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Musical 'F*** my Hat, I didn't know that!'

Started by Rocket Surgery, February 21, 2018, 08:37:46 AM

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The Culture Bunker

Bearing in mind how often the MASH TV show is repeated (as well it being a big hit single in it's own right), I'm surprised he just made two million!

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on January 15, 2022, 09:48:03 PMBearing in mind how often the MASH TV show is repeated (as well it being a big hit single in it's own right), I'm surprised he just made two million!

The vocal version isn't used in the TV show, so no writing credit for Altman Jr.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Better Midlands on January 15, 2022, 11:05:36 PMThe vocal version isn't used in the TV show, so no writing credit for Altman Jr.
Fair enough. I think I assumed he'd come up with the vocal melody that is used - instrumentally - as the TV show theme, but obviously not.

famethrowa

Quote from: popcorn on January 15, 2022, 02:04:09 AMthis 1970 interview


It's annoying how the interviewer tries to accuse him of ripping off Let It Be on Bridge Over Troubled Water, using the old "many people say" gambit... To his credit, PS plays it off with a completely straight (and boring) bat, but apart from having piano and being a bit churchy, they're completely fucking different things. LIB is a definite all time classic, but it's basically a 4 bar phrase repeated through the whole song. BOTW is a long changing and evolving verse, like a Roy Orbison thing. LIB has Ringo and Billy Preston, BOTW has LA session musos and a massive Vegas ending, whereas LIB just kind of closes the hymn book.

famethrowa

Drummer on Toni Basil's Mickey? Mick Shrimpton.

Ant Farm Keyboard

#1415
Quote from: Better Midlands on January 15, 2022, 11:05:36 PMThe vocal version isn't used in the TV show, so no writing credit for Altman Jr.

As he's on the original registration for the song, he still gets a share of the rights. The stuff you mention only applies for translations or songs that are adaptations of existing instrumentals. Johnny Mandel wrote the melody and Michael Altman the lyrics in parallel, they registered the song together, and that's it, they're both regarded as the writers of the song, regardless of who did what.

Gene Roddenberry actually took advantage of that, as he wrote lyrics for the theme from Star Trek (written by Alexander Courage), just to be registered as a co-writer and get half the performance royalties. The theme from Bewitched had lyrics (Peggy Lee recorded it a few years later), and even if the producers eventually went with an instrumental version, the lyricist was still credited.

The $2M claim doesn't look too far fetched. Remember that there are particular publishing contracts for material written for a film or a TV show. Monty Norman, who's the sole credited writer for the James Bond Theme, made less than half a million pounds out of it from 1976 to 1999.

Anyway, during the French Occupation, the Marseillaise was basically forbidden. The unofficial national anthem was a song celebrating Marshal Pétain, "Maréchal, nous voilà !" (Marshal, Here We Are!). The lyricist had actually reshaped an unsuccessful song he had cowritten about the Tour de France a couple of years before, that actually lifted its melody from a different song about the Tour de France, which was already a plagiary of a song from a musical written by a Jewish composer. The original composer died in Auschwitz.

Regarding national anthems, the Marseillaise was actually written in Strasbourg for the French army fighting in Rhineland (it became much more popular when it was used by Marseille-based volunteers, hence its common name). It's credited to Rouget de Lisle, but he was mostly a lyricist (and most of the words are based on billboards and flyers shared in the previous weeks), and just a barely competent violinist. It's unlikely he wrote the tune (and he never actually claimed he had) so either he took inspiration from other works or added lyrics to a melody by some guy that was a royalist and remained uncredited to keep the reputation of the hymn intact.

And there's a theory that "God Saves the King" is based on a 1686 French song, "Grand Dieu sauve le Roi", celebrating Louis XIV's recovery from an anal fistula, even if its melody was a variation on other existing hymns, unrelated to anal fistulas.

#1416
Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on January 16, 2022, 02:48:48 PMAs he's on the original registration for the song, he still gets a share of the rights. The stuff you mention only applies for translations or songs that are adaptations of existing instrumentals. Johnny Mandel wrote the melody and Michael Altman the lyrics in parallel, they registered the song together, and that's it, they're both regarded as the writers of the song, regardless of who did what.

Good post and you raise an interesting point, I wonder if there are two versions registered - Theme From M*A*S*H (Suicide Is Painless) and Theme From M*A*S*H.

Like this is obviously wrong as it shows the single cover by The Mash.



The final credits and sheet music only show Johnny Mendel as the composer





as does Bill Evans' excellent instrumental version from 1981.




Apparently the TV show had two ever so slightly different versions for the credits, so maybe it was rerecorded for financial reasons.

Difficult to know how all the publishing got split if there was two versions registered, lovely story though and good for 14 year old Michael Altman.

Quote from: famethrowa on January 16, 2022, 09:56:26 AMDrummer on Toni Basil's Mickey? Mick Shrimpton.
How much more fucked can my hat be, and the answer is...none.

Glyn

On the theme of the theme from MASH, James Dean Bradfield mangled the lyrics in the Manic's cover version singing "the losing card of some delay" instead of "the losing card I'll someday lay".

Considering daytime radio hasn't heard the swearword in Motorcycle Emptiness yet it's easy to see why no-one noticed.

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Elton John's video for his hit song Nikita was directed by Ken Russell.


It's no The Devils, is it?

famethrowa

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on January 16, 2022, 07:52:55 PMElton John's video for his hit song Nikita was directed by Ken Russell.


Wow! It did always seem rather cinematic.

Wasn't there some rather bland 80s hit that was directed by Peckinpah? I forget

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: famethrowa on January 16, 2022, 10:17:45 PMWasn't there some rather bland 80s hit that was directed by Peckinpah? I forget
He did a couple for Julian Lennon's first album and died not long after. There's absolutely zero (to my eye, at least) about them that would make you think Peckinpah was in any way involved, but then - as you say - the songs were so bland as to not really merit anything beyond a standard performance vid approach

studpuppet

Quote from: famethrowa on January 16, 2022, 10:17:45 PMWasn't there some rather bland 80s hit that was directed by Peckinpah? I forget

Not what you're thinking of, but Perfect Kiss was directed by Jonathan 'Oscar winner for Silence Of The Lambs' Demme.


famethrowa

Quote from: studpuppet on January 17, 2022, 10:10:10 AMNot what you're thinking of, but Perfect Kiss was directed by Jonathan 'Oscar winner for Silence Of The Lambs' Demme.



Wow, that's kind of... a bad video? Endless mid-closeups of the same 6 shots. Nice grain though

grainger

I can't argue as to whether it's good at promoting the song (which is its intended function), but as a New Order fan, I always loved it. And it's certainly stood the test of time compared to most 80s music promos.

Norton Canes

Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on January 16, 2022, 02:48:48 PMGene Roddenberry actually took advantage of that, as he wrote lyrics for the theme from Star Trek (written by Alexander Courage), just to be registered as a co-writer and get half the performance royalties

Does that explain I Am The Doctor? Was Pertwee coining it in?

buzby

Quote from: studpuppet on January 17, 2022, 10:10:10 AMNot what you're thinking of, but Perfect Kiss was directed by Jonathan 'Oscar winner for Silence Of The Lambs' Demme.
It was long before Silence Of The Lambs though. Tony Wilson's friend/Factory's US representative Michael Shamberg was a film producer and had a good eye for spotting directors for New Order's videos. I believe Demme was offered the job for TPK after Shamberg saw his work on Talking Heads' Stop Making Sense. Demme was a fan of the band and featured their music in a couple of his films prior to Lambs (Something Wild and Married To The Mob).

Shamberg also spotted another future Oscar winner, Kathryn Bigelow, who came up with the hair metal parody of Touched By The Hand Of God (which also featured a cameo by Bill Paxton, as it was filmed when they were both over in the UK promoting Near Dark).

Shamberg also picked the choreographer Philippe Decouflé to direct the video for True Faith, and artists such as Robert Longo (Bizarre Love Triangle), Robert Breer/William Wegman (Blue Monday 88), Paula Greif (Round & Round) and Robert Frank (Run). Wilson himself asked his friend  and former Granada colleague Charles Sturridge (he directed episodes of Corrie, World In Action and the whole of Brideshead Revisited) to direct the documentary-style video for Confusion (Factory started in the Didsbury flat Sturridge shared with Alan Erasmus).

Quote from: famethrowa on January 17, 2022, 11:41:58 AMWow, that's kind of... a bad video? Endless mid-closeups of the same 6 shots. Nice grain though
The theme of the TPK video was to show New Order as they were - ordinary people at work in their rehearsal studio. It's also capturing a live performance (it's not mimed), so the cameras were mostly static so as not to get in the way of the band.
Quote from: Michael ShambergThe band didn't mime to songs, so we recorded the song live on 24-track. We brought D.P. Henri Alekan (cinematographer for Jean Cocteau's 'Beauty and the Beast') over to Manchester, shot in 35mm and edited with Tony Lawson (editor on Stanley Kubrick's 'Barry Lyndon', and many features by Nicolas Roeg) on a flatbed. Then we went to Amazon Studios in Liverpool to do a mix of the music and then traveled to L.A. to do a final film mix with Demme. It was like making a mini feature, and it cost about $200,000.

shagatha crustie

Ricky Fataar - 'Stig O'Hara' from the Rutles - plays the absolutely scorching drums on Dennis Wilson's 'River Song.'

Ant Farm Keyboard

Along with Blondie Chaplin, he was a member of The Beach Boys for two albums, Carl & The Passions – So Tough and Holland. They were recruited by Carl Wilson to replace a departing Bruce Johnston and also appear on the 1973 or 1974 live album (without Brian) which is their best effort in that category. Fataar was much needed as Dennis had broken his wrist and couldn't drum for a year or so (and was already erratic without that).
A few months later, a compilation of their 60s hits made them popular again, and they went back to the formula by going retro and showcasing Brian again. Fataar and Chaplin didn't fit in the picture.

Some tracks from Pacific Ocean Blue also feature James Jamerson on bass, years after he had left Detroit and Motown. And Dennis was an uncredited writer to Billy Preston's "You Are So Beautiful".

lazyhour

I saw Brian Wilson playing at a festival a few years ago with Al Jardine and (iirc) Al's son. Blondie Chaplin came out as a surprise guest for a couple of songs which was really fun, but it was hilarious the extent to which he behaved like we were all there to see and worship him. I'm sure most of the crowd had absolutely no idea who he was.

Johnboy

Saw Blondie Chaplin playing with Brian Wilson in Dublin in 2017,

All I was thinking during the gig was who the hell does this guy think he is (who I'd never heard of)

Quote from: Glyn on January 16, 2022, 06:11:00 PMOn the theme of the theme from MASH, James Dean Bradfield mangled the lyrics in the Manic's cover version singing "the losing card of some delay" instead of "the losing card I'll someday lay".

Considering daytime radio hasn't heard the swearword in Motorcycle Emptiness yet it's easy to see why no-one noticed.
What swearing?

SpiderChrist


amateur

Quote from: SpiderChrist on January 22, 2022, 09:56:27 PMIsn't there a "shit" in there somewhere?

"This happiness corrupt political shit".

It's rendered as "shay-ee-at" though, so unless you're looking for it you probably won't hear it.

Good song imo.

lazyhour

#1434
"Your joys are counterfeit
This happiness corrupt political shit"

But to be fair he pronounces it "she-yay-eed" or something.

Edit: haha, basically *exactly* the same post as the one above. Fuck it, I'm posting it anyway.

Glyn

Quote from: lazyhour on January 22, 2022, 10:18:22 PM"Your joys are counterfeit
This happiness corrupt political shit"

But to be fair he pronounces it "she-yay-eed" or something.

Edit: haha, basically *email* the same post as the one above. Fuck it, I'm posting it anyway.

'this happiness, corrupt, political shed' is spot on.

Have often wondered if it's the only song to have an official radio edit that doesn't remove a swear word but am sure there a few more buried away.

kalowski


JesusAndYourBush

Whenever Hey Jude is on the radio I always listen out for the "fuckin' 'ell".

famethrowa

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on January 23, 2022, 01:20:09 AMWhenever Hey Jude is on the radio I always listen out for the "fuckin' 'ell".

Me too, and even better, I have played in many Beatles tribute shows and make it my business to say it in the right spot.

But I was telling some fellow musicians about it, and the thought I was joking! It's right there, plain as day!

Sonny_Jim

Bit of an obscure one, but I remember hearing this proto-gabba track on mixtapes back in the day:


Turns out it's a diss track made by a bunch of Rotterdammers taking the piss out of 'soft' Amsterdammers.  They deliberately turned up all the distortion and BPM only to 'invent' gabba.

copied from a comment on Discogs

QuoteThe direct cause for this release was the ongoing rivalry between Amsterdam and Rotterdam, and how the media even blew this up beyond proportion. So the producers decided to disguise themselves as countryside farmers, unaware of anything about urban life.
Artist name Harm Reefboer: "boer" is Dutch for "farmer", "reef" is Dutch phonetic spelling for "rave", and Harm was a popular first name on the countryside (there even was a song named "Boer Harms", about a farmer who loved disco).
Artist name Teun Hooihouse: I guess "house" is obvious, "hooi" is Dutch for "hay" and Teun was another popular first name on the countryside.
Studio de Reefschuur: "schuur" is Dutch for "shed".

The title "Alles Naar De Kl--te" is actually a censored version of "Alles Naar De Klote", which roughly means something like "(destroy) everything to utter mess".

The Rotterdam mix starts with sounds of a horse carriage ("Hu peerd" is Dutch slang to put a horse to a standstill).
"Rotterdam? Amsterdam? Ik weet allebei nie waar da lech, of da-da bestaat..." this dialogue is about being unaware of any big cities in our country.
Dimitri is questioned; this is supposed to be popular Amsterdam house DJ Dimitri Kneppers. He is offered a little house record, surely of his liking, maybe he would like to remix it. After Dimitri is requested to listen closely, the mayhem starts.
"Mien, haal de koeien van stal" is a typical Dutch line heard on the countryside and means "Mien, get those cows out of the stable!". The line is followed by cow sounds done by humans.
"Wij doen niet mee aan de moduh" means "We do not follow the fashion" and is not only a statement of not following what goes on regarding house music in Amsterdam, but also a pun towards Amsterdam as our country's fashion capital.
At the end of the track, we hear "Wat denk je? Zal Robin hem draaien?". This means "what do you think, will Robin play it?". This refers to Robin Albers and his then popular radio show "For Those Who Like To Groove" which also used to contain rave but was drifting towards more melodic house and club.