a lot of other amazing music as well. Yauch dying was one of the few times I've cried at a celebrity shuffling off.

Same. When I heard a Sly and the Family Stone comp it blew my mind how many bits I recognised just from those albums. The one time I saw them live their main support act Jon Spencer Blues Explosion led me down a whole load of other rabbit holes - Royal Trux and the like. I owe so much to those two albums. And Ill Communication. Not so much the others, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: kngen on May 19, 2021, 10:00:52 PM
Bad Brains - Rock for Light - probably in my top 10 albums of all time - was remixed by original producer Ric Ocasek, really badly, with weird panned guitars and smothered in reverb, and they fucked with the track order for some reason, too, for its eventual long-overdue re-release. Thankfully, I have an original (although it's not fared well over the years) but whenever I wanted to listen to it at a mate's house (or nowadays on Spotify), it's the remixed abortion that I have to endure. Nightmare.

I recently found out that, before Ric Ocasek died, he went out of his way to make sure that his wife and mother of his children, the woman who discovered his dead body, got nothing from his estate. Prick Ocasek, that's what I call him. Yeah, I said it.[1]
 1. Still like The Cars, though.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: McChesney Duntz on May 19, 2021, 10:05:51 PM
The best bit of 'Garden', too! ('this entails explosive devices being wired up under every window sill...'). I was so fucked off my CD version didn't have it. I'm not even sure the track is shorter without - the band just play on without any vocal.

I wonder if those bits never made it onto the master tape - there are certainly plenty of times something was added in the midst of production that never got onto the tape proper and could therefore never be replicated (the live radio at the end of "I Am The Walrus," of course, and some of the effects at the end of the vinyl version of the Dukes of Stratosphear's "Mole From The Ministry"). But this is the Fall we're talking about here, whose sourcing for CD has often been highly dodgy in various ways, and the original of that particular bit is easy to find (it was part of his appearance on Greenwich Sound Radio), so it could conceivably have been reinserted if they wanted to. I don't know. Glad I never got that particular CD issue, then. My German Line import will serve me just fine...
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on May 19, 2021, 10:38:57 PM
Bad Brains - Rock for Light - probably in my top 10 albums of all time - was remixed by original producer Ric Ocasek, really badly, with weird panned guitars and smothered in reverb, and they fucked with the track order for some reason, too, for its eventual long-overdue re-release. Thankfully, I have an original (although it's not fared well over the years) but whenever I wanted to listen to it at a mate's house (or nowadays on Spotify), it's the remixed abortion that I have to endure. Nightmare.

Wasn't this record either sped up or slowed down for the CD version? Its pretty funny - there are times where HR sounds normal then suddenly it swoops up until the same Loony Toons pitch as the rest of the record.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Rizla on May 19, 2021, 11:21:40 PM
Check out these dunces -
Split Enz 1975 debut, Mental Notes was an Australia/NZ-only release.   
(https://img.discogs.com/utdCZjK1SYePPPzexbKcIXNQpmk=/fit-in/600x610/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12687688-1551419848-2570.jpeg.jpg)
Phil Manzanera invited the band to london to re-record the album, which they did with a different band line-up and track listing.
The album was released worldwide in 1976 with the same title but modified artwork accommodating the change in personnel and hairstyles,
(https://img.discogs.com/LGYi7-nMMmR1JclV6Amp72gaTwo=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-4422660-1534862824-3546.jpeg.jpg)
but with a completely different title and cover in the antipodes.
(https://img.discogs.com/j5VhyNpX45O0KreyGV61rWvGv94=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2631056-1294113884.jpeg.jpg)

They kept up the foolishness when they tried to give their 1980 album a different title for each territory in its aboriginal language
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Waiata.jpg)
but the record company told them to knock it off after they got as far as the australia and NZ versions
(https://img.discogs.com/FtQN6vukqHhC2wZk9kU6EwKCkrc=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-691787-1153137328.jpeg.jpg)
What a bunch of flamin' galahs.

Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: famethrowa on May 20, 2021, 02:51:52 AM
What about Back In The DHSS? I must have got hold of some kind of re-release, so the absolute first thing I heard from this amazing band was some plinky plonky Noddy theme tune Zappa nonsense.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Noodle Lizard on May 20, 2021, 05:45:45 AM
Not that I think we have many fans here (past or present), but a few years ago Cradle of Filth released the long-known-about "first attempt" at Dusk ... And Her Embrace, widely-considered one of their best albums. On account of some convoluted label disputes (as well as half the band leaving), it was never released in its original form and was instead re-recorded entirely with the new members, with a few significant differences.

The official version is far superior overall - significantly better production, instrumentation and the changing of some of the more embarrassing lyrics. There are some bits from the original, though, that I wish they'd kept. Some of the timing and vocal deliveries fit a lot better - not to the point where I think entire versions of the songs win out, but to the point where a clever melding of the two might create an "Ultimate Version". Also, omitting Nocturnal Supremacy entirely is a ghastly decision as it's one of the best songs from that era, but it did turn up as a bonus track in various forms throughout the years.

Anyway, that's the one I'm most familiar with.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: markburgle on May 20, 2021, 09:02:26 AM
First Clash album US version has 4 songs removed and replaced with 5 single A/B sides.

Bowie's Young Americans was originally called The Gouster, and didn't have Win, Across the Universe and a couple others
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 20, 2021, 09:16:30 AM
And The Man Who Sold The World was called The Metrobolist but I don't think the content was different. Diamond Dogs started out as bits of an abandoned 1984 musical, though all that is a different topic - working versions of albums
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 20, 2021, 09:30:17 AM
Wasn't the 'The Metrobolist' more of a marketing thing for the last re-issue?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: NoSleep on May 20, 2021, 09:37:28 AM
Raw Power by Iggy & The Stooges remixed by Iggy several years back and is probably the loudest CD ever made. I prefer the remix in some respects.

The Doors remixed their entire catalogue and released them on the 40th anniversary of the band. I like the original mixes much better than these.

Pere Ubu's New Picnic Time features a track entitled Jehovah's Kingdom Come; all subsequent releases of the album after the initial release feature a version of the song with the word "Jehovah" excised. Still a great album.

John Fahey (mentioned earlier in the thread for one of his albums) re-recorded several of his albums. The improved technical quality and performances are appreciated, but there's something about the warts and all original releases that have to be heard (I think being ahead of their time adds some important fire).

Are You Experienced by Hendrix has a different track order in the US version compared to the UK version. Several albums get rejigged in this way on the way to the US, for example Ian Dury's New Boots And Panties had the single "Sex and Drugs And Rock and Roll" added for its release over there; and Robert Wyatt's compilation of his Rough Trade singles, Nothing Can Stop Us, had "Shipbuilding" added to it.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 20, 2021, 09:38:56 AM
Wasn't the 'The Metrobolist' more of a marketing thing for the last re-issue?

No I think it was the original title but was changed at the last minute, along with the artwork, because it was fucking stupid
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 20, 2021, 09:46:11 AM

Pere Ubu's New Picnic Time features a track entitled Jehovah's Kingdom Come; all subsequent releases of the album after the initial release feature a version of the song with the word "Jehovah" excised. Still a great album.


That reminds me of My Life in the Bush of Ghosts by Eno & Byrne that had Qu'Ran removed after initial pressings due to religious objections
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: NoSleep on May 20, 2021, 09:54:23 AM
I think the only person who objected to the original in Pere Ubu's case was David Thomas.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Pancake on May 20, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
Ooh, you're not wrong, the released version is tons better. They still sneaked in a tiny bit of Hendrix at the end on that one as well.

Oh man I get such a Proustian rush off Check Your Head and Paul's Boutique. Those lads and Prince were such obsessions for me at various stages in my adolescence, the Beasties especially were a gateway to a lot of other amazing music as well. Yauch dying was one of the few times I've cried at a celebrity shuffling off.

Aye, I'm not usually prone to this sort of sentimentality but if I'm ever in NYC I'm taking a pilgrimage to the park they named after him
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: famethrowa on May 20, 2021, 11:43:43 AM
.

Pere Ubu's New Picnic Time features a track entitled Jehovah's Kingdom Come; all subsequent releases of the album after the initial release feature a version of the song with the word "Jehovah" excised. Still a great album.


I don't think it ought to be blasphemy, just saying Jehovah?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: sevendaughters on May 20, 2021, 12:46:44 PM
was going to say N*E*R*D but I was reminded that Don Cab side project Thee Speaking Canaries did a high and low fidelity version of their album Songs for the Terrestrially Challenged. One was CD and one was cassette, recorded separately but back to back. but they're both on bandcamp now and you can hear the difference. prefer the hi-fi version but think the actual performance is better rather than the recording.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 20, 2021, 12:49:45 PM
Aren't there different versions of Rilo Kiley's Execution of All Things?

Who was the modern band that re-recorded their debut album and gave it a new parenthetical addendum?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: sevendaughters on May 20, 2021, 12:54:32 PM
does No Protection count? also what about that boring piano version of that boring record St Vincent did?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: phantom_power on May 20, 2021, 01:11:55 PM
No Protection is an album in its own right, just made up of remixes of Protection. A bit like Blissed Out by The Beloved or In Dub by Renegade Soundwave, or countless other remix albums
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: NoSleep on May 20, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
I don't think it ought to be blasphemy, just saying Jehovah?

Back in the day people were afraid to speak the word, coming up with the word "Tetragrammaton" (the four letter name) to say in its stead. Not sure if any of that has anything to do with David Thomas' editing of the song.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: scarecrow on May 20, 2021, 02:04:52 PM
When was that changed?

Am I right in saying that David Thomas was a Jehova's Witness at the time, but isn't anymore?
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: DukeDeMondo on May 20, 2021, 11:03:19 PM
Two albums leapt into my mind when I first saw the thread title. I don’t think either of them have been mentioned yet.

The first is Life Of Pablo by Kanye West, which appeared on Tidal in the wee hours of February 14th 2016 (if memory serves) only to disappear again a couple hours later. When it came back it was slightly different, and between then and the release of the “final” version four months later, it underwent any number of alterations, some more significant than others. By June 14th, “Wolves” had been thoroughly “fixed,” a few other things had been remixed or reshuffled or slipped in under the skin, some things that had originally served as preludes or codas to longer pieces now stood alone, and the album ended with “Saint Pablo (https://youtu.be/w9rzz4pDFwA),” a brilliant track that debuted well after Life Of Pablo, and as a consequence it seems to occupy a slightly different space to everything else, seems to be situated at a certain height, far enough removed to be able to comment not only on the stuff that precedes it on Life Of Pablo, but also, in strange harmony with the deceptively slight “I Love Kanye,” on its position within the wider context of Kanye’s discography, referencing College Dropout here, recalling Yeezus or even MBDTF over there.  It brought to an exhilarating close the prolonged, very public bit of morphing and malfunctioning and mutating that went on before Life Of Pablo found its ultimate form – creative indecision and fried intuition rendered as visible and thrilling and tangibly transformative as the datamoshing spectacularised in the video for “Welcome To Heartbreak” from a few albums before.

The other album that comes to mind is Don’t Stand Me Down by Dexy’s Midnight Runners. Whilst there is a wee bit of revisionism at work in the idea that DSMD was met with blanket hostility from the off – it wasn’t ripped titless by everyone, the Wikipedia page cites a contemporaneous Melody Maker article in which Colin Irwin calls it “the most challenging, absorbing, moving, uplifting and ultimately triumphant album of the year” and there were others who said similar things or similar enough – it is nonetheless true that it didn’t do very well commercially, not that it was ever really expected to, and that, whilst it did have its champions, the wider narrative did point towards a pretentious, arse-headed, senseless, tuneless, boring hodgepodge of fuck nothing. It was only in the wake of the 1997 reissue on Creation Records, which incorporated a couple extra tracks, included extensive liner notes from Kevin Rowland, credited the writers of Warren Zevon’s “Werewolves Of London” for the part they played in “One Of Those Things,” listed “Knowledge of Beauty” under its original title of “My National Pride” and “Listen To This” as “I Love You (Listen To This),” and had a different image on the cover (one that rather pointedly excluded Helen O’Hara) that a widespread revaluation got under way, by the end of which everyone had seemingly come to the conclusion that Don’t Stand Me Down wasn’t just the best Dexy’s Midnight Runners album (I don’t believe it’s the best Dexy’s Midnight Runners album), but one of the very best albums of the 1980s (I do believe it’s one of the very best albums of the 1980s).

The most significant thing about the 1997 version, for me, is that it includes “Reminisce (Part One),” because its inclusion marks an explicit return to Brendan Behan. I feel like Behan functioned throughout the ...Soul Rebels era as a sort of spirit guide. Sort of Jaga in a balaclava. Sean Campbell, in his brilliant book on Second Generation Irish musicians in England, which I only got round to reading very recently, talks about how Behan “served as a key icon of Irish affinity in Dexy’s oeuvre,” and I think that’s entirely true. Copies of Behan’s Borstal Boy are on evidence in early promotional materials, he’s one of the Irish intellectuals whose names are chanted in the chorus of “Dance Stance” – and chanted again in the superior, fiercer, re-titled version that opens …Soul Rebels, where it’s prefaced by the sound of Johnny Rotten, another Irish intellectual, ripping through a burst of radio static – and he’s there in the unambiguous declaration of support for the “Irish Republican Army” that appeared in tour programs from around that time.

Come the second record, which marks a retreat from that gritted-knuckled confrontational sort of Irishness, even though it is far more “Irish” in its sound than is the debut, Behan seems to have been replaced by another figure of modern Irish mythology, and that figure, to my mind, is Van Morrison, someone who largely represented a far less troublesome (pun maybe halfways intended), airier, more benign sort of Irishness, and whose influence is felt profoundly throughout. He’s there in the language used, he’s there in the very notion of “Celtic Soul,” he’s there in the appeals to authenticity (an authenticity paradoxically twinned with a turn towards excess theatricality), he’s there in the nascent mewling of the paranoia that would eventually swallow all but the heel of Rowland’s left foot, he’s there in the brief monologues and dialogues that would, again, come to dominate Rowland’s output in time, and he’s there in the stirring of a very specific sort of nostalgia fringed by a very vague sort of Irishness that it never properly fixes upon. Most obviously he’s there in the cover of “Jackie Wilson Said.”

Don’t Stand Me Down is the most overtly “topical” of the three albums, it’s by far the most explicitly “Irish” thematically, but “Reminisce (Part One),” which is all about Kevin wandering Dublin in the summer of 1980 “searching for the spirit of Brendan Behan” is absent from the original version, even though “Reminisce (Part Two)” is not. I think it might have something to do with the fact that, between Too-Rye-Ay and Don’t Stand Me Down, Behan had pretty much been claimed by The Pogues, whose debut album included both a version of Behan’s “The Auld Triangle” and Shane MacGowan’s own “Streams of Whiskey,” which imagines a paralytic dreamtime romp with a Behan envisioned as a fevered manifestation of some sort of Banjaxed Old Blarneyed Beyond. Maybe the famously abstemious Kevin Rowland, who hated The Pogues for reinforcing - so he believed - the derogatory and demeaning notion of the Plastered Paddy that infested the British imagination and that a song like “Dance Stance” was supposed to have stomped to nothing but feathers, felt Behan was tainted by association. I dunno.   

Whatever the reason, the song wasn’t included on the original album, was added to the “Second Edition” in 1997, then removed again come the third iteration of the thing, 2002’s “Director’s Cut.” This third run at the record largely undoes the Creation version – he was right the first thhhhhhyyyyyymmmmme after all, mostly –  removing the two tracks that were added to that release and revising the cover yet again (Helen’s back where she belongs). What it adds is the fucking brilliant “Kevin Rowland’s 13th Time (https://youtu.be/Fpy7i2dvL4o),” which now opens the album, and so doing alters the countenance of the whole enterprise in some strange way (“I thought a little joke might be a good idea, just to sort of, I dunno, kick off the proceedings as it were… you ever hear the one about the, you know, the middle class idiots who sort of spend all their time analysing their own emotions and writing bullshit poetry, you know, that we’re supposed to read? I mean as if we’re fucking interested? You like that one, yeah? It’s a true story, that one.”) even though the rest unfolds exactly as it did in 1985. The only hangovers from the Creation version are the updated writing credits on “One Of Those Things,” the liner notes (now bolstered by further meditations from Rowland, that we’re supposed to read, I mean as if we’re fucking interested), and the changes to the titles of what had been “Listen To This” and “Knowledge of Beauty” once upon a Kenilworth Road riot.

I’ve heard and read various things that Kevin Rowland has said over the years about why “My National Pride” wasn’t called “My National Pride” on the original release. It was called “My National Pride” the whole way through the album’s production, he says. It was only at the very last minute, when the artwork was being finalised, that his nerves took to the baiters and he opted to call it something less charged instead. I’ve never been entirely sure what it was that ripped the nerves from beneath him. What he was scared of? Could be one of any number of things, I suppose. Or any number of any number of things.  The blistering anti-Irish sentiment running rampant at the time might have influenced his decision some, but it was nothing new, that, even if it was running thicker and deeper at that time than had been the case before. Still, he wasn’t racing around the pressing plants bellowing new words into every copy of the album as it fell from the guts of non-being, the lyrics were still about everything they’d been about back when that song still had the title that it used to have, and not just that song, every fucking song. Still it was all “Bel-FAHHST, Bel-FAHHHST,” still his “national pride” was a “personal pride,” still he stood insisting till the end “here is a prohhtest a prohhtest TEST-TIH!”
Maybe it was the unsavoury ideological weight that any appeal to Nationalism at that time, or any time, must shoulder. Or maybe it was the thought that this expression of “National Pride” might provide further ammunition for the swiftly-swelling numbers of Rowland-Refusers who found his “Irishness” inherently fucking ludicrous, something that probably wasn’t helped by the dungarees and the straw and the bare footed braying at the Thatcher from the thatching. Maybe he thought it would scan as the hollow affectations of a clueless Plastic.
 
But then how to explain the video (https://youtu.be/KntqWGy7mG8)? Unless those are the very things that do explain the video.
 
Who the fuck knows? In any case, despite the fact that the original version is probably the one that’s most frequently heard today, if only because it’s the only version on Spotify, the “Director’s Cut” is probably the definitive take, partly because of what it sounds like, partly because of what it feels like, and partly because of what it reads like. Rowland’s notes, for both the Second Edition and the Director’s Cut, were the rare notes worth reading, and they allowed for the thing to be understood in ways that it maybe hadn’t been understood before, and maybe wouldn't have been otherwise. Although, well, if it takes all that, like.

And it doesn’t end there. Other versions are to be found, they're various, yeah various, strolling about the Old Roads, squinting at the bracken. There exists on YouTube a version of the album called Don’t Stand Me Down Revisited (https://youtu.be/lPkGBn7Jp_w), for example, produced by someone calling themselves Friendly Ghost. I wouldn’t call it a “fan edit,” as such, for the person who made it admits in the description that, whilst they respect the record immensely, they don’t really like it very much, and they don’t really agree with what is now the critical consensus. What they’ve decided to do is to create an alternate version that feels as immediate and infectious and disciplined as Too-Rye-Ay (not that the original album was undisciplined or anything near, but it did feel undisciplined at times). Like the “Director’s Cut,” it opens with “Kevin Rowland’s 13th Time,” but then unlike the “Director’s Cut” it progresses at a ferocious pelt, performing radical surgeries upon the likes of "The Occasional Flicker" and "This Is What She’s Like" (the latter cut from twelve minutes and thirteen seconds to little over three) and expanding to pull “Reminisce (Part One)” and even “Because Of You” in out from out thonner. It falls apart in the middle, “Reminisce (Part One)” fades out a few seconds too soon for no discernible reason, one of a succession of arsed-up landings, and “Because of You” doesn’t work in this context at all, but for a lot of the rest of the time it’s actually pretty fucking revelatory. Virtually every other track starts with a thunderous Kev-Clap that makes everything feel like fucking “Like A Rolling Stone” for a second, and it is undeniably the case that, when the hooks are foregrounded so forcefully, when the more meandering dilly-dallying (or the more patience-testing fucking about, the less charitable might say) is trimmed to next to nothing the spoken word bits that count really do count, and the stuff that always sounded like it would make for a brilliant fucking three minute pop song now has made for a brilliant fucking three minute pop song. It’s one of the more delightful fan edits of anything I’ve ever come across.

Give it a go if you like, for in the morning it might be nothing but the rice and the rumours of rice.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: non capisco on May 20, 2021, 11:11:44 PM
^ Great post, Duke. And hello!
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: jenna appleseed on May 20, 2021, 11:17:14 PM
^ bravo @ DukeDeMondo
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 20, 2021, 11:24:20 PM
Agree, really great post, thanks. If I wasn't about to go to sleep, I'd be playing the records now.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: SpiderChrist on May 21, 2021, 06:01:09 AM
Cracking post, Duke. Was unaware of the 1997 version (I’ve got the original vinyl and the Director’s Cut CD) so will be hunting that down.

FWIW, Don’t Stand Me Down might not be the best Dexys album, but it is my favourite Dexys album.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: DukeDeMondo on May 21, 2021, 10:16:48 AM
Ah Jesus, thank you very much, folks, that was so lovely of you all to say. Thank you. If you're a fan of the album, or even if you're not - perhaps especially if you're not - it'd be interested to know how that "Revisited" number on YouTube plays out for you. I've downloaded the audio for I think when it works it really does fucking rattle along tremendously, and the stuff that it buggers up - rendering certain bits nonsensical by cutting the stuff leading up to them, fading out too soon after the "Ken Livingstone is a folk hero" on "Reminisce (Part One)," including "Because Of You," and so on - is easy enough to fix if you have even the most rudimentary grasp of Audacity and if you have the original tracks about you. Which on YouTube you do. It makes for a thumping old shower-time shoutalong, if you feel like a version of the album that you can shout along to in the shower is something you deserve to have access to.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 21, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Yeah, that post's not as good.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: DukeDeMondo on May 21, 2021, 05:22:22 PM
Yeah, that post's not as good.

Now, you'll be eating your words come the reissue, believe you me.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: popcorn on May 23, 2021, 12:39:15 AM
Muse (I love old Muse) have announced a new version of Origin of Symmetry for the 20th anniversary. Not so much a remaster as a big remix/edit job by Rich Costey. They've released the new version of Citizen Erased (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KScEW5a_KGY) and it sounds weird. Much less spacey and psychedelic.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Art Bear on May 23, 2021, 08:18:33 AM
Lawrence has removed a lot of the Robin Guthrie-ness and one of the instrumental tracks from the most recent reissue of Felt's "Ignite The Seven Cannons". I think he's fiddled about with some of the other reissues in the series too.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: holyzombiejesus on May 23, 2021, 09:11:38 AM
I'm a little irritated by the way Lawrence keeps fucking about with the Felt records.That crappy demo on PJR, the previous renaming and complete sleeve change on Let the Snakes... , the shitty new sleeves for all the most recent records and the crappy boxes for the CDs. The remaster of Ignite was great though.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Natnar on May 23, 2021, 10:44:40 AM
There's at least 4 different configurations of The Golden Age Of Wireless by Thomas Dolby. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Age_of_Wireless
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: greencalx on May 23, 2021, 10:53:51 AM
I suppose format constraints are the dullest reason for differences between releases of the same album. I remember being particularly irritated by the difference between the cassette and the CD release of The Cure's Standing on a Beach singles compilations. The former had a lot of (mostly great) B-sides, whilst the latter traded this for four (less good) songs that happened to have videos to go with them (thereby matching the track listing of the VHS Staring at the Sea compilation, although the latter also had "extra bits" between the songs which I guess wouldn't have worked on the CD without the tomfoolery to go with them). I'm guessing these differences arise mostly from different timing restrictions across the various formats.

Another one that is spectacularly annoying (or, at least, I think so, because the DVD encoding is a bit shit) is that the video release of Portishead's Roseland NYC live album has a much better version of Sour Times than the one that made it onto the CD.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: McChesney Duntz on May 28, 2021, 12:21:15 AM
Just got a vinyl copy of the Matador reissue of Gang of Four's Entertainment!, only to find they'd sliced off the count-in and the guitar intro to "I Found That Essence Rare." Thanks, jerks - now I've gotta go hunting for a copy of the original Warner Btothers release (which probably jumps out of the speakers more than this does as well, if my newly-procured original Solid Gold vinyl is anything to go by).
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: NoSleep on May 28, 2021, 06:45:50 AM
Material recorded numerous singles and EPs in their early days (post Daevid Allen, pre Herbie Hancock), which were later compiled into various collection albums (Secret Life, Temporary Music, Bill Laswell & Material, Reacted). There's a track called Reduction on which sometimes turns up with a version that doesn't have the radio preacher playing over the beat, apart from a snatch from the fade out of the original mix, plus they added tons of unnecessary reverb to the mix.

Original version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhGphPRRSbE

Later version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaXhec4Ze0c

Early on there was even a version that was sped up a bit (from Temporary Music): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j17ZkQd8yfo

(There's possibly differences with the other tracks, but that one stuck out to me)
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: idunnosomename on May 28, 2021, 01:58:39 PM
There was that awful trend in the 00s for rerecording tracks when remixing. It was bad enough when Dave Mustaine did it for early Megadeth, but deplorable when Sharon got Ozzy's current band to record the drum and bass tracks of his early solo albums to avoid paying royalties to the original performers.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Beep Cleep Chimney on May 28, 2021, 11:01:51 PM
Having played the UK LP version earlier on, was reminded of the various different iterations of the 'Best of The Art of Noise' compilation album.

Original 1988 LP version (blue cover) just had the 7" versions.
Original 1988 CD version (blue cover) had the 12" versions.
Original 1988 cassette version (blue cover) had a mixture of 7" and 12" versions.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71WOuvs-24L._SL1073_.jpg)

1992 re-issue (pink cover) had a different tracklisting, removing some of the earlier ZTT-era tracks and replacing them with tracks from the China Records era.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71qjvRicPIL._AC_SL1050_.jpg)

Plus there were a couple of international variations and, I think, digital versions with different artwork.

All over the place.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: kngen on May 30, 2021, 10:03:25 PM
Laibach's Kapital contains different versions and/or mixes of the same songs depending on whether you got the vinyl, CD or cassette (https://www.discogs.com/Laibach-Kapital/master/13678).

Obviously something to do with entartete kunst testing the boundaries of the fascist infrastructure, you'd have to imagine.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: Cursus on May 31, 2021, 10:26:14 AM
Sly and the Family Stone's Fresh:

Quote from: Wikipedia
In 1991, Sony Music, by then owner of the Epic catalog, accidentally issued a sequencing of Fresh on CD featuring alternate takes of every song except "In Time", which remained unchanged.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: SteveDave on June 09, 2021, 12:31:18 PM
Upon listening to last year's re-issue of the Moldy Peaches album, the word "retards" in "New York City's Like A Graveyard" had been covered up with feedback.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: lazyhour on June 09, 2021, 04:49:27 PM
Upon listening to last year's re-issue of the Moldy Peaches album, the word "retards" in "New York City's Like A Graveyard" had been covered up with feedback.

A step forward, well done them.
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: popcorn on June 09, 2021, 04:58:15 PM
Also the Gearslutz music production forum is now Gearspace. Thank fuck
Title: Re: Different versions of same album
Post by: lazyhour on June 09, 2021, 05:47:45 PM
Can we still be VerbWhores though?