Cook'd and Bomb'd

Forums => Oscillations => Topic started by: bgmnts on June 10, 2021, 08:03:28 PM

Title: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: bgmnts on June 10, 2021, 08:03:28 PM
Enjoyed this immensely.

https://kaptainkulk.medium.com/on-oasis-the-gallaghers-d4abcb889d59
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: holyzombiejesus on June 10, 2021, 08:32:34 PM
I saw that front page earlier. What a witless fucking wally of a man.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Kankurette on June 10, 2021, 08:35:29 PM
Thank fuck Neil Kulkarni exists. And I'm not at all surprised that a man who complained about a rapper at Glastonbury uses 'woke' as an insult.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Egyptian Feast on June 10, 2021, 08:53:08 PM
'Woke' and 'snowflake' in one sentence, marvellous stuff. His finest moment since he revealed he doesn't understand fiction.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: bgmnts on June 10, 2021, 08:59:52 PM
I just want to say I love it due to the absolute pure, honest hatred for some idiot cunt this guy poured out. It's beautiful.

Gallagher's are obviously knobheads though, we all know that, it's just ace to have it worded so viciously.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: TheGingerAlien on June 10, 2021, 09:03:52 PM
Props to fosters lager for absolutely nailing their demographic.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Kankurette on June 10, 2021, 09:25:03 PM
Quote from: Egyptian Feast on June 10, 2021, 08:53:08 PM
'Woke' and 'snowflake' in one sentence, marvellous stuff. His finest moment since he revealed he doesn't understand fiction.
Gallagher doesn't have an original thought in his head, I'm not surprised he doesn't understand fiction.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: BJBMK2 on June 10, 2021, 10:07:16 PM
Don't disagree with anything Kulkarni says, though I have to say, I prefer Taylor Parke's take on the whole thing, which goes into more detail on the culture war that Britpop inadvertently created.

https://thequietus.com/articles/15092-blur-parklife-anniversary-review (https://thequietus.com/articles/15092-blur-parklife-anniversary-review)
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: non capisco on June 10, 2021, 10:11:48 PM
Fucking righteous. I love the Incredible Kulk.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: the science eel on June 10, 2021, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: BJBMK2 on June 10, 2021, 10:07:16 PM
Don't disagree with anything Kulkarni says, though I have to say, I prefer Taylor Parke's take on the whole thing, which goes into more detail on the culture war that Britpop inadvertently created.

https://thequietus.com/articles/15092-blur-parklife-anniversary-review (https://thequietus.com/articles/15092-blur-parklife-anniversary-review)

(the irony being that in real life, Noel Gallagher is one of the sharpest and funniest bastards you ever could hope to meet)

Really, Taylor?
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Goldentony on June 10, 2021, 11:03:42 PM
its genuinely worthwhile putting oasis in a giant brick tank that fills up with concrete and shooting anyone on sight if they like them
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Egyptian Feast on June 10, 2021, 11:18:55 PM
Properly lolled at Sinead O'Connor's (https://twitter.com/MagdaDavitt77/status/1403087640963039232?s=19) take:

QuoteFuggin Noel Gallagher was the first unwoke turd to drag rock music into the being part of the establishment (thereby silencing rock lyrics) by putting his traitorous foot over the threshold of 10 Downing St when Tony Blair used Noel's vanity as something to make Blair look cool.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: The Culture Bunker on June 10, 2021, 11:26:07 PM
I'll have said this before, and I'll say again: I loathed Oasis at first for being the band of choice for the fuckwits at school who beat me up and called me a scrawny piece of gayboy shite because I liked to read and was useless at sport.

When I got older, started listening to (and playing) music, I disliked them more because those albums were incredibly boring. Noel Gallagher has always been a tedious bellend in my eyes, prone to talking absolute shite at the drop of a hat. I remember how it was made out back in the day that the band grew up in some kind of slum - imagine my surprise years later when I moved to Manchester and found out Burnage is a comfortable suburb.

This nonsense today is just another to add to list of arsegravy he's responsible for. He made English music worse and I hope for the day he's regarded by everyone for the regressive arsehole that he is.

'Slide Away' was OK, though.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: jobotic on June 10, 2021, 11:39:10 PM
QuoteIt enabled a middle class media to homogenise its ideas about what counted as working class art. This is what you do — and by extension, this is ALL you can do.

Take out the word "art" and this also applies to your Brendan O'Niells, Andrew Lawrences and Paulie Walnutses
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Captain Z on June 11, 2021, 12:05:03 AM
Sure as day follows night, this thread will fill up with posts savaging Oasis before caveating that, having said that, one of their tracks was OK. And by page 3, half of their discography will have been mentioned.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: DJ Bob Hoskins on June 11, 2021, 12:05:58 AM
I can't disagree with any of the individual examples of the Gallaghers' idiocy mentioned in that article, but I think it's a bit simplistic to lay such a large amount of blame for any toxic fallout from the whole '90s Britpop / Loaded era at Oasis's door. I'd argue that whole culture was mainly created and amplified by record company execs, TV producers, the press etc.

Oasis happened to be a band who made it very big very quickly, at a time when guitar music and 60s nostalgia were all the rage. More importantly they had huge mouths and thus gave great soundbites with which the tabloids could shift copies of their rags. But crucially, the public absolutely lapped this stuff up. I think it's fair to say that TFI Friday and Ocean Colour Scene would still have existed even if Oasis hadn't.

Full disclosure: I was a big Oasis fan back in the day (I was a 15 when they first hit the big time, and the perfect demographic to be swept up in that whole scene). But even back then, I never took anything they said seriously, and I don't think anyone else did, really.

I guess my point is: I tend to view Noel as more of a national court jester, or out-of-touch uncle, than a properly bigoted Morrissey or a spreader of dangerous bullshit like Ian Brown. And he can be very funny and quick-witted in interviews. So long as you understand that his worldview of musical history is '??? > Beatles > Sex Pistols > Smiths > Stone Roses > Knebworth > that rap music you have these days'.  He is not a man in whose words one should put much stock, nor pay much heed to unless you just fancy a laugh.

I can even ignore him dissing the likes of Beyonce, because I remember in the '90s when he used to moan about how electronic music is shit and bands who use sequencers and synths etc are not proper artists making proper music, and then a few months later he was at #1 in the charts, singing vocals on the Chemical Brothers' new single.

Anyway this 'snowflake' thing is not worth anyone getting worked up about. I mean, he disses his own family by saying he gets how William feels what with having a kid brother who shoots his mouth off,, and then says "Prince Harry is coming across like a typical f****** woke snowflake....Just don't be f****** dissing your family because there's no need for it."  And Noel has spent his entire career slagging off his brother in the press. Nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Spiteface on June 11, 2021, 12:14:14 AM
I just enjoy how the Gallaghers live rent-free in CaB's collective minds.

It is funny in general how quick people are to declare their disdain for Oasis, like they CANNOT FUCKING WAIT to tell you how much they've always hated Oasis, as if it's a badge of honor or makes them special.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: non capisco on June 11, 2021, 12:17:59 AM
It's because they're a right old load of shit, Spiteface.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Kankurette on June 11, 2021, 12:27:00 AM
Quote from: jobotic on June 10, 2021, 11:39:10 PM
Take out the word "art" and this also applies to your Brendan O'Niells, Andrew Lawrences and Paulie Walnutses
Are they even aware of the irony of claiming to be pro-working-class while categorising all (white) working-class people as ignorant bigots? You know, the thing they accuse the left of doing?

Spiteface, I actually like some of their stuff. Hell, I have their second album. I also think Noel is a tool. Setting Sun is the best thing he ever did.

ETA: there is a white northern working-class band who live rent free in my head but it's not Oasis, it's Space.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: DJ Bob Hoskins on June 11, 2021, 01:12:19 AM
I feel I should also state that I do not disown my Oasis fanboy past. I went to see them play 4 or 5 times during their heyday, and regardless of what you think of the music they generated a kind of energy I've seldom seen a bunch of lads stood still in Ben Sherman shirts capable of mustering. They had the audience, and what seemed like the world, in the palm of their hand. 

As far as the music goes, I'll happily defend just about everything they released between 1994-1996, plus a handful of later tunes (Gas Panic!, anyone?). But even if you think they're responsible for the most heinously turgid Dad Rock imaginable, I don't see how any of this is the band's fault:

Quote from: Mister Neil Kulkarni
Oasis' rise meant .. . . The cunts taking over. The 'proper' homophobic mildly racist lads. The rejection of 'poofiness' stylistically, the reassertion of the English Rock Defence League's tiny-minded ideas abou'real' 'proper' music, rock regressing into pure soulless pastiche. It meant a cowardly craven press surrendering any critical standpoint in fear of the supposed consensus. It meant national broadcasters and publishers boosting the lads, the coked-up and lairy. It meant a reassertion of racist & sexist music stereotypes & snobbery. It enabled a middle class media to homogenise its ideas about what counted as working class art. This is what you do — and by extension, this is ALL you can do.

ETA: I'd perhaps even make a counter-argument in that the Britpop era also introduced me to bands such as Pulp and the Divine Comedy and Manic Street Preachers and Belle & Sebastian, and the idea that not only was it OK to be skinny, slightly effeminate, oddly-dressed and overly-sensitive in a hitherto conformist macho society, but that it was actually cool to be that type of person. So if that's Oasis's fault too, then cheers, Oasis.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Goldentony on June 11, 2021, 01:38:33 AM
oasis should seriously be all physically beaten with fucking big sticks, from inception to end, bonehead to fucking ringo's son, the lot, big fuck off sticks, all of them crying, never seen crying from men like this man fuck me what have I fucking done, ive fucking become the monster
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Key on June 11, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
The thing that really puts me off about Oasis' music is that it's so stodgy. Listening to the plodding sludge makes me feel like I've just eaten six pies. Everythings always at this low-mid tempo, not fast enough to be exciting and not slow enough to be compelling  but the exact bmp of dullness. Then the guitars and Liam whine over the top like drunken bagpipes, a 5 mile trek through a bog. the Sex Pistols as heard through the ears of a dysthymic. God Noel where is the spirit? Where the invention you pentatonic cunt.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: phantom_power on June 11, 2021, 09:51:28 AM
His opinions are shit enough but the fact that he gave them to the fucking Sun shows what a mega-cunt he is
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: turnstyle on June 11, 2021, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: Captain Z on June 11, 2021, 12:05:03 AM
Sure as day follows night, this thread will fill up with posts savaging Oasis before caveating that, having said that, one of their tracks was OK. And by page 3, half of their discography will have been mentioned.

Columbia's good innit.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: druss on June 11, 2021, 10:05:38 AM
Noel is fine, just doesn't have a filter. Not a genuinely hateful person, just a bit of a loud mouth. By all accounts he's a good lad if you meet him in person, don't know anyone who has met him who has said otherwise.

Headshrinker is good.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on June 11, 2021, 10:24:33 AM
Noel did an interview on Worldwide FM of all places recently. I was only really half-listening to it (not really fussed about Oasis really), but it was interesting hearing him talk about some of the music that he listened to before forming Oasis. Both the Beegees and Acid House.

The acid house stuff was a bit funny as he talked about trying to add more dancey vibes to some of his work and had to put up with 'young mancs in fucking bucket hats asking me what I was playing at'.

https://www.mixcloud.com/worldwidefm/ralph-moore-with-noel-gallagher-26-05-21/

In googling for it, it seems several outlets are reporting on the fact he said he'd knife his brothers if he had to write songs with them:
https://australiannewsreview.com/freedomroo-noel-gallagher-admits-he-would-knife-brothers-if-he-had-to-write-a-song-in-the-studio-with-them/
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: phantom_power on June 11, 2021, 10:37:09 AM
Noel has always gone on about his varied musical influences, and even had FSOL in to do some sessions for an album that never happened, and yet the music he produces is always lumpen, turgid splat.

I am not sure how a "nice guy with no filter" would so consistently say such reactionary, culture war bullshit. He manages to get in "woke", "snowflake" and a dig at Meghan and Harry all in the space of about three sentences. I bet he disagrees with footballers taking the knee as well
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Neomod on June 11, 2021, 11:00:55 AM
Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on June 11, 2021, 10:24:33 AM
It was interesting hearing him talk about some of the music that he listened to before forming Oasis. Both the Beegees and Acid House.

A Burnage Bee Gees might be the most interesting thing he could do.

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on June 11, 2021, 10:24:33 AMHe said he'd knife his brothers if he had to write songs with them

Oh.

Lumpen band.


Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: OpenMikeKnight on June 11, 2021, 11:12:09 AM
I love Oasis and always have done. Headshrinker, Slide Away, Idler's Dream, Boy With The Blues, Rockin' Chair, all great stuff. A lot of us of a certain age who play guitar had Oasis as our entry to the instrument.

Noel can be very funny but I disagree with much of what he says these days. He's your typical English 50-something, comfortable, closed-minded, opinionated bore who is suspicious and readily dismissive of anything outside of his tiny bubble. We all know English people like this. They are conservative and they like comfort, with any change being seen as beneath them. Most people, if unaffected by something directly, will often think that the issue isn't as bad as people say it is. I'm sure there are studies somewhere about what age the average person is when they stop accepting new information.

What is also true is that as a child, Noel was beaten by his father. His life has been one silent reaction to the scared little boy who wants to make sure he's in control of all aspects and will tighten his grip even further at the first threat of anything. Interestingly, Liam was never beaten by their Dad, and that is what causes much of the tension and exiled relationship. Of course, psychotherapy would go a long way to helping Noel, but that's outside of his tiny bubble. "A fockin' shrink? Lying on a sofa with a fockin' Oxbridge dick telling me about my life? Fock off".
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: jobotic on June 11, 2021, 11:23:39 AM
Who cares if he's nice in person? Most people are.

He's contributing to the Tory culture wars. Fuck him and his woke snowflake wanker words.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: greenman on June 11, 2021, 11:33:34 AM
Quote from: DJ Bob Hoskins on June 11, 2021, 01:12:19 AMETA: I'd perhaps even make a counter-argument in that the Britpop era also introduced me to bands such as Pulp and the Divine Comedy and Manic Street Preachers and Belle & Sebastian, and the idea that not only was it OK to be skinny, slightly effeminate, oddly-dressed and overly-sensitive in a hitherto conformist macho society, but that it was actually cool to be that type of person. So if that's Oasis's fault too, then cheers, Oasis.

My memory of the time was that somewhat of a justification for Oasis, Ocean Colour Scene, etc via the idea it would ultimately lead to more interesting music getting attention. I think you could argue for awhile after the Britpop peak in 94-96 that was actually the case but then there was by the millennium a reaction against that, the rise of the Strokes, Libertines, etc that really made surely bloke rock was here to stay long term.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Wet Blanket on June 11, 2021, 11:40:01 AM
Entertaining article but I don't know if I agree that Britpop had any lasting impact, positive or negative. Perhaps it was the soundtrack to Blairism and the birth of the neoliberal capitalist consensus or whatever but that's arguably more coincidence than anything else. It was all over within about four years, then there was the strange period of cheapo boy bands vs turgid rock balladry ala Travis, Embrace etc. and then that brief revival of New Wave before streaming more or less made pop music irrelevant.

I lay the death of pop culture on BBC2 and Channel 4's giving up on the avant-garde stuff and pivoting towards property and gardening programmes.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on June 11, 2021, 11:47:22 AM
You still get lads warbling along to things like Champagne Supernova and playing it enough for it to be a bit annoying on pub jukeboxes so I'd argue it's had some impact.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: druss on June 11, 2021, 12:29:48 PM
Quote from: jobotic on June 11, 2021, 11:23:39 AM
Who cares if he's nice in person? Most people are.

He's contributing to the Tory culture wars. Fuck him and his woke snowflake wanker words.
Fair enough, I try not to hate people for their politics, most of my friends are liberal but I don't disown the few who aren't, always try to see the best in people. Look to America to see how the "us vs them" narrative plays out. Hating the other side won't make them change their mind or make the world a better place.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: jobotic on June 11, 2021, 12:39:03 PM
Quote from: druss on June 11, 2021, 12:29:48 PM
Fair enough, I try not to hate people for their politics, most of my friends are liberal but I don't disown the few who aren't, always try to see the best in people. Look to America to see how the "us vs them" narrative plays out. Hating the other side won't make them change their mind or make the world a better place.

Same here when it comes to friends, family and colleagues. Might be different if they were spewing shit about the "woke" in The S*n though.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Kankurette on June 11, 2021, 12:46:07 PM
Quote from: druss on June 11, 2021, 12:29:48 PM
Fair enough, I try not to hate people for their politics, most of my friends are liberal but I don't disown the few who aren't, always try to see the best in people. Look to America to see how the "us vs them" narrative plays out. Hating the other side won't make them change their mind or make the world a better place.
I doubt Noel Gallagher cares whether some randos on a forum hate him or not. Even if I was nice to him, he'd be set in his ways and I'm a woman so he'd just write me off anyway. Also, I have very little time for white people who use 'woke' as an insult. It sets off more red flags than Old Trafford on match day. And if someone's politics are actively harmful to me - e.g. they think disabled people are inferior - I don't see why I should tolerate it. Life's too short.

The Britpop era got me into Space, SFA, Catatonia, the Manics and Kenickie, so it wasn't all bad. There was some good/innovative stuff around at that time.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: sevendaughters on June 11, 2021, 12:50:28 PM
Noel is someone who had quite a patch of depression in the late 80s and late 90s and got out of the rut at the same time he became famous and rich, thereby thinking that his cure was money and fame, and now acts as if taking the side of power is actually taking the side of himself. What has been hubris in others has never been popped in him, and so he continues.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Brundle-Fly on June 11, 2021, 01:10:01 PM
I completely understand why Neil Kulkarni and Simon Price despise Oasis as journos because they were in the eye of the storm from the off. They probably know stuff that goes beyond Noelypops being a reactionary old wind-up merchant who knows what buttons to press.

I really liked Definitely Maybe when it came out. It was only when I read more and more interviews with the brothers, banging on about 'real music', promoting this nebulous working-class heroes ethos, and generally being really arrogant oaves that I soon switched off. (And Noel wishing AIDS on half of Blur didn't help, although he did apologise for that). Cocaine abuse played a big part in him being awful back then but he doesn't have that excuse now. He's pretty much bulletproof, isnt he?
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 01:15:24 PM
Quote from: turnstyle on June 11, 2021, 09:59:42 AM
Columbia's good innit.

Original version is indispensible. Definitely Maybe itself has always sounded like dogshit. Be Here Now is fascinating as an artifact but not in the way anyone intended, shit like My Big Mouth finds a middle ground between Loveless and Complete.

Noel Gallagher has gone from making me laugh regularly to being totally insufferable but he'll have to do a lot worse than talk like a Facebook Uncle before I take fucking Prince Harrys side against his cmon. Fuck the grift and cynicism. Harry is one of the worst human beings in the public eye right now and its only the ire of twats like Penis Morneg that is blinding people (temporarily one hopes) to how nasty him and Meghan are and how damaging their concoction of woke banter and "mental health awareness" might turn out to be if enough vulnerable people fall for the brand.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: JamesTC on June 11, 2021, 01:16:05 PM
Should preface by saying that I love Oasis. Noel and Liam are cunts but different types of cunts.

Liam is a dumb cunt. Regularly does and says shitty things but also occasionally has these weird moments of likeability and self awareness. Just yesterday I looked at his Twitter and saw him just chatting away with fans and answering questions (albeit in his own shall we say enigmatic way). For all of his many faults, he does at the very least seem to care about the fans. Low bar, I know. Hitting rock bottom a few years ago and repeatedly begging Noel to get Oasis back together probably helped.

Noel is smarter. He should know better. But he just comes out with more and more culture war right wing bollocks as time goes on. Back in the 90s the arrogance was part of the image And it seemed like he just played it up but now it just comes across as a sad old man. And the people he seems to hate most these days are actually the Oasis fans (makes a change from Oasis drummers). He seems to have a bee in his bonnet that Liam is doing well by just doing Oasis knockoffs and playing old Oasis songs while his experimental shite isn't getting the praise he thinks it deserves.

I'd already decided not to buy his best of album (it comes with a bonus disc of new stuff) but if I hadn't then I definitely wouldn't have been buying it after he did an exclusive interview with The Sun. Sell out prick can fuck off now as can any future release of his.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 01:17:03 PM
Is that a man with legs made of sausages? That's not real.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 01:23:16 PM
Pissing on Bourdieu books and flicking Vs at fideist analysis of pop culture: ♪ you and I are gonna live for ever ♪
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: dr beat on June 11, 2021, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: Wet Blanket on June 11, 2021, 11:40:01 AM
Entertaining article but I don't know if I agree that Britpop had any lasting impact, positive or negative. Perhaps it was the soundtrack to Blairism and the birth of the neoliberal capitalist consensus or whatever but that's arguably more coincidence than anything else. It was all over within about four years, then there was the strange period of cheapo boy bands vs turgid rock balladry ala Travis, Embrace etc. and then that brief revival of New Wave before streaming more or less made pop music irrelevant.

I lay the death of pop culture on BBC2 and Channel 4's giving up on the avant-garde stuff and pivoting towards property and gardening programmes.

I'm thinking about Taylor's article.  I can understand the disappointment of people who remember the early 80s, when it seemed like a load of bands were becoming genuinely widely popular, like say 2-tone or New Romantic stuff, which looked like it was challenging attitudes around race and sexuality in Thatcher's Britain. But then it fizzled out by the mid-80s.  I can also understand the disappointment people have might have felt in the 90s with what Britpop became and stood for. after an initial optimism when the decade turned. 

I take his point about the complacency masked as optimism in Britpop, but I don't think you can just blame that on Britpop.  There was a lot of complacency (arrogance?) around generally in the early 90s.  I'm thinking mainly about the whole Fukuyama End of History 'we don't have to worry about politics anymore, its all sorted' which was rife for a while.  David Stubbs (to pull in another of the CMP gang) has talked about the lack of perceived threat to the Western world in that period, and that politics was a given.  Everyone knew the Tories were fucked pre-97 and assumed that Blair would walk it, and no-one saw anything to really fight for or rail against.  I'd say Britpop was a symptom of that attitude rather than a cause. 
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: turnstyle on June 11, 2021, 01:36:59 PM
Quote from: JamesTC on June 11, 2021, 01:16:05 PM

He seems to have a bee in his bonnet that Liam is doing well by just doing Oasis knockoffs and playing old Oasis songs


Genuine question: Is he? His Beady Eye (christ) and solo stuff seems to be entirely irrelevant, at least as far as I can tell. Maybe there's a contingent of hardcore Oasis fans who have followed him, and I imagine that pre-pandemic he was making some decent cash with gigging, but otherwise I get the impression that his post-Oasis work has been pretty weak and received with a lack of general interest. I could be totally wrong about that. Regardless, I'm sure the Oasis money will merrily keep him in cold Fosters and Kangol bucket hats for the next 8000 years.

Noel's solo output seems to have met the same fate to me, though again, I'm sure he has a supportive audience.

Ironic really considering all the Beatles worshiping they did in the 90s, that their own solo output should be so flaccid. Most of the Beatles went onto write some cracking songs immediately after they disbanded, where as I couldn't hum you a single Noel or Liam solo song.

Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: sevendaughters on June 11, 2021, 01:43:38 PM
As You Were by LG went platinum. Second one only gold. Beady Eye declined too, gold then silver.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: turnstyle on June 11, 2021, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: sevendaughters on June 11, 2021, 01:43:38 PM
As You Were by LG went platinum. Second one only gold. Beady Eye declined too, gold then silver.

Thanks for that info, off to top myself.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: peanutbutter on June 11, 2021, 01:59:16 PM
Noel's solo stuff has tipped along with some kind of moderate interest but we're probably around the point where even in his own head he's just a nostalgia act so the pivot into being a reactionary old cunt would make sense to happen around now.
Blame the poor performance of the next album he had zero faith in on wokeness.

Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: sevendaughters on June 11, 2021, 02:04:12 PM
I reckon his Best of High Flying Birds will go to number 1. Can only name one song from it.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 02:07:06 PM
I hated how because everyone enjoyed that youtube condensation of his DVD commentary he included a skit referencing it, or acting out one of the bits, in his next video. Which had Marr on it and all.

Couldn't just acknowledge that people find his curmudgeonly comments funny when he lets his guard down, he had to enshrine it in a stupid skit. The man seems incapable of enjoying anything unless its officially pronounced as a classic moment. How can you be a devote Beatles fan and have zero appreciation for spontaneity and serendipity, and want every song to have a proper middle eight like a proper song. The Beatles, the band famous for only doing things properly and only making proper classic rock n roll songs.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: SOMK on June 11, 2021, 02:55:56 PM
Brit pop was a culture war, it was a mostly media driven phenomena that lumped together a few bands influenced by the music coke-head middle-aged people in executive positions liked when they were teenagers, as opposed to the three-headed hydra of rave culture, grunge and rap/hip hop.

It went hand-in-hand with the middle class discovery of football post Hillsborough, the Premiership breakaway & 'Fever Pitch'. And other reactionary cultural phenomena like, Lads magazines, the YBA's, 'reclaiming' the symbology of Empire from racists (union jacks and English flags ahoy!), Four Weddings and a Funeral (which led directly to Boris Johnson's Churchill/Hugh Grant schtick) & the grotesquely unearned 'end of history' thesis that the best and only system of Anglo-centric free market capitalism had 'won' (and the resulting unearned self-confidence) that emerged following the fall of the Soviet Union.

It was the creative manifestation of a tiny few members of a generation of people who Thatcherism was content to spunk the North-sea oil money on giving dole payments in lieu of employment and housing was still vaguely affordable before New Labour hit on the bright idea of welfare to work, a 'hand up' not a 'hand out', meaning same people on dole had now to perpetually present themselves as looking for work and absolutely could not spend their spare time fucking around learning guitar. Leading fairly rapidly to working class music acts in general getting filtered out of pop music.

As dreadful as Oasis are in many respects (though I've have a soft spot for Liam Gallagher's Zero Fucks Smash Hits interviews about spots "cut them off with a razor, I've never had them" and urinating on public transport "I just sat there and let it swish around and pretended it had nothing to do with me"), they are positively Shakespearean when compared to Mumford and Sons.

Favourite random Brit Pop fact, is when Bret Anderson first met Justine Frischmann's found her accent so posh he thought she had a speech impediment.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: A Hat Like That on June 11, 2021, 03:29:31 PM
Quote from: Key on June 11, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
The thing that really puts me off about Oasis' music is that it's so stodgy. Listening to the plodding sludge makes me feel like I've just eaten six pies. Everythings always at this low-mid tempo, not fast enough to be exciting and not slow enough to be compelling  but the exact bmp of dullness. Then the guitars and Liam whine over the top like drunken bagpipes, a 5 mile trek through a bog. the Sex Pistols as heard through the ears of a dysthymic. God Noel where is the spirit? Where the invention you pentatonic cunt.

The description 'drummer sounds like his shoes are wet' is a great line.
Not sure where I read it, recent though
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: The Culture Bunker on June 11, 2021, 03:43:17 PM
Quote from: A Hat Like That on June 11, 2021, 03:29:31 PM
The description 'drummer sounds like his shoes are wet' is a great line.
Not sure where I read it, recent though
You look at the supposed inspirations behind Oasis - the Beatles, the Smiths, Stone Roses, Slade: they all had very good rhythm sections. But then I always presumed their wall-of-sludge guitar sound was more by design, as the idea of having any kind of "groove" might be seen as a bit soft.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: JamesTC on June 11, 2021, 03:51:46 PM
Quote from: sevendaughters on June 11, 2021, 01:43:38 PM
As You Were by LG went platinum. Second one only gold. Beady Eye declined too, gold then silver.

Beady Eye were pretty much DOA. The name killed them off alone. Still think their first album is the best post-Oasis release but I admit that isn't a popular opinion. I guess a knockoff version of Don't Believe The Truth was what I fancied at the time.

Obviously Liam isn't hitting the heights that Oasis did or even that Noel did with his first album but he is doing much better than Brady Eye ever were. Three number one albums and a few songs that have done well (Wall of Glass, For What It's Worth and Once). Playing on bigger stages too.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: The Culture Bunker on June 11, 2021, 03:43:17 PM
You look at the supposed inspirations behind Oasis - the Beatles, the Smiths, Stone Roses, Slade: they all had very good rhythm sections. But then I always presumed their wall-of-sludge guitar sound was more by design, as the idea of having any kind of "groove" might be seen as a bit soft.

I don't know how intentional the effect was but this is exactly how most of Definitely Maybe was recorded, I think.

The band laid down a skeleton of a track. The engineer would sweeten the drums by making them metronymic, sometimes plastering them with drum machines (really obvious in "Bring It On Down") and Noel would come in and "coat it", put enough guitar on it to make it unrecognisable then it would all get compressed into the sound of million farts escaping a hotwater bottle. For all Oasis' alleged realness this is exactly how I imagine Stock Aikten and Waterman would have done it if they decided to have a piece of the grunge pie.

I think this why the original release of "Columbia" is the choice keeper track for Oasis: Noel hadn't got the image in his head straight enough to efface the influence of the Smiths and the Roses and its the only elastic sounding track he's ever recorded unless "Setting Sun" counts as his. Its a shame he didn't record stuff like "Acqueisce" with the same attitude. I've wondered if the reason he hates Standing on the Shoulder so much, other than how fucking terrible is it, is that he went back to try something looser with a bit of menace and a bit of a wiggle on it, and he just ate shit even though the riffs and hooks (Gas Panic and all) were miles better than anything he'd done in years. The next record was well away from anything dancy pure fartcore wall of guitar ballad bullshit and one of the worst albums I've ever heard.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Kankurette on June 11, 2021, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: SOMK on June 11, 2021, 02:55:56 PM
Brit pop was a culture war, it was a mostly media driven phenomena that lumped together a few bands influenced by the music coke-head middle-aged people in executive positions liked when they were teenagers, as opposed to the three-headed hydra of rave culture, grunge and rap/hip hop.

It went hand-in-hand with the middle class discovery of football post Hillsborough, the Premiership breakaway & 'Fever Pitch'. And other reactionary cultural phenomena like, Lads magazines, the YBA's, 'reclaiming' the symbology of Empire from racists (union jacks and English flags ahoy!), Four Weddings and a Funeral (which led directly to Boris Johnson's Churchill/Hugh Grant schtick) & the grotesquely unearned 'end of history' thesis that the best and only system of Anglo-centric free market capitalism had 'won' (and the resulting unearned self-confidence) that emerged following the fall of the Soviet Union.

It was the creative manifestation of a tiny few members of a generation of people who Thatcherism was content to spunk the North-sea oil money on giving dole payments in lieu of employment and housing was still vaguely affordable before New Labour hit on the bright idea of welfare to work, a 'hand up' not a 'hand out', meaning same people on dole had now to perpetually present themselves as looking for work and absolutely could not spend their spare time fucking around learning guitar. Leading fairly rapidly to working class music acts in general getting filtered out of pop music.

As dreadful as Oasis are in many respects (though I've have a soft spot for Liam Gallagher's Zero Fucks Smash Hits interviews about spots "cut them off with a razor, I've never had them" and urinating on public transport "I just sat there and let it swish around and pretended it had nothing to do with me"), they are positively Shakespearean when compared to Mumford and Sons.

Favourite random Brit Pop fact, is when Bret Anderson first met Justine Frischmann's found her accent so posh he thought she had a speech impediment.
Oasis at least wrote some songs that were fun to dance to, or catchy, or even moving (yes, I am going to get sneered at but I can't help my reaction to music, you know?) Mumford & Sons don't even have that going for them. They could only dream of writing something like The Masterplan or Cast No Shadow.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Lemming on June 11, 2021, 04:17:29 PM
I can't imagine having much of a reaction beyond bemused laughter to anything the Gallaghers do or say. Noel does come across as somewhat more of a cunt than Liam, who is either genuinely a complete fucking idiot or has perfected the persona of such. Both of them are funny in small doses as ridiculous caricatures, a pair of fuckwits who have essentially been reduced to court jesters due to the fact that they now exist in a world in which they're simultaneously behind the times and no longer really relevant, and yet still firmly embedded in popular culture. Liam seems to be at least somewhat aware of this, which renders him occasionally likeable.

As for the eternal "is Oasis shit" discussion, Definitely Maybe is a great album, especially the big deluxe edition that has Cloudburst and all that on it. Columbia and Supersonic are great, and then there's a lot of good songs holding the rest of it together, ie Shakermaker, Cigarettes and Alcohol, what-have-you. I even love Liam's vocals. A lot of the hate for the music feels like a semi-performative reaction to the Gallaghers and the cultural impact of Oasis, rather than to the music itself. I can see why people fucking hate (What's The Story) Morning Glory though.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 04:28:47 PM
I don't really buy that Oasis were more of a culturally conservative proposition than other bands who were desperately trying to make crossover guitar pop a thing before them. "Noel Rock" definitely was, but that's a different issue.

Stereolab ended up recording some subtly anti-marxist libertarian songs
Luke Haines might have been a lefty early on but he transformed into a full reactionary over a decade.
There is very dodgy stuff on the Denim record ("fake make up boys", "we hate the IRA", "i hate funk and I hate soul")
Gedge might be a nice man with good opinions but his thing was bringing the sexual/gender ambiguity of stuff like the Smiths or lofi back into traditional boy meets girl story songs.
Despite the aesthetic, MSP were/are bothsideism: the band.
Radiohead dedicated a record to Bill Hicks.
New Order were called New Order.
Loads of throwback bands like the La's were uncomfortably nationalistic in their ideas of what good music should be about.
Blur were rich boys sneering at paups. One them sells McDonalds in the Sun now.
Suede immediately dove into 70s revivalism and all its unpleasantness.

I could go on.

The same guy who posted the Oasis rant has a similar one about the Stone Roses. How many other hit albums have a song about May 1968 on them? Oasis' "is it worth the aggreviation/to find yourself a job when nothing is work working for?" still stands apart as a cutting statement of disaffection even if neither of them really meant (or just lucked into such a good line)

Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Brundle-Fly on June 11, 2021, 04:38:02 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 04:28:47 PM
I don't really buy that Oasis were more of a culturally conservative proposition than other bands who were desperately trying to make crossover guitar pop a thing before them. "Noel Rock" definitely was, but that's a different issue.

Stereolab ended up recording some subtly anti-marxist libertarian songs
Luke Haines might have been a lefty early on but he transformed into a full reactionary over a decade.
There is very dodgy stuff on the Denim record ("fake make up boys", "we hate the IRA", "i hate funk and I hate soul")
Gedge might be a nice man with good opinions but his thing was bringing the sexual/gender ambiguity of stuff like the Smiths or lofi back into traditional boy meets girl story songs.
Despite the aesthetic, MSP were/are bothsideism: the band.
Radiohead dedicated a record to Bill Hicks.
New Order were called New Order.
Loads of throwback bands like the La's were uncomfortably nationalistic in their ideas of what good music should be about.
Blur were rich boys sneering at paups.

I could go on.

So what are we left with? Chumbawamba? Woop-di-doo.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: turnstyle on June 11, 2021, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: Brundle-Fly on June 11, 2021, 04:38:02 PM
So what are we left with? Chumbawamba? Woop-di-doo.

Them and the Levellers. Unless they're doing adverts for high street bakery chains now, I don't really follow their activities.

'There's only one, steak bake, and that's at Greggs, that's at Greggs, that's at Greeeeggggs'
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 04:42:46 PM
I mean singling Oasis out is mistaking correlation for causation. Nearly every band is guilty of the same things if you squint hard enough. I don't think club music or electronica would fair that much better either.

What makes Oasis stand out isn't their success, its that there was a stupid music journalism scandal about how good they really were.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: chveik on June 11, 2021, 04:53:34 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 04:28:47 PM
Stereolab ended up recording some subtly anti-marxist libertarian songs

i never really pay attention to lyrics, can you give some examples?
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 05:05:26 PM
Quote from: chveik on June 11, 2021, 04:53:34 PM
i never really pay attention to lyrics, can you give some examples?

Lots of songs on their late 90s/early 00s records ("Free Design", "People Do It All The Time", plenty more on Sound-Dust but I can't remember titles) have themes of not being able to plan for everything, accepting chaos, openness, pluralism and personal choice. They definitely sound like they're renounced something. I remember watching the video for "Free Design" where a gogo girl takes off in a rocket ship at the end and thinking "did Stereolab just do a song about planned economies being bad?"

They're all obscure and vague, but its a notable change from a band who recorded "Jenny Ondioline" "Crest" "Ping Pong" and other explicitly Marxist and sloganistic songs.

I don't want to be glib and say I wasn't surprised when Laetitia Sadier came out for Peterson though, maybe that was a misunderstanding. But my first thought was "Stereolab have been like this for ages, haven't they?"
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Catalogue of ills on June 11, 2021, 05:09:32 PM
I appreciated the sentiment, but I remembered Kulkarni being a better writer. I thought this piece was quite repetitive and just a bit flat.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: The Culture Bunker on June 11, 2021, 05:14:23 PM
Quote from: Kankurette on June 11, 2021, 04:10:12 PM
Oasis at least wrote some songs that were fun to dance to, or catchy, or even moving (yes, I am going to get sneered at but I can't help my reaction to music, you know?) Mumford & Sons don't even have that going for them. They could only dream of writing something like The Masterplan or Cast No Shadow.
I certainly hope it doesn't come across as sneering - as I have no doubt huge parts of my record collection would not be to yours or many others taste - but I'm not sure how you can dance to Oasis. The early stuff, at least, which is all I really know by them.

I DJ'd at my Student Union from 99-02 and I think I only had them requested once ('Rock and Roll Star') when the likes of Blur, Suede and even Ride (I was very impressed when a girl asked for 'Burning' from their much maligned last album) came up frequently.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: greenman on June 11, 2021, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: Lemming on June 11, 2021, 04:17:29 PM
I can't imagine having much of a reaction beyond bemused laughter to anything the Gallaghers do or say. Noel does come across as somewhat more of a cunt than Liam, who is either genuinely a complete fucking idiot or has perfected the persona of such. Both of them are funny in small doses as ridiculous caricatures, a pair of fuckwits who have essentially been reduced to court jesters due to the fact that they now exist in a world in which they're simultaneously behind the times and no longer really relevant, and yet still firmly embedded in popular culture. Liam seems to be at least somewhat aware of this, which renders him occasionally likeable.

As for the eternal "is Oasis shit" discussion, Definitely Maybe is a great album, especially the big deluxe edition that has Cloudburst and all that on it. Columbia and Supersonic are great, and then there's a lot of good songs holding the rest of it together, ie Shakermaker, Cigarettes and Alcohol, what-have-you. I even love Liam's vocals. A lot of the hate for the music feels like a semi-performative reaction to the Gallaghers and the cultural impact of Oasis, rather than to the music itself. I can see why people fucking hate (What's The Story) Morning Glory though.

It does actually end up being one of the few areas were cultural progression in music feels as rapid as it was in the late 20th century in just how irrelevant the Gallaghers have actually become, I don't even get the sense that there on the cusp of any kind of cultural rediscovery.

Honestly I think part of the problem they had was that Whats The Story was an artistic failure but a massive commercial success, trying to merge the sound of Definitely Maybe with something more melodic really not succeeding but doing so well with it they kept with that sound for the rest of their career. The B-sides around that era did show Noel as a decent enough writter of melodies when they werent sunken into coke sludge.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Catalogue Trousers on June 11, 2021, 05:56:38 PM
Good things about Oasis:

Patrick Macnee's cameo in the Don't Look Back In Anger video (albeit tempered with the sadness that he either needed the money that much or was so mildly senile that he didn't fully comprehend what shite he was getting involved in)

Neil Innes catching them out nicking the tune for How Sweet To Be An Idiot for Whatever and taking them to the cleaners for a hefty out-of-court settlement

Bad things about Oasis:

Every-fucking-thing else
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Kankurette on June 11, 2021, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 04:28:47 PM
I don't really buy that Oasis were more of a culturally conservative proposition than other bands who were desperately trying to make crossover guitar pop a thing before them. "Noel Rock" definitely was, but that's a different issue.

Stereolab ended up recording some subtly anti-marxist libertarian songs
Luke Haines might have been a lefty early on but he transformed into a full reactionary over a decade.
There is very dodgy stuff on the Denim record ("fake make up boys", "we hate the IRA", "i hate funk and I hate soul")
Gedge might be a nice man with good opinions but his thing was bringing the sexual/gender ambiguity of stuff like the Smiths or lofi back into traditional boy meets girl story songs.
Despite the aesthetic, MSP were/are bothsideism: the band.
Radiohead dedicated a record to Bill Hicks.
New Order were called New Order.
Loads of throwback bands like the La's were uncomfortably nationalistic in their ideas of what good music should be about.
Blur were rich boys sneering at paups. One them sells McDonalds in the Sun now.
Suede immediately dove into 70s revivalism and all its unpleasantness.

I could go on.

The same guy who posted the Oasis rant has a similar one about the Stone Roses. How many other hit albums have a song about May 1968 on them? Oasis' "is it worth the aggreviation/to find yourself a job when nothing is work working for?" still stands apart as a cutting statement of disaffection even if neither of them really meant (or just lucked into such a good line)
Hating the IRA is dodgy now? And why were the Manics 'both sides'?
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 06:33:46 PM
Def don't like what Lawrence sings in that song.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Brundle-Fly on June 11, 2021, 06:43:13 PM
Maybe The Las and their ilk liked making retro sounding rock music. You could accuse them of being musically non progressive but why does this automatically make them nationalistic? What were they supposed to have recorded back then? Bhangra dance records?
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
The Las are the pinacle of a certain kind of purism in UK pop culture that looks at some feted moment and tries to make a version of it that is just the British parts. I hear a little bit of Bob Dylan in their music but other than that they sound like a certain kind of 60s pop with all its American and ye-ye influences removed. I think "Timeless Melody" is their best song and if someone asked me to describe it I'd say it was like the Zombies minus any kind of soul/r&b groove but with an indie guitar hook instead.

I don't think its stretching to drawn a line between that and nationalism. I'm not saying they were sitting around going "let's sound as English as possible!" exactly.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: anxiousmofo on June 11, 2021, 08:20:49 PM
Plenty of non-UK influences in The La's music. Some songs have a clear Brecht/Weill jaunt (Son of a Gun, Freedom Song), others a splash of Reinhardtian call-and-response (Liberty Ship, Looking Glass). Callin' All's step-up-and-down the frets is pretty North African in a way. Add in the otherworldly, muezzinish harmonies in the voices or the skidding solo on Timeless Melody and the accusations of parochialism or nationalism seems a bit of a stretch.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Brundle-Fly on June 11, 2021, 08:49:11 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
The Las are the pinacle of a certain kind of purism in UK pop culture that looks at some feted moment and tries to make a version of it that is just the British parts. I hear a little bit of Bob Dylan in their music but other than that they sound like a certain kind of 60s pop with all its American and ye-ye influences removed. I think "Timeless Melody" is their best song and if someone asked me to describe it I'd say it was like the Zombies minus any kind of soul/r&b groove but with an indie guitar hook instead.

I don't think its stretching to drawn a line between that and nationalism. I'm not saying they were sitting around going "let's sound as English as possible!" exactly.

No, they moe likely said, "Let's make a record that we'd want to hear". I admire your passion but I couldn't put bands under such microscopic scrutiny.  It's only certain music rags at the time and Steve Lamacq who wanked on about The Las. Most of the country was listening 'The Power' by Snap! and not giving a second thought about the retrogressive parochial shortcomings of UK indie bands.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: PaulTMA on June 11, 2021, 08:51:45 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 06:33:46 PM
Def don't like what Lawrence sings in that song.

"We hate the IRA" is in the context of the sentiment in Birmingham after the bombing, the entire point of 'Middle Of The Road' is the narrator denouncing all 'classic' music irrespective of race - Spector, Dylan, "licks", "guitar riffs" etc and the "fake makeup boys", well he hated Duran Duran?  Would have to get up pretty early to be offended by any of that
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
My point wasn't to say any of those bands was particularly bad! It was that conservative sentiments were evenly distributed across all "alternative" music in the early 90s before Oasis and britpop, even bands which started out as overtly lefty. The comparison between alternative pop and stereotypical "lad" bands like Oasis and the Stone Roses is specious if its on that basis. I'm also pretty unconvinced that Oasis were a media phenomenon: it was their relentless touring and release schedule designed to hype their gigs that made them huge, surely. The working class hero stuff didn't kick into overdrive until after What's The Story and outlets that slated that record went back on themselves to praise their authenticity. It's stupid to pretend Oasis were something foisted on unsuspecting and credulous oiks by conniving media (Kulkarni implies this shit a lot) where their popularity was measurable and undeniably a result of down market demand swamping studenty alternatives. By the time tabloids gave a fuck Oasis were millionaires and already acting like the new Beatles.

In my mind this:
QuoteThe ladmags, Chris Evans' grotesque genuflection, that NW1 posh-boy joy about having some 'characterful' Northerners to goggle at, all that coked-up reactionary twattery, all conducted in an era in which female artists and black artists were being marginalised by the UK music press and UK pop telly.

describes 1996-2001 far more than 1992-1996 and Oasis' "rise". You could probably make more of a case of it being caused not by anything affirming it but by 1996/1997 being the period where "ladettes" and female sleaziness and trashiness finally made into the pop culture mainstream and the need for lads to re-assert themselves against something they had to make room for. Which seems absolutely the case with things like Chris Evans and obvious attempts to reclaim kitchiness and campness for braying Garys.


Its clear I've done the same thing meself re: The Las, who always sounded like a completely purist venture to me (because I only like half the record, I was able to stereotype them in my head as proto-Noel rock)
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: buzby on June 11, 2021, 09:19:21 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 04:28:47 PM
New Order were called New Order.
Really? Someone still thinks they are secretly Nazis, or even 'conservative with a small c'?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/new-order-why-europe-made-us-what-we-are-today-15838 (https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/new-order-why-europe-made-us-what-we-are-today-15838)
They were playing benefit gigs for striking miners, Militant in Liverpool, Mexican earthquake victims and AIDS  charities when most of the Britpop lot were still in naopies.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 09:21:29 PM
I can point out a band had conservative elements or aesthetics without saying they were secret nazis! New Order dabbled with far right aesthetics very early in their career. That's it.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Kankurette on June 11, 2021, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 09:21:29 PM
I can point out a band had conservative elements or aesthetics without saying they were secret nazis! New Order dabbled with far right aesthetics very early in their career. That's it.
You mean calling themselves Joy Division?

I never got the hype about the La's. And yes, you're right, the '92-'96 era was when grunge was a big thing - the lad bollocks didn't get really big until the mid '90s when Euro '96 happened and Chris fucking Evans was everywhere.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: buzby on June 11, 2021, 09:32:24 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 09:21:29 PM
I can point out a band had conservative elements or aesthetics without saying they were secret nazis! New Order dabbled with far right aesthetics very early in their career. That's it.
Name one. The Italian Futurist-inspired sleeve art for Movement and Procession? It was Peter Saville who created those. The band had no idea what it was about. Joy Division may have dabbled in far right imagery very early on (as did a lot of other punk bands at the time, purely as shock tactics) and before you say it, yes Ian made his wife vote for Thatcher, but New Order never actively did. Nothing in their music was remotely conservative during the 1980s, with most of their influences coming from German, Iralian and US dance music.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Pauline Walnuts on June 11, 2021, 09:36:36 PM
So I said to Martin Bormann,
I said, "Hey Marty, why don't we throw a little Nazi party?"
So we had an election, well, kinda sorta
And before you knew it, hello New Order!
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 09:39:41 PM
I remember a backlash against rap being everywhere at the end of the 90s. Early 90s was still full of appropriations of rap and its aesthetics by brands and medium mouths.

That said I didn't really care about rap until Black Elvis came out so maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Quote from: buzby on June 11, 2021, 09:32:24 PM
Name one.

Their name. The sleeves. The album title "Movement". I'm sorry if the combination of band name, title and sleeve design doesn't seem like "dabbling in far right imagery" to you I don't know what to say. I'm not even saying its bad, it is what it says it is (and yes, excellently designed). Even Peel said he felt uncomfortable playing their records because of their name and their imagery early on. It doesn't have to be anything major or any specific intention, just dabbling. They've done the same with pop art, minimalism, etc so its not like I'm saying they're secret nazis or anything.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Pauline Walnuts on June 11, 2021, 09:46:14 PM
Isn't 'Movement' a joke on the last Joy Division album being called 'Still'?

Some of the fan club badges, err..

(https://i22.servimg.com/u/f22/19/92/48/87/ecawvc10.jpg)
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 09:49:29 PM
Sure. But its still an italian futurist design that says NEW ORDER MOVEMENT 1980.

Jesus, I'm not saying anything other than they briefly dabbled in far right imagery. Clearly they didn't have anything deep in mind with any of it because they switched to a completely original design aesthetic within a year.

Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 09:54:03 PM
twitter image just loaded. I forgot about the badges. I retract the "briefly"!
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Bently Sheds on June 11, 2021, 09:54:42 PM
Back when Neol Gallagher was promoting his second High Flying Turds album he mentioned he'd been listening to a lot of obscure 60s French pop. I kind of surmised that he did this so he could rip off lots of the obscure 60s French pop songs he was listening to and sound original and fresh to the cloth-eared colour supplement reviewers who would hail him as a genius for creating fresh new musc they'd never heard before, unless they were also listening to obscure 60s French pop.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: buzby on June 11, 2021, 10:19:20 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 09:39:41 PM
Even Peel said he felt uncomfortable playing their records because of their name and their imagery early on.
So apprehensive that he got them in to record their first session before their debut single had been released, and when he received a promo copy of it he played both sides in succession on his show.

The origins of the name thing has been done to death. It was from an article in the guardian about the Khmer Rouge (which was one of the rejected names on Rob Gretton's list, along with Black September).

Quote from: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on June 11, 2021, 09:46:14 PM
Some of the fan club badges, err..

(https://i22.servimg.com/u/f22/19/92/48/87/ecawvc10.jpg)
Those badges have got nothing to do with the band, or even most fans of the band, They were created by Hook's personal fanclub 'The Vikings', who are mostly boorish dickheads like him and have pissed off to follow his tribute act.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 10:24:46 PM
There used to be an interview with John Peel on youtube where he talks about his change of heart regarding fascist imagery in bands and singles out New Order's early singles and first album, despite appreciating the music.

There's a link to it on the John Peel wiki but its dead.

The etymology, meaning or real reason for something doesn't really have any bearing on what its political effect or connotation is.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: holyzombiejesus on June 11, 2021, 10:30:46 PM
Quote from: PaulTMA on June 11, 2021, 08:51:45 PM
"We hate the IRA" is in the context of the sentiment in Birmingham after the bombing, the entire point of 'Middle Of The Road' is the narrator denouncing all 'classic' music irrespective of race - Spector, Dylan, "licks", "guitar riffs" etc and the "fake makeup boys", well he hated Duran Duran?  Would have to get up pretty early to be offended by any of that

Exactly. Really bizarre.

If you want to quote dodgy Lawrence lyrics there are much better places to find them than on Denim records.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: chveik on June 11, 2021, 10:37:09 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 10:24:46 PM
The etymology, meaning or real reason for something doesn't really have any bearing on what its political effect or connotation is.

heh quite. these guys really were unlucky regarding their band names.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 10:45:05 PM
I should've clarified that I meant broad strokes 'culturally conservative' and not card carrying of any particular right wing group.

Which is why I included Gedge. There is clearly nothing wrong with writing albums of hetero love songs, just contextually he mined something which was previous associated with ambiguity ("My Favourite Dress", covering "Falling" and "She's My Best Friend", etc) to do so. An obv point of comparison would be the Huskers doing songs that sounded like angsty boy meets girl/break up songs but weren't.

Its really silly to act like Oasis suddenly brought normies into pop culture again in 1994. I just don't buy it.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Jockice on June 11, 2021, 11:24:34 PM
Quote from: PaulTMA on June 11, 2021, 08:51:45 PM
"We hate the IRA" is in the context of the sentiment in Birmingham after the bombing, the entire point of 'Middle Of The Road' is the narrator denouncing all 'classic' music irrespective of race - Spector, Dylan, "licks", "guitar riffs" etc and the "fake makeup boys", well he hated Duran Duran?  Would have to get up pretty early to be offended by any of that

I'm baffled too. Back In Denim is my favourite album ever and all the times I've listened to it I've never noticed anything offensive about it. Lawrence went to school with Roger Taylor from you know 'and you were nothing then. And when you left the band you were nothing again.; As far as I'm aware all of Duran Duran are straight and I seen them admit that they jumped on the new romantic bandwagon because they knew it would be an easy way to became famous. They even mentioned the words 'new romantic' on their first single just in case you hadn't noticed. So yes, 'fake make-up boys' seems pretty accurate.

As for other dodgy lyrics from Lawrence, I remember reading someone on another forum complaining about a reference to 'leaving the back doors open too wide' (or something along those lines) on a Go-Kart Mozart song as meaning he was against immigration. Again, it's quite a stretch. Describing the Queen Mum as 'great' though...

Anyway, I don't think I've ever been politically influenced by any singer. Apart from maybe Morrissey in the 80s. And look what happened to him.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: PaulTMA on June 11, 2021, 11:42:07 PM
Wait, is David Gedge homophobic or something now?  Can someone who follows 90s Melody Maker journalists' latterday work explain this
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 11:44:15 PM
Help!
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: ProvanFan on June 12, 2021, 12:11:12 AM
'Felt' could also be taken to mean 'molested'
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: PaulTMA on June 12, 2021, 01:04:46 AM
What do Taylor Parkes and Stubbsy think
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Ron Maels Moustache on June 13, 2021, 07:36:33 PM
Had the misfortune of hearing James Brown on Radio 4 earlier spouting a load of bollocks about how GRATE Britain in 1996 was because we had Oasis and Britpop and Three Lions etc. It was like the inverse of the Kulkarni piece if it was written by a complete moron.

Imagine if, like Brown, you were largely responsible for some of the wankiest aspects of lad culture and weren't the least bit embarrassed about it, how lacking in self-awareness would you have to be to not constantly want to punch yourself in the face?
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: druss on June 14, 2021, 08:22:22 AM
Quote from: Ron Maels Moustache on June 13, 2021, 07:36:33 PM
Had the misfortune of hearing James Brown on Radio 4 earlier spouting a load of bollocks about how GRATE Britain in 1996 was because we had Oasis and Britpop and Three Lions etc.
Never knew he was a Britpop fan, or that he had risen from the grave.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Goldentony on June 14, 2021, 08:11:35 PM
good god!
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: thehungerartist on June 18, 2021, 02:57:58 AM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 04:28:47 PM
I don't really buy that Oasis were more of a culturally conservative proposition than other bands who were desperately trying to make crossover guitar pop a thing before them. "Noel Rock" definitely was, but that's a different issue.

Stereolab ended up recording some subtly anti-marxist libertarian songs
Luke Haines might have been a lefty early on but he transformed into a full reactionary over a decade.
There is very dodgy stuff on the Denim record ("fake make up boys", "we hate the IRA", "i hate funk and I hate soul")
Gedge might be a nice man with good opinions but his thing was bringing the sexual/gender ambiguity of stuff like the Smiths or lofi back into traditional boy meets girl story songs.
Despite the aesthetic, MSP were/are bothsideism: the band.
Radiohead dedicated a record to Bill Hicks.
New Order were called New Order.
Loads of throwback bands like the La's were uncomfortably nationalistic in their ideas of what good music should be about.
Blur were rich boys sneering at paups. One them sells McDonalds in the Sun now.
Suede immediately dove into 70s revivalism and all its unpleasantness.

I could go on.

The same guy who posted the Oasis rant has a similar one about the Stone Roses. How many other hit albums have a song about May 1968 on them? Oasis' "is it worth the aggreviation/to find yourself a job when nothing is work working for?" still stands apart as a cutting statement of disaffection even if neither of them really meant (or just lucked into such a good line)

But but but The La's were contemporaries of The Smiths and were recording dub tracks before Morrissey was hanging the DJ???

In his autobiography, Johnny Marr slyly disparages Oasis and literally bums Mavers. In the bum. Using bumming.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: idunnosomename on June 18, 2021, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: druss on June 14, 2021, 08:22:22 AM
Never knew he was a Britpop fan, or that he had risen from the grave.
James Brown is dead.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: idunnosomename on June 18, 2021, 12:01:53 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on June 11, 2021, 01:17:03 PM
Is that a man with legs made of sausages? That's not real.
those commentaries are no exaggeration the best thing hes ever done
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Gulftastic on June 18, 2021, 12:07:49 PM
Quote from: Ron Maels Moustache on June 13, 2021, 07:36:33 PM
Had the misfortune of hearing James Brown on Radio 4 earlier spouting a load of bollocks about how GRATE Britain in 1996 was because we had Oasis and Britpop and Three Lions etc. It was like the inverse of the Kulkarni piece if it was written by a complete moron.

Imagine if, like Brown, you were largely responsible for some of the wankiest aspects of lad culture and weren't the least bit embarrassed about it, how lacking in self-awareness would you have to be to not constantly want to punch yourself in the face?

I know someone who was at school with Brown during the 80's (Lawnswood High in Leeds) and told me that Brown could have give two shits about football back then. He jumped on the 'lad' bandwagon and rode it to fame and riches.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: phantom_power on June 18, 2021, 12:44:24 PM
Quote from: idunnosomename on June 18, 2021, 10:57:24 AM
James Brown is dead.

I think you're looking for the Hardcore Rave thread
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Captain Z on June 18, 2021, 01:41:01 PM
I think they meant James Dean.
Title: Re: Awesome Oasis/Britpop thing
Post by: Kankurette on June 18, 2021, 05:16:33 PM
Quote from: Gulftastic on June 18, 2021, 12:07:49 PM
I know someone who was at school with Brown during the 80's (Lawnswood High in Leeds) and told me that Brown could have give two shits about football back then. He jumped on the 'lad' bandwagon and rode it to fame and riches.
Same with plenty of other 'lad' types. Admittedly, I am one of the dreaded middle-class football fans BUT I grew up watching it on telly with my dad (he was really into Gazzetta Football Italia back in the early '90s) and my love of it is genuine. I mean, if I wanted to be one of the cool kids I'd have picked Liverpool, not Everton or Sheffield Wednesday.